The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the virtual Fifteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF), from 2 to 17 November 2020. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> AVRI DORIA: It leaves us with about a minute. Okay. Okay. It's now 10 minutes after the hour. I ask one more time and then perhaps I'll ask again later, but if any of the attendees who isn't already a panelist is an organizer or director of a school, I'd like to invite you to join us as panelists and ask you to raise your hand so that I can ask that you be promoted into the panelist spot. If not, I see a hand. Could you please make Holloway a panelist? I see her hand.
With that, I suggest that we start. Sandra is the founder and chair of the ‑‑ first of all, let me introduce myself. I am Avri Doria. I have am the coordinator and working on the documents and such. I would like to introduce Sandra who is the Dynamic Coalition to sort of start us off with a few words.
>> Sandra: Thanks to everyone who took the night hour in particular in the U.S. and in the other part, it's not a night hour, but in the U.S., I know it's pretty early for joining us at this time. I just want to go take very briefly why this Dynamic Coalition was formed and would then like to invite everyone to give ‑‑ to introduce him or herself quickly so that we know who's on the call. It's good to see so many and this is basically a sign that the concept of organizing schools on Internet Governance has really stretched across the world and it is a sustainable one. And we are actually very happy about every school that we see emerging and, um, at some point, it was like 4 or 5 years ago, we were thinking about what can we do to create sort of a network because some schools could help each other and draw an agenda. You could, of course, exchange the best practices and among potential speakers. And, um, also the panels could basically form sort of a network if there's a basic network for schools on Internet Governance. And, um, since two or three years we are working constantly on different tools that might help, new schools to emerge, but also existing schools to develop and I think these tools that I think I know these two toolkits and operations guides including the website and WIKI will be part of our discussion today. I encourage everyone to contribute with their experiences and if you are not yet subscribed to the network mailing list, please do so. This dynamic coalition is meeting once a month and we are very efficient thanks to aviary who is organizing the secretariat and the communication with everyone. So it does not add much to your agenda and much to your workload that you have, but I'm sure you will find it beneficial to work on this network on schools on Internet Governance and meet once in day while.
With this as I said, I would like to ask ‑‑ actually, I don't know who to do that in the webinar style.
>> AVRI DORIA: If I can interrupt, perhaps we can basically go through the people who are the directors and organizers who have been promoted to panelists and again, I invite anyone who is an attendee who, ah, has not been promoted but is an organizer to raise their hands so that we can add you to the panel. So if we just did through the panelists and perhaps can either go through the list or can ‑‑
>> SANDRA HOFERICH: We can go down from the list and go down from the top to the bottom. On top of my screen is Avri Doria. Avery as I said already is the secretary and coordinator. Basically the heart of this effort. Without her, it won't happen, let's put it that way.
And on top of that, Avri is the member that attended the various schools and I can say that for sure she attended every European school of Internet governance. The last one was only remotely, but she was there. I think this should probably make you the golden star among all the veteran among all faculty members and I'm very glad that you are ‑‑ that you took on this job. But maybe, AVRI, you say a few words yourself.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thanks. I don't have that much more to add. You know? I enjoy doing the schools. I enjoyed teaching in them. And, ah, I think there's a lot more people who can interest. I will be talking all the way through after this. So enough of me. And thanks.
>> SANDRAa: And the next on this list is myself. So just to introduce myself. I am coordinating together with both the European Internet Governance school and most of you will know it was the first ever that was invented and that started off. And we are running our schools since we are entering now the 15th years and we had 10 years anniversary and we hope we all have reasons to celebrate the 15th anniversary. And Wolfgang is also on the call, but he preferred to stay on the listening mode. But maybe we will hear from him later on because he is really the chair of all this. He was the one who introduced the concept and made this all come alive.
Then next on my list is Anriette.
>> ANRIETTE: Hi, Sandra. Hi, Avri. Good morning. It's morning where I am. So good morning, good night, whatever, everyone. I'm talking to you and I am together with my colleague and you'll meet her liter. The convene of the African school on African governance. It is also an international school and it was launched in 2013 and has since then taken place every year. I have had the pleasure to be faculty a few times, but also convene with the advice of others on this group such as Olga Cavalli. Thanks a lot, everyone. It's good to have the school.
>> SANDRA: Thank you. Next is Rainy. You are muted Rainer. Still muted. Okay. Then ‑‑
>> RAINER: Thank you there are having me. Basically the convener of the European summer school and that's how I came to the network and I'm responsible for the ticket means of the Dynamic Coalition. If anything is wrong with the website or with the WIKI, then I'm responsible for it and please let me know so I can fix it.
>> SANDRA: Thank you, Rainer.
>> Hi. This is Jabberra from Tanzania. You are getting challenged to Connect and we are using our account ‑‑ my account. With me I have ‑‑
>> SANDRA: Thank you very much for introducing.
>> Thank you so much.
>> SANDRA: Now I go fitter down the list. Olga, it's your turn.
>> OLGA CAVALLI: Good morning, Sandra. Hello, everyone. Hello, Anriette and Glenn and all friends there. Thank you for organizing this meeting very important and I'm here with my colleague. He says hello to all of you. We created this school we call it South School of Internet Governance because the intention wasn't for South America. It has become quite an international especially the last virtual version. I will tell you later in the meeting about it. My English is bad. And that was 12 years ago. Inspired by the European school of Internet Governance. And then 4 years ago, we started with the Argentina governance school, but it happened to have participants from Latin America. So the international ‑‑ the original one was both in English and Spanish all the time. This is why we have some participants from other regions and Argentina in the moment is only in Spanish. I have prepared some pictures to show you about the last literal version that was a different version event. Thank you for inviting me.
>> SANDRA: Good to have you here. Next is Ilona.
>> ILONA: Thank you, everybody. It's not just Russian, it's aimed more at the broader Russian speaking community. So we have participants from the regions and today I will also shed some light on our experience because auto the first school for us this year, but we didn't start from scratch. We accumulate all the experience you made in other parts and we conducted summer schools. And I will be happy to share some slides also and how we did this selection, the application process and how were the outcomes. Thank you.
>> SANDRA: We are very curious and the material is already helping to you take off. Next on the list is Danco. I am not currently enrolled with the school of internet governance, but I am very interested in the sent because I believe ‑‑ subject because I believe our region that we speak a similar language here. And I believe that we need the school of internal governance because it is such an important certainty and especially for smaller countries. I am planning on doing something about it. My (inaudible) is ending at this meeting. So I'll be trying to follow your leadership and the starting something in the region and I'm counting of stealing your best practices and on your support. So thank you for doing this.
>> SANDRA: You are welcome to steal it. Next is Adrian.
>> OLGA CAVALLI: He doesn't have a mic, but he says hello.
>> SANDRA: Okay. Thank you. (inaudible)
>> My name is Colimma and I organize the African school with Anriette and she's given some background. So we'll share our experiences as the conversation goes. Thanks.
>> SANDRA: Thank you.
>> Hi, Sandra. Hello, everyone. I've been helping with new school in the region Danko in the neighbors area. We had the first addition in 2019 where we wanted to have one this year, but everything happened. (inaudible) about planning something for spring next year. Probably some sort of a hybrid format. So the school sufficient name is the (inaudible) governor and policies and innovation and in addition to that, we're also running a smaller very focused new school in the framework of (inaudible). Thank you.
>> SANDRA: Thank you. And then we have half person here on this panel Mark relate.
>> MARGARET: Good morning and good afternoon. My name is Margaret. And in part ofma we are doing if for helping African countries to create their Internet Governance forum school of IG.
Starting this year, there are countries that have never had it in their school of IGF and within 23, we focusd on 10. Namely Esotonia, Erupt, Liberia, Morocco and Mortania. We hope we wanted to do the same so other countries have already done their school of IG. We have noted that in IGF. We are working with them apart from Madagascar. So I'm here to learn from you and to see what we can improve better. We did a curriculum just to say that (inaudible) is part of the African addition. We're here to learn from other people who have done this and see what we can do together. Thank you.
>> SANDRA: This was the last person on this panel and I'm glad to say that we have almost worldwide presentations. We are just missing the Asia‑Pacific region and again, I would like to call on the participants whatever might have joined later and as an organizer of a school in particular of that region. Let us know in the chat and we will put you on the panel so that we have good presentation across the world and now I also seek Glenn. Glenn, good to see you back. Glenn is from the north American region. So Glenn, please quickly introduce yourself as well.
>> GLENN McNIGHT: Sure. Actually I'm from Canada just to be clear. Yeah. I've been involved with the organizer of the emotional American school of governor. We did the first one in San Juan, Puerto Rico followed by Montreal and we were supposed to do one this year again in Washington, but due to COVID‑19, it has been on stall. In the last almost 6 months, we've been focused on the virtual school of governance project. So that's our main concern. We really have not been sure if we will do another one next year due to COVID‑19. So time will tell.
>> SANDRA: Yeah. Indeed, COVID is shaking the entire world. So this was the tour tabla. With this, I would like to hand over to AVRI to walk us through the agenda and conduct the meeting. Go ahead. It's your turn now.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay. So let me ‑‑ first of all, I do want to ask if there's anyone else who came in late who's a convener, organizer or direct ore what have you of a school that would like to be added to the panel, please raise your hand and then you'll get added to the panel. Okay? Gustavo, your organizing is a school not to pick on you, but I thought you were one who was the organizing one that you haven't raised your hand.
>> GLENN McNIGHT: AVRI, what are you doing with your hand?
>> AVRI DORIA: I am playing with the attendees list. I'm sorry. I'm using an iPad. Maybe if I use the pencil it will be less offensive. Let me go to the agenda then. And we already started with the introductions. And glad to do it in that. Now, I can tell we're going to have to change the agenda somewhat because I've had to people mention they had slides to show us. So I'll put that in at the end if that's okay. So the normal path that I wanted to take through here of the first review the work done since our last meeting. And basically go through that quickly, but I want to make sure that people know it's there especially the people that are perhaps new to the Dynamic Coalition and haven't been meeting with us as often and sort of explain. So we'll go through a quick tour of the website just to show what's there and to see where people are at. Introduce the toolkit which is one of the documents we've been working on for two years and, ah, the operations guide. Then I wanted to get into our discussion about possible plans for the coming year. And there are some initial suggestions that came up in various meetings that we've had over the course of time of people bringing up saying, okay. We should do this. We should do that. So I spent a little bit of time on that. Then I have any other business.
So the first thing I would like to put under any other business is to, you know, make it possible for people that did bring slides about their school to show them and I understand that there are two that want to, but I'll ask again when we get there. And so that's about it for the agenda. Is there anything else that people think I should add to this agenda before we go on with it? And oh, yeah. I have to look through hands. Pardon me hand going up and down in front of the screen. Okay. I don't see anyone.
So in which case, we'll go with this agenda and we'll start off basically just looking at the work that's been done and since the last meeting, which was in Berlin at the last IGF. And at that meeting, Rainer introduced the website. It has been worked on some more and I've asked him to take a quick tour through that especially showing us places that are available for you all to either identify your school, to identify yourselves as teachers or what have you or the WIKI that offers opportunities for anyone that has a school to add information. Can I turn it over to you now, Rainer?
>> RAINER: Thank you, AVRI. We are more or less in a state of construction site with the website. As you may see, sorry, I need to make some space to be able to show you the website. Here we are. Just let me know if you have any problems to see this week. We (inaudible) outside. We have all activities since we need on the IGFs. There are the different meetings listed. We have also the schools on Internet Governance. We got some new school just recently that's the Russian summer school on Internet Governance. It's already on the map. As you can see, we have a lot of schools basically in Africa and we hope to get more from other regions in the world. You can (inaudible) a new school just filling in the form. It shouldn't be that complicated and then we will put you on the network and also put you on the map. That's also a small overview of the schools that are listed so far and with the year of foundation.
Next two points are mostly to be filled in. We thought about to have fellows and also faculties listed. These are more or less faculties and fellows taken from the Euro tech school seat because nobody else has volunteered. We also have forms. They are for other people to fill in and be listed on the site, but we have not decided as the coalition how to go under with people who are wanted to be listed. That needs to be discussed. Also we have the possibility to draw in the network. That's mostly done as Sandra said via the mailing list you can subscribe here. That's very easy. Just send an e‑mail to this address and you will put on the list.
Now, I can show you the WIKI. We set up for summer schools for the schools on the Internet Governance. Also here we do have a list and we have always a small kind of brief description for every school so you can get an impression about who is on the network already. Some people as the peel from the North American School on Internet Governance especially Glenn, did already submit some additional material beyond only this brief description and we put it on the website. The point is the WIKI is meant to be August for this kind of material to the whole community and we ask everyone to be part of it and to contribute. As of now, we only have very few people that have already signed in to the WIKI. You need to (inaudible) by just sending an e‑mail. As you can see, only a few people have taken advantage of this possibly. And I really want to invite you become active, become a member of the economic coalition and also subscribe to the WIKI to contribute active. That's basically it is from my side. So back to you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Yeah. One question was asked on could we give them in the chat the URL. But you can see it here it's www.igschools.net. And that will take you to the website and it's open. So I'm doing it on an iPad. If somebody else wants to type it in, however, you will see it on top of the agenda.
Can you take us back to the agenda?
>> RAINER: Yes.
>> AVRI DORIA: And really looking at that to develop as a source. Now one of the things we're still working on as Rainer says it's still being constructed. In some cases, we're looking for a means to ‑‑ for example, we record all the meetings we had. We had six of them, you know, and they're Zoom meetings and we record them, but finding the space to store them is still somewhat a challenge. So we are looking for, you know, a way to either fund storage or to find an (inaudible) donation of storage so that is something we are looking for, but that will ‑‑ so there's a problem that we're still working on. And, um, but it is coming along nicely and I'm really glad to see. Last year when we showed the map of schools, I think there was only one or two on it. When we first showed it at the last meeting, so really happy to see all those nodes in it. And as Rainer said, anybody that wants to go further and start building something in the WIKI or wants to register those schools, wants to put themselves on the map, et cetera, please get in touch with Rainer and, um, he will be able to give you the pointers and to help relieve to do that.
So I don't know if there's any questions on that. Are people who report panelists able to raise their hand to ask questions? Or not? I'm not sure. But I don't see any hands up. Yes, I do see a hand. Please, go ahead and ask your question.
>> OLGA CAVALLI: AVRI, this is Olga. Can I make a comment?
>> AVRI DORIA: I see a couple others. I was trying to get the person who was asking ‑‑ so, sorry. But in the mean time while waiting for him to get on the questionable list.
>> Hello?
>> AVRI DORIA: Hello. Yes. Is this JABORO?
>> JABERA: Yes. Sorry. We had ‑‑ my question was in terms ‑‑ this is Jabera from Tanzania community. I was very much interested to know how does substantivability achieve this? Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Some of that is documented in our documents in terms of ways of putting together ways of fund raising, ways of making them sustainable. So I don't know if anyone wants to jump on that, but perhaps some of the people that are actually in the cue now can take a shot at that one. But otherwise, you know, I basically recommend there's various ways of doing it and that's one of the things that we're trying to collect in the documents we're producing. I have Glenn and Olga with hands on. If you can say what you plan to say and then if you have an answer, perhaps you can add it to your discussion there. So Glenn?
>> GLENN McNIGHT: Yeah. Great. I just lowered my hand as well. The question ‑‑ the reason I put up my hand was regarding the website. So, um, it pre‑dated my involvement. So my questions are quite clear. How do you sustain it? Where does the funds come from in order to maintain it and are we looking at a model where active members are actually paying into the pool to sustain it? That's sort of a logistical question I'm having on the website to pay for Rainer's time or development and promotion. So that's the one question. And response to the question that just came up. Yeah. I think we tried to address the issue of fund raising and sustainability in the operations guide, which we'll be talking about a little bit later. But I think it's critical that every school has a familiar plan, a business plan looking at ways and means of making it sustainable. It's one thing having an idea to do a school and it's an honorable thing. There has to be some familiar resources behind it. So it's a real challenge in some cases because the sponsors are not even in terms of where they give the money. It's not ‑‑ it's a real difficult time for a lot of schools to raise the money. My sympathies are for the schools especially new schools. That's it.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay. Thank you. I don't have an answer to your question. I don't know whether Sandra would be able to answer your question, but I'll give Sandra a chance to think about it and I'll go to Olga who has her hand up.
>> GLENN McNIGHT: Sure.
>> OLGA CAVALLI: Thank you, AVRI. Once we organize the school in Washington, we had to help in the Caribbean. There were 40 people attending the school from remote. Now everything is remote, but at that time, it was quite new. My question is: I did subscribe to the list and thanks to Rainer for his help in putting our information into the website. We did that. We talked with him in Berlin last year and so he guided us to do that. Thanks for that. I think we could add more information soon. But I did subscribe to the list. I don't get the information about the meetings. I would like to participate if possible and contribute with our experience.
About sustainability, it's difficult. We do not charge. Nobody pays for the South School of Internet Governance or the Argentina school of Internet Governance in our case. We rotate among countries and the key issue is the host organization in every meeting. So we have to start from scratch every year. That's very tough, but it's funny at the same time. And, um, yeah. It's difficult especially now that it's virtual. Everyone seems to think that it's cheap or cheaper, which is not. And I will show you some pictures of what we did organize and it was not cheap. It was very expensive, but it turn out to be very interesting and virtually different and a different experience.
>> AVRI DORIA: And I'm looking forward to seeing those pictures at the end. Sandra, did you want to add anything to this before I move on to the documents?
>> Sandra: Thank you for giving me the floor. Since this question at least what I understood it was directed to European summer school is financed. I would like to give a very brief and Frank concept. We don't rely on one big donor, but we have many that give little and with this, we are not in a position that if one steps out for whatever reason in a year, that's the entire concept that becomes challenged. And I think this is very important and also while I do have great sympathy with a concept that everyone can participate for free, every country or every region can think of that there are people in the region like government or from the business sector that are able and willing to pay for education. And, um, we always have certain amount of people that pay for their participation and this also gives us the advantage that we bring together two communities when you think of it in a mighty stakeholder concept. You have people in a position to pay for education and you have people that are really youngsters. And this is another additional advantage that offers a lot of peer learning experience in this regard. I'm pretty sure that every region, every country has people that need that knowledge about Internet Governance and have the funds either by their organization or by themselves to be able to pay for it. I encourage every school national or regional to take that into consideration and not be too shy and thinking that it has to be free. It's also a notion in some people's mind that what is for free is worth nothing. I'm not in favor of that notion because I think a lot of things can be for free and they have a very great value. But still some communities are used to pay for their attendance and conferences and they are rather puzzled if it's for free. You can just attend without paying for it. So just keep that in mind and that might also give you an additional resource of funds if a third of the people basically pay for their participation. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. Before I go to the documents, I will take one last person. Mary has her hand up and she should actually be sitting with us on the panel as I know she has done several schools. So Mary, can you speak or do we need to be ‑‑ do you need to unmute yourself?
>> Mary: Thank you, everyone. I'm coming in late. I'm happy that I managed to come to the session. I just wanted to share with my brother from Tanzania the little things well done in the west Africa school of Internet governance. We have done the third one ‑‑ we have done the third one and one of the things that has helped us is that we rotate from country to country in west Africa and we have ‑‑ we have the whole country do some take up some of our costs. So in kind, he has us. So then ‑‑ I'm sorry. My grandchild is disturbing me.
>> AVRI DORIA: Grandchildren are wonderful. Don't worry about it.
>> Mary: And we had hybrid. That's (inaudible). We'll provide some part of the costs. For instance, we provide them materials and we provide some other costs. What does that mean? This year we said we were not going to have any fellowship and since it was going online and, um, we only asked those that could attend, that is their Connecting with that or be anything. That's why we have done big over the years. What we do is that we start on time to seek for funding and support from all over. Most of the times, the (inaudible) country and some of our partners do help us. We have not been able to charge anything because we believe Internet Governance, the school is part of Internet Governance process and if we develop the next generation that would take over from the (inaudible), we should give them the necessary training. So we prepare on time. We get the country involved and we get our secretariat. We get them involved as well so they can come in like give those supporting T breaks and the rest of them. It's always good to prepare and again, we know that we don't have the resources to do five days or six days or seven days. We do three days. And we make sure we take the most important modules the young people in particular would be able to grab and run with when (inaudible) process. I hope I have been able to share a little bit of testings we do in west Africa. It will help. And we're happy that we're seeing more school on Internet Governance in west Africa nations. Kind of where to go and booking and all of them are coming on board and we're happy and we're also encouraging them to be part of the dynamic coalition. You fill out the forms and become part of it and then there's also Nigeria. Nigeria did not hold this year, but I know by 2021, it will hold. Thank you very much.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you very much. I will go one more post before I move to the documents, but then I really am going to move. One thing I want to mention, all the things that people just said are the kinds of information that we like to try and collect into the documents that we're going. When I looked ‑‑ I will show you the tables of contents into the document and while we're doing this, if you can put up the toolkit, that would be good. But Anriette, the last one I talk before I go into the documents a little.
>> I have nothing really to add. It was in response to the question about funding and resources and I think all the different models have been covered. I just I guess the one thing I want to say is there are different types of schools and I think the residential and long schools cost a lot of money and they do need more resources. Partners a lot and Mary has demonstrated that Lawrence is written about partnership. But also the hybrid model, I think we have to recognize who the participants are. Some can pay. Some can't pay. And I think that is really what we try to do. We try and accommodate people based on what their sheets are. Partnership is very important, but I think there is space for free schools linked to a national regional IGF. You can have maybe one day of learning activity, which is not as expensive to run and which can be subsidized or covered by the host. So just to say lots of different models that I think I've been covered. Thanks, AVRI.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. Today I will hold off because I want to get started with the toolkit and then I'll bring you in.
So if I can have the toolkit document, please. I think you have it right there. Thank you. Okay. And can you take me down to the table of contents? Basically a little bit. Okay. There it is. So basically just want to show that, um, I'm sorry, Rainer, to ask you if you want to do this. With this toolkit, this is the second year that we're working on this document. It's a living document and you'll find at the bottom ‑‑ first of all, you will find this document on the website and it's pointed there. On the bottom of the page, you will find the name. It's small characters down there, but it's basically a Google drive document that is open for anybody that wants to suggest new content that wants to suggest changes to the text either adding, correcting, what have you. And basically the way we have been working on it is that as I say, the document is open. Everyone that participates in the DC is invited to contribute to the document when you are reading it. You know something that isn't in there. For example, all the information we got about, you know, the funding models. We have under here on the heading called same descriptors, but basically we talk about the focus in schools, funding models, (inaudible) and programs, metrics and recording. Partnerships, residential status, requirements, et cetera. So you see a lot of that information in this toolkit. The part that was before this that we went by is basically just a sort of discussion of the various types of topics that can be discussed. Now all the information that goes into these is basically offered as a resource and none of it is rules. None of it is saying one must do this versus that. In fact, what we are trying to do is to collect as much information as possible and such. I'm getting messages from panelists, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about it. So basically if you go up a little on this, Rainer, just to show for example, we talk about the various topics that one might cover. We add topics every year. We added content to the discussions, but basically going through all the various topics and then, you know, you sort of see these are topics that might be in a curriculum, et cetera. Not going to walk through this document at the moment. But we do walk through it frequently. Whenever we have a meeting, what we basically do is we walk through all the recommended changes that people have offered since our last meeting. We discuss them. We either accept them into the document. After that discussion, or, you know, we talk about them more. You know? Sort of frying to sort of building up the collection very much working on this in a bottom‑up manner to try and build a document. So there is no one offer although I would suggest that in this document, a lot of it has been contributed by some very talented and a small handful of people some of whom are attending this session. So basically ‑‑ okay, Glenn. I don't know if you wanted to ask something while I ask Rainer to sort of put up the next document which is the document that you initiated and, ah, are a co‑editor on. Glenn, did you have a comment?
>> GLENN McNIGHT: Yeah. Sure. For those who have been coming to the monthly calls, we've been going through this document and it, ah, the origin of the document itself is from after participating with the taxonomy logically now that you have bare bones concept and setting up the force, funding the course, all the nuances that come in and a lot of times people say hey, I want to have a course too because they have in another country. And some people have a misconception that it is a money maker or whatever. This is not a money maker. This is a viable concept for, you know, whether an ISOC chapter or the local universities or other groups that see that this has value. So what we try to do with this plan is to provide you with the nuts and bolts and we try to think of all the things that you should consider. Everything from the facility to the promotion, to the processes of selecting students, selecting the various different committees and then post survey work. So it's from cradle to grave in terms of how to do this. So coming from an operations background, this was not that difficult for me where the work in progress is that this is just a Skeleton as well. It may look complete, but it's not because it doesn't have, you know, the job descriptions. It doesn't have the metrics. It doesn't have all the other components that are really quite critical that, you know, and it should be down the road. It may not be next year whatever, but it's something that I recommend as a progress that we have a repository of the documents that are associated with each of these sections. So what I am trying to say is that this is really the nuts and bolts of how to run a school. Doesn't mean it's going to be successful because you do tick marks on all these things. You can be very unsuccessful, but very good on paper. So back to you, AVRI.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay. Thank you. Yes. This document is relatively new. I think it's only been in about half a year. And Glenn, you have done quite a bit on it. I have been calling it an annotative outline. There's a lot of entries and a couple lines, a paragraph about what needs to go in there. Some this is basically the income level down from ‑‑ next level down from the toolkit document. At some point, these may be joined as a single document, but this one is further behind the development because it was started this year. But the idea is that now going through all those details that you saw ‑‑ I will stop there for a second. Everything from catering to medical and emergencies to, you know, website handling. So all those new details that anybody that has organized a school or is organizing a school has run into. So basically what we're hoping can happen in this document is that people will contribute their experiences, their knowledge. You know? The way you solve these problems will not be the same everywhere. It's one of the things that we have yet to do and it's sort of the ‑‑ to sort of take these things and sort of open them up further and sort of look at it. How is it different in one region or another or is something pretty much the same. And that's a level of, you know, that we haven't gotten into.
Another thing that Gustavo did not end up joining us in the panel. He has started a process to let's look at can we translate some of these into other languages. Now we wouldn't translate the operations one yet because it still needs to be flushed out. But the toolkit, for example, has gotten far enough along that, you know, it's worth his while to look at it. Again, you'll find that and sort of a warning upfront on the D.C is every good idea is really appreciated but then I will try to get you to do it. That idea is sort of coming with and can you help us do it because there isn't a large staff that can sit and, you know, do the research and do the writing. It really counts on the people who come, who participate to contribute their knowledge and insure people like me and others will take it and edit it and massage it and do the formatting and whatever, but there's only a limited amount of content to which I'm confident at writing or any of us are confident, but hopefully the one that suggests something. For example, Glenn in this case suggested this document, built it outline and then did a lot of the first, you know, annotating of that outline. The compensation for a good idea is me asking them to do some work. Yes?
>> GLENN McNIGHT: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. Sometimes it pays not to volunteer sometimes, but on the other hand, I think this is such an essential thing because it keeps coming up. Look at the question about sponsorship and fund raising. You know? If you don't have a business and sponsorship plan, you're just all over the map. So frankly, all we try to do with this is that that's just one element of yes. Money is important, but it's surprising how much you can do with very little money especially like Danco is asking about our partnerships. Our first event, we partnered with the local university. At no cost on the facility. So you can work with the IT sector and getting donated websites or possibly, you know, Zoom account or whatever. There is ‑‑ there's ways of getting stuff without hard cash. So that's ‑‑ that should be part of the plan. I frankly, when I do projects, I tend to work from a budget first and then I work on the physical documents. So budget work and then back and forth to make it viable.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay. Thank you. And I don't mean to dissuade people from having ideas and suggesting them. If we can go back to the agenda now, I'd like to sort of get to the next part of this.
So I basically just wanted to show there the documents as I say are on the website. If you look at our agenda here on the website, you'll see the pointers to the documents and within the documents and those are pointers to PDF versions and the footer of every page is the drive for the document. They are open to anyone with the URL to comment and make suggestions. So if you've got the document, you got the URL. You can make comments. There haven't been any abuses of that if there were abuses, I would deal with them. If I had to do tighter about getting specific people access, I could. But so far in two years, that has not been an issue and I hope it continues to not be an issue. Let me just check and see. Okay. And now I wanted to go and we only have a certain amount of time here. I think we only have 90 minutes.
I wanted to look at the plans for the next year. So one of the ones is the maintenance of the current documents. So the toolkit we've got, you know, as I say, remains open. I will make edits on it. Other people will make edits on it. If I happen to notice edits on it for one of our periodic meetings, I will then put it on the agenda so that we can go through those. One item of work for next year is obviously to take the operations guide that Glen just spoke about and start digging into it further. Looking at how to start filling those in with information and so I'd ask anyone that's reading that and comes to a section and says I know all about this. This is something I'm really good at. That's the reason for sitting down and adding Syntax. Do not worry about making it beautiful. Did not worry about making it perfect. Getting one line, two lines, a paragraph page, however much you can because every (inaudible) that someone puts down is something that someone else can build on. That worked very successfully at getting the fool kit to where it is now and ‑‑ toolkit to where it is now and hopefully it will know if to work. Those are two items I will sort of assuming. So that's the first one there which is continue work on toolkit and operations guide. We've had other discussions. For example, you know, collect and supported materials and curation and that is sort of looking at the (inaudible). We had one set of really good contributions to the WIKI. We can add more. If we start to add more, it starts to get bigger and easier and figure out how to curate it and how to make if trackable and how to make something that people can look up materials. Collecting curriculum A. something that's been talked about a lot is how do we do curriculum with one of these schools. How do I build it? Interestingly enough, I was at a (inaudible) in that meeting. Was if yesterday? Seems like a month ago, but I think it was yesterday. And they have also started a curriculum collection. They're correcting curriculum for full courses. We've collecting curriculums for the schools, but they're not all that different. So one of the things I look at and talk to people is seeing whether there's any way to share and build on each other's work. I don't know. It's just an idea I've had.
Developing guidelines for said curriculum. (inaudible) coming up with suggestions. Here's the curricula we did if you want to follow it is to come up with different models of curriculum. So if somebody is starting school and they say I want to focus on regional health issues. Then these are the kinds of things or I would like to go to school and focus on international, you know, critical resources, et cetera. Basically give some guidelines, some (inaudible) and templates. I don't know what the right word is, but that's an idea that's come up of work that can be done and that might be useful to our work. And then, you know, basically you can take a few minutes though not that many at this point if people will have a chance to show their slides. But, you know, perhaps I can see if there are any hands and people's suggestions of any other work and in the meantime, perhaps Olga, you can start setting yourself up to show slides so that we have time to do it. But at the moment, are there any questions or comments or suggestions beyond those that have been mentioned to things we should be doing?
>> RAINER: Do we have any questions in the QFAQ. We have a question in FAQ. Maybe you can take this.
>> AVRI DORIA: Oh, to create an FAQ?
>> GLENN McNIGHT: There's a question in Q&A.
>> AVRI DORIA: I'm sorry. I didn't look at the chat. Doing these things on an iPad is really difficult. Unfortunately my laptop is a disaster. Okay. Yeah. Olga, please. I don't see the ‑‑
>> OLOLADE SHYLLON: I can read the caption, if you want. Antonio says hello from Spain. Our organization develops a variety of life‑long learning activities especially in the field of digital inclusion through a number of 75 digital competence centers located in rural and remote areas. Our target groups are low skilled youngsters and also local and regional stakeholders in both public and Private Sector. We are fund by the regional government and school and Internet governance is something we would like to think about. How can we start? How would we be the first steps and I said they can contact us. He already did by e‑mail and then (inaudible) said hi, Antonio. We have the operations guy which will be useful in this respect and she shares a link to the IG schools website.
>> AVRI DORIA: I forgot about the Q&A part and I was only looking at the GA part.
>> OLGA CAVALLI: How do we teach the media to teach people?
>> AVRI DORIA: I don't have an answer for that. Does anybody have an answer?
>> I can try and make an attempt. So I think this is a model that hasn't been explode yet in terms of linking or having the media involved in covering the actual schools. So I think the first thing would be to consider partnerships would probably be a local radio stations so that this coverage of the actual session itself, but I think what we have learned also now in the current period where we actually have most of the schools running virtually, what I have seen happening is life streaming of the actual stations during the schools, but in terms of continuous, you know, learning, I think this is way the schools website would probably become in where you have specific models around sharing specific issues covering during the school. If you look at the website, we keep the resources open throughout the year. So even though there's no deliberate interaction between people who make reference or look at the specific resources, they are still open and available, but I think it will also be deliberate to come up with a continuous curricular and come up with a plan for you to interact with people on deliberately either on a mainstream media channel or utilize your specific website if not the available tools for live streaming. I think in Africa, my observation has really been a lot of interaction or live streaming happens on Facebook. So you can probably even consider Facebook live session. Thanks, AVRI.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. Again, that sounds like the kind of information that belongs either in our toolkit or in the operations guide depending upon what level of detail is. So that seems a great thing to add to content over time. Okay. Glenn, I will call on you next. What I would like to recommend though in the meantime is if Rainer, you can quit sharing so that alga can start sharing ‑‑ Olga can start sharing her pictures. Unless there is someone else to share pictures ‑‑
>> Hello? Hello? Mary here. Can you hear me?
>> AVRI DORIA: Yes, Mary.
>> Mary: I just want to say (inaudible) in 2019 when the first Nigerian school on Internet governance application opened, we had to have 700 applications. Thanks to the driver, they did a great job by doing some online tutorial. So it wasn't just the school. So true out. He did some communications and tutoring of things that would identify to be part of the program. What we would singe is in between after the school just within the (inaudible), we could also use either Facebook or YouTube or Zoom as we have it now to run some modules that we're not covered or some that we've not able to attend so that it's a continuous training. And not just the media. I deep know how the media will work because I don't know if with that the media would be the best form of communication. If we do live streaming using any of these channels, I think it will also help. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. Glenn? Go ahead, please.
>> GLENN McNIGHT: Okay. So I did it in the chat, but I want to reemphasize that I think it's really important for people to apprentice or job shadow other schools. This is a way for them to actually rather than go in completely novice, but to learn from other schools and this is getting back to what I said earlier on. How we make the website sustainable? How do we get buy in from people to be committed to making this coalition successful. We have to provide value and this is the challenge. It would affect so many people are not active. So how do we get them active in one of the ways is, I think, that the more experienced schools bring into their operations a willingness to shadow, a willingness to share the best practice with them so that they are actively involved with the organizational calls and are sponsored to participate with the events on the ground. So that's just my two sense.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you very much. I think a lot of schools are willing to shadow. But yes. It's a great suggestion. Olga, can I turn it over to you?
>> OLGA CAVALLI: Yeah. I'm unmuted?
>> AVRI DORIA: Yeah.
>> OLOLADE SHYLLON: Okay. So this is the picture taken by Glenn in Mexico last year. I wanted to show you some pictures. This is pictures taken in Washington, in Mexico, in Rio de Janeiro and 11 previous additions and this is somehow the story Mexico Sao Paulo, but what happened this year? We couldn't make it face to face because we were going to organize it in University of Buenos Aires. They offered that space, but we decided it was not a good idea to make it face to face. We went virtual. We didn't want to resign the content or the quality or the time devoted to the schools. So we decided to make it five days with the same amount of time with the same amount of experts. But the thing is as it was full virtual, we had many, many more fellows from all over the work. As usual, English Spanish all the time. We had many, many more fellows from five continents and from 34 different countries. It was very interesting. And we had more than 100 experts and 42 sessions. We wanted a different visual experience. We found a company that broadcasted everything from a video studio. Like a TV tile thing and we mixed the images from the different panelists who were abroad and some of us were in the studio. So it was visually very different. You can see some pictures here. We had experts from all over the world and, um, I was there and somehow moderating making the link about the 42 different sessions. And, ah, I think visually it ended up being a different event. So we didn't want to resign that and the fellows were connected as usual through very big ‑‑ not what's up, the other one. Messaging system so they got information one month before. So they were all connected. So visually, it was very interesting and I think I have some other. As it was virtual, we could have many, many experts from all over the world. We had (inaudible) and Big Sur, Chris participator, many ministers from Latin America and many important people. So this is what I wanted to share. If it's virtually, it doesn't have to be small or short. Thank you very much.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. Okay. Was there another person who wanted to share something?
>> Yes. I also would like to show.
>> AVRI DORIA: Would you like to stream? I caught it going through, but it didn't mark it.
>> Okay. Thank you. I would like to share with you our experience of establishing school for the Russian speaking community. And first of all, I would like to say that last year, we were also planning to make it on site event like week long. We mostly looked at the URC as an example. But in spring, we just realized that more and more restrictions are put in the public meetings and all conferences. We decided to make it online. Not to make it just a simple form of lectures. We decided we had a new design for the course. So just a brief information about the application process you see some info graphics here. We go through 100 applications and actually, we aimed our school more at students and graduates, but also we get on board some (inaudible) and specialists. There are lawyers and journalists and lecturers. Now we have a new channel to build a community for Internet Governance in Russia because the most important obstacle for us was to draw attention to the school because Internet governance is not very popular topic in Russia and we had to work on translating all the things, all the processes into the Russian language and explained what is happening abroad in the world. So it was a big challenge. But anyway, we does some campaign for application for equipment of visitors and we went around 100 applications. It was a really good figure for us. And this is the breakdown of their background knowledge and expertise. We got people from AR from ICT in general. There are different streams. From (inaudible) and information security. We had journalists and political scientists, programmers, people who do something with digital economy. Math, education. So this would be breakdown of the background. And since the school was online, I helped us to broaden the geography. So you see that we have markers from the cities where we got the applications. If we did this online somewhere around the Moscow, we will just have Moscow participants. This is not very good. And also we have people from (inaudible). We have people from cause it tan and from Germany. And other states too.
Let's move to the educational process. So as I said, we reviewed the design of the curricula and we decided to make it very long. So we have two months of weekly lectures and interactive sections with learners. So we decided to do the school in two phases. The first was preparatory phase. We take all the applications that we get. We allow people to start with the introduction course to the Internet Governance and then we were monitoring their performance during this phase and then select those who complete all the requirements and show the real interest into the course. And with this phase, we collaborated with Internet Society and they are learning platform. Our learners for the first two taste and bring the course to the Internet Governance. So they updated them. But not to leave our people here, our participants on this course. We designed in addition to the online course additional home tasks and meetings with specialists from the IG field in order to discuss in Russian all the information got from the Internet Society. It was a good decision to do this because that's what people didn't lose during the process and they keep going constantly with homework and discussions in their Native language. This was very important. And after the preparatory phase, we got 50 active learners out of 100 just the half of them. And in September, we ‑‑ we continued our school with the wrong footing of them. On this phase, we have purely Russian content and Russian language. We invited a lot of speakers from ICANN, from ITU, from (inaudible) CC, from our firms related to cybersecurity and another two discussed in deep detail particularly topics, selected topics from the school. (inaudible) system related to Internet governance processes. It is technical topic. They're all legislation. So it is low internet governance. Principals and (inaudible) were built on digital platforms. And while they were listening to the speakers, they also got creative homework tasks. In order to think to rethink the documents that are already here, so one of the tasks was to think about the working group on Internet Governance paper. You remember 2005 setting this paper and we asked them to think how this paper could be written if 2020 given all the changes with the Internet Governance and processes. So this is just one of the examples of the interactive sessions.
>> AVRI DORIA: I'd like to ask whoever is eating and chewing with the microphone open to please shut your microphone.
>> I think it's Glenn.
>> AVRI DORIA: Yeah. I think it might be Glenn.
>> Someone was done so just final words. So, ah, the part of this phase was the group debates. So we organized 40 people in four groups to debate the suggested topics. It was really good. Also they write essays that we will push on the website of our school. Some in the end, there were 38 successful grades from our school. Also we partnered on this part with Saint Peters berg State University. It provided lectures also for several topics and the most important part, we did it that people get the credits for the course. It was very important point for moderation because as I said in the beginning, Internet Governance is not very popular topic in Russia. Mostly students are not aware of what's happening there and it was like (inaudible) for them to get credits for the counts and actually I'm very proud because even today, IGF, we have several participants from the school. In order to continue the work, just to have a school on this, we are also designing a special clock. We don't have the precise name for this, but we also aim to work with this community we have 40 people in order to keep them in the agenda, keep them on board, discuss what's happening in the Internet governance in general and locally. Several speakers and in order to take with them and discuss with them what's on the agenda and listen to them back. And also this is a kind of use capacity building too because as I said, we are mostly focusing on the use on students and on young professionals that are seeking their way into the internet governance. So this is what I want to say. Thank you so much for your attention.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you very much for the presentation. Very interesting. I think that's great. As someone who has taught in schools, I know my greatest pleasures is when I see people that I taught showing up and being the lecturers or being the person leading the session or doing something at major whether it's in the IHF or ICANN or IGF. It is really the best part of it to see them achieving. Okay. We don't have much time left, but we have some. I'd like to, you know, sort of open it up to any quick questions, comments, discussions. Glenn, I see you had your hand up for a while.
>> Hello?
>> AVRI DORIA: Let me take Glenn quickly and then I'll go to whoever it is. Did you raise your hand? No, but yeah. Okay. Your hand ‑‑
>> GLENN McNIGHT: No, no. I will pass it on to the next speaker. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thanks. Let me see. I'm looking for the hands. Who was it that was going to ‑‑
>> Hello?
>> AVRI DORIA: Yes, please. Go ahead.
>> This is Jabhera from (inaudible) Tanzania. This week, this year we conducted our Internet Governance to members of the community. And the next year, we went to a larger Internet Governance to members of Tanzania and Africa and most of them they're rural area. Do we have the localized content which we can use for such kind of school of Internet Governance because in most cases, we use the people permission group for addition 7 which sometimes have content which may not be relevant to people in the rural area who are very new to this (inaudible). Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay thank you. I'm hopefully things that have come out here will be useful. I apologize for not having followed the Q&A, but I see people have been answering it. Since I will be able to replay this before I write up the notes from the session, I'll be sure to go and capture any of the information that showed up in the Q&A and such so that it's not lost. And I really do appreciate it. And hello to the people that are sitting with you. Okay. Let me see. Is there anyone else that has comments or questions that they would like to add at this point? Any of the other panelists have some last ‑‑
>> Mary: I just want to answer the last question. The person from Tanzania. Africa has developed curriculum for, you know, that relevant to Africa when it comes to okay. Somebody has even post date it. So you can Connect to Africa and to be able to get updated and relevant curriculum for your community. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions, comments, answers, things I overlooked? Things that should be said before we finish? In which case, while looking for more questions, I'm sorry about my finger again. I have to remember to do it with this thing. It looks less offensive. Yes, Antonio, please.
>> Antonio: Thank you, thank you very much for this very interesting pleating ‑‑ meeting. I think ‑‑ so as I said in my previous question, we will operate in very rural areas as (inaudible) also mentioned that we would need to provide meaningful activities to those who are less familiar with digital technologies and the Internet governance. So I am also a delegate from the youth department of the consolate of Europe and there should be youth and youngsters for this targeted group. So to work specifically on a topic that is directed to young people and I would say also in rural areas, but not only, but also understanding this school of Internet Governance as an opportunity for young people to fully participate in the digital society. I would like to mention this today if it's reflected somehow. Because it is important that this youth perspective or any issue related to the Internet to the governance in Internet. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Certainly. We'll make a note of it. Certainly encourage you and any others to participate in our ‑‑ Glenn was nice and he said monthly meetings, but in terms of scheduling, I really only got six done during the year. But still we have our periodic meetings and it is referenced on the website. I recommend that people join it. I recommend that youth join it. And participate and, ah, you know, if there are specific projects that, you know, a group of youth want to start within the Dynamic Coalition, I'm certainly happy to facilitate it in any way I can be very distant from being (inaudible), but it would help with the Dynamic Coalition and if you need a space for the school, we can work with Rainer to figure out how to do that. So very supportive of this being a sort of bottom‑up and invite, you know, people from regions, youths, and any other specific grouping to come and start building it from the bottom‑up and see who we can bring up, bring in and how we can help. What I'm definitely trying to avoid is being top down about it and say yes. We need to have a program that is thus and here's what we've going to do. But very open and certainly an invitation. Yes, Gustavo.
>> Gustavo: Hello. You can guys hear me now?
>> AVRI DORIA: Yes, hello. Yes. Please go ahead.
>> Gustavo: This is responding to the latest comment from the representative (inaudible). I am a youth. I would just like to enforce this. I am a youth participating in the D.C for quite a while now. And it hasn't been an impediment. It is very nice and very easy for you to become integrated with D.C. and I wanted to say that really. So yeah. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you and I would take this opportunity to thank you for the amazing amount of work you have done and the amazing contribution you have made.
>> Gustavo: Just one more comment I just remembered. So we did a workshop about schools of internet governance in Brazil in the Brazilian IGF and none want points that were discussed is this came from Maria Marciel and she brought up the idea of making schools or smaller courses for specific audiences. She ‑‑ the contact she used initially was for negotiators. I think on the word economic forum, which is very far from the youth, but the principles still applies. We think it would be doable. It would be viable, not necessarily from the big schools, but in theory, it is interesting to consider perhaps a course for maybe a youth D.C or maybe for a fellow program. That's just joining an idea. So yeah. Thank you.
>> AVRI DORIA: Okay. Thanks. I would really like to see something. I have been in a lot of schools and a lot of groups of people that have talked about lease build specific courses for specific purpose. But somehow it's never yet materialized. So I think it's a great idea. Yes, Antonio.
>> ANTONIO: Sorry. Thank you very much. I would like to mention I am discovering this initiative at the moment. That's why I wanted to bring the topic of youth because I'm also as a representative of the Council of Europe. I do not mention the top sick not covered, but I am really excited with school of Internet Governance more targeted to young people. So Gustavo, it would be a pleasure to talk to you and to the Dynamic Coalition. That's from our organization in the southwest of Spain. And also from the consolate of Europe, they would be happy to contribute. I didn't mention that it's not covered. It's more than I would like to focus on our contributions to the Dynamic Coalitions.
>> GUSTAVO: Antonio, if you have a minute. Were you in the youth summit last year?
>> ANTONIO: Yes, I was.
>> GUSTAVO: I remember our talks. They were very productive and they inspired some things. So thank you.
>> ANTONIO: Thank you very much.
>> AVRI DORIA: You guys can probably through the chat mechanism make sure you exchange contact points so you can meet up. Okay. Caleb?
>> CALEB: This is Caleb. Can you hear me?
>> AVRI DORIA: Yeah.
>> CALEB: I would like to comment, but more importantly, the main issue I am trying to drive up is I would like to see how we have studies for schools on Internet governance. What do I mean by studies if we can get ‑‑ some of you are trying to walk on specific framework. We should also have specific studies and (inaudible) that can help us understand one who the targeted groups that we can in the future start focusing on aside the youths because I get to see a framework for some of the youths if they do not see ‑‑ let's say for example in Africa, if they do not see future after attending the school of Internet governance, they do not see a future in Internet Governance, they might not proceed to the income volunteer level you might want them to start pushing for issues that are related to Internet Governance. So for me, I'm just saying generate and I would like to see studies coming out from different places where we can all compare notes. I know they're working very (inaudible). I have seen some studies being an alumni thanks to Avri and (inaudible), but I would like to see some of the studies come out from other parts so that we can compare notes and know where we need to start putting more of our energy during selection processes.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. I think it's a great idea. I think we're out of time. Now what I recommend we do is because the conversations obviously have a way to build and a way to go somewhere, I will go through all our notes on this and try to put some of these topics on our meetings as we go through the year. And sometime after I have written this report and settled down from this period, I'll start a scheduling process of trying to schedule a meeting for the upcoming year and doing agendas and it would be really good to put some of the topics on so we can explore them further. This meeting is very good to print out a sent, but we don't get very far in it. Obviously really happy if you guys work together and come up with ideas to the Dynamic Coalition and then I will try and get some of this on the agenda for future meetings.
At that, I think I'm going to pass it back to Sandra. Have I missed anybody with a hand? No, I haven't. I would like to pass it back to Sandra as our chair to close up the meeting and I thank you all for participation for the pictures, for the ideas and just for being here at this time of day. So, ah, Sandra, if you're there, can I pass it back to you?
>> SANDRA: Thank you, and basically there's not much I would like to add. I'm very happy how this session went. The whole thing is so you cannot really plan. But I'm really delighted about the active participation and would like to thank in particular those who got up so early and must be so tired. So enjoy the rest of your day and enjoy the IGF and if you are not part of the network, please join us so that we can continue also throughout the year with a bigger group. I see there are so many active people around the world. Let's keep in contact and make in network more likely than it is already. With this and since we are also both time already, I would like to adjourn this meeting.
>> AVRI DORIA: Thank you. And thank you very much to the IGF 2020 hosts and co‑hosts who basically put up with our sort of immersion of panelists and all. So thank you, hosts. Thank you IGF. Bye‑bye.