Sixth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum
27 -30 September 2011
United Nations Office in Naiorbi, Nairobi, Kenya

September 29, 2011 - 09:00 AM

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The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the Sixth Meeting of the IGF, in Nairobi, Kenya. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

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>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Welcome, everybody, to this workshop, Understanding IPv6 Deployment and Transition.  We are going to start.  We have one of our panelists who's running a little bit late, but we'll start and hopefully she will join us. 

So this workshop is meant to address one of the burning issue of the Internet right now, which is IPv6 deployment and transition.  What we will try to do today is to see the transition and the deployment through different lenses.  We are going to hear report from government, from operators, from AIR, and also research centre on the steps of IPv6 deployment, the challenges of the transition, and more importantly, the capacity building of training, education and capacity building.  Important for this transition period. 

With me today I have Maarten Boterman, who is from GNK consulting, who will talk about the ‑‑ their survey on the IPv6 deployment, 2011.  We have Marco Hogewoning, from RIPE NCC.  Will talk about the impact of IPv6 capacity building on deployment.  We have Kurtis Lindqvist, he's also an IPv6 trainer, and he will talk about the impact of training in his region as well.  And impact of ‑‑ we have John Gitau, from ‑‑ he will be speaking on IPv6 deployment.  He is in Kenya. 

Constanze Bürger, from the German Federal Ministry of the Interior, she will be speaking from activities from German government in taking the lead on IPv6 deployment. 

We will also hear from Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro, from Telecom Fiji.  Also from ‑‑ Suleman M. Bakhsh, Telecommunications Regulatory Authority.  And last we will have a remote presenter, Sezen Yesil from the Communication Authority of Turkey. 

So without wasting more time, I will give the floor to the presenter.  And if you can quickly start by talking about yourself, your organisation, and you have five minutes for each presenter. 

After the presentation we will take questions from the audience and to have some debate about the different issue related to IPv6 deployment.  So Maarten, you have the floor. 

>> MAARTEN BOTERMAN:  Thank you very much.  Pleasure to be here.  What I'm going to present to you is the results of the global IPv6 deployment ‑‑ survey.  This came to me with the support of the European commission a couple of years ago and has been carried out since 2009 consistently around the world.  It's designed after an even earlier survey that had taken place in Ireland, and it's been improved, and the last question has always been do you think it makes sense to have the survey again next year.  And so far our answer has been yes. 

Hence this year reply again and give us your results. 

Next slide, please. 

Please fill the entire screen. 

This is the font ‑‑ somebody to help and ‑‑ I don't want to waste your time on slow slides. 

Next slide, please. 

Okay.  And next slide, please. 

And the next slide, please. 

I just present a couple of answers to questions.  The entire results of the survey will be available after very shortly.  This is really a focus of the development part.  And just to frame that, I have also showed you how the progress of IPv6 within the organisation, specifically to the survey has been.  Please note there's more than 6 million people around the world responded.  And this is about the same as last year.  And also a profile of the people responded, based upon the same as last year.  You will find the details on that in the ‑‑ in the presentation that will be available online. 

Obviously in terms of IPv6 allocation assignment, it really has grown since last year. 

Next slide, please. 

And also the percentage of customers that use IPv6 connectivity, 60 percent have no such user connectivity last year.  It's now 40 percent.  So you do see that more people are ‑‑ use IPv6 even if you're involved in the ‑‑ absolute usage of version 6 ‑‑ 3 percent, maybe. 

But that's in that order of magnitude.  Yeah. 

So in terms of the human capacity needs, we see is basically the answers to the questions, why wouldn't you do IPv6? 

And there we see from the questions what people would do with IPv6, overall we see the blue bar that's today.  That's people feel less so ‑‑ less ‑‑ about IPv6.  Also remarked that this year was only 7 percent of the organizations who were still not considering IPv6.  Versus last year it was more than double of that. 

So we see it's less organizations are saying we don't consider it.  From those who say we don't consider it, we see that the reasons not to consider it have come less frequent.  And in particular availability of staff, we also see a clear decline and that's being seen as a reason. 

So some progress has been made there. 

When deploying IP version 6, the hurdles become less high with all encryption information security.  But also there ‑‑ there's a feel that evolution staff is more available.  And ‑‑ the biggest problems in practice are ‑‑ I think you will see that people really start using it, and maybe they've been answering this question after they tried to participate in IPv6, the technical problems have been experienced.  I don't think that ‑‑ it needs really an engagement.  Experience has clearly gone up.  And ‑‑ yeah.  But still remains an issue is like how do I convince my bosses who understand less the impact potential of ‑‑

So for now I really would like to ‑‑ to keep this ‑‑ this focus presentation as I said, full results will be available within a week, I think.  To all.  And thanks everybody for participating.  Next year we'll do it again because 94 percent ‑‑ pleased to see that.  Thank you. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Thank you very much, Maarten.  We'll now give the floor to Marco. 

>> MARCO HOGEWONING:  Thank you.  I work for RIPE as a trainer.  I am also a part of the RIPE working group. 

Next slide.  Thank you. 

This is just a noncomplete view of some of the efforts that have been ‑‑ as far as education goes, we focus on two main points.  One is explains people what's headed our way.  The ‑‑ people need to switch to IP version 6.  And the next thing is how to deploy version 6.  Of course websites for IPv6.  We participate in ‑‑ throughout our region.  We also take part in organising larger global events such as ‑‑ and we have dedicated training courses both in ‑‑ later what we call the IPv6 road shows which we organise together with local communities, such as the Middle East, and Eurasia network. 

Thank you. 

But what I found ‑‑ and that's the often misconception.  If you take part in these conference is that conversion to IPv6 is not a technical problem.  Lots of people still see it as completely 100 percent technical issue.  People have to change the network.  But I think Maarten's figures also show in large part why are you not deploying IPv6, comes down to we don't have more customer.  It's more about betting people into the correct mind set to deploy IPv6.  Your product managers that IPv6 is a part of your business now.  As it is changing to technical things.  What we found often in the training courses we've kept technical people there, and they actually know what they're doing.  They already have experience with IPv6.  They have been testing in the environment with small scale labs.  But after having them back in their real prediction network, it's fair, fair for them now.  There's an overwhelming amount of information headed towards people.  And these days there are so many technical solutions to choose from.  People get overwhelmed and it's perfectly natural reaction to stand still and maybe take a look at the situation. 

So what we do these days in our training courses is primarily focussing on showing how it can be done.  We spent less time explaining what IPv6 is or why people should move to IPv6.  Because by the time they subscribe or they join up in one of our training courses, usually they are very ‑‑ they are ready to switch to IPv6.  So what we primarily do is showcase and look for examples of what other people have done.  Show that to people. 

And that usually sort of ‑‑ if I can get my next slide... we actually did some investigation, we did some research.  Not only distribute IPv resources, we kept track of statistics.  In this graph there are two lines.  The red line over time shows the amount of networks in specific country.  In this case Herzegovina that actually have deployed IPv6.  The green line in that sense shows the percentage of rite members that actually have requested or are holding IPv6 resources.  And what you usually see is that the green line will be ahead of the red line because to deploy IPv6 you will have ‑‑ what we did here is we built ‑‑ we indicated what we think are important events when it comes to the ‑‑ in this case IPv6 ‑‑ can I get ‑‑ it's in this case world IPv6. 

We're still looking for what we first jump ‑‑ another course which we have not entered into the system.  But we do see an immediate effect of our training courses.  In both the amount of members that request IPv6 courses and actually networks that are deploying IPv6.  And this is not the single case. 

Next slide.  We saw the same effect in Armenia.  And more interesting, as long as people say oh, yeah, but I can't deploy IPv6 because my equipment is not ready and I have to deploy ‑‑ what's actually hiding in this graph is the fact that we're not talking about months, only weeks up to days or weeks after training courses we see networks that enable IPv6 that are actually using IPv6, to me that's an indication it's a nontechnical problem.  Because if those networks would have gone to the procedure of installing new equipment, you're looking at a procedure that takes months and not weeks. 

So this again is an indication, it's not only a technical problem.  Once we help people in our course for a day ‑‑ we've shown some examples ‑‑ they get home and enable IPv6 within a few days. 

If I can go to my last slide.  This is another interesting case for Georgia where you see that immediately after IPv6 course we will start thinking about it and start requesting IPv6.  And we can actually see somebody here or maybe a few networks that took part in IPv6.  We see them enables IPv6.  It's on there. 

Unfortunately it's gone again.  I don't know run into problems or switch it off.  Not sure if anybody from Georgia who is listening can ‑‑ will be welcome. 

But again you see there that by just doing this kind of stuff we ‑‑ we immediately get people to react to this.  And so as the case, our best efforts work, I think it will.  And that's it for now. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Thank you, Marco, for an interesting finding of the link between IPv6 training and IPv courses. 

Now we'll listen to Kurtis. 

>> KURTIS LINDQVIST:  Thank you.  My name is Kurtis Lindqvist.  I work for Netnod.  And we run the servers and other DNS services. 

I have ‑‑ I also have been quite a way in IGF, for the standard for the Internet, we have shared IPv6 tenders.  And I also have the pleasure to do some trainings around the world.  At least in the Middle East, and also to get a ‑‑ I think it's important there's a few things that Marco said.  A few interesting points is that there is no reason ‑‑ IPv6 doesn't make the network any more interesting, any more interesting than it was before.

The transcript is still text owned and data pictures.  IPv6 is just a way to avoid the fact that a technical shortcomings of the current system.  We get more addresses. 

And there is no ‑‑ there is no additional revenue deployed IPv6 in the short term.  Resolution of revenue ‑‑ the long term that might enable the services and might promise us future gains.  But in a very short term there is nothing. 

And I think that you can see this very clearly.  One last thing I think is that ‑‑ in the office the IPv6 adoption rate is the lowest in the ‑‑ most address and most saturated markets because all the user hes who join the network already have an address.  Which if you look at Europe, which is also fairly stat rated, IPv6 adoption rate. 

In the long run deploying IPv6 for more than ‑‑ the cost of maintaining the current system will go up and try to keep the current ‑‑ will not work.  But in the short term you have very ‑‑ you can have ‑‑ mostly in terms of staff training and so on and so forth, representations. 

What strikes me with the duty training with some of the networks involved that most of them actually get quite disciplined.  Because IPv6 is actually not that special.  It's not very hard.  Very similar to what we do today.  And again, there wasn't anything cool and new they had to learn.  And I guess that's a good thing because most of the people have been scared of deploying because they think it's a very complex problem.  There's lots of things to be done. 

I like something Marco said.  It's not just a technical problem.  That's true.  But there are technical problems in IPv6 that we don't quite know how to deal with yet.  We're still working on. 

It's not crystal clear how to deploy this to the end users.  There are several methods of doing this.  And I think the technical community have to blame ourselves a little bit because we clearly overlooked ‑‑ it's a hard problem.  Hard problems take time to solve.  But if we make much more clear how to deploy this. 

The other thing is that there's no market demand for IPv6.  And to bring this in the IGF context, I think that what's interesting to do is that governments can't deploy IPv6 by decree but by being customers.  Governments tend to be very big procurements and demanding IPv6; and deploying IPv6 is actually very important. 

I always find is somewhat humorous that the European Union can ‑‑ can't manage to deploy IPv6 itself.  If it took so many Euros, within their own network, it would be clear.  And should follow the example. 

I do think there's a lot of work that can be done by public interest and by the government in this field, by being a good procurement and doing ‑‑ demanding procurements.  And that's also something we've seen in some of the ‑‑ the networks is that mainly deploy this by having a clear customer base; but governments again tend to look around and say, we want to be a global leader, we want to be leading in this, and we want to be at the forefront of technology.  But they tend to be less to adopt it themselves. 

And I think if you want to be true, that's something that might have to change. 

Thank you. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Thank you very much, Kurt.  And to let us have this view from the technical aspect and also pointing out some of the issue related to the deployment and the end user.  But what we can take from that is that IPv6 is something very complicated, different from what we do today in term of network running. 

Thank you.  We'll move now to the next speaker, which is John, John Gitau. 

>> JOHN GITAU:  Thanks.  My name is John, John Gitau.  One of the operators in Kenya.  I also happen to have been working for quite a while now with IPv6 from a technical perspective. 

So the key question at least for people I talk to tends to be how did you get started, how do you actually get this thing deployed.  And you have to understand what is a mobile network.  So we have a lot of GSOs.  And we also have customs.  So general Broadband. 

I would have to say lucky for us, really, it was not an issue of point it ‑‑ we didn't have to go out and convince anyone that we need to ‑‑ to deploy IPv6.  We had a lot of freedom to do this.  So all we did was talk to our manager and tell them we need a small test lab and deploy IPv6. 

We also had needs to create and develop a huge source within the company.  So that we not end up ‑‑ okay.  What tends to happen is guys ‑‑ the moment some people land in technology, others would leave, others would come in.  So the idea was to be sure that others will continue to run the network.  So all our tenders about the last three years, it was a requirement that any kids coming in have support of IPv6.  Our goal was ‑‑ in IPv6.  And I think earlier this year I spoke at in Tanzania.  And ‑‑ IPv6 development, which is correctly in the test. 

We also needed to come up with ways of helping our enterprise business go to market in the future.  And many customs as they possibly could.  So in terms of deployment, and the numbers we are looking at covering, we just took account of all the total ‑‑ that were ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ that are ‑‑ that counts around 10 million to customers.  If we look ‑‑ if we project that growth for the next five to seven years, we are looking at quite a huge number.  And from this it was fairly easy to actually go and say we need IPv6 in the future. 

All right? 

So yeah, really for us we are driving it from the ground up, from the technical guys.  So far we'll say we have fair success.  When you look at towards what everybody else is trying to ‑‑ within the region, we get a bit worried that we might ‑‑ we don't have a special way of one company does IPv6, and nobody else is ‑‑ one of the key things we're also looking at is how we can work with the community at large to be sure that as we ‑‑ we embark on this journey everybody else is walking in ‑‑ we'll all in sync.  Yeah. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Thank you very much, John.  And thank ‑‑ we'll probably hear from you in the question period.  Some practical aspect of deployment, especially taking this from mobile printer perspective.  Thank you very much. 

The next speaker is Constanze, from the German Federal Ministry of the Interior.  She will be talking about strategy at high level government to deploy or create ‑‑ Constanze? 

>> CONSTANZE BÜRGER:  Thank you for the introducing myself and the opportunity to speak.  And let's save me some words about the situation in Germany.  The first thing I want to remark, thank you, Marco and Kurt, for your words.  I just agree with you.  The situation in Germany is in the way you told us. 

And I prepared some slides because there's a possibility to download them, and you can find more information than I can bring over now.  So let's start. 

Some of people know my base and knowing me, what is our base in Germany? 

We had a consensus with the decision was to apply for a ‑‑ address basin and all labs.  This was a very new situation.  And we became a year dot ‑‑ De.gov.  Got an assignment of 26 address base.  And we can be very proud of them for the whole public administration.  And the new thing is we got decisions.  We got decision about the organisation and the address space ‑‑ part in March 2011 ‑‑ about how to organise the address base and how ‑‑ and who's responsible for this space. 

What did we do? 

The Federal Ministry of the Interior, it's my part ‑‑ I have the honour to coordinate that address base.  But the users and ‑‑ are responsible for the using their own addresses.  So we took over the coordination and we set up an IPv6 working group in the kind of RIPE working.  It's a very good instance for us to learn from RIPE and from RIPE NCC.  So we copied the system of RIPE.  So we ‑‑ we bundled from all users levels and worked out address for management and for technical implementation.  So I don't have to work anymore, I simply am coding.  And those users are going to find out their solutions themselves. 

We have that decisions.  And we have responsibilities.  That's necessary to find out who's responsible for something. 

We coordinate this and we are near.  And we set up some ‑‑ you see it on the slide.  And it can be ‑‑ these can be data centres, states, public network providers, municipalities.  And they are all responsible for their own address base. 

This is a decision about our address concept.  We split it up the 26, in 64/32 blocks.  And the aim is we want to help well‑structured networks.  And these networks should be transferred. 

What did we do? 

We know we have to learn.  You see, the first RIPE NCC training course.  And it was a very good success in that we learned a lot of things.  You see the RIPE database came up.  It's a training test.  John set it up.  It was very new for me as well.  And we learned a lot in that course.  And we are order at RIPE a lot more courses.  Because we have a lot of people, they want to learn. 

What else we doing is we teaching each other.  We took all our experiences that we had and put it in a reference handbook.  And you can find their address concept organisation, processes, technical recommendations, security, policies, checklist and so on.  It's an open book, and we are going to write it for ‑‑ other people from Finland asked me to send over the reference book, and it's just available in German.  But I can offer it to you as ‑‑ as a copy for your own things. 

Then next step is we telling about our needs.  This is a big problem, because we remarked in our projects that when the industry is not really IPv6 enabled ‑‑ not in that case we need it.  That's our experience.  So we have to specify our demands, public administration, with an aspect of IPv6. 

We discuss the technical policies with the community considering the special needs of public infrastructures.  And we explain the governments to manufacturers, so they can anticipate future developments.  And we are in contact with the EU Commission.  It's a lot of thing, but we have to do them.  But one example is the IPv6 ‑‑ we have cryptoproduct, and these cryptoproducts should be IPv6 enabled.  But the discussion with the industry is going on for the third year. 

And we don't have the right product that we need.  So that's a really big problem.  It's not small one, it's really big one. 

Practical things are not in that way we need it. 

This is a very good project.  I wanted to inform.  We set up a research and development project for German public administration.  And this is in ‑‑ based on the profile from MIDFT, and based on the document 601 from Jon George, and he was a father of the idea.  And so we went on to specify our needs for Germany and want to offer it for the EU Commission to abstract the needs.  So that all public ‑‑ that all member states can share that specification. 

Details from the project are on the next slide.  You can see it and download and read and contact me or Fran Hoffer.  That's the firm and the ‑‑ the people are making that project.  So last information, we had an application for a pilot from the EU Commission, so we can learn crossover and cross border with other member states how IPv6 is working. 

So we set up an application.  I think the decision was coming up in ‑‑ in the last quarter of 2011. 

And we have ‑‑ we have a lot of nice projects that we combined with so we can learn a lot of things. 

Also the members of the projects are listed here.  Germany is in the transition of data centre services for the public administration.  And so we tried to do ‑‑ to get on with the project. 

Yeah, that's the point of view from Germany.  But the last words I can make to you, Germany offers an open mind, and we are there for ‑‑ to share experiments and we are open to discuss.  And I think it's necessary to talk about our needs and our future things.  And so we are there to ‑‑ to discuss with you.  Thank you. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Thank you very much, Constanze.  Very interesting to see how from government perspective this has take up and become a full project for the whole government transition. 

We'll now move to our next speaker, Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro. 

Do we have ‑‑ yeah.  Okay.  From the Fiji Telecommunication.  And she will be speaking ‑‑

>> SALANIETA TAMANIKAIWAIMARO:  Good morning, everyone.  I hope everyone ‑‑ it's a privilege to be here this morning to share a little bit with you.  First of all, I'd like to put a caveat.  I'm not a technical person.  My professional background is as a lawyer.  And I'm an in‑house counsel for an operator back in Fiji. 

Now, we all know that the Internet is a catalyst for development and empowerment.  We hear from workshops how the Internet is being harnessed to encourage local content and help community, encourage economic growth, development.  And we are actually on the crossroads where operators in ISPs have to make a call in calling for the transition. 

We heard the call in the opening plenary where Vincent said for the world to turn on IPv6 by January 2013 and leave it on. 

We are now in 2011.  What steps should we take to prepare the world for transition? 

In the Pacific, the Pacific Island Communication, together with the Pacific operators network group, and IPIC of course have done heaps of training to be sure that ISP engineers are prepared to ensure this transition to IPv6.  I would agree with all the speakers before me that have said the issue goes beyond the technical component.  We have to address the fear.  And this is actually something that was discussed and raised at the AP 32 meeting where people were sort of asking.  Here we have had a focus on IPv6.  We know we need to have it on.  But what's stopping us from transitioning? 

And so as an in‑house counsel in a local operator, where we also own an ISP, some of the considerations that we have had to make is this.  And I personally believe that if you were to address fear, you address it with information.  Because when you inform them and they are fully informed, we have better abled and empowered to make decisions.  And I'd actually like to thank IPIC for being available and encouraging capacity development in the ‑‑ in that area. 

What was said from the technical of course. 

From my perspective in terms of focussing within an operator, persuading the different departments that we need to transition to IPv6, I've noticed that we have to take on the multistakeholder approach. 

For instance, quite aside from just the ISPs or engineers being equipped and empowered to be able to transition the thing, the reality is that someone else who makes the call.  And you have people in products and procurement.  And you've got to make them understand that this actually affects your long‑term plans.  How you procure equipment.  What you think is going to help.  Your negotiations with venders.  Is it ISP enabled? 

How can you be sure that you're not taken for a ride by venders? 

And I actually salute NCC for the matrix that they have on their website where they have the comparison.  And that's pretty handsome.  I would like to see venders from Asia also included in the matrix.  Because the reality is if you want to persuade an operator that ISP, you have to tell them ‑‑ you have to link it to the bottom line. 

How is it going to save costs? 

For most of the operators in ISPs in Asia and the Pacific, a lot of them have migrated to NGN.  So it's something like the IPv6.  You've got to sell it to them in a way where you assure them this affects the bottom line.  And here we're in the IGF 11 in Nairobi, Kenya, where we know the Internet is a capitalist for development.  And if we don't transition, we're in trouble. 

So things like ‑‑ simple things like talking to the nontechnical people about matrixes and methodologies, policies, and also learning from Europe and how certain governments and certain countries have actually used the procurement policies to encourage operators to transition to IPv6. 

And I for one would like to say that it should not be regulated, but it should be encouraged. 

Things like, you know ‑‑ and also empowering governments, for example.  It's one thing for big government ITC or the telecommunications sector to know about IPv6, but what about, for example, see the techs department or those who actually ‑‑ of, you know, customs and that sort of thing? 

What are incentives? 

I heard from a friend who tried to bring a ‑‑ to Kenya, that they were stopped by customs even though the Minister of Communications had actually supported the initiative.  So things like that.

How do you get different government departments to talk to each other? 

So there's a certain level of cohesion that is needed for outreach in terms of the Pacific. 

And also persuading the operators and ISPs that this impacts the service level agreements.  It impacts the apps, your applications. 

What happens if certain apps on your phones or on the Internet doesn't work?  You know? 

And so in short, what I would like to encourage the NROs ‑‑ and I'd like to commend all of them for the great work that they're doing in terms of the focussing and outreach ‑‑ I would like to see a lot more cohesion and a lot more ‑‑ I suppose a lot more energy being put into the policy meetings. 

Because at the end of the day I think it's the policy makers who can drive and encourage a stimulus.  And I know this is already happening.  I know there are actually some testing done in the Asia Pacific region.  They have been doing it in terms of talking to nontechnical people.  But it will be really awesome to see a lot more partnership across the islands.  And we'd like to thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN: Thank you very much for this approach and this view of IPv6 through developing countries.  Especially in Pacific region. 

Our next speaker will be Suleman Bakhsh.

>> SULEMAN M. BAKHSH:  Thank you.  I work for the Telecommunication Authority of United Arab Emirates. 

In terms of IPv6 deployment, first of all, I think we have somehow a consensus that IPv6 is ‑‑ and with having facts on the table that IPv4 ‑‑ was already.  So it's just very near ‑‑ it's very near to the ‑‑ on the ‑‑ United Emirates was one of the those that has seen that we need to take an action for it.  In 2001 the IPv6 was established and we held the first IPv6 summit in 2001.  And we had another summit in 2005. 

And the first ‑‑ I believe on a smaller scale for IPv6 testing was done in one of the entities in 2007 for ‑‑ I would be interested in what authority.  And in 2009 the league had a meeting and discussions on the IPv6 transition and what we should be doing.  I mean, these were some kind of inputs to the plan that we were supposed to take from 2001 to 2011, you know, the issues that have been told.  And maybe not many case studies of full scale deployment have been seen because of issues of what is the business case, what is the kind of application.  From a UA perspective we don't see that.  But the business community is key, is very important. 

Besides that, to harness future opportunities that IPv6 would be providing.  These are the business case for UA IPv6, I believe. 

We ‑‑ we had also very close interaction with IPv6 working group in ITU.  We had from the telecommunication authority was chairing an IPv6 working group.  And we had a lot of discussions over there.  And one of the discussions that talks about capacity buildings. 

So from a government perspective this was a very good venue to exchange and see and share information on deployments, on plans, on frameworks. 

Moving further, the UH had participated in the v6 ‑‑ which was held in 8th of June I guess last year.  Or was it this year already? 

Through our ‑‑ we have joined it through a ‑‑ demonstration to show the world that ‑‑ website can be accessed by IPv6, that's more like one third ‑‑ one step to IPv6 deployment. 

Then there is actually a need to have a plan and strategy.  The operators do have a plan on paper, but to collectively gather all these efforts in one strategy, that was the aim. 

Up to this moment there is no like documented IPv6 strategy on a national level.  Although there are some initiatives on the smaller scales.  There are some considerations and plans in Germany with the operators and some of the government entities. 

So what we have in plan basically here, that hopefully somewhere by next month or November that we will be commencing the IPv6 strategy project for UA.  By mid of 2012 we'll be seeing some kind of outcomes of that strategy.  Strategy that definitely talks about getting a buy‑in from key stakeholders including the operators, focussing on training and training and training. 

And since we're talking about capacity building, really thank RIPE and ‑‑ for their great efforts in providing the ‑‑ the capacity building programmes, customized for operators, for conference.  And reaching out to these ‑‑ to the government, I would say. 

We had an IPv6 ‑‑ IPv6 roadshow in July.  And it was their first one this year, to be honest.  And we ‑‑ we actually assist the kind of demand that we had for more trainings, to be honest.  So we are working closely with the RIPE agency to have more trainings somewhere by next year and have them on schedule, to be honest.  It's true. 

There is a huge need for trainings.  You need people who knows how to deploy, how to test.  And it goes ‑‑ it goes in line with our IPv6 strategy to have the trainings.  And enable these governments, entities ‑‑ of course even the venders or the business sector to be able to test and move forward ‑‑ and move forward. 

So basically the outcome would be a full‑fledged strategy.  I don't have any kind of slides at the moment to share.  But I see that we are on the right track and one of the ‑‑ I would say the ‑‑ the things that I would recommend everyone here in the room who may have not had the plan yet, or the governments to ‑‑ to collaborate, attend such venues as IGF, talk to their RIFs directly.  It's where you get information, it's where you get ‑‑ let's say you will take that bold step and say I'm going to have a strategy and I'm going to have an IPv6 in my country.  So that's from a UA perspective. 

And thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much.  Nice strategy from UA.  We'll move to the next speaker, which is Sezen Yesil, from remote participation. 

Can we have that on? 

Okay.  So ‑‑ there is a technical ‑‑ to get her on.  But in the meantime so we can start discussing the presentation that we had, to briefly summarize in one minute, key point from the presentation that we have ‑‑ we had this morning.  I think there is one thing that's come up from the survey is that the situation of IPv6 deployment has improved from last year to this year.  Some of the issue preventing the deployment are still there, and will certainly go away when the deployment will ‑‑ will take up. 

We have also seen the importance of training on IPv6 deployment from RIPE statistic.  We have seen how training classes have directly impacted the IPv6 for LAR, and also WISIS.  We have also seen that IPv6 deployment is not something new of technology, networking technology.  It is a ‑‑ that comes on top of IPv4.  There are some technical issue related to the deployment which will be solved as we deploy them.  And end‑user aspect of IPv6 deployment also has been raised. 

We have also heard about the situation of mobile operator, how ‑‑ what entities for government to take the lead, by creating the project to deploy IPv6 in government infrastructure, giving the example for the ‑‑ for the others. 

We have also heard from developing country the importance of training.  But not only technical training, but also training to policy makers and interstakeholders around IPv6. 

And also the importance of having global strategy and following what is going on globally. 

So while we are waiting ‑‑ still waiting, I will open the floor for question, clarification of this matter. 

So I will go this way. 

>> Thank you.  Iken ‑‑ Professor Iken.  I'd like it share some information for all of you, that is a very positive what I see from the IPv6 deployments. 

My institution, actually, we are monitoring the IPv6 deployment since last year 'til now.  We monitoring actually originals every month.  But now we start monitoring every two weeks.  On a number issue ‑‑ I don't need ‑‑ I think I don't need to go to the authority, because it's too low and too technical stuff.  In general what we saw is we see the IPv6 website available, you know, from the ‑‑ database.  And number actually growing from the earlier ‑‑ January 1st of this year from 1,083 and ‑‑ 83 to now, about the last data I have is September 3rd.  There is a 9,765.  What's that mean? 

There is 518 percent growth in last nine months, in last nine months. 

And we also look ways to know the website ‑‑ what's interesting is most of the UK and Europe ‑‑ since ‑‑ do a very good job. 

It is about ‑‑ as you occupy around 83 percent of the website.  And the next number actually is outreach.  Outreach is about 8.7 to 9 percent.  You know, so I think this is the first ‑‑ a positive number we can see.  The basis of deployment is ongoing.  And the list is growing quite rapidly compared with us.  Actually last year we seem very slow.  But last year after the six ‑‑ it's upward. 

The second point I'd like to say is actually from my point of view, I think it's not transition, actually, it's the ‑‑ IPv6, we coexist. 

Will continue to grow the services, but we definitely need the v6.  So we definitely need to move to the v6.  That's the second point. 

The last point is I think all of us should understand that v6 is definitely we need a more business incentive for the ISP, for the commercial guy, you know, interesting to put that advancement.  But I think at the same time we still have some ‑‑ for example, the securities thing, we need to take care of it.  But from my point of view this is on the right train and this is still growing.  So you know, that ‑‑ let's try to be a little bit patient, you know. 

If you remember back to the 1970, and 1980, how long we take for in the ‑‑ single space.  Actually it's a fragment in the very early day of IPv4. 

So I think don't ‑‑ we should be continuing the positive, you know, mode instead of a negative mode. 

Question about it, I think that is my ‑‑ my comment.  Thank you. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much. 

Next question I think is here.  And then...

>> ROB GIDEON:  Thank you very much.  My name is Rob Gideon, from Africa.  And welcome to Kenya. 

Thank you for the interesting discussion that is happening about IPv6. 

I believe right now most of it is too many people still ‑‑ still the excitement, since people are talking about IPv6 and not yet going to implementation.  I know that, for example, in Africa we still have quite a huge group of IPv4.  And because of that I ‑‑ this is a question I don't know if to call it an advantage or disadvantage. 

Because when one side we give Africa or other nations the time to prepare, perhaps to do IPv4 and IPv6 parallel.  And I don't know if to call it disadvantage, because other people, other nations, perhaps, would have gone for it, people like Germany who already doing it in the government.  They will ‑‑ you know, governments most of the time slow in taking up technologies.  Especially in Africa.  It is no money most of the time pushed by the private organizations. 

So how do we encourage governments to pick up and be at the forefront so that ‑‑ nobody wants to take a risk, especially to do with business and something that is new, like IPv6.  So how do we encourage governments to start ‑‑ and perhaps for that case, like friend ASA, but some organisation wanted to develop here in Kenya.  But they are hindered by the customs. 

To tell the customs actually how do we help to tell the customs and the organizations in the government that it's ‑‑ it's not something risky, it's not something that would perhaps take revenue from the government; but help to implement the future. 

And perhaps because of that it would be good to say that it's better to involve everybody, not only the technical.  Because on the onset IPv6 has remained to be a technical talent, remained on the technical rim.  Everybody who is talking about it has been involved in it as a technical person.  And how do you involve every other people like the business, institutions? 

In fact, institutions would be better place to be the ones aside to learn and to implement in the labs so that it's easy to deploy it to students, get it. 

Thank you very much. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much.  I know main question is how to encourage governments to be more involved in IPv6 and how to involve also the ‑‑ I will take a last question, and then I will come back to the panel so that we can refer to other question. 

>> Actually relaying back a remote question from Twitter.  The question reads:  What steps are being taken to advance the next IPv6 initiative from governments and technical society and especially the rest? 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  I will give to panel to talk about briefly the three portions.  First of all is do you agree that even though we are talking about the IPv6 uptake there are significant progress that's made, observed here and there? 

And that we are still at the very early day of IPv6 when you think about that? 

So a question how to create a dynamic IPv6 involving governments and stakeholders.  And that last IPv6 week this year. 

Start right here.  Who want to ‑‑ Constanze? 

>> CONSTANZE BÜRGER:  I can start to answer your question.  How to moderate government. 

So in Germany I can tell you about our past stakes.  We had two needs.  On the one hand side we had political side, and on the other side the technical need.  So let's start with the technical. 

It's a poor position.  We had to migrate to networks.  So there the decision not to take IPv6 had to be stupid. 

So this is a first reason we start with IPv6. 

The political thinkers, let's ‑‑ let me say in few simple words.  I talked to my state secretary, if we don't need IPv6 or we don't implement IPv6, we don't have any Internet in the future. 

So if we have to be online and to be connected with the world, we have to make IPv6. 

And this we tried to bring in some form and some facts.  And so we started our awareness to ‑‑ in the leaderships. 

This is one thing.  But the technical future is one thing in a political way, and on the other hand we have to push technology. 

So we have a lot of points I can offer to you.  And so we convinced our leadership. 

On the other hand, you told us Africa is not prepared yet.  I think governments, public administration is very slow in coming up with IPv6.  So I'm honest. 

We will drive for services, a lot of times.  So we need a lot of time.  Some communities or municipalities are very fast.  And other are very slow.  But we have to accept that. 

And we have to ‑‑ to accept that IPv4 and IPv6 are there a long time.  So we care about the advance theme.  And to anticipate all the problems coming up in security and technical infrastructure.  So that's the thing we have to talk about. 

But thank you for your very good question. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Maarten? 

>> MAARTEN BOTERMAN:  Important point.  How do you get it started with government, and what can government do to motivate the industry and pick it up? 

I would recommend you to look at the European Commission communication about IPv6.  Which I think is inspiring in a way that it recognizes that it will be inevitable in due time.  And very clearly at high level.  And ‑‑ and that you need to be ready for the future. 

The second reason that it's highlighted in the document is an opportunity for innovation, for new basic rules, et cetera. 

Now, if you look at the survey, what you see is that the main driver for organizations to start already implementing IPv6 today ‑‑ and that is about 30 percent of respondents say we will do it because we will be ahead of the game.  And it's another 20 percent that says, well, we want to make sure that our products are ready.  That's this kind of thing. 

So I think not only the scarcity but also the opportunity for innovation, in abundance, addresses, space.  It's a very dynamic take. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much, Maarten. 

Salanieta? 

>> SALANIETA TAMANIKAIWAIMARO:  I would like to comment on the remarks ‑‑ first comments from the floor.  In relation to 85 percent of the websites that already ‑‑ since the day from Europe and the comparison to ‑‑ in other jurisdictions. 

First of all I'd like to see that congratulations to Europe ‑‑ advancing and accelerating.  That's kudos.  But at the same time I think it's very critical, especially in a forum like this where you have everyone who has come together, to perhaps realise that every jurisdiction, every region is different.  We have different context, different challenges, different examples. 

A lot of the developing world are still dealing with high IP transit costs; and that's got a impact on retail, Internet prices, how the distance and that sort of thing.  Things like rolling out infrastructure.  And so because of that, how you prioritize your budget will be different from, say, country that's perhaps, you know, consistent in place and happier Internet penetration rates, for example. 

The other thing also, jurisdictions in developing world, also struggle with instances of heavy‑handed regulation which can impact one ‑‑ added innovations of capacity to invest into areas like, say, IPv6.  I use the word invest because it's not an expense; it's an investment. 

But again, I'd just like to very quickly come back to the point I made earlier:  To address the fear, you have to ensure that they're well informed.  And we can of course ‑‑ in jurisdictions like Europe. 

Thank you. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you.  I would like to open the floor for more question, but I would like to comment on one of the question about the fact that in Africa region we still have IPv4.  And that it is an advantage ‑‑ and advantage for us.  I think that is ‑‑ that is something that we have here not ‑‑ about a fact that in our region we still have IPv4. 

And should that make us just wait until we run out of IPv4 before starting? 

And it's a huge concern for us at AfriNIC.  And if you look at our training programme since 2005, start warning operators about the fact that they have to start planning instead of ‑‑ IPv6, why? 

Even though we have IPv4.  And if you listen to whatever we say, this is a global challenge, it's not only Africa.  Africa cannot hold on to IPv4 while other region deploy IPv6.  That will impact ‑‑ impacts of the cost of connectivity.  Because when everybody will have IPv6 as defaults protocol, we will have to have the cost of additional IPv4 ‑‑ see, we have to see it an economic reason for moving right now to IPv6. 

The other thing is that for ‑‑ to run an app. today, you cannot run on IPv6.  Only that you have to have a protocol on network, for what? 

You have to run the protocol for what? 

And the IPv4 we have already will help us to learn the smooth transition to IPv6.  But the most important thing is that we have to be ready.  We don't have to wait until we exhaust the IPv4. 

In addition to that, we have a version that has not a consumer version of IPv4 in the past.  If you look at what's happened the past 12 month, we have a look at the ‑‑ about 100 person more IPv4 in the past year than before. 

Why?  Because programmes developing in the region.  A lot of fiber connectivity is coming up.  The cost of connectivity is going down.  Even not as fast as we want it, but it's going down.  So people are connecting.  More than Internet is increasing the connectivity. 

So we are ‑‑ of IPv4.  And we'll be surprised to see ourself in few ‑‑ less year than we thought in the substitution as they are working. 

So it is an advantage; we are in the same boat.  We have to move all together to deploy IPv6.  And we have in Africa the possibility to do this in a very smooth way compared to ‑‑ compared to the other region. 

Okay.  So before we take questions ‑‑ yeah.  Okay.  I will ‑‑ happy, but we have our last speaker now online.  So we have to allow her to address us. 

It's Sezen Yesilfrom Turkey.  From ‑‑ Information and Communication Technology.  Sezen, if you can ‑‑

>> I'm sorry, I have to say to the people upstairs that they have to switch the image to see the remote participant.  We have the audio, but...

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Okay.  Okay.  Good. 

We still have a ‑‑ Sezen, can you hear? 

(No response)

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  We cannot hear you.  I don't know if your mic is... okay.  We cannot hear. 

(No response)

>> I think the PC is muted, that's why you don't get the voice. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Can we continue with the questions? 

So I'll take another round of questions.  So one, two, three, four.  Five.  Six. 

Okay? 

>> If you let me, I'll answer the remote participation question. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Okay. 

>> Hi, I'm from APV, and I work collaboratively with the NRO. 

The remote participant talked about IPv6 date.  And as an update I want to direct people to the materials available recently in Bosan, at the AP meeting.  The IPv6 transition plenary day allowed the key stakeholders involved in IPv6 to come together and to assess how effective World IPv6 Day was for all stakeholders.  So the moment the NRO and the AP focus the World IPv6 Days to listen to this feedback and to then develop a response in how we're going to support the next World IPv6 Day.  It is really interesting information.  So it's available through the APV.net website.  So I hope that helps the participant. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you.  And we move to the next  question. 

>> Thank you.  I just wanted to go back to the comment to get the government kind of buy‑in.  I think in the UE case it was ‑‑ I'll say better and easier since the idea actually came from the government, and I actually work for the government. 

But in the case that you have issues and you think there's no plans and ‑‑ let me ‑‑ I don't know what would be the reasons.  You need to get the efforts together.  You need to do your homework.  You need to present to your governments the option, to go or not to go.  What are the consequences? 

And sometimes if ‑‑ if this is not abroad, you need to get your venders, to get a coalition.  You want to call it that way? 

It's more like a group kind of thing within your country.  To look ‑‑ to go and address the shift in having a plan in a country. 

From that comment ‑‑ I mean, I'm really interested to know if there is anyone from the government, from the audience, and they don't have a plan? 

And to be very good speaker.  But see ‑‑ and see, I mean, why you think there is no plan? 

Is this ‑‑ is it because of communication kind of issue? 

Is the message not really addressed well to your leadership? 

Or is it are you lacking because of technicalities? 

Because if it's technicalities, you can get these methods from your people serving the region.  You can do your benchmarks.  There's many ways you can solve this, I believe.  More like start talking.  Just need to start talking. 

>> That's kind of my point. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much.  I'm sorry; I will give the floor to the panelist.  There is one comment I think from John, before I take the centre of questions. 

>> JOHN GITAU:  The thing I wanted to add is what you also don't have a lot of in Kenya and North Africa is content.  So looking at where this content is being generated and how it's being fed to the continent.  If those guides exist before us and they start generating content, then obviously you have to ‑‑ to be ready for discounting basics. 

Also the thought that if we are going to creating content for those guys, for those people who don't live here who have no ‑‑ then they need to be able to assess ‑‑ and especially trying to have two networks working in parallel can be quite ‑‑ it's not quite ‑‑ you think of the resources; each cell phone will have to ‑‑ to consume, just to be able to exist.  And if you have IPv6, if you try ‑‑ it will become very expensive.  So at one time you consider this to be. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  So thank you.  We have John, Pierre, and ‑‑

>> JOHN QUENTO:  My name is John Quento, from Kenya.  Africa has done a lot of technical training over the last five years including recently here in Nairobi, IPv6 infrastructure here. 

However, the up‑tick is still ‑‑ that brings the following question:  What is it that is still yet to be done? 

And I'm thinking probably apart from the technical training, we need to also think of the business policy and training so that they go hand in hand.  Because the technical group already know what to do.  They probably just don't have the green light from the business managers development. 

Another comment or suggestion would be that the universities need to change their curriculum so that as engineers graduate, they already have IPv6 in as their selection. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much, John. 

Pierre? 

>> PIERRE:  Thank you very much.  Pierre.  Just wanted to move the construction ‑‑ within the academy.  Let me ‑‑ research and education networks to normal. 

And additionally like also to know do you have any specific programme, you know, that address the IPv6 deployment within that community? 

Thanks. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you, Pierre. 

We have John, and then in the back. 

>> JOHN KERN:  President of ‑‑ I want to pick up on two comments that came earlier.  Regarding IPv6 addresses.  Two things to think about.  It's fairly important. 

One is the Internet is going to be IPv4 and IPv6.  And it's a global change.  Everyone has to participate.  So there's a sense of responsibility. 

And with respect to content in particular, it's crucial that new content on the Internet is put on via IPv4 and IPv6.  Even if you're in an area where you have a lot of IPv4 addresses.  Other people expect you to have your content reach full value of IPv6.  It's good because the other parts of the Internet may only have IPv6 to work with.  Think about mobile operators in some parts of the globe which will have to be deploying millions of handsets with IPv6. 

So for sake of the Internet transition, but also so your content is directly reachable.  If nothing else, make sure that your content, your new website, your new applications are put on with v4 and v6.  That's actually a great learning experience because it lets you work on your networks of v4 and v6 without doing all the access networks.  It lets you build experience.  You may still be connecting users up with v4.  But make sure your parts are v6 reachable.  Right now the only choice they have is v4 for new users. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you, John. 

>> Mr. Sherman, good morning.  This is crucial ‑‑ my name is Sulo. 

I'm from the country Nigeria.  From the technological ‑‑ we have ‑‑ we in ‑‑ in the ‑‑ we are surely interested in deploying this IPv6 for our local network place.  To local addresses.  Because it's about four years ago we had a training with AfriNIC and IPv6. 

But on the problem is this:  We are not really having the services from the ‑‑ you know, from the providers of this ‑‑ IPv6.  So even if you have it, you look at ‑‑ your local link, you ‑‑ to network, it's IPv6.  You discover that what this company is IPv4.  So therefore we discover that those links towards Africa, they are also IPv4 now.  Also focussing that we should go IPv6. 

Then what can we do when we are look at the ‑‑ IPv6 address because that gives you easy identification.  You can easily have machine can identify using it.  Without using DHCP.  You get this address. 

So my question is now, how do we look at interface with those ISPs that are with IPv4 contents? 

Thank you. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much.  Very interesting question to the panel. 

So before I comment on any of them, I would like to from the panelists if you have specific answer to ‑‑ to the question. 

Want to say something? 

I will take up on one of ‑‑ one of the question of John.  We are doing a lot of training, we are talking, we are doing a lot of awareness around IPv6.  But it's still not taking up.  Especially in Africa region. 

I can tell you that since 2006 Africa has ‑‑ 2,000, deploy IPv6.  Even though we have seen the ‑‑ the IPv6 penetration grow from 2 percent to around 10 percent of networking Africa, now advertising on IPv6, we haven't reached where we want to be yet. 

The main issue I think in most of the country in Africa is the ‑‑ the coordination and the cooperation between the different stakeholders.  We have seen that government role is key here.  Where government should come up with a plan, a strategy for the country.  Or lead therefore.  And also create a platform where the different stakeholder, the developer, the ISP ‑‑ the question from our friend from Nigeria, if I don't have connectivity, I'm not moving.  You have to have an address solution for that. 

But we want to have direct peer to talk IPv6.  So maybe focussing on creating local task force, local interest group on IPv6, where different stakeholders can come and discuss.  Could be invested? 

To restrict that I will talk about the case of Mauritius.  We have been working with the past 6, 8 month now with regulatory authority on the national IPv6 strategy.  They have ‑‑ their global strategy, IPv6 as key element for deployment. 

But how are they going to do that? 

So we are work with them.  And they are doing some interesting thing, which can be really replicated.  They start with a global consultation for ‑‑ of all the stakeholders.  They set a questionnaire for stakeholder to ask how they see IPv6; which kind of initiating the one government to have IPv6.  How ‑‑ what is their plan, et cetera. 

That's the outcome of that consultation has been thrown into the ministerial meeting where the government took a formal decision saying the outcome of this is what we have to do.  And then we are putting in place a national IPv6 task force where all the stakeholder are called to discuss what they will do. 

So I think we need to create more coordination and ‑‑ within countries.  Where the issue can be raised, not in ‑‑ but globally so that the issue can be addressed. 

Research and education, I think that is also a huge challenge.  Not only in Africa, globally.  Education, curriculum include IPv6 today.  How can we foster research in IPv6 area? 

Because IPv is a new area.  But also can be an interesting tool for innovation as well.  We integrate that.  And an interesting question that they want to look at.

I will be interested to also hear from what our government groups hear in ‑‑ sense their view on IPv6 deployment. 

>> Yes.  I think you raised a very important point there about establishing task forces or other local communications.  John's point, this is global.  And cooperate with each other and especially in local environments, sharing information.  Is visible.  And we should all around. 

We can actually by looking at other statistics easily pick out those countries that have active task forces and that have active groups working on this.  And joining up this ‑‑ one of the ‑‑ one of the delegates pointed out, it's about getting connectivity there and by joining up. 

It can help in getting that carrier to deploy IPv6 into your local exchange so you can pick up the connectivity part.  You have to cooperate.  This is not something you can achieve yourself.  Well, you might be able to do it yourself, but it's really hard. 

>> ADIEL AKPOGAN:  Thank you very much.  We are running out of time, so we will have to wrap up this workshop. 

Thank you very much for your participation.  Thank you to the panelists for your very interesting view and material on IPv6.  We will prepare a report of the workshop that will be circulated and also will fit into the open forum discussion on resources. 

What I will say as conclusion of this workshop is collaboration and cooperation at local level and also at the global level on IPv6, the issue is multi‑touch, different aspects of the Internet, and all those stakeholders has to come together and discuss the issue and try to elaborate step‑by‑step approach for this operators, regulators, government and end user.  Must be involved in this. 

On this, thank you. 

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to hear from the remote presenter.  But thank you everybody.  And we ‑‑ we wish success for IPv6.  Thank you. 

(Applause)


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