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This is the output of the real‑time captioning taken during the IGF 2014 Istanbul, Turkey, meetings.  Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.  It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.



>> ANNE C.:  Hi everyone.  Welcome to digital citizenship.  We have been talking about it here at the IGF for ‑‑ I think this is our fifth one.  It started in Vilnis, and then we had a discussion in Nairobi, and then Baku.  And I didn't make it to the last one in Bali, but my co‑director at connectsafety.org, Larry Magid, picked up the ball for me, and every time it's a lively discussion.

So this is a different kind of workshop.  No panel.  Jeremy and I are co‑organizers.  He is going to introduce himself.  I will introduce ‑‑ well, I already kind of did.  I am Anne Collier with connectsafety.org, and then, you know, I'll say a few words, Jeremy is going to say a few words, and then we're going to open things up.  We would like to have this not crowd sourced, but citizen sourced, right.  You can't really dictate what digital citizenship is.  You really have to see what the citizens think about it.  It is iterative, it is evolving, and it is created, or co‑created, by the citizens.  It is kind of multistakeholder, which is very relevant here, I think.  So you are co‑creating it even as we speak.  And I think we are co‑creating it together, adults and youth, but youth are, especially in the child protection area of IGF, youth are especially important stakeholders in the discussion.  Because, according to the UN Convention on the Rights of The Child, youth need to be participants in decisions about them.

But I would really like to welcome and introduce my fellow adult participants here who are part of this discussion, and will probably help discussion.  We have all the youth at the table, and will probably help see discussion.  We have all the youth at the table, because we will probably want to hear from them the most, but Jeremy and I are going to have some help from the our fellow adults just helping move the discussion along.  I have given you all a handout, kind of a cheat sheet, and all it is is just some examples of thinking that has been going on in recent years about digital citizenship, and the final slide is some suggested questions for us to look at together.  But certainly they don't have to be the only questions we look at. 

After I introduce the adults, I am going to ‑‑ I suggest that we go around the table and have the young people introduce themselves and answer one question, and that is, just think about it now:  What is your favorite ‑‑ top favorite use of technology.  Your No. 1 use of technology or media.  Digital technology or media in your life.  What is most important to you as digital citizens?

So I'd also like to acknowledge Bianca Ho, from Hong Kong.  Where are you, Bianca?  Maybe she is not here.  Okay.  But thank you so much.  And thank you so much for coming, Janice, and helping us with this discussion.

Yanice Lee is also an important helper in involving East Asian young people.

And John and Heidi, from Save the Children, Denmark.  Thank you so much for bringing your young people.

And Hannah Broadband, from Childnet International, in London.  As well Larry Magid and Uakin.  Thank you so much for bringing your young people.

And Janice came ‑‑ I think you were the one mentoring in a company, Grace and Nina.

So let's go around the table, starting with Zach.  And if you can just say who you are and what your favorite tech and media is. 

>> Zach:  Hi.  My name is Zach DaSilviA, and I'm with the Childnet Youth IGF Project.  My favorite part about media is having an interactive social platform where you can keep in contact with friends and kind of choose who you want to share your information with and, kind of, share your life with. 

>> ANNE C.:  You have a bi‑national or multinational experience, right? 

>> Zach:  Yeah.  I have lived in lots of different places.  Spain and Ireland; England, America.  So, Yeah.

>> HARRIET K.:  Hi.  I'm Harriet.  Also With Childnet Youth IGF Project.

I think my favorite use of technology in the media context is sharing photos with friends and family who live quite way away, so I can't see them on a regular basis, and it makes you feel like you're still part of their lives.

>> Eleanor:  Hi.  I'm Eleanor.  I'm also with the Childnet Youth IGF Project.  For me, because I have lots of musical friends, social networking sites and social media that share music and also share photos is a key thing for me.

>> OLIVIA:  Yeah.  I'm Olivia, and I'm with Save The Children, Denmark and ANEXO.  Yeah, for me it is the information part.  How you can get a lot of information and find out what is going on in the world, and yeah.  Because I'm really curious, so, yeah.

>> OLIVIA:  Hello.  My name is Olivia, as well, and I'm also with Save The Children and ANEXO. 

My favorite part about the Internet is probably publishing my stories, because I'm really passionate about writing, and I publish my stories on a website called Mobile S, and I get feedback from other users.  So, yeah.

>> AMOUS:  Hello, my name is Amous.  I am here with ANEXO and Save The Children.

The favorite thing I like about the internet is I can be together with my friends, and they can still be on the other side of the earth.

>> SYLVIA:  My name is Sylvia, I am also here with ANEXO and Save The CHILDREN.

Thing I like most about the internet is you can hear music and you can share the music, like Eleanor said.  And I have contact with a lot of my friends who don't live in Denmark and, yeah, it is just a good thing.       Thank you.

>> ENOT:  Hello.  This is Enot.  I am Net Wire Ambassador from Hong Kong.

To me my favorite part of the Internet is to upload videos and music, and also to watch it on the Internet; that is, I am actually a YouTuber and I share my music with the world.  And, yeah, Internet has allowed me to share my ideas with audience all around the world. 

>> MAGNUS:  So, Hello.  My name is Magnus, and I'm a Netwide Ambassador from Hong Kong.

My favorite use of technology is basically communicatiVE platforms, because what's up and Skype, they provides lots of companions and communicating or contacting with my friends all over the world or in different places whenever I want.  So I think that is so good.

Thank you.

>> MICHAEL:  My name is Michael, and I'm from Hong KonG.

My favorite part of the Internet is PTP and Dino where I can get everything I want for free.  Come on.  Yeah.  Who doesn't like it?

Thank you.

>> FINZANT:  Hi everyone.  My name is Finzant Macymorma and I come from Mission Ambassadors.

My favorite part of internet is I can create a music for a garage band, or sometimes I can even use communication technologies, to have some remote Buzz King with my friend.  I have experienced that.  My friend is in Australia and we do some remote Buzz King, which is amazing.  Yeah.

Thank you.

>> WILSON LAMM:  Hi Everyone.  Wilson Lamm here.  Also one of the Net Mission Ambassadors.

My favorite part of the Internet is blogging, not the old fashioned way of blogging, which is blog ourselves and let the others come to your blog, but the new kind of thing that you go to a platform and share your own user generator contents and the others can also comment on your specific topics.  This is where you can find people of same interest, and the content is more readily available and more categorized and you can get more meaningful content out of these kind of sites.

>> LUCA:  Hello.  I am Luca, and I'm from the youth panel of Click Save, and my favorite use of the Internet is communication, because I like it.  With the Internet you can communicate with everyone you want to at any place you are.

>> LEONARD:  Hello.  I'm Leonard, and I'm from the Click Save Youth panel from Germany, too.  For me the communication is also a big part of my daily life.  And it doesn't matter if we're talking about Email or FACEBOOK, it just gives me the possibility to stay in contact with friends or family wherever I am or wherever they are.  Thank you.

>> NINA:  Hello everyone.  My name is Nina.  I'm here with In Safe as a youth ambassador.

For me it is the fact that the Internet presents a share capability to learn.  Whether it is the comfort of your own bedroom or home or learning to find different applications or sharing music, media, just the share capability it presents to learn.  You can find any information you wants whether I need to find something for school, I want to know what is happening in pop culture, be in the news, in the world, it provides such a great platform to learn.

>> GRACE K.:  My name is Grace Kelly.  My favorite part is being able to connect to the entire world at once.  So even just by reading through news articles, you know everything that is going on in the world, and you can compare it to your own.  And I find it a great way to discover new cultures and to get the opportunity to go and experience them myself. 

>> ANNE C.:  Jeremy. 

>> JEREMY B.:  I would like to say what a great range, and write three words down from that, And overwhelming the positive aspects you found in technology were inclusion, connection and sharing.  So I know in Australia ‑‑ by the way, to put myself in context, I'm the one from Australia.  So I think in the last session we had on use and digital citizenship, there was no one else from Australia.  It's a long way.  And I thought to myself into context as to what I did and how it relates to digital citizenship down under the other side of the world.

I work for the metal foundation, which is a very prominent children's Charity in Australia, and one of the flagship programs is A Smart, which basically is holistic framework for schools and for public libraries to help them develop smart, safe and responsible technology throughout the institutions.  More importantly it is not just a work and guide for them but it's actually a way they can go part of a whole society movement really.  Some of you might have heard of sun smart or the quick campaigns which don't just focus ou awareness raising of issues.  In our case, A Smart is much more about ‑‑ it has that kind of element to it to do with Digital Citizenship and to do with digital literacy and participation, and cyber safety or Esafety, but it really is part of a whole society approach.  It is over two and a half thousand schools, at the moment, in Australia, and third of all public libraries, and it goes out free to all those institutions.  More important, it is evidence‑based, which has turned in very, very positive results on its effectiveness to reduce bullying and proactively create those kind of positive pro‑social norms.

Probably the other thing I would say about myself is I am an Australian IGF Ambassador and last year brought youth issues to the Australian forum for the first time, and really it's kind of ‑‑ I'm working for it to work in a way that mirrors what Child International is doing and the Global IGF, and hoping to take this forward.

There is a bit of a movement in Australia and in other countries.  I know the U.S. is probably the same.  I'm moving away from E Safety or Cyber Safety to digital citizenship, but is it just empty rhetoric to talk about this word Digital Citizenship?  Does it have any meaning? 

And One of the expert panelists in Australia last week, Gary Brumer, some of you might know, he is the Chair of UNICEF, and he had this great quote where he talked about global citizenship.  So not necessarily digital, but global citizenship, and in order for it to have meaning as a concept, does ‑‑ do citizens have to raise the idea of global citizenship above the national identity?  Does it have to take priority over the kind of national priorities?  Is it just empty rhetoric and just a meaningless term if you talk about global citizenship and global digital citizenship.  So it will be interesting to come back to that question later, and to hear from all the young people about that, as well.

You know, bouncing off your ideas before about connection and inclusion, overwhelming I'm getting the sense already that it is certainly not just about you connecting with your existing friends that you've had already, but it's reaching out and connecting with a global community in that way. 

>> ANNE C.:  Yeah, it is definitely evolving.

Four years ago, five years ago when we first started this discussion in Venezuela it was mostly adults doing the talking.  We did have really interesting adults from New Zealand and Egypt and U.S. and UK, and we had some young people, only about four they were all from the UK but it was an extremely international discussion which was really wonderful.  We had ‑‑ you know we had the global South and the global North, and some really interesting input from young people.

The next year in Nairobi we heard a lot more from young people, but they were pretty negative on the term digital citizenship.  I think they had picked up on something that, as Jeremy eluded, applied, and as I think I did too earlier, that it's a concept that has somehow grown out of E safety or Internet safety, cyber safety, whatever you want to call it and, you know, why would that be?  Is it just kind of a rebranding of Internet safety and, you know, is that something that young people have any kind of participation in?  Is it kind of about, if taught in schools, is it about classroom management and good net‑ism or norms of behavior?  There are a lot of educators in the United States who are really excited about the civic engagement part of it, about youth activism, and using digital citizenship about Social Studies and learning about the world around you with digital media, but those are pretty visionary educators.  So young people were a little bit negative about it in Nairobi.

The next year it was apparent it hadn't been thought about much in Hong Kong.  We had some input from Net Mission then, and it wasn't a big term in that part of the world, but it seemed to be used more in E safety messaging in Western Europe and North America, and the young people seemed to be a little bit more positive about it. 

So let's gauge things now.  How do you feel about this term?  What does it mean to you?  Does it have any meaning at all in your lives, or is it just kind of a new sort of online safety?  We won't go around the table now, we'll just have people jump in, and Jeremy will help me call on people, keep an eye on whose hand goes up first.

I think Hannah and then Zach, and then we will go to somebody else.

>> HARRIET:  I'm Harriet.

>> ANNE C.:  Harriet.  I'm sorry.

>> HARRIET:  It's Fine.

Well, personally, I have never heard the term digital safety and citizenship and E safety before.  But thinking when we talked about this workshop, it does seem to have a meaning if you think about it being part of the community online and generally doing good things rather than bad things.

>> ZACH:  Yeah, also, like before, it doesn't have the awareness, I think, with the young people, as much young people as it should.

But I wrote down some little thing here when I was actually thinking about it.  I put it was like making an active effort to become a positive member of the digital community, and that's using, like, social means involving the media as it changes with the people who actually use it.  Also comes along with certain rights that you may have to express your ideas in a positive way, which may be able to educate others.  So that's my opinion on it. 

>> ANNE C.:  Quick follow‑up question.

A couple years ago, I think it was Janice who suggested ‑‑ I think it might have been in Baku ‑‑ that we just drop the term digital.  It's just citizenship, you know, it's online and off line.  But it's not just citizenship, is it?  It's something a little bit different.  So what is it?

Go ahead.

How about somebody from Hong Kong? 

>> AUDIENCE:  I consider digital citizenship to be caring about other Internet user's rights.  So, apparently in Hong Kong people do not know much about digital citizenship, especially youth. 

Before I joined this netwide programme, I was at school and no one at school were talking about anything about this citizenship.  They were only talking about this technology, but not thinking about the thing behind.

And in Hong Kong the case is even worse.  People start to have all sorts of activity.  For example, they expose other Internet users privacy and expose their personal information once they think that they disagree about the person's ‑‑ some views on the social issues, and then they do things to harm their rights.  So I think not only that they don't know about digital citizenship, but they are also doing something against this term.  So yes, that's what's happening in Hong Kong. 

>> ANNE C.:  So, Enoch, it is partly about protecting your rights.  It is safety, isn't it, and protecting other's rights?  Is that what you're thinking? 

>> ENOCH:  I think to become a citizen it means to be, for example in the real world, when are you a citizen, you need to behave to become a part of the City, and that is not to harm the other individuals.  So I think the two kind of connect. 

>> ANNE C.:  Larry? 

>> LARRY:  I want to offer a dictionary definition.  I think the problem you had in Vilich, people are not looking up the word citizen.  When you look it up in Merriam Webster's dictionary a person who legally belongs to a Country and has the rights and protection of that Country.

Now way down in the list of definitions they talk about behavior and obeying a law, but the very first term in the definition of citizen has to do with rights, privileges and protection, not so much behavior.  So interesting perspective from Merriam Webster. 

>> ANNE C.:  Harriet. 

>> HARRIET:  I think that is very true about the definition of the words.  I know we also in school were taught citizenship and that is very much based upon behavior and how you're meant to behave and, like, not be so disruptive in public.  So yes, it belongs to the Country but digital citizenship you belong you're kind of part of the Internet.  If you are an active member of the Internet you do things there and then at school we're taught in citizenship and that goes hand in hand with being ‑‑ with behaving as that Country would say. 

>> ANNE C.:  Nina. 

>> NINA:  I think what Larry mentioned ties in with the behavior because when you grow up you are taught to be a citizen and you have to respect everyone's rights and how to behave and what is proper and not.  It should just transfer to online digital means that it is the same as when you're in the real world to the virtual world so you have to respect other people's rights, you know, other people's right to privacy to what they need as well.  So it is just about how to act responsibly online as well as kind of respecting everyone else's rights. 

>> ANNE C.:  But that is behavior, right, Nina? 

>> NINA:  But if you don't respect somebody else's rights you're denying them of their right but they have the right to their rights almost. 

>> ANNE C.:  Go ahead, Grace. 

>> GRACE:  I think whether are you in the real world or virtual world, behavior rights are linked the whole time because if somebody's behavior is poorly, then often it's affecting someone else's rights, so obviously if we're trying to protect people's rights it is somebody else's behavior that we're trying to change, so they're always intertwined.

I'm also not a fan of the whole term virtual world and real world I think of them as the same.  We could always connect from irrelevant island say to the states only now we just won't have a scary long boat ride or very expensive plane ticket.  We can do it over the Internet.   Even though things move faster now we still have the ability to connect to the entire world.  So I think the trick is to try to make people realize that when we were growing up our parents or our guardians or whoever taught us how to behave and how to be polite to people and you say hello when you pass them on the street.  So I think people need to realize that that has to transfer on to when you're sitting in front of a laptop screen.  It's still people.  They still have emotions.

A community is a group of people that work together or something or are together at something and the Internet is a community of nearly everyone now in the entire world that is working together at keeping connected.

>> JEREMY:  I would love to come back to my comment earlier about this concept of global citizenship and let me think about the Internet and Internet community.  Many people have already alluded to the idea that it is the whole of the world online in many ways.  My contentious point here is it too challenging a prospect to find a solution or in act that idea of global citizenship or slash digital citizenship.  When we talk about behaviors and behaviors norms and pro social norms I would argue it is very challenging even within a nation that have a national citizen and to have expected norms within one nation, but then you open up to the entire world how much harder does that make it and my question to everyone:  Is it too hard to have this idea of a global citizen that everyone across all those different cultures and, you know, cultural norms and social norms pulling all together into online communities. 

ANNE C.:  Zach

>> Zach:  I believe that no, it is not too difficult because we already not necessarily because of our culture have the same behaviors and the same norms but we are all humans.  We have those rights.  And I think that by sticking up for each other even if we don't know that person.  Before this week I didn't know some of the people on this panel, but yet because we have this common interest, because we have this interest to stick together created, as people are calling it, it is possible to work together to create that digital citizenship worldwide.

>> AUDIENCE:  Also I think the terms are maybe mixed up a little bit because when you talk about global citizenship and then the actual term for citizenship is being part of maybe a nation or a Country where as global obviously it's everybody together.

When you throw in kind of that digital aspect then that brings it more into a community, like grace was saying.  But I kind of feel as if usually when you get your citizenship it is either earned or you automatically have it where as on the Internet you pay a certain fee and you have your Internet capability there.  So you don't have to earn it as much, but I still think it as important to be an active member.

When you want to be a positive citizen, like I know Nina was talking about ‑‑ not really her definition but when she said it was respecting other people and your behavior is positive to other people, that is how you become a citizen, but I think it's you being respected is becoming a citizen, so having your rights upheld.  So obviously that means that nobody else can, like, take away your rights or be in violation of your rights as a digital citizen.  But I think it all links together all of the things but I think it is important to just really focus on having everybody's rights really protected. 

>> ANNE C.:  Vincent, did I get your name right? 

>> VINCENT:  Correct.  Thanks.

Referring to Jeremy's question, I think that even that various cultures will see that it is just effecting our behavior, but ourself, like for citizenship concept, our mind‑set is the same.  Just like the mind‑set was here and if you are affected by different cultures and if you have different behaviors, what Larry just said, and if we just focusing on the behavior, then it will be difficult for us to define that.  But if we are focusing on our mind‑set, our inner self, then it is clear and that there are some common grounds and more centre for us to stand for and this is the core elements of the digital citizenship. 

>> ANNE C.:  Vincent, what do you mean by mind‑set?  The way we see ourselves or the way we see the Internet?  That is a hard one, I know.  A great word. 

>> VINCENT:  I would say mind‑set is the way you think.  The core elements that effect the way that you think.  I will say that is the mind‑set.  And it would be kind of like attitude stuff.  Like it has to be outed for a long period of time but basically digital citizenship embrace that concept that in fact deep down in ourself the mind‑set we are holding are basically the same.  That's my point of view.  Yeah. 

>> ANNE C.:  I think I saw Sonia's hand over there.  Yeah.  Thanks.  The mic is going.

>> SONIA:  I wanted to say something about where we are citizens.  If think off line we act differently as citizens.  Our behavior is different when we are informally in certain kind of familiar settings.  We behave differently when we put on our suits and go to former occasions like this.  We're going to cautious when we go to another Country because we don't quite know what the rules are going to be so we give ourselves time to kind of work it out and sometimes we go to get parties and we get drunk and we say outrageous things.  If I take those different settings and there are many settings.

On the Internet different people are reading the spaces that we're in according to different kinds of conventions and there isn't a way to workout, you know, am I somewhere form ar or informal, is it okay to be drunk and rude here, is that funnier or offensive.  So I just think we need to think about citizens within the spaces that make those rules.  And of course humanity has made those rules over time, but any particular point those rules are set by FACEBOOK or your school Internet or a government consultation forum and they're very different kinds of spaces and citizens only really understand how to behave when they are kind of engaged with those who are setting and managing those faces.  So I would like the ways in which the spaces of themselves manage to be part of the conversation about what is expected of digital citizens. 

>> ANNE C.:  So it is contextual, you're saying? 

>> Zach:  Yeah. 

>> ANNE C.:  It depends a lot in the space you're in.  Zach kind of alluded to that, I remember, because you were talking about communities when you think of digital citizenship maybe you're thinking more in terms of not geographical communities but vertical interest digital communities and I think that was a very apartment point and Sonia is reminding me of something that she described the collapsed publics of the digital environment and how she gave the example of an African‑American activist, Stokey Carmichael, in the civil rights movement and when he used to do his public speaking in the South in black churches he had a very specific audience and then he went national.  He exploded, right.  And all of a sudden he was talking to everybody and he had to decide whether he needed to speak differently to a very broad audience or stay who he was in the American South.  It was a hard thing.  In a way that is what we have to do now is decide who we're speaking to.  We have these invisible people we're interacting with, not just audiences, and that presents a challenge to us in how we interact with people.

I would love to see if you have comments on that in those sort of collapsed walls of the Internet. 

Janice you have something? 

>> JANICE:  Yes.  I'm just curious.  First of all, we're digital citizens in a digital world but I notice that many of us have a computer in front of us and are mobile in our pocket.  At what moments do we switch from being a digital citizen to a citizen?  Because for me the way I watch young people the two immerge.  They're sitting next to somebody but texting this same person at the same time.

And also if we can talk about digital citizens, what do I talk about when I go out in the street without my mobile or my computer?  Am I a street citizen?  Am I another sort of citizen?  It just seems to me, and this is why I suggested dropping the digital, we are who we are.  We are who we are and yes we need to know the different con text, but citizenship is a very deep concept when I'm giving, I'm bringing, I'm shaping the world and therefore, this is my reason for suggesting just like digital literacy, what is digital litter raw see?  Does it mean I'm ill literal when I'm off the computer but litter rat when I'm on.  There for I'm wondering why, because also literacy simply means using the tools of my generation of my world making myself understood being able to participate and being able to read other people and messages coming through other environments.

So this is why I do insist on perhaps we should think about dropping the digital.  We asked citizens our world fully integrates online, off line and many other sorts of technology, so at what point are we going to recognize digital just as being an integral part of our world. 

>> HARRIET K.:  I think we have a remote question. 

>> ANNE C.:  We have a remote question but I would like to see if anybody has a response to Janice.  Tell me your name again.  Michael. 

>> WILSON:  Wilson. 

>> ANNE C.:  Wilson.  Sorry. 

>> WILSON:  Janice actually threw a very interesting point, and I would like to throw my point for guy's discussions.

Actually, you mention a lot about there is a lot of similarities between online digital and the streets.  When we're texting somebody the people that we know.  We know them physically so we behave like we normally do in normal daily life; however, I think that one very important thing or unique specialty is Internet is anonymity tee.  Just like going back why I like logging is that I can share, I can have the freedom to speak whatever I want on a certain topic that I can find that maybe people that have come with me and develop a community.  This is my right.  Then it becomes a responsibility even though you are anonymous on Internet, you can say whatever things you want, you can use abusive words and that is the responsibility comes in and that's also in reply ‑‑ I think, is the mic working ‑‑

>> ANNE C.:  Yeah. 

>> WILSON:  In line with almost saying that study is a code of conduct or a mind‑set that forms a responsibility that we should be responsible of what we said in the Internet.  And that's the whole two layer strike a balance between the rights and responsibility really forms the core elements of the digital citizenship. 

>> ANNE C.:  Do we ‑‑ okay.  Wait.  We do have a remote question.

Do we know if it related to this?  Because we do have some hands up.  Okay. 

Please go ahead.  I didn't catch your name.  We have two people next to each other, so I don't know who raised their hand first.

>> VENITIA:  I'm Venitia.  I'm also from Australia and, yes, it's a long way away.

I've been listening to the conversation and talked a lot about what is citizenship in a global context.

I wonder if the term digital that we're stick anything front of a lot of existing terms is just an evolution near step that we're moving through.  So one definition of technology that's oven referred to is the fact that technology is something that is created within your lifetime.  So I don't look at my washing machine and go what amazing technology that is, the children who are being born today are not going to look at their smart phone and go oh, what an amazing piece of technology.  It is not technology to them, it's just something that exists within their world so I just, I guess it is just a question.  We talk about digital citizenship.  We talk about digital literacy we stick the term digital in front of everything.  Is this just to help us transition into a world that exists today that we're grappling with and learning about?  Because as has been said a number of times today off line, online, are truly merged environments and in a another couple of year's time I expect that we will no longer be speaking about these terms at all anymore.  And I'm curious to know what the room thinks about that concept. 

>> ANNE C.:  Before we answer that one, and that is an excellent question, there are so many threads here I don't want to lose.  There is somebody there who has the mic who has been waiting for quite a while.  Please go ahead. 

>> LILY G.:  Lily Green, also from Australia. 

>> ANNE C.:  We're overrun with Australians. 

>> LILY G.:  I know we were just hiding.  I say look at the difference when we treat someone as an consumer as a citizen.  They have rights to with an education they have rights to live with their family.  They have rights not to be heard.  They have rights to say the things they wants to say and have their opinions considered. 

If you're a consumer, you are only allowed rights if you can afford the goods, you know.  You'll be marketed to, you'll be preapproved as a potential person.  You have to be able to sign your own contracts.

A consumer is given limited rights according to their material wealth, but a citizen has rights because they are a human being so what I think I go back to the young person who said we all have the same rights because we're all human and we're all human online, and we should be looking at what those minimum rights are like a right to education, a right to safety, a right to be heard. 

>> ANNE C.:  Why don't we go to the remote participant's question.

>> REMOTE MODERATOR:  Yes.  Rutano is asking isn't citizenship and normal behavior polite context how can we respect that online without culture ‑‑ 

>> ANNE C.:  How can we respect that online without any cultural context? 


>> ANNE C.:  Yeah.  Well, somebody said something about how we're all human beings, so I think there is a cultural context and a commonality of humanity and how do you weigh these two things?  Harriet you have been pretty patient. 

>> HARRIET K.:  About those points, I think the Internet is something we have in common and some people talk about the new culture of the Internet, how people do behave a little bit differently online then they might in person.  So, it is kind of ‑‑ our culture doesn't just appear like that.  The entire culture of nations in areas didn't disappear.  It builds up through the history and experiences, it builds up through the people.  And the Internet is still a relatively new thing so we can't expect it to be a complete central unified ‑‑ it can't be unified yet because it hasn't had that background. 

>> ANNE C.:  That is an excellent point.  It reminds me of something that Sonia was alluding to.  It is a changing context, right?  You know we talk about anonymity tee and how bad it is, but we never hear about the positive things that anonymity tee allows we talk about all the trolling and negativity online but we've only just begun to figure out so many things, the social norms we've developed over thousands of years we're just bringing them into this new context.

Tell me, Eleanor, it seems like you have something on that. 

>> ELEANOR:  In my personal experience digital citizenship as we're calling it is increasing definitely in younger people.  They are creating these environments where they're talking about political education.  They are talking about things that are of interest to them.  And I think one positive of digital citizenship is because everybody worldwide can talk to each other.  We are creating that bigger bond.  Like Harriet said there will take time because there are rather different backgrounds.

Because of the internet and how it has been designed so that everyone can talk to each other, I think that one of the things that a digital citizenship ‑‑ 

>> ANNE C.:  So hard to say. 

>> ELEANOR:  Everyone coming together about views like this environment.  If we could get everybody, because like you were saying from Australia, it's long distance.  If we could get youth and people involved through the internet, it's a way of getting everybody involved and everybody's views.  So I think that is one of the positives of digital citizenship. 

>> ANNE C.:  Please go ahead, Mandy.  Come to a mic, or can you get a mic to her.  And then somebody else in the back has the mic already, so you're next.

>> MANDY:  I would like to expand on what you said because that is an excellent point and how digital citizenship could be used for piece building and it has largely been used in many countries.  I can give examples of children in Gaza who are in a restricted area have had the benefits of digital citizenship to communicate with other people to try different peace building activities so I really want to us look at the positive form of it and how we can use it in this particular aspect.  Thank you. 

>> ANNE C.:  Please go ahead.

>> ANTHIM:  Thank you.  Anthim from Newman.  Anybody from Newman?  That is good. 

I would like first to thank you for the points you rise.  Digital citizenship is rightly used not because we take it or solicit in the schools or because we don't even have many courses in any schools and most of us don't have any come courses in computer or Internet, but we feel like we are citizen ‑‑ we are using Internet for this reasoning

I would like to tell you also my brother is 15 years old and he is an Admin. in a FACEBOOK on the news and what is happening around.

The Internet from the Arab youth respective is a tool for a change and that is exactly what is happening with Arab revolution.  We know back to social media especially FACEBOOK and Twitter, T&M and other countries.  The Internet for us is a tool for fighting peacefully of course for human rights, our rights, for looking for jobs, for school we have to thank God every day because we have a good life.  We are using Internet for ICT for the Admin.   Even our Internet is very slow, that is the digital in citizenship for us.  It might be the bottom of the list entrapment.  Thank you. 

>> ANNE C.:  Before you give the mic away, are people in Yemen accessing the mobile a lot on their phones more than ‑‑

>> AUDIENCE:  Centernet is almost 15%.  We're still using the second generation of GSM.  No LTE.  No 3G. 

>> ANNE C.:  Thank you. 

>> JEREMY:  I think you have a comment over here. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I am the director from Cambodia.  I am not young, as you know, but in my organisation we have a programme which promote participation in demography in which we promote young people to use social media, Twitter, FACEBOOK, block to talk about everything, election, good governance, about politics which are very sensitive issues.  So digital citizen, for your can question for example how does it translate in different countries and culture.  This is a realistic question because it depends on each Country that how your human rights is respect and how you exercise your right

So, for example in Cambodia, when young people, they share something or they talk about politics, then they vary.  Two years before ‑‑ Yemen people very hesitate to talk about politics, because they think they talk about political party, in which they are not allowed to express them, which political party they prefer to or they vote for, something that is ‑‑ or they are not allowed to write something as seen against the government.

This is the very difficulty of the rise of expression, the rise of information, and the rise of sharing of young people.  So related to this context, I would like to know from all of you here ‑‑ because I'm very happy to see all of young people here, and you are lucky that you live in the Country that much more democracy and much more open than my Country.  So, do you have, beside the culture norm and political issues, do you have any barrier in freedom of expression and in digital citizen? 

Thank you very much.

>> JEREMY:  Thanks.  Are we going around to the young people about that point, about ‑‑ 

>> ANNE C.:  Yeah. 

>> JEREMY:  ‑‑ the rights of activism? 

>> ANNE C.:  I think Zach has something. 

>> Zach:  I think one of the speakers said the Internet they were using as a tool for change so I think that is a great little thing, great letters quote there, because I think really the Internet is out there so you can really go and express your views no matter what it is, like if you can go and express anything you really want out there, whether it may be political, and I know sometimes people are limited based on which Country they live in, they may not be able to express their views freely, which we had a workshop on anonymous services, that is how you can really go out there and put your point across really.  I know it is not easy and I know sometimes there have been many incidents in which consequences have come from really speaking how you feel, but I think using the Internet we can really raise issues and we can use it for on tool for change.

>> JEREMY:  It is interesting when you talk about context and this idea that you're talking just then about the using it as a vehicle for expression and talking about social norms and some of those communities social norms are much more democratic but I guess the governments of some countries exert influence over the accessibility over those websites to create other social norms. 

>> ANNE C.:  They're creating a social norm of work around.  They're creating a social norm of encouraging people to find ways around the censorship.  Which is kind of a new thing in our world.

>> JEREMY:  We have a question ‑‑ 

>> ANNE C.:  Yeah.

>> JEREMY:  Maybe a couple more, I think we have a question over here. 

>> ANNE C.:  We haven't heard much from Denmark so I think we need to hear something from Denmark. 

>> JEREMY:  Maybe Denmark and think we have two questions here.  We have a few to get through.

>> AUDIENCE:  Yeah, I agree with Zach about the changes but it is important if the Internet will be used to change then it is really important that we have the freedom and that we are not afraid to use it and we don't try to block it down and put filters on it because yeah, there are a lot of bad things out there but we can clearly hear there are so many good things as well, so we have to make a balance between what should we hide because I don't think we should hide a lot we should just use and it use all the good things and then be aware of the bad things and be able to tackle them.  Is. 

>> JEREMY:  The table here first. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I am from the council.  I would like to express the political dimension of digital citizenship because as digital citizen you should also have the possibility to influence society and to influence democracy of course and I think that can be done like on two levels.  First on the national level by help of E democracy applications, by crowd source, but also you have the unique ability now to connect with other people and to create even more pressure, so I would be interested in talking more about digital citizenship contribute to, like, new ways of advancing democratic governance. 

>> PETER M.:  I don't so much have a question, but I have a few comments to make and I've been listening to all the conversations. I'm also from Australia, just in case you haven't gathered that.

My name is Peter M. and I represent an organisation called Cultural Infusion.  And we work with a whole lot of programs which I am building into cultural understanding not only as a core value but as a key competency of global citizenship.  And there is something called revolution happening in Australia at the moment.  Enter culture understanding is becoming a key competency which will it's along sides things like numeracy, literacy, ethical understanding, critical thinking, personal responsibility and will cut across all the learning, mathematics, geography, the arts.  I think that is quite revolution near and I am hearing the word digital being used again and again.  I think what we need to be able to do is develop those cultural competencies to allow us to communicate with each other.

What the Internet does is de‑humanizes us.  When I see what people write engaged in polarized discussions.  I said to someone recently that I was coming to this Internet forum and they laughed at me.  They said why isn't it just happening over the web?  We mustn't forget that we're humans.  We need to interact with each other.  Nothing beats the power of the physical engagement of someone else.  And psychologists will tell you this.  You remember 10% of what you hear and what you need but 90% of what you see hear and do. 

>> ANNE C.:  I don't know how anybody can disagree with the idea that physical interaction is very, very important and essential.  But I think it is kind of a meem going around that says that Internet de‑humanizes us.  When I look at the young people around the table, I don't see any lack of humanity and when I interact with them on Instagram or on Twitter, I don't see or experience or feel any less humanity.  So I wonder if anybody at the table is interested in that subject and would like to speak to this concept of dehumanization. 


>> HARRIET K.:  I think that is not necessarily de‑humanizing people, but if you're talking to someone on the internet you are often people do act a bit differently than in real life.  If you know there is a screen between you and the other person, it doesn't feel so personal, so real.  So I have ‑‑ I talk to most of my friends online and some of the people who I know at school I got to know really well online and there is a different way of interacting.  So it is not necessary de‑humanizing, but it gives people some more confidence.  You can talk in different ways.  So it is not de‑humanizing but kind of changing how you interacted a little bit. 

>> ANNE C.:  Somebody from Hong Kong, it's Michael.  You haven't spoken yet.  Please go ahead.

>> MICHAEL:  Something happening in Hong Kong ‑‑ 

>> ANNE C.:  Michael, get closer to the mic, please. 

>> MICHAEL:  What I observe is the humanizing is happening and it is dividing to different section.  The Internet fragment and some people in certain forum have dominated power and dominated voice and the other perspective is not surviving in that forum and people see those commentator as a kind of concept like communities and it's not something like they are human being and they have diversity.  And that is a problem happening. 

>> ANNE C.:  So they're choosing to kind of de‑humanize the annoying moderator, right, or the person who is abusing power.  So that's a little different.  It is not technology de‑humanizing all of us it is kind of a way of asserting power over somebody, maybe.  It is a little bit different.  That is a really excellent point.

Somebody different?

>> JEREMY:  Maybe in the middle here. 

>> ANNE C.:  Go ahead.  Yeah.

>> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  I would just add‑on to Michael's point.  I think it is more that we should appreciate what Internet has given us, like if it is de‑humanizing us, why are we having so much NGO, doing charity campaigns via online, via FACEBOOK, via social media and let's make a tricky example.  The ALS ice bucket challenge, I don't know, like at least let us know more about the disease, let us know more about, raise awareness and that is what we can do without our Internet.  So, actually, if you think of it that way, so the Internet becomes a perspective how the way you're looking at, how you use it, make it whether it humanize you or de‑humanize you.  So I think that it's more like a tool or platform so that the way we use it defines us, defines humanity.  Thank you.

>> JEREMY:  I think that is a good points.  I always think about an analogy off line and online in terms of architecture and there is public spaces off line, whether it is a football stadium or the gathering place at town hall or a cinema that have different dynamics and because of the architecture and what the expectations are it is very similar in online platforms.  You're either sometimes it gives rise to opportunities for, you know, meaningful interactions and sometimes it does de‑humanize potentially depending on the limitation of the architecture or the design and maybe some of it is to do with Anne and I talked about ‑‑ all the online communities are still going through a storming phase, sorting things out, developing complexity to enable more diverse and nuanced human interactions.

Do we have one over here? 

>> ANNE C.:  Please go ahead.

>> AUDIENCE:  I am from India.  Digital citizenship in India I would like to show a photograph over there, an image.  We call it very straight level religious people.  Very straight level.  Very poor.  They are setting at a plant teaching the religious stuff as well as the horoscope telling the future, destiny all happening on a computer there.

A couple years back we had a small programme for Cal Government empowering grass root environment using technology.  So it was a very passionate project.  We told them currently the fisherman is not able to sell their fish in a good price because the middleman comes in and grabs everything so we said the fisherman cooperated so we can have a reporter, put a camera there and anywhere in the world people can, you know buy the fish.  They can auction the fish sitting in New York you can auction the fish to India, somewhere in the street.  So that is kind of digital citizenship we are looking for from our developing economic perspective.  Thank you very much. 

>> ANNE C.:  Go ahead, Vincent.

>> VINCENT:  I think the gentleman here raised the point about charity ask humanity acts in the Internet and ALS challenge and all of this stuff which in fact I appreciate that gentleman who raised a point about the Internet de‑humanizer.  I think that humanities it is, in fact, should be a core element in digital citizenships.  It's because criticize, people criticize about, like, Internet de‑humanizer is because mainly because they think that it make us after all we do have a choice.  Like Michael said, we choose to be like, get yourself isolated or you get yourself to be involved in the society.  So Internet is providing alternative way and also an efficient way for us to do so.  That is why I appreciate a yeah bring the point of humanity and I think it should be included in digital citizenships. 

>> ANNE C.:  Sylvia.

>> SYLVIA:  Yes, I have a quick question to all of you in here.  I want to know, and I want you to be really honest, how many people in here use filters for their children? 

>> ANNE C.:  Filters for their children.  For their own children? 

>> SYLVIA:  Yeah. 

>> ANNE C.:  Anybody?  Two?  Why?  Just kidding.

Did you want to say anything about that?  Please go ahead, Olivia.

>> OLIVIA:  I thought there were many more and I think if we go into another forum there will be a lot more raised hands because, yeah, I think it is a shame, but many people put up folders for the children because they think it is the best way to protect them, but in my opinion it is only taking away their freedom and taking away a lot of opportunities to change something. 

>> ANNE C.:  Zach.

>> Zach:  Just as a general question, how many people do have children? 

>> ANNE C.:  Good question.

>> Zach:  Okay.  That does clarify a bit more on that.

But also, thinking about, like, de‑humanizing things, for me to really put knit context, I'm thinking what is humanizing first of all.  How do you base humanizing.  It's base oath physical interaction or just interaction between humans.  If you go from maybe physical interaction as being humanized, then maybe now we're changing the actual term of humanizing and we're actually including social interaction using online services and using the Internet and maybe kind of moving it into the definition of maybe humanizing so that is my ‑‑

>> JEREMY:  Definitions.  We always get into trouble with definitions, don't we. 

>> ANNE C.:  Yes, we do.  Lots of hands. 

>> JEREMY:  In the corner. 

>> ANNE C.:  Michael, which one?  Okay.  Please go ahead. 

>> BARON:  My name is Baron.  I'm a student volunteer from India.  I'm going to deviate slightly back to the global context. 

>> ANNE C.:  Please, anything you want to say.  We need more representation from India.

>> BARON:  I wanted to comment on something.  I'm sorry, I forgot your name, but going back to what you said about technology and how the definition of technology is changing.  But what I feel in a place like India where you have, sorry to say 1.2 billion people and only 2 100 million have access to the Internet and out of that even the 200 million have very restricted amount of access which goes to maybe downloading music.  So these issues are definitely going to come up on a much larger scale once access increases.

And to someone in India who has come up in a law background, even a washing machine is a completely new form of technology for them.  They don't know what it is.  So when the billions get this access I feel digital citizenship which is something that is going to grow into a much, much substantial issue and at that point it's going to be really hard to respect the rights of everyone as a global citizen.  So that is something and I really like the initiative of the IGF which is putting together such discussions to take this at a key time, but at that time it is going to be near impossible to manage, to take care of everyone's rights.  So I just feel it is really important we do it now than wait for it when it is too late. 

>> ANNE C.:  Maybe we will learn to take care of each other's rights.  Maybe it will be more lateral rather than imposed on us I hope.

>> JEREMY:  I think that is an interesting point coming back to Larry's points earlier his definition of citizenship and one of the first things mention in the definition. 

>> ANNE C.:  Janice, you have your hand up.

>> JANICE:  Yes.  I think it is really interesting this discussion because in 1995 a great manor Europeans although fellow Australians, I'm also Australia, Jack Delore wrote a book with Unesco called education, a treasure within.  And what he said was that there are just four pillars that we need to look at as teachers, as parents if every young person comes out being fully capable in these four pillars then we will have a great society.  I suppose you can guess what the first one was, it's schools, job, learning to know.  But the second one is learning to learn because today we learn most of what we learn on Internet as young people just told me but did third pillar is learning to be and we haven't talked that much about identity but it's a huge change for us all.  We can have so much different identities in the online, the off line world, et cetera. 

>> ANNE C.:  We did talk about mind‑set, and that is part of learning to be, I think.

>> JANICE:  That fourth one is learning to live together and perhaps this is the real huge challenge.  So I think that although this is what, almost 20 years old, the European commission and all of the European commissions projects are working in this direction and feel it is most important that we don't lose any of these elements.  I would be rather interested to know what the young people think about that. 

>> ANNE C.:  Go ahead, please.

>> AUDIENCE:  Back to de‑humanizing arguments.  I would like to read a quote from professor Simon pepper from MIT that says there is a huge difference between what technology can do and what human beings choose to do with technology.  So once again we're back to human behavior and learning to be. 

>> ANNE C.:  Choice of free well

>> AUDIENCE:  It is not about technology, it is about human behavior. 

>> ANNE C.:  Yeah.  There are been many people touching on that that part of humanity is individual it tee and free will and choice.  I've heard a lot of the young people touch on that.  Oh, my gosh.  I think there is a young person in red over there, maybe. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  I am from Indonesia.  So I have a question for all the young people who are in this room.  A lot of time when adults talk about what is good for young people or for children or talk about your rights we don't include you.  So my question is about censorship.  In a lot of cases censorship or Internet blocking is always made and the reason ‑‑ with the reason of protecting young children or protecting children or young people.

Like, for example, in my Country ‑‑

>> ANNE C.:  What is your Country? 

>> AUDIENCE:  Indonesia.  The government does a lot of Internet blocking, website blocking mostly on pornography because it is for young people, because without a clear procedures and process, there is a lot of other sites get blocked just because it has the keyword sex, porn or rape.  This is one very good website that has information about files against humans get blocked where the information is very important for young people, for girls and also for boys. 

So this is my question for, you know, all the young people here.  What is your opinion about that, that all of the censorships and all of this Internet blockings are made?

Thank you. 

>> ANNE C.:  Eleanor. 

>> ELEANOR:  So, to answer that, personally from my experience I believe that censorship for young people isn't a good option because of human curiosity.  Children will get around those filters, they find ways, they learn how to hack and they do find ways to get around those filters and I don't believe that censorship is a good way, because like you were saying, sites and filters do block things with words like sex or pornography and sometimes those sites aren't about abuse, they are about teaching children maybe about sex education or there about how to avoid child pornography and I think, yeah, filters aren't a good way forward for young people.  And maybe for younger people, as Nina was saying earlier but for our sort of age 12 to 18 we need to be educated more about what is online.  We need to be educated what is maybe not appropriate for us rather than just blocking it.  Because that way we won't learn.  And when we become adults and those filters go away, we don't know what is right and wrong.  So I hope that answers your question. 

>> ANNE C.:  Harriet had something and then zone yaw and then maybe back.  Okay.

>> HARRIET K.:  Very quickly because Eleanor said everything I was going to say.  I was just going to add that I think where we live in England we're quite lucky when there are filters in school and at home sometimes.  They are quite good.  They don't block helpful sites like about sexual health or anything and I think we're just very lucky that these filters are advanced enough to do that.

>> JEREMY:  Can I jump into with another contentious idea.  Neil postman wrote a great book about the disappearance of childhood and what he predicted and really he wrote it at the invent of the Internet and he au and he was really mainly referring to television and that kind of content.  What he was saying is we're progress to go a pre‑industrial time when the line between childhood and adult hood was much more blurred because children were given access to adult secrets. 

>> ANNE C.:  And a lot of responsibility.

>> JEREMY:  Yeah, it was much more braided and much more for each age range it was much more direct the content where as he saw this kind of breaking down especially the internet as well giving free access to all kinds of content.  I thought I would throw that in there, as well. 

>> ANNE C.:  Wilson, did you have something? 

>> WILSON:  Thank you.  Just a quick response to the lady's questions.  She asked about how do we feel when adults decides what should we should be sense order?  Let's reverse the question.  Why not we decide what should be sense order.  Like in a framework of participation, obviously when I'm not talking about we're taking over everything, we decide the policy on ourselves but support environment with content that presents itself with a clear way with analysis on the content then let the youth decide whether this content should be sense order or not and answer this kind of youth panel we are deciding we can decide what censorship should be and that's what defines us in the next 40 years when we are using the Internet.  And that's basically the next generation of the policy we are making. 

>> ANNE C.:  I love that idea, because you're ‑‑ you decide what is sense order for your little brothers and sisters and cousins because you're a lot closer to them in age and you have direct experience on what they might need to be protected.

Olivia, I don't think we've heard from you yet, the other Olivia.

>> OLIVIA:  I hope it's okay by jumping back. 

>> ANNE C.:  Sure. 

>> OLIVIA:  I've never heard the term digital citizenship but I did have a teacher in Third Grade who taught us about behavior and the Internet.  She add good dialog with us about moral and how to treat others right also on the Internet and we've never had problems with cyber bullying in my class, so yeah. 

>> ANNE C.:  Early conversations, then. 

>> OLIVIA:  I think that the way to stop cyber bullying is to educate kids from an early age about behavior. 

>> ANNE C.:  Thank you.

Sonia, did you have something or are we pastime? 

>> SONIA:  I have a lot to say about filtering I will say I'm from Australia because I haven't had a chance to say that yet. 

>> ANNE C.:  No.

>> SONIA:  I just wanted to say I think it is really interesting discussion about filtering, but in the research we do when we have asked children from nine to 16 what upsets them, very often when they are talking about what upsets them online they're talking about things that they've come across accidentally.  So it is not a matter just of kind of thinking about regulating or censoring what information you can get if you decide to go out and get it.  So I wouldn't want to advocate that a range of things we're talking about would be blocked entirely, but there is a way in which young people don't want when they're researching the homework to suddenly be exposed to pornography or when they're having a conversation about civic activity they don't want a lot of race hate also speaking as someone that is much older I don't want to come across pornography or abusive comments when I am doing something else.

The example I give is about spam.  Ten years ago when I went to work my Email when I went to work was pornographic spam and it's all gone and we're not calling that censorship but we are calling it a good thing about our working environment so I can go and find that stuff if I really want to, but I don't want it there in my face all the time and I think that's what many young people in my research also are saying.  So the word censorship, I think, is not very helpful. 

>> ANNE C.:  Thank you.  We just have a couple more minutes, and there is somebody with the mic right there. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm from Sudan. 

>> ANNE C.:  A little bit louder please. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I want to add something about citizenship and social change.

We all agree that when digital citizens should have rights such as freedom, the right to be heard and we know that lately social media are used in organizing protests, but on the other hand, government and other police authorities use this account to track the youth activity.  I just want to add that.  How to guarantee the right of being safe while you are using social media for ‑‑ you are using social media for social change.

Some people now are recalling for anonymous citizenship, but we need to tradeoff between anonymity and at the same time trust ability.  You cannot call people for making change to participate in movements while you are anonymous.  At the same time you need to make sure that you are safe from government and from arrested.  Thank you. 

>> ANNE C.:  Olivia.

>> OLIVIA:  I just have a comment.  We've talked about the filters before and who will decide, the adults and then the youth, and then we decided together.  We have a two‑way dialog together because we have different perspectives and different way of seeing things and different ways of being on the Internet.  We have different ‑‑ I don't know what it is called but why don't we just decide it together and talk about it. 

>> ANNE C.:  Thank you

Well, it is 4:01.  We have a question from a remote participant.  Can we just quick hear that? 

>> REMOTE MODERATOR:  Yes.  Connect the audio.  Is it possible? 

>> ANNE C.:  Let's try really quickly, and if anybody needs to leave, please feel free.

>> REMOTE MODERATOR:  Can you hear Jessica?  Are you there?

>> JOSH G.:  Can you hear me? 

>> REMOTE MODERATOR:  Yes, we can hear you.

>> JOSH G.:  My name is Josh Gable.  We are based in Barcelona.  And what I want to do is thank you the first speaker who brought up the issue, you have been talking a lot about rights and obligations.  I want to thank the first speaker that brought up the issue of rights and digital citizenship and thank you for the panel.  But what I want to ask is how can we empower global youth through digital citizenship and two we define the rights of youth as digital citizenships what are their common rights and what are their obligations?  That may be another panel. 

>> ANNE C.:  It may be another panel, Josh, because we need to wrap this one up, but we wanted to ask that question today.  We haven't really had time, but I would suggest that there is the UN convention on the rights of the child which very comprehensively and clearly defines the rights of all children in the world and I could direct your attention to that if that is at all helpful.  Larry, did you want to say something? 

>> LARRY:  Very quick comment.  It struck me, aside from the fact that we're in Turkey it is really extraordinary that in 2014 people from the U.S. and the UK and Europe are actually talking about censorship in their own Country.  This is extraordinary.  Maybe the Internet, as much progress it's made, has taken us backward in the sense that that has become part of the agenda and I for one would like to get beyond it.  I hope that by the time we get to Rio we can be talking about something other than adults trying to interrupt a free speech of children and move on to how we can encourage speech and encourage participation.  I know that is exactly what Anne and others had in mind but the mere fact that that is an elephant in the room in 2014 among advanced countries, let alone in Turkey is a bit disturbing. 

>> ANNE C.:  I want to thank you all for exercising your rights of free expression and for participating here.  There are some ‑‑ there was some really wonderful ideas expressed, and I have written them down, and they will make it into the report that I have to do in 48 hours.

Thank you all for coming.

>> JEREMY:  Just thank you for giving this.  Next door at 440 there is going to be another big workshop, 173 Youth Participation in Internet Governance.  I would just like to make a shout out to advertise in here a bit of commercial time that you guys can take a rest and go to the next room. 

>> ANNE C.:  Yeah, continue the conversation.  Right. 

Thank you. 



This is the output of the real‑time captioning taken during the IGF 2014 Istanbul, Turkey, meetings.  Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.  It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.