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FINISHED - 2014 09 05 - Capacity Building Roundtable - Room 9
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The following is the output of the real‑time captioning taken during the IGF 2014 Istanbul, Turkey, meetings.  Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.  It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.


So the reason for gathering here was as we started last year discussing in MAG to try to have at every IGF ‑‑ for newcomers and a Capacity Building Roundtable.  This year we almost slipped it out and almost left without it.  And I think the idea is just to try to gather people who are doing capacity building.  Last year we had 20 or so people in the room.  And it was amazing.  I hope some more will show.  And if not, we can try to catch them around.  There is so many different programmes around. 

Last year I think we had some in India about cybersecurity and some in Africa about infrastructure.  It is important to try to map what we have, different target groups and try to make the whole picture what we have.  So what I thought maybe we can discuss today, we don't have to meet each other, I think we know more or less each other, right?  But what I thought that we can do is just go through my idea but you add, please, is the evolution of orientation sessions and capacity building track.  Is there anything else that we can do for the IGF.  And the other one is where we are with the capacity building initiatives.  Who is doing what.  Briefly so we catch up.  And how can we make it more prominent within the IGF. 

At the IGF website there is one part of the website devoted to capacity building, but so far there is a list of e‑learning for UNDESA.  Friends are working on the website.  And we discuss with them that there ‑‑ we might have a kind of review of materials, library of materials, resources, library of programmes, capacity building trainings that exist so that people can follow and join when they wish.  These are the two things, orientation and the second one what we are doing and how we can boost more about capacity building around the IGF.  Anyone else has an idea?  Just introduce yourself for the sake of the transcript. 

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  This is Olga Cavalli.  I don't know everyone in the room.  Maybe we can just start and then you talk about what you said.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thanks.  So we go to the right.  My name is Vladimir Radunovic.  I am with the DiploFoundation and we have a capacity building programme in Internet Governance.  And some areas of Internet Governance specific ones, combination of online, we work mostly in Developing Countries and that's basically it.  Judy. 

>> JUDITH OKITE:  My name is Judy Okite from FOSSFA.

>> FATIMA CAMBRONERO:  My name is Fatima Cambronero from Argentina.  I am MAG member.  I was ‑‑ I am member of the capacity building track of the MAG.  And I am a Civil Society representative.  I belong to the AGEI DENSI Argentina. 

>> MAKANE FAYE:  My name is Makane Faye from the UN Economic Commission for Africa. 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  Hello everyone.  Hello everyone.  My name is Veronica.  I come from Moldova.  And in Moldova I ran a participatory democracy and both online and offline tools, engaging citizens in decision making process and also member of MAG representing Civil Society and involved in the open Government agenda globally.  Thank you. 

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  Hi.  My name is Olga Cavalli.  And I am a MAG member and I work for ‑‑ I am advisor to the Government of Argentina, but at the same time I am the University teacher at University of Buenos Aires.  We have created some training programmes in Latin America.  And we have programmes online and recently we are involved in some capacity building for women engineers.  And I will stop here.  Maybe I can tell you about that later. 

>> ADRIAN CARBALLO:  My name is Adrian Carballo, the South School of Internet Governance. 

>> ALIHUSAIN‑DEL CASTILHO:  I am Alihusain‑del Castilho from Suriname.  I am a MAG member and I have done a lot with Diplo and I am very much involved, interested in capacity building. 

>> MICHAEL DALY:  My name is Michael Daly.  I am a dirty filthy registrar.  Registrar and hosting provider from Ireland.  And since I am here for IGF and this is the only session on the schedule at the moment I thought I would come in just to see what the hell you were all talking about. 

>> TEREZA HOREJSOVA:  Tereza Horejsova from the DiploFoundation working in the Geneva office. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you all.  Rose, can you take a microphone and present yourself very quickly? 

>> IFFAT ROSE GILL:  My name is Iffat Rose Gill and I represent an organisation called ChunriChoupaal.  And I work for Digital Empowerment of Women in rural Pakistan.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  Okay.  So let's run quickly maybe through the first piece of the agenda which is the capacity building track on the IGF.  So this we are ‑‑ we had the orientation session again.  It was one day with normal times, starting 9:30, one and a half hours.  The room was quite packed.  It seems like most reflections were quite positive.  Before we had innovation we had webinars.  We had one for Latin America, Africa.  We had two for Africa, French and English and the Latin American one was Spanish.  And we had also an Asia‑Pacific one.  And besides your orientation we had marked the capacity like workshops at the IGF.  There are a lot of places for improvements.  Let's start maybe with webinars briefly.  What are your ‑‑ some of my comments would be that while we manage to do it this time I think we did manage to bring people which are new to the IGF to the large extent, at least that was my impression.  So that might be improving more to try to outreach people even if they don't show up to the IGF, but at least they hear about the IGF for the first time and have an idea what it is.  Any other ideas about before the IGF steps or how to improve the webinar?  Maybe two of you since you were running the two webinars just briefly reflect on that.  Judy.

>> JUDITH OKITE:  Thank you, Vladimir.  My name is Judy.  We ran two webinars in Africa, the west ‑‑ sorry, French and the English versions.  I think what came out was people did not understand exactly why we were having the webinars.  So instead of discussing the agenda people were interested with funding and how do I get to the main IGF.  So yes, I think it will be important that before the IGF we have the webinars to educate the society and let them know what the IGF is all about.  Let them know more about the remote participation and they don't have to be there in person, and any funding opportunities, make it available for them, that knowledge available for them.  And we could do this, we could follow it up even with other national IGF, with a regional IGF.  Let them know what is happening, because you come to realise that even when you come to the bigger IGF you meet people who are from a certain region but never really participated within their regional IGF.  And it is very easy for them to say that there is no regional IGF where I come from.  Yeah.  So that would be my point No. 1. 

My point No. 2 would be maybe to bring it down to those who have never attended.  The way we always do it for orientation session like if it is your first time in the IGF, then please join us for the webinar and maybe there are two, three sessions and break it down.  Because I mean when we had more topics, then it is difficult to run around all of them quickly because these are new people.  So I think breaking them down maybe to three.  The first session you could talk about the process and the actors and let them understand who these are and let them ask all the questions.  We could have a mailing list where we could keep their conversation going.  And then the second session probably a month later and going on like that.  Thank you. 


>> FATIMA CAMBRONERO:  Thank you.  In the region of Latin America and Caribbean we had one webinar in Spanish and we had around 50 participants in the webinar.  In the webinar participate some colleagues from Latin American and Caribbean, like Olga and Karina and ‑‑ and Sherry also participate.  And the ‑‑ to improve for next year we can organise more than one pre‑webinar and normally in Spanish but also in English.  They are the two main languages in our region.  And also we had a short time to organise the prewebinar before the LAC IGF.  And another point to improve for next year is more time to anticipation of the LAC IGF and the IGF.  Thank you. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  This is a good comment also with relation to linking it with the regional IGFs.  So we would be good if even before the regional IGFs we can do the webinar.  This year was tight.  Anyone who participated or wanted to jump in with suggestions about the webinars about how to improve?  You were also in the webinar.

>> ALIHUSAIN‑DEL CASTILHO:  I agree with what Judy and Fatima brought forth.  We have a very specific issue and that is language.  The language is usually a threshold for people because it is either English or Spanish and our language is Dutch.  In the choose of language, and I understand that we cannot accommodate all languages, of course, but a means that maybe we could also look in to having some way of setup that we answer them, translated somehow again back to Dutch just to involve more people.  Because my personal experience is I invite people to participate.  I tell them it is open and they are interested, but when they hear it is English, I don't even talk about Spanish ‑‑ when they hear Spanish, then not at all.  But when they hear English you already get part of the group ‑‑ they find some excuse not to be there because they think they won't be able to fully participate.  So that is one issue. 

    And then I think about informing the people what it is all about, many people don't even know what Internet Governance means.  They ‑‑ just this year I had this Article published in the paper.  For the first time they heard about what the IGF really is.  So we have to build that up.  I think as MAG members also in our countries we have to ‑‑ we have to put more emphasis on letting people know as already said and what it means and they can be involved in discussing what happens with the Internet.  And they don't just have to allow to happen to them.  They can influence decisions by just participating. 

So that is another thing.  And then the remote participation, we also try to set up some ‑‑ the agencies to do that for us but we often ‑‑ last year we had Bali which was an hour difference and this year it is a six hour difference.  By the time we start talking here it is still midnight.  And that's why at the last minute they decided not to do that.  We have to consider time differences.  I see this year there is options of watching it afterwards but you can't send questions.  Maybe answering them later or taking them to the main, final session and discussing them there.  And I hope I am not talking too long but I have a list. 

And another thing I was thinking about is the organizing of the workshops.  There is a call from MAG early on that people submit their ideas and so on.  But when ‑‑ many people I think they are challenged by the fact that they feel it is a very complex process.  And if they have never done it before and they don't know high level speakers where will they start.  So maybe it would be an idea if we would dedicate some time on that information.  Step by step kind of guide how do you organise it and assistance in contacting the right speakers.  Because oftentimes I think there an ideas floating around but people are afraid to bring it forward because they are afraid they won't be able to finish the work.  That's on the workshop. 

And then, of course, let me see, yes.  And then on the same thing goes for setting up a local IGF.  I know there is people in Suriname who wants to start a national IGF but they are still not sure how to do it.  So they still feel like they don't have enough information and they don't know how to ‑‑ where to start.  So that would also be helpful.  Thank you. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  Quite a number of good proposals.  When it comes to the process before the IGF, you mention awareness either through Articles but also maybe through blogs.  And we discuss it with the IGF Secretariat or the friends of IGF that we open an awareness building blog on the website, either of the two where we might contribute in different languages and try to occasionally update.

>> ALIHUSAIN‑DEL CASTILHO:  This Article was actually result of the blog that Janis started.  And then I used that, translated it to Dutch and I made it in to an Article and I made it specific to the questions I know were in Suriname itself.  It was very specific for them.  So it was based on the blog of Janis. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  So it is a two‑way communication.  Good idea.  Okay.  Any other comments on ‑‑ yeah, before. 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  Thanks.  A couple of reflections based on the kind of experiences we have had in Moldova in our attempts to participate remotely in different events such as EuroDIG, IGF or even NETmundial.  I think the biggest challenge is you mentioned is the time difference.  We used to organise meetings within the country a week or a couple of weeks before the event.  It was much easier to mobilize representatives of the Government, of the Civil Society, of academia to come and participate.  You have to address a very particular issue to be interested in.  There should be a problem that people are keen on.  They are looking for solutions.  And this is the only motif that will bring them to that particular discussion.  As long as it is the kind of general blah blah blah thing about what Internet Governance is, believe me this doesn't work.  So I think before the IGF there is a whole range of things that could be done. 

    Organizing or mobilizing participants who are interested stakeholders around some thematic areas, around some problem, around some issues and there might be chances for people to be able to gather, you know, regionally but even globally around those problems, around those issues and we might have more chances to get them more actively engaged in those preIGF webinars.  Once you have that kind of activity back, you know, in the region or in a particular country, there has to be a mechanism for input that is being generated out of those discussions to be reflected in the IGF itself.  If there is not that mechanism as I mentioned, Tereza was there the other day in the Diplo session, if there is no feedback on feedback mechanism, people will not be engaged.  They will not participate.  Having a post event kind of interaction it is useless because there will be nobody to pick up on those comments or on those questions.  It is gone. 

    So you have to gain the momentum and actually build and construct and codesign the IGF with input from, you know, from within the countries.  I think this is one very important element. 

    And another ‑‑ I don't know if we are going to address separately the orientation session that we had.  If that's a separate issue, then that's something I will comment on later.  But just to conclude on this issue, there is a great potential to do something more constructive before the events.  Remote participation is great, is good.  It has to be more interactive, more participatory, but if you want to bring input from within the countries, I don't know, maybe some incentivize, provide some like ‑‑ with NETmundial our Minister of ICT engaged so actively in the preNETmundial event we had a couple of days before it took place in Brazil, but input from discussion, I don't know whether it reached to somewhere, and when they were asking about okay, so where did the comments from Moldova go, there was nothing I could comment back.  I don't know if next time they will be so eager to, you know, provide space and organise that.  So again feedback on ‑‑ feedback mechanism is really crucial and organise discussions around very specific issues, very specific either local or regional problems I think this is the way forward.  Thank you. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  If I try to summarize it practically, that means running the remote hubs, the local run but before the events national, regional or IGF and even before the webinar they can crystallize main policy questions.  And even if it is not the same time zone then they can see later when they get their response which is in a ‑‑ which brings us to connection with remote participation hubs, procedure of them along the process.  But then also organizing the national events to help, this is a link with national IGFs.  So we might try within MAG to somehow link the groups that are working on national IGFs.  No one is working the participation unfortunately, but that's something we can do so we assure this feedback back and forth, is that ‑‑

>> VERONICA CRETU:  Yes, and one more element I think it is important that whatever input is coming has been generated, it is being shared with all the Moderators and even speakers of the event because they ‑‑ what you would like to see if you follow remotely and you had an event in your country around that particular issue and you sit there in the room and you watch online, you would like to hear, you know, that somebody mentions your country, mentions the problem that has been addressed, mentions the challenges that are being faced and addresses that particular question to whoever is on the panel.  It is good to have panelists that come with preready presentations.  And it is valuable to get their insight on how they see addressing those particular challenges within those particular regions.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Any more comments for preIGF capacity activities, suggestions, comments? 

>> MAKANE FAYE:  Yes.  I am Makane.  Yes, I think we had some problems on connecting to the webinar in general whatever it was.  So the first workshop I did I recall using three different computers and none had ‑‑ was able to connect.  So I don't know what was the issue.  The second one I managed to connect, but I know that there are some colleagues also who are in some places which could not connect also to be able to follow up.  So that is a technical problem which we may need to fix for next time. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  Actually know the problem, has a problem with WebEx and with sometimes the settings in the computer and especially with the officials in the diplomatic services which have firewalls and stuff and you are totally right, there needs to be a way forward.  There is sometimes because we have been using the WebEx platform which is IGF's platform and sometimes it doesn't work on some computers.  There is a platform and so on but costs.  This is something we have to go around and maybe even a technical support team or something like that.  So well noted, right?  Any other comments on that or should we move to the orientation session? 

>> FATIMA CAMBRONERO:  Just a brief comment related to the guys, how organised the workshop or come participate remotely, we can think about the creation of videos, short videos with instruction to the participants.  Maybe visual tools that can help to some people.  Some idea to discuss. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  Okay.  Yep. 

>> IFFAT ROSE GILL:  I would like to just add one comment.  Assuming we are talking here about reaching new audiences for IGF as well, so I think I would like to stress on the point that we really ‑‑ it is really needed, the need is that the topics or the themes that there are ‑‑ they really need to resonate with the local audience and that can only be generated through local mobilization on a very local level.  If it resonates to them there will be more ‑‑ of course, there will be more participation.  And we will see more activity like Veronica said, it is I think a good idea that the sensitization starts before the IGF on what the locals think. 

I would like to share an example here.  I was speaking about women issues related to Internet and technology, how it is empowering them.  I was sharing my experience from Pakistan, and in my session there were young women from Turkey and they walk up to me later and they say wow, we have the same issues in Turkey as far as women empowerment is concerned and how they are not exactly allowed to use the technology as they should be as is everyone's right.  So she asked me how can we counter the problem, and I said well, locally every culture is different.  So the local people and activists they are the ones who have to take the initiative and they are the ones who need to come forward and get the people together and start a debate about it.  That was my comment.  Thank you. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  This is really valuable, because one of the dilemmas that I can see, for instance, if we do webinars we can't do 10,000 webinars.  We should do two or three.  If we focus on process and actors, that's the easiest thing to do.  If you go in to issues that takes time.  There is so many issues.  It is easier to explain what IGF is and why it is important and how to participate.  Your comment fits very well.  You can't get people with talking about IGF because they don't care.  So they have to start motivating them to listen, by telling them listen, someone else has the same problems like you.  Still something we still need to discuss how ‑‑ what comes first huh? 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  One final comment on this, I think we in IGF we have to have a very well consolidated outreach strategy.  Without a well positioned outreach strategy we are not going to get too far beyond our comfort zone as a broad IGF community.  And in doing so I think we should be thinking about how IGF becomes serving other international multi‑stakeholder initiatives and provide solutions.  Motivate others to join and understand how any education related issues can be approached through whatever we are discussing or sharing within IGF or business sector related issues.  So I think as long as we are not positioned as a platform that provides solutions for the other sectors, education, Government, you know, health, tourism and any other sector outside the ICT itself.  We are not going to survive for too many years.  I'm just being very, very pragmatic in this sense.  Thank you. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thanks.  Well, this brings up a whole new topic which we are probably not going to go in to now, the outreach, but it is very important and we should bring it up in front of MAG.  But now I see that my microphone there is a MAG.  I don't know why.  So I think we should bring it to MAG.  That's a simple issue and capacity building.  Judy.

>> JUDITH OKITE:  Thank you.  Just to add on what Makane was talking about, before the prewebinars we need to educate people how to use the platform themselves.  I think we approach them, they all know how to use it.  We gave links and please log in and meet there and see you there.  You find as much as they had the connection issue, some of them did not know how to use the platform. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  It is even more than that.  I realise that many people do not know what webinar means.  When you say that webinar, they say okay.  Should we move ‑‑ I took some notes.  If any one of us is also taking notes just share it and try to summarize.  Should we move on to our orientation session?  Brief feedbacks.  Okay, I can start.  My general feedback is this time much better timing.  Full room of people.  We might have had more time maybe than one and a half hours.  We weren't that interactive as I hoped we would be, but then again people approached me even though they were not here for the first time and said it was very pressure to recapitulate what IGF was.  We had some overlap with the second part which was setting the scene.  They were not happy with how it went.  So we might see how to link the two better to cover both processes, practical guiding how to use IGF and issues.  Rose.

>> IFFAT ROSE GILL:  I would like to just bring one question to the Forum.  We are talking about webinars.  I would like to know or I think, I don't know if you have done the assessment, but I am really interested in knowing that webinar, this tool or methodology is suitable for the audience we are trying to reach here? 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Good point.  We should try to do in the future assessment or an evaluation of what people thought of the webinar.  Was it useful or not.  And what other tools.  And what Alex mentioned, the Articles, newspaper, that time people don't even use blogs, right?  To Governments and so on.  So we should probably try to switch to balance the old media, new media awareness and local hubs and stuff, but that's a good point.  Who do we reach with that.  Angelique.

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  I would like to agree with Rose and other comments and what Judy said.  We are very much accustomed to use Wikis, webinars, the people that we want to reach they don't.  So the idea of the Article is great.  Also Fatima translated in to Spanish which is great.  Maybe we should use more the events and conferences that are around and give a short talk.  It doesn't have to be long or just to go to the point that there is a space where you can participate and have a say about the future of the Internet.  Webinar is fine, but also with people that it is somehow involved with technology, I try to introduce with my students a Wiki and they are young.  They are people of middle class in Argentina and they go what is a Wiki.  Half of them they didn't know.  And I am having difficulties in them accessing the platform which is a website with a password and a user name.  So we are trying to reach people that don't know.  So we should be more straightforward and basic and with other more usual ways of communication like newspapers or other conferences.  Maybe adding to the webinar. 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  I think this goes well in to profile or list of responsibilities of a MAG member, consist of.  How do you really spread the word about what IGF is?  And how do you take advantage of the position you have?  And really use the other spaces to share.  I think that one of the roles of the MAG members would be to take advantage of the other fora and really spread the word that this has to be in the responsibilities of the MAG. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  That's also an important question because there is a lot of work to be done here.  So it is a question who is going to do it and probably the MAG working group.  Some question, how many of you will stay in MAG, if you know, will apply to stay in MAG next year?  It is my third mandate.  I am going out. 

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  I don't know.  It defends on the Government. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Two of you are staying.  I mean you will reapply.  Sorry? 

>> (Off microphone).

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  So you are also out.  Vicki, you are not?  Is it also?  Gosh that's not good. 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  Put all the things on the table. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  I guess none of us is going to disappear from the support to MAG but it is going to be much harder.  We need some new people that want to help that. 

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  The MAG is quite open.  There was a time when we were talking in locked doors.  Now we have a list with people that is MAG or nonmembers or former MAG members.  So I think we will be there somehow. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  No.  Sort of psychological pressure when you know you are in MAG you know you have to do it, but not I cannot drag it along.  I agree. 

>> JUDITH OKITE:  I think we have to push the idea of the mentorship between the MAG members, between the old MAG members and new MAG members.  This is my second year as a MAG member.  And just in this case I am feeling a little useful in the MAG.  It is very complicated, yes. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  To really suggest to the mandate if a MAG member can go to five years but we are only going to do that when we are out, I think, and probably we can link up on the existing capacity building Working Group.  So basically even if we are out of MAG I guess capacity building Working Group which we basically founded and pushed for can go on.  And we can be there and try to assist the new ones and try to bring new MAG members in.  Time is running.  So let's devote maybe another 10 or 15 minutes to the capacity building track at the IGF orientation session.  And then we move to initiatives that we do.  Orientation session, some comments. 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  Thank you.  Sorry.  First of all, thank you for, you know, accepting me or delegating me the task to co‑moderate the session together with Vlad.  There were several positive feedback coming out of the session, the way that several people approached and said it was very useful, especially newcomers who were for the first time.  They were very frank and very open and friendly and sharing this has been really valuable.  And now they have a more or less clear picture of what IGF is all about and how they should really engage and where to go and what to do during the event.  However I think that for improving the session one of the things that I would change or I would do differently next year, for example, we have to depart from the idea that whoever comes in to the room is not everyone is a policymaker.  We have practitioners and Civil Society representatives.  We have a broad spectrum of people doing different kind of things.  So in line with this I think the setting of the room has to be changed.  It has to provide more open space for people to engage around those particular issues they are keen to learn more about. 

For example, just to give an example imagine, you know, the gallery tour thing, there is a technique which is you have corners, have people sitting around tables, round tables in the room and at that particular table you have one expert.  Jovan brings in his laptop, the images and those cool stuff that we had, you know, at Diplo, have been using at Diplo for so many years, the visual things about how IGF started, where it started from and what does it look like today.  And everyone who wishes to learn about that approaches Jovan and anyone who wishes to learn to find out about best practice goes to Subi and anybody who is interested ‑‑ so you give each round like 10 minutes, 12 minutes maximum.  And then they rotate and then they move to another table. 

So I think in this way people could be more ‑‑ I mean we bring this concept set of open space and interaction.  We all hear those words but we don't see how they practically work at IGF and, you know, exposing them to a new format, a new way they could interact and address those questions.  They are keen to hear answers on because even if we tried to get their input and what motivated them to come, ask them to answer those questions they would like to ask, I mean there was still limited space for everyone else to engage.  There were few people and we have to be realistic, not everyone feels comfortable to pick up the mic and talk.  We are aiming to a participatory centre in IGF.  We have to change the way that sessions are organised.  And maybe one of the starting points would be from the orientation session and show how that can really look in practice.  So this might be one of the things to think about in the future for the orientation sessions.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thanks.  If you remember we did try to suggest some kind of bazar last year and the problems were practical and ‑‑ but let's try to push.  I think this is a ‑‑ this would be a breakthrough, like a couple of tables where people can choose a topic and feel more comfortable.  And the problem is the layout of the room.  We cannot take a main session.  We can rearrange a main session room and that's always a problem.  And if we don't have a main session room it is a different feeling.  This year obviously we had it because ‑‑ full room because it was a main session.  So the layout is one problem, but we can play around it. 

The second problem is translation, the transcription and remote participation, right?  Problem is timing because such a thing needs more than one and a half hours.  So these are all very, very good suggestions.  I am just not sure how it is going to resonate among the IGF Secretariat in the host country but it depends on us if we manage to push it through.  This year we hardly pushed through the whole thing.  We had to repeat again we need orientation session and we need Roundtable.  It depends on new MAG members, how they push it, and I think we should put it in comments this is a suggestion.  It could be a special, devoted place in IGF where the capacity building is taking place, maybe later on some Q and As.  I don't know.  Some place for experts where experts are going to sit about topics and people can come any time to ask a question.  It is a good food for thought.

>> VERONICA CRETU:  Another idea.  If this is not possible because of the arrangement of the setting of the room, you take main hall but also this idea of open spaces, festival area.  And if you manage to have a nice corner somewhere in one of the halls with a microphone, with a stage, with nice comfortable, you know, mini armchairs, color things, some coffee and tea around then you can have it.  And I am talking from a very practical experience of having done something like this within the open Government partnership.  And it works.  It is absolutely amazing.  And it can just break all the stereotypes about how does a conference look like.  Would be more than happy to write in details what could be done and how those things could be improved.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  I am ‑‑ Chengetai won't be happy to hear we need another space but I am sorry, that's a good way around, yeah.  I think so.  

>> JUDITH OKITE:  Thank you.  Some of the comments that I wanted to make Veronica has already made them, and because one of them was about creating confidence among the people who are coming.  She had said when you get in to MAG year one you try to get yourself around.  You try to find out who is who, who do I ask what.  Year two and that goes on.  So the same happens with these newcomers who come to the IGF.  They are all this crowd of people and oh, Judy knows Olga and Veronica and everywhere I go it is hi, hi and this person has never been here.  It is that fear that everyone knows everyone here.  But if we could have that small table, I think we did that in Baku, the orientation session where we had the small tables technical people and private sector and someone would move from table to table.  It is easier when they talk to you on a face to face and then also encourage that we look for new guys.  Almost everyone knows Jovan.  I don't have a problem with him.  But let's look for a new name, a name they have not seen before.  So it will create some interest.  Even someone who has been there for the first time they are okay, I haven't heard of this one.  Let me go and hear what it is. 

And lastly well, Veronica is talking about a big space.  Let me talk about the small space.  If we could have a stand booth orientation session that after that we have this small ‑‑ that describes what IGF is, who is who.  These are the capacity building sessions that would be going on because that's where we are really focusing on, and we constantly have somebody there on that table that whoever gets there then they can always find someone, some kind of a feedback.  Thank you. 

>> FATIMA CAMBRONERO:  For me this year was positive having only one day for orientation session, and at that time not so early in the morning because this year didn't work.  And I think we need more time because we need to create more interactive session as Veronica said, maybe two hours and was positive having interpretation in the session this year and was negative that some people has the microphone a lot of time and a long time and several times.  Maybe then I can say the name of the people.  Off the record. 

    And for me it is lack of interest of the MAG members in the orientation sessions.  There was a few MAG members in the orientation session.  Maybe this is a positive thing.  And I think this is now ‑‑ this is all for now. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  Well, I think this idea of kind of a capacity building bazar place can really run and we can have time slots for certain experts who will be around. 

>> ALIHUSAIN‑DEL CASTILHO:  Okay.  I love the coffee and tea and cake.  But I think compared to the orientation session from last year I was highly satisfied with the attendance and I felt that there was a genuine, you know, try to get people more involved to make it more interactive, especially at the beginning when questions were posed to the audience.  And I think if we have to keep this setting, then we have to do more of that or we have to ‑‑ we could collect in advance statements from the different stakeholder groups, from their representatives and then we put that statement out and see how people react to it.  So you get people to get up and speak.  But if we could do ‑‑ I really like the idea Veronica proposed of the small tables where people sit down and I don't know how practical it would work, but it would be that you could have, you know, a rotating mic for the people who are remotely participating.  So you tell them upfront that you move from table to table and then they can put their questions.  So that you can still do that.  And then the ‑‑ I think also there is people who are there who are for the first time here and they want to contribute, but they don't know how and they don't know through who.  And all our panels are already set in stone. 

And maybe it would be possible if we would have some flexibility in panels that there is one space left for somebody who volunteers during the orientation session to make a contribution in a panel.  So people become involved because it is through what Veronica said and Judy when you come here for the first time you know nobody and you fell left out and you feel you are not allowed to contribute.  And you sit and listen and a lot of people once you involve them they stay involved because then it lives with them and for them.  

I would suggest if we could look in to that.  And then the booth, I really feel for the booth but also on the practical side because maybe if you have extra adapters there and some people because we are here with a lot stuff and people forget things but I miss that here.  There is no place where you can get the practical things that help you function, you know, and using all our IT tools.  So if we could have ‑‑ if have that booth then you also put some practical side to it. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Why did we move to the main session room for the first place was the Governments.  Because if you want Governments they are not going to sit in ‑‑ so probably we need a combination or two.  We need some kind of what we had this year as a beginning, but the room is full and it is maybe more of ‑‑ more interactivity but also have a space where there is another session which doesn't occupy the main room and throughout the event we have everything.  I don't know if that is something that flies. 

>> JUDITH OKITE:  I wanted to comment.  When you move people from one room to another there is a tendency of losing them, if you say we continue this in room 3.  Before I start finding room 3 I find something else to do or get lost or I go for coffee.  Just like the main room looked like this year.  If the next main room would look like that, there was pretty a lot of space on the sides.  We could put tables on the side, that after the main introduction of the actors and all that then people can move to those tables.  We can have them mapped like that.  I don't know.  Yeah. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Try chengetai.igfsecretariat. 


>> VERONICA CRETU:  Veronica speaking.  Very few comments.  If the session format is to be kept as it was this time I think it is valuable.  And you notice we had a little bit of waiting time before we started.  So I think we should explore on this time before we really start the session and engage in an informal way with people in the room.  You can have some, I don't know, flip charts on the walls.  You can give them some colorful papers with pen and pencils to write down why they are here in the room, what their expectations are from the IGF.  This is their first IGF.  I mean to get them busy with starting thinking about what they are doing here at IGF and, you know, at this particular session.  So I think exploring on this time before the session starts is really crucial.  And there was another thing, another idea that popped in my mind yesterday in talking to one of the newcomers who was from Uganda.  He approached me.  Yesterday he stops me in the hall and asks me, okay, I participated in IGF and tomorrow is the last day.  Where to start from when I go back home.  So this kind of made me think that it might be valuable to have a kind of post or follow‑up orientation session, follow‑up of the orientation session and they will, the newcomers, there will be a space during the last day of IGF where they can meet and share whatever reflections they have.  And if they have questions about how they can take forward whatever they learned here, whom should they go and talk to when they go home.  Is it the Civil Society.  Is it the Government.  I mean ‑‑ because people feel like they are lost.  Yes.  I am impressed.  It is super and it is great, but where do I start from when I go back home.  I was thinking whether or not there might be some value in creating this kind of space for people who have questions at the end of the IGF.  Thank you. 

>> IFFAT ROSE GILL:  I would like to build up on what Angelique said here, how we can get more people to participate.  Before I was involved in the non‑profit sector but now mostly working with the commercial sector.  So I am going to give a suggestion, not too far out probably, but something like food for thought, I would like to stress on the fact that if stories of the speaker is resonating with the audience the audience will speak.  I think maybe as MAG members also focus on okay, the speakers, we are getting what is their approach.  Yeah, I know not everyone is comfortable with public speaking maybe.  But still there could be some simple things the speaker could do in how they start their or how they present their story or presentation.  And that would also help in making it more interactive.  I think we really also need to focus on the story telling aspect of the presentations that are going on. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thanks.  Well, this morning we had a debate session, was very valuable to have a person with expert in debating and public speaking to tell us listen, this is not the way to put the things.  You have to emphasize this way or focus this way.  So that really attracts the attention and drives the discussion. 

>> MICHAEL DALY:  Thanks.  I had no intention of opening my mouth during this session but it kind of happened anyway.  This is the first time I have come to an IGF.  I have been attending ICANN, RIPE, various others things for several years, possibly too long.  And I come away after about a week here with a few reflections.  And it goes to I think what you are talking about here which is kind of participation and everything else.  The content of the ‑‑ at the meeting is fantastic.  It is fascinating and very good and you have got some fantastic speakers, but some basic things are completely screwed up.  There are panels with far too many speakers.  You have got 90 minutes and you have got 15 speakers.  That's nuts.  I don't know who decides on these things but it really needs to be fixed.  Having 15 speakers on a panel is not workable and it is totally pointless.  If you are sitting in the audience, great.  They could have sent me their slide decks because they would have been more informative. 

It is almost impossible to work out half the time who the hell is speaking because a lot of speakers never introduce themselves or if they do they say it so quickly and so incoherently that if you blink you miss it.  If the panels are organised in advance, would it be that hard to print the speakers name on a piece of paper or something?  Because I have walked in to sessions and there have been people speaking on the stage.  I have absolutely no idea who the hell they are and where they are coming from.  And it could be somebody I have been playing e‑mail ping pong with over the last ten years and I wouldn't know.  The name badges here are tiny and you have no hope in hell when you are walking down the corridor who the hell they are. 

In terms of remote participation the WiFi completely broke that.  One of the sessions I was involved with on Monday or Tuesday, sorry, with several of the ICANN community were trying to follow the session from various parts of the globe.  So they got up at 3, 4 in the morning to try to follow the session and couldn't because everything was going over the WiFi and the WiFi was completely, well, broken.  Thanks. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  Well, I mean firstly I will encourage you to after lunch go to the main session where there is an open microphone and please repeat all of that.  We will convey it, but please repeat all of that.  I mean it is a couple of us in the MAG and I think for like two or three years we have been fighting hard for less people speakers at panels as possible, and it was always like let's do an open session with no speakers but we have to have a keynote speaker.  Let's have a keynote speaker.  I think this one is better.  This one is VIP.  So now we have three and we have five and we always end up with 20.  And I think this is something that the capacity building group should push as well.  I totally agree.  And we have been trying and those people really know the matter, and they should be speaking and a couple of times said we don't need names.  We want open discussion.  No more than six people.  No more than two minute interventions.  Not always goes through.  I think we share the same concern.  We will tell it once again, but please repeat it at the open mic session after lunch.

>> IFFAT ROSE GILL:  It would be great if the MAG members or whoever filters the speakers, if they could ask them maybe next time like other conferences do if they have a link to their previous presentations or recording or something like that.  So you can assess how they speak and if the audience falls asleep within five minutes or not.  I think that's very important.  Thank you. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Good point.  Should we wrap up this part on the capacity building track or basically besides we had capacity building sessions but that's something that went on this time as well marking the sessions which are capacity building related.  And if we have some kind of a bazar, this could also be promoted and so on and I think this could work.  And this Roundtable we need to work more, this time we almost finished without this Roundtable.  I think it is precious to have it.  Even announce wider not only us talking about the capacity building track but also really exchanging experiences, right?  Any other questions on or should we move on?  If there are no other questions or comments on that, let's move on on how do we promote more as we would say Intersessional work capacity building programmes between the IGF, IGF ‑‑ not linked to the IGF?  All the institutions, organisations.  And last year we had ten organisations which were there and individuals sharing what they do.  We agreed that we are going to put up a list, a form which everyone is going to fill in and try to post on the websites.  So we have a couple of materials, what programmes exist.  And unfortunately no one took a lead.  And I am guilty of that because I didn't.  We thought maybe the Secretariat would.  We are not sure how it goes.  UNDESA wanted to take a lead.  There is space at the IGF website. 

Maybe we can just very quickly go round if someone wants to share what are the new things that we do those of us that do capacity building just to update ourselves and maybe with we have heard that's happening.  And then how do we push coordination among ourselves and maybe, yeah, visibility of these programmes within the IGF.  So people know within the IGFs there are programmes they can take on at a national level.  Olga, you wanted to share bits and pieces of your new focus and programmes. 

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  Thank you.  Well, the school is running again this year in Costa Rica in April.  We have trained so far more than 650 professionals and, of course, one main focus of the training is IGF and ICANN.  And they receive fellowships, all of them.  And it is important to know that there are people that don't know.  They know after they say oh, I didn't know that you grant fellowship.  We have to apply.  More visibility.  ISOC, what we do is needed, because after the people come and regret that they didn't know at that time.  So the school that you already know is still moving on since 2012 we have remote participation with channels in English and Spanish.  It is not only limited to those that receive the grant.  You can also do it online and in some sessions we had very high.  It depends ‑‑ it is a long programme, five days, full day.  Some sessions are highly attended but it is available and it is expensive as a translation.  It should be more promoted. 

Now we have also with the same organisation, a not‑for‑profit organisation that organises the school.  We have online training programme in English and Spanish.  It is not simultaneous, and then we have training sessions one per week in seven session scheme.  So that is more for professionals.  Maybe for Government officials.  We are starting with that. 

And now in September, we do it every two months, also after the people know oh, yeah, that's interesting but I didn't know that you had developed such a programme or they come to the IGF and they say I don't know nothing, but you have the ISOC training and you have Diplo training and School of Internet Governance, I didn't know.  We should promote more the programmes that we have.  And now we are working, this is more work that I do in Argentina with the National Center of Engineers and this ‑‑ we have partnered with UNESCO.  It is for promoting the engineering career among women.  Of course, as I am leading that I will do some bias towards Internet Governance and the role of the Internet and training in the Internet in the programme.  I'm trying to see how to do that.  We want to develop some materials for young girls.  We think there's a working opportunity there.  Well paid work and highly demanded and with an international visibility and work in any country that you want.  So I will stop here.  And this is what we have been working on. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thank you.  It is real precious to know and that should be in the form that we pass around.  And you mention about the IGF and ICANN issues, what are the target groups.  One said Government.  One said girls.  Just try to outline that for all the programmes so we know where regionally, geographically it is taking place.  These are the things that we should collect.  Anyone else want to share some capacity building work?  I can maybe very briefly for Diplo trying to bring the professionals in Geneva to Internet Governance.  Occasional meetings in Geneva but ‑‑ the webinars are open for everyone around the world.  Trying to target interface missions and so on.  Focus to bring them in the process.  And there are a couple of other initiatives, like the cybersecurity programme for West Balkans and some capacity building region mostly online and so on around the world, but that's more or less it.  So we will also try to bring a couple of updates in the table that we provide.  Anyone else wants to share or you have any ideas how can we boost the visibility further of these kinds of programmes? 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  I just wanted to share about the kind of efforts we have back in Moldova as a Non‑Governmental Organisation, having to deliver informal capacity building to the representatives of the government.  So we have an agreement with the Ministry that at least once in three, four months the Government organizes a workshop to update the chief of the department about the IG related issues, what's on the broader global agenda.  We coordinate a Civil Society Working Group on eGovernment.  And as part of that we also address the Internet Governance.  So it is for the Civil Society.  Whenever we have our working meetings we share updates.  This is to share with you how you can still build the capacity back in your home countries without having huge resources.  But this works well because it is about the partnership between Civil Society and the Government and showing of know‑hows and it is really good for, you know, strengthening the partnerships between both Government and Civil Society organisations.  And we don't have any funding resources from anyone. 

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Thanks.  One idea, I got another way to promote now that we have the Best Practices Forum at IGF, that one of the topics of the Best Practices Forum should be capacity building but also on a national/regional level specifically but global as well. 

>> MAKANE FAYE:  I think it would be good to make this information available at the various regional initiatives.  I think they have websites available.  They have portals where really it would be good to have them in Africa.  We are developing a new website for the African IGF which will be launched next week.  And I think it would be good to have all your information to link it up there so that people can have access and be directed to the resources and activities which will be held.  Thank you.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Good suggestion to try to link the promotion as well with the national/regional IGFs because that's where the benefit is also quite high.

>> IFFAT ROSE GILL:  I have another suggestion here.  You have tried webinars to raise awareness.  What we are ‑‑ with my organisation what we are planning to do in the future because we work with rural women, what we are hoping to do is have sort of a MOOC style, like Massive Online Open Course style videos.  But then it is facilitated by a facilitator as such if we cannot find a trainer because of several barriers, culturals or whatever.  So my suggestion is have you tried maybe making short videos, short snappy videos that people who are holding these events they can use at their events and they don't ‑‑ that the key is to keep them short, of course, because otherwise it is the same boring speakers, boring videos.  That's one suggestion, if you have tried it or not but that could work as well.

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Great idea.  We do have a number of videos and books and materials in Diplo, but I think the point is besides promoting or making a repository of capacity building programmes we should have repository materials not only learning materials but kind of awareness raising materials that people can use.  That's a good idea.  And then we can link with friends of the IGF that are flexible on putting it on a website so we can make a collection of materials.

>> VERONICA CRETU:  I wanted to ask if there is any intensive social media promotion of the capacity building.  If there is a ‑‑ I mean maybe it is worth thinking about, I don't know, a Facebook page where that would promote all the IG capacity building programmes that exist regionally, globally that Olga shared about and gain as many likes and friends and then they could follow updates and follow the open calls and stuff like that, hashtag or Tweet about that.  Get online and get to those who are not yet part of this but still ‑‑

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  One thing we can check is whether the Secretariat is at all active on Facebook and Twitter.  On Twitter they are active only during the IGF activities.  They send some something.  But we ‑‑ their hashtag or something we can do.  If they have a Facebook page, I don't know. 

>> VERONICA CRETU:  There is a Facebook page for the IGF but it is very ‑‑

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Maybe ‑‑ should we do another one or try to build it within ‑‑ right within the ‑‑ that one, yeah.  Let's see.  Okay.  Any other comments?  Time to close it shortly.  Any other comments?  Anything? 

>> OLGA CAVALLI:  I am not following that issue.  What's this status of the friends of the IGF work?  My idea was that they were going to make a new website but I don't know.  Is that ‑‑

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  As far as I understood the idea is that the IGF website stays as it is because it is a UN system.  But on the other hand, we have a more dynamic website which is a repository of all the transcripts, videos, everything about the IGF.  So they run in parallel but they ‑‑ this is officially linked, kind of an open one.  It is not UN but it is formally associated with the IGF.  As much as possible for dynamic content we use this kind of content.  So I think for the repository of materials and capacity building programmes which is just a set of links which we sometimes update I think we should use IGF's website as well because it is not a big deal, but maybe for some other things we want to make, I don't know what, we can use friends of the IGF, a bit more of dynamic content, maybe some pages, discussions.  We can discuss with them but as far as I understood them that's a point. 

Let's see.  Okay.  No more questions, huh?  Should we wrap up here?  Fatima, did you manage to take notes?  Are you going to do the report again as you did an excellent report last year?  I will send you.  I have notes.  So I will send you so you can work on the report.  A big one and then a short one and then we can try to share it with the MAG and probably also today just bits of snapshots.

>> FATIMA CAMBRONERO:  When do you need it?

>> VLADIMIR RADUNOVIC:  Yesterday.  No, I am kidding.  No rush.  We will just present it today at MAG and probably open mic if someone wants, and then we can follow up in the next week or two to send the updates.  Well, thanks a lot for joining us.  And we will work on this further.  Thanks.  See you. 

(Session concluded at 1413)



This is the output of the real‑time captioning taken during the IGF 2014 Istanbul, Turkey, meetings.  Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.  It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.