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23 OCTOBER 2013





The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the Eigth Meeting of the IGF, in Bali, Indonesia. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

     >> Good morning, everybody. Do we have newcomers? Because this session is meant to be for newcomers.

     Newcomers, could you please just join this roundtable so that we start the session?

     We would like to call this session to order. May I see by a show of hands who are the newcomers? Okay. I think we have more resource persons than the newcomers, which -- yeah. Okay.

     Now, the newcomers, this is your Day 2. What have been your impressions so far of the IGF? Can somebody volunteer and just give us your impressions?

     >> Okay. Hi. My name is Fitri. I am from the host country, Indonesia. Unfortunately, I just arrived today. Actually, I just arrived by today, so this is my first day joining the IGF. I don't think I have a significant impression because I just arrived, but I'm expecting -- because I'm studying for defense management for Defense Ministry in Indonesia, but I am expecting a particular session that I can gain information on cybersecurity. I think that's it. Thank you.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thank you. Okay. Someone else? Impressions?

     >> Council for Google in the Colombia region. This is my first time in the IGF, but I was  -- I was in the Latin American IGF that we had in Cordova a few months ago, and then the last year, because the Colombian government, the technical community organised the regional IGF. So I suppose that some of you have attended the regional IGFs, and I think it's a good opportunity to spread all the ideas or all the messages that we shared in our own regions and see that sometimes we have same concerns, and it doesn't matter if you are in the other side of the world, like me, in this moment. So this is an invitation to share all the ideas or the concerns that you have in your own countries because sometimes you have the surprise that someone from a very different country has the same concerns, and they have a lot of good information, data that you can use it. So this is an invitation to maybe not be shy and have conversations with all the people that you don't know. Maybe you can find very interesting contacts and information for your own projects and ideas.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thank you. Someone else?

     >> Good morning. My I work for the government in Nigeria. I have had a little experience of the Internet Governance scenario because I did some classes with DiploFoundation and had attended the West African Internet Governance Forum.

     Now, my delights in the Internet government are to see a system where bilateral and multilateral agreements are guaranteed.

     Further, providing a platform to run a global governance where all citizens will feel equitable. Here I am sharing good experiences with experienced multi-stakeholder players, and I have been able to network with people that could grow my information base and expand my horizon.

     Thank you.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thank you. Do you want to share your expectations or your impressions.

     >> SUBI CHATURVEDI: Thank you. My name is Subi Chaturvedi. I come from India. I teach at a women's college and run a foundation called Media for Change.

     This is my second IGF. The first one was at Baku, and as someone who has seen this unfold and become a new initiative practice person, to see something like this come together in a seamless manner, which brings people from different cultures, from different spaces, with different problems to solve, and to work in an environment of collaboration and to learn so much every single day, I think it's been a fantastic experience so far for me.

     I am now a member of the Multi-stakeholder Advisory Group, and we hope to put together sessions which benefit people across cultures, communities, and to resolve and address questions of access and diversity.

     I do want to welcome all the new participants because I know the sense of awe. I have been in the opposition and not too recently now. I think it is a wonderful space to be at. However, I do want to say that it can get a little overwhelming because there is simply a lot that is happening. There are many rooms, and there are many topics of interest. I would urge you very strongly to go through the itinerary, to also look at the website and see the workshop sessions that interest you in greater detail that you can divide your time and you can maximize the input that you take that way. A little bit of homework -- being a teacher, I can't help but say that -- always helps and goes a long way.

     I could just -- for tips and tricks, I could get a lot out of the last IGF because I spent some time in my hotel room, even when I was exhausted, after long days and dividing my time and running between workshops, just to look at the workshops and the panelists and what they had to offer.

     I want to leave you with a small example because for us, questions of access mean different things. For India, access would mean putting a billion people who are not connected online and connecting them. But for different people, access defines different things. So look at the workshops from that perspective, and also, I think this is a wonderful melting pot of cultures, and there's just so much to learn from each other, so I welcome you to this beautiful world which is the IGF and about the Internet that we all care so much about.

     Thank you.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thanks, Subi. I know you are supposed to be speaking on behalf of Theresa, so we will be calling on you shortly.

     I think we can now go into the first session, which is we'll have three speakers. The first session will be on Internet Governance principles, and I am not sure -- we've had so many exchanges of emails, I am not so sure now who actually confirmed because on the programme, I have Inga, but I am told it's not there. There is a name -- is it -- anyway, out of the resource persons, who was tasked to speak on that? On multi-stakeholder -- on Internet Governance principles.

     Okay. While we sort that out, Subi, could you please take us through the principles of multi-stakeholder cooperation?

     >> SUBI CHATURVEDI: Sure. I think the Paragraph 39 of the Tunis Agenda talks about different stakeholders, including academia, the technical community, civil society, governments, state actors, people from across different sections who make sure that the Internet is up, running, and functional and accessible and open.

     Some of the core values that we cherish in terms of the Internet itself are openness, interoperability, freedom of speech and expression, permissionless innovation, and all of this can happen and flourish because there are different stakeholders working in different spaces and doing their job and doing their job well.

     A lot of conversations have existed in silos. When we talk about something as exhaustive and important as multi-stakeholderism, which wasn't originally a part of the Tunis Agenda, it is important to understand -- and that is what the Tunis Agenda talks about -- that each of these stakeholders should play and perform their rightful roles and responsibilities. Now, this becomes a tough one, especially for civil society, to become part of these spaces because we do understand that there are certain stakeholders who exercise more power, who have more access to these conversations on governance.

     Let me also take a step back and talk about the two aspects of what we are discussing, Internet and governance. So of course, there is the physical layer and there is the content layer, and there are these conversations, and then there's the commercial aspect of corporates making sure that the private sector provides the infrastructure for content and innovation to happen.

     As far as multi-stakeholderism is concerned, there are many definitions, and during the course of the main focus session that we will run, we will leave it open and see it as a bottoms-up, inclusive, transparent process of coming up with our understanding, our own individual understanding, of multi-stakeholderism, and that's how we've structured the main focus session. So you will see an un-conferencing of the session unfold. There will be no panelists up on the dais. You will have two very capable moderators and facilitators who will go around talking to people, and we will have flip charts, we will have notes passed around, and people will respond where the entire community will respond to questions of multi-stakeholderism and their understanding of multi-stakeholderism.

     So when we say that all the actors have to play their job and their role well, what do we mean by that?

     We do not, for even a moment, disagree that the government has a huge role to play when it comes to facilitating conversations because the Internet is not something which is sovereign. The Internet is transnational. So there are boundaries which are crossed and there are agreements that have to occur. But when we talk about a process that is multilateral vis-a-vis multi-stakeholder, there are privileges. Multi-stakeholderism talks about inclusivity, it talks about transparency, it talks about accountability, and it talks about a process which is, again, bottoms-up, inclusive, and consultative.

     The team theme is building bridges, and we couldn't have articulated it better because it is about understanding problems and about approaching these problems with an open mind, where solutions cannot simply be negotiating, but you can appreciate dissent and you can come to a point of consensus. And this consensus building is what the IGF does, and that is what we hope that the main focus session on multi-stakeholderism and enhancing cooperation can achieve, to hear more, to listen more, and to understand different points of views from cultures which are as different and as similar as they come in terms of region-specific issues, in terms of geographical issues, in terms of people and their own indigenous needs and problems.

     We believe the IGF has a great role to play because it brings different stakeholders to go. It also allows people to ask difficult questions, and it allows governments to respond to those questions and also understand and get a sense of the community.

     So I think it is a beautiful concept in terms of multi-stakeholderism, but yet, because it is so wide and it is so all-encompassing, we have a long way to go in understanding where each of the stakeholders come from, what is the role that we can play.

     For example, governments in the private sector have played a wonderful role in facilitating more participation from developing countries, especially from the youth and women and marginalized communities, especially from vulnerable communities whose voices are often not heard. So I see this session as an important session. I see this session as a crucial session because it feeds into the very core of what the IGF stands for, which is transparent, inclusive, bottoms-up, and not a top-down process. I think it is a wonderful platform to be heard and to make sure that our voices count.

     So that is my understanding of what we will offer. I invite all of you to join us at the main focus session, and if there are any questions, I'll be very happy to respond.

     Thank you.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thanks a lot, Subi. Very well said. You actually pointed out when you started about WSIS process, and I am going to ask Alex Comninos just to expound upon that at least for the sake of newcomers and their relationship to IG.

     >> ALEX COMNINOS: Okay. Does anyone know the context through which IGF arose and how long it's been around? The IGF follows a process which was called the World Summit on the Information Society, and from there, if we want to know about the principles, the WSIS Principles and the Tunis Agenda, so these are the documents, and I think the other issues about principles is we are to a certain extent are here to debate principles, and perhaps that process is open and interpretable. We may come up with new principles. But we are also here to decide how we can turn principles into something deeper.

     But multi-stakeholderism is a principle, for example, and we still need to flesh out what that means and how we can enhance cooperation.

     But perhaps we could have a veteran who has been through these processes to flesh out the principles. I'm sure there's someone in the room. Don't be shy.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thanks, Alex. We'll still come back to the principles if the speaker is available. But at this point, I would like to -- is Patrick around? So you'll speak on behalf of Patrick? Okay. So we'll ask Ana Lucia to talk briefly about the legal and other frameworks that are related to spam, to hacking, and to cybercrime.

     >> Thank you. Well, you know, if we want to talk about spam, hacking, and cybercrime in five minutes, it's impossible. There's a lot of issues around this -- the debate about the relation problems that are behind these kind of issues.

     So I want to mention the relationship between the spam, the hijacking, and security, and all the tools that we have available to protect our accounts and our -- for the hijacking of other kinds of attacks. So it is very important to talk about this relationship with all the tools and all the facilities that we have available to protect our own accounts.

     So I want to highlight that we have a webpage where you can find a lot of information. It is called "it is good to know," and this webpage is a guide to staying safe and secure online. And there's a lot of tapes about how Google security or responsibility or education that we have to explore the security and privacy tools that are available to protect our information. Some things about how to create strong passwords and keep information safe. You know, I'm really surprised at this moment you can see, for example, in a different office, offices in Colombia, people have their own password posted in front of the computer. It's crazy that at this moment, there's a lot of people that they don't care or maybe they don't have the information or how to protect their own information.

     Another -- and you know, all the people that are behind the cyber-attacks, hijacking, they are working in more sophisticated tools to have access to the information. So in the other side, we have the responsibility to protect our own information and our accounts.

     So compared to five years ago, more scams, illegal, fraudulent, or spamming messages today come from someone you know, for example. And this is something that is changing. Maybe five years ago you received an email that looks very suspicious and you say, okay, I don't want -- I am sure that this is spam. But now every day it's more difficult to detect if it's spam or not, is it an attack or not. So this is an invitation to include in that debate during these days the idea of that security is very important. It's a responsibility for all the stakeholders that are here, not only the companies, but we are doing the best that we can, working every day to have stronger tools to protect the data of our clients, but additionally, something that is related to education and to the different stakeholders will be included in this debate about how to protect the information and how to improve the education in our countries and take seriously this idea of the security.

     So I'm going to finish with this invitation. The page is called "it is good to know," and it's available in different languages. You can check all the things that we have in this webpage.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: I forget to mention that Ana Lucia works for Google.

     Now, the newcomers, do you have questions? All is good? Okay, Tijani.

     >> TIJANI BEN JEMAA: I don't have a question; I have a remark. You said that the IGF has principles, and we have to change those principles. And also you said that you -- we can also transform those principles into something deeper.

     I am afraid we will not be able to do so. We will need UN General Assembly resolution to do so because it was decided in the Tunis Agenda to create this IGF with very sharp boundaries. So we are not able to change anything without a UN resolution.

     Thank you.

     >> ALEX COMNINOS: I will make a quick response to the cybersecurity issue. I really liked your talk, Ana, and I like that you bring cybersecurity to the individual level.

     What I also think is important and I noticed this IGF has a lot of talks about cybersecurity, the lady in the corner just talked after this session there are two cybersecurity workshops in parallel.

     What I think is also very important is multi-stakeholderism in cybersecurity. Cybersecurity started off as something that the technical community did, and then when the Internet was commercialized, it became the responsibility of the commercial community. Recently, it's become part of government's responsibilities. What you call that process is actually securitization, whereby something becomes a national security issue.

     But what has been lacking in cybersecurity -- because it is, traditionally, a cybersecurity issue is a true multi-stakeholder discussion, and by which I mean including civil society and netizens. So just a brief point.

     I think the gentleman there has made an excellent point. Perhaps I'm young and a bit naive. One can't make new principles. And if you read any UN document, for example, at the beginning, you will have a preamble where it says reaffirming this principle and reaffirming that principle and reaffirming that principle. So it is very good to work on principles, and of course, if we were to just make our own principles, what the IGF was would disappear.

     Just to critique that, I have heard people say that for the past eight years since the WSIS, we have just been kind of repeating paragraphs, which is a good thing because they're good principles. Now I failed to answer the question before, but the beauty of the Internet is you can take out your favorite search engine and then find the actual document you are looking for. It's better if you have a tablet so someone doesn't see it and they think you know the principles. But I've got them in front of me, and these are the Declaration of Principles on the World Summit on the Information Society. I think it's dated 12 of December 2003. And I suggest you all look at that document. I think if you just search for WSIS Principles, it will come up in your search engine. And I am just going to give the headings here for the Information Society Key Principles.

     And the first principle involves the role of government in promotion of ICTs for development.

     The second principle is information and communication infrastructure as an essential foundation for an inclusive Information Society. I think we can all understand that.

     Access to information and knowledge is a very important principle. It's one of the primary reasons we have the Internet.

     Capacity building is a very important principle, and I think that's needed in all sorts of forums and processes, and it's needed in IGF more than anything else. And this is here an attempt at capacity building.

     Then we have building confidence and security in the use of ICTs. Of course, the Internet wouldn't work, processes wouldn't work, if we didn't have confidence, security, and trust.

     We need an enabling environment. It's all very well to talk about this, but if people don't have access to ICTs, if people don't have access to the Internet, then we really are just talking.

     There's ICT applications must benefit all aspects of life. They must be cult -- there must be cultural diversity, identity, there's principles about media, ethical principles regarding Information Society. There's international and regional cooperation.

     Then there's towards an Information Society for all based on shared knowledge. Now, these are headings. Underneath them all are 67 principles. I suggest we all familiarize ourselves with this document, especially me, and yes, if you want to flesh out these principles into agendas, into policies in the international sphere, perhaps looking forward in the international sphere, then we need to familiarize ourselves with these principles and work out how to flesh them out further.

     Thank you very much for your comment and keeping me on track here.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Tijani, actually -- it's a response to him because we are going to come to --

     >> It's not a response; it's a compliment for what he said. The 11 elements that you are mentioning now are the action lines for building the Information Society. There are 11, and you mentioned them all. And those are for the Summit, if you want the foundation of the Information Society. So can we change anything in that? I don't think so.

     So we have to know them, for sure. We have to build on them if you want. If you want to go further, you have to build on something which is done.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Okay. Thank you, Tijani. Now it's your time to speak briefly about capacity building.

     >> TIJANI BEN JEMAA: Thank you, Grace.

     Grace, I will speak about my workshop that will be held today in the afternoon which is on the Internet as an engine for development and growth. This workshop is organised -- I am organising it on behalf of AFRALO ICANN, and I would like to say a few words about what is AFRALO in ICANN. That is the African regional at large organisation representing regions in Africa. It is one of the five regional at-large organisations in ICANN covering the five regions of the world.

     So if you are a civil society organisation or an NGO or any other kind of association of end users, please join us and help defending the Internet end users' interests in ICANN, and more broadly the public interest.

     Now back to our workshop and back to the World Summit on the Information Society. In fact, the first article of the Declaration of Principles of the World Summit on the Information Society in its first phase in Geneva said that -- I will read it -- the representatives of the peoples of the world assembled in Geneva from 10-12 December 2003 for the first phase of the World Summit on the Information Society, declare their common desire and commitment to build an Information Society that is people centred, inclusive, and development oriented, where everyone can create, access, utilize, and share information and knowledge, enabling individuals, communities, and peoples to achieve their full potential in promoting their sustainable development and improving their quality of life.

     And since Internet is the backbone and the heart of the Information Society, we can easily say that the leaders of the world expressed in 2003 their commitment for an Internet that is development oriented. But ten years after, now, is the Internet serving the development? And if it is not, how can it be an engine for development and growth?

     This afternoon our panelists will answer those questions and will address from various perspectives issues like capacity building, multi-stakeholder model, multilingualism, local content, cooperation, and Internet ecosystem.

     The focus will be put on key points regarding universal access and service policy at the global level, Internet as a driver for youth employment and economic growth in the global south, how education and capacity building can make the Internet serve the development in Africa, the development of rural areas thanks to Internet in the Latin America and Caribbean region, and the role of Internet in creating and developing a sustainable business sector in those regions.

     I will stop here. I want just to remind you that this workshop will be held in Room number 2, Hall 1 today from 2:30 to 4:00 p.m.

Please join us, and thank you.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thanks, Tijani. Do we have comments, quick comments for Tijani? Questions, clarification?

     All right. If there are none -- okay, Subi.

     >> My question is what are the classes of multi-stakeholder that need this capacity building? Because also observed that civil society do not understand the workability of government, so they just throw everything by the government. So how does this capacity building go around the multi-stakeholders?

     No, my question is who are those to be involved in the capacity building among the multi-stakeholders?

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Okay. Tijani, then Subi, then I think Alex.

     >> TIJANI BEN JEMAA: Everyone will be interested in capacity building. Every stakeholder. Capacity building is, I would say, the most important element in the Internet for development in general. We need capacity building for technical staff, technical engineers of the south, so that they are able to choose the best infrastructure for their country, for their situation, for their need, so that they will not be solved, a perception that is obsolete.

     We need capacity building for people at the grass roots so that they can work on a keyboard, they can access the Internet.

     We need capacity building at all the levels. And civil society needs capacity building, and civil society is one of the most important elements of the capacity building. So civil society will be an essential element in the capacity building.

     The government also needs to have the capacity building for their own staff, and also they have to have capacity building for other stakeholders, if you want. So everyone is interested in capacity building.

     >> SUBI CHATURVEDI: I can't agree more with the comments of the previous speaker, not just in terms of interest, but who should be involved in capacity building is a really important question.

     I think when you talk about multi-stakeholderism and true multi-stakeholderism can only actualize when you have an informed community, when you have an able community. I might have all the right intentions, but the way to hell is also paved with the right intentions.

     If there is a skill set and a gap that exists in terms of technical abilities, in terms of content in local languages, in terms of access -- when we talk about access, it's not just the cost of the physical device; it is also what is it we can get out of this wonderful empowering medium that is the Internet? Internet as we see it is a tool. It is technology. It does not mean anything by itself. It is wonderful in terms of carrying information, communication, connecting people. But what we do online is a function of how engaged, how involved, how prepared, and how able we are as a community.

     As far as what can governments do, I think like the national education policy that we have in India, where literacy is an issue, digital literacy is an equally important question. There are people who are online for the first time, they are not literate, but they are keypad literate. And there are about 200 million people India has, which is a unique number. So I have my domestic help, I have the person who delivers milk, he is getting online and he is communicating using applications to deliver services and facilities.

     I think especially in the context of emerging economies in developing countries, governments have a huge role to play, and so does civil society, to create a ripple effect, to create master trainers and master teachers who can connect communities and who can give voices to the unheard. And so does the private sector.

     India has done a unique experiment which is talking about the USSF fund, and this is mobile subscribers paying to bring people from rural communities online and connecting 250,000 villages, local self-governments. I think that is the role that the governments can play.

     So there is need for digital literacy, there is need for capacity building, and each stakeholder can have a role, should be interested, and should be performing their own rightful role.

     Thank you.

     >> ALEX COMNINOS: Hi. I would just like to fully agree that capacity building is a multi-stakeholder process, and I would just like to respond to the suggestion that perhaps civil society does not understand the role of government or how government works, and I think that's quite an unfair and unhelpful statement. I think you could also say possibly that often government doesn't understand how civil society works. But we don't live in separate boxes isolated from each other. Many people in government have been and worked in civil society before and the other way around, as well as the technical community. There's a great overlap. And much of civil society concerns itself with the daily basis on the work that government does and spends a lot of their time at forums like this participating in intergovernmental processes.

     So I can understand definitely we all come from our own institutions and these multi-stakeholder groups can have different cultures and beliefs and values and ways of doing things, but there is understanding between us. We must foster that and we must grow that.

     I think you maybe meant they often do not understand or sometimes they do not understand, but thank you for bringing the issue out, and the capacity building issue is very important, so thank you all for bringing it up.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Okay. There is a gentleman. Please tell us who you are and your affiliation.

     >> I have a comment to do, but I need to do it in French. I said I have a comment, but I need to do it in French. Can I go?

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Do we have someone? Tijani will translate for us. Okay.

     >> (Speaking French)

     >> TIJANI BEN JEMAA: (Speaking French)

     Okay. So the question was what will be the cost of the Internet for people who have elementary needs, such as electricity, water, food, et cetera? Is it possible to have the Internet at an affordable cost for those people? This is a generic question, and it's -- this is the question. You are the Chair.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: I think French is very fascinating because he spoke for about five minutes, and you have only been able to translate in less than a minute.

     I'm not going to respond to that now. But I'm going to go to Pablo and ask him to probably make a response to that and also speak very briefly about the critical Internet resources.

     >> PABLO: Hello. My name is Pablo. I work for APNIC, the AP Internet registry for Asia Pacific. We distribute IP addresses in terms of IPv4 and most importantly IPv6 throughout the region in Asia Pacific. It's very fortunate thing to have IGF in this side of the world, in the Asia Pacific region, and we're very happy to be here. APNIC has historically followed the IGF since its inception, and I would like to say a few words about critical Internet resources. I was thinking about it this morning when I wanted to charge my computer. I think the most critical Internet resource is, obviously, electricity. But anyway, this is a charged concept, and as you can see, there is not much mentioning of the subject at this IGF, but critical Internet resources was, throughout the history of the IGF, a main theme, a main topic since Athens, Hyderabad, Rio, Sharm El Sheikh, and it was also a topic very much during the World Summit on the Information Society. That is actually where the IGF comes from.

     And actually, there was a lot of discussion during the Summit that Internet Governance was about Internet critical resources, and it was absolutely great that a group of experts, when defining the concept of Internet Governance, decided to give the concept much more broader sense, much broader meaning, and included in Internet Governance many other very important topics, not only critical Internet resources.

     What it means, critical Internet resources, during the WSIS process, was basically Internet addresses, domain names, and IP numbers. And it is great to see that the IGF has had a full agenda of diversity of subjects and very important themes that, obviously, are part of an Internet Governance agenda. Obviously, as part of that are Internet addresses, such as domain names and IP numbers.

     This time, it is not a highlight of -- or a main theme in the agenda of the IGF, which I think is good and is an important part, but there are different workshops that have these issues, particularly tomorrow I think a couple of them and a few others on Internet addresses.

     Anyway, this is our historical term, and I don't want to use a lot more time, just to say, hey, critical Internet resources is part of Internet Governance, and it's an important one, but it's not an exhaustive one of the agenda, and there are many other topics as well to talk about.

     I think that's it, and I'm open for questions. There are many from the Regional Internet Registries and the Internet addressing space in this room, as I can see, and probably they can answer questions better than me.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thanks, Pablo. Do we have questions for Pablo?

     We have about seven minutes to get out of this room, and at this point, I want to give the floor to any other person who would want to make an interjection, a clarification, or any comments on the topics that we have discussed today.

     And please introduce yourself and your affiliation. So we'll go to the gentleman over there.

     >> THOMAS SPILLER: Hello. Good morning. I am Thomas Spiller from the Walt Disney Company.

     I just want to come back briefly to the question from our friend from Benin, just switch to French for ten seconds. Okay? That's my mother tongue.

     (Speaking French)

     I was just saying actually there is a workshop this afternoon, number 271, at 4:30 that is going to exactly look at the questions from our friend and colleague from Benin, which is going to be devoted to broadband access, cloud infrastructure, and content for emerging economies. And we have a few speakers from, like, Kenya, for instance. So this is clearly a question which concerns all of us because Subi talked about the main concept about Internet Governance, but as she said rightly, this is a platform. This is a tool. The question is what do we do with it for all of us in emerging or developed economies, and that's one of the issues we are going to look at at 4:30, workshop 271. I know that I am kind of overselling it, but I think this is crucial because I think that we can talk as much as we want about the big concept, but the reality of it, as Subi said with the initiative of villages, is what impact does it make on people's lives every day around the world? And there is so much more we could do if there were more people having access to it, again, in particular, in emerging economies.

     So I am looking forward to the discussion, workshop 271, 4:30, room number 4. Thank you.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thank you. Anyone else? Subi, you want to make some ... and then please remember we need to be out of here in the next few minutes.

     >> SUBI CHATURVEDI: I will keep it very brief. There is a Twitter hashtag, IGF 2013, and people can engage and put in your comments. They are very consciously, sincerely being retweeted so the world can listen to what you have to say about this very important issue, so I encourage you to engage, use social media. And all of us, all the MAG members, all the old and new members, everyone is around in case there are any questions, clarities, or directions. I do want to say it gets a little overwhelming. Please feel free to ask. I think all of us are learning so much more every day. So I think it is a wonderful platform, and I hope all of us can make it better.

     >> GRACE GITHAIGA: Thank you. I think I want to close this session for now and to tell the newcomers that, you know, IGF has a lot of acronyms. Diplo has done a bookmark with all the acronyms. If you can walk to their booth, it's just down the corner. You will get a bookmark with all the acronyms, and they will be useful because this field people talk in terms of acronyms. And if you don't get them now, you might -- you know, the IGF might lose you. So please make that effort.

     So I want to thank all of you for really finding time to come. This is an early session, and the fact that you have sat here patiently. And for the newcomers, there is actually going to be the IGF Principles in this room starting at 9:30, so you are welcome to stay and to learn more. So thank you, everybody, and see you around.







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