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IGF 2010

Note: The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during Fifth Meeting of the IGF, in Vilnius. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.   


>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Good morning, everybody.  My name is Fatimata Seye Sylla.  I'm from Senegal.  And I'm the chair of ICANN At-Large AFRALO.  I'm your moderator today within the workshop on new gTLDs and IDNs for development -- for developing countries I should say.  As you know with the ICANN community, there is a very hard issue, policy development, regarding Top-Level Domains with discussion on the introduction of new gTLDs and implementation of the IDNs.  
GTLDs and IDNs open up opportunities for new services for economic, cultural and social development.  
However, many other conflicts of interest are associated with them.  Especially in the case of developing countries.  Issues such as high, high acquisition costs, scarcity of financial resources, all prevent developing countries, especially those from Africa, from taking full advantage of proper opportunities offered by these developments.  
This is the main concern for Internet users.  The ICANN at large community with the leadership of AFRALO initiated this workshop to give us the opportunity to better understand the new gTLDs and IDNs for developing countries with historical survey on gTLDs and a review of the implementation of the IDN's programme.  
The opportunities they can create, the potential barriers that can prevent developing countries from benefiting from those opportunities and the suggested solutions to overcome the obstacles will be emphasized today.  
But before we proceed, I would like as a chair of AFRALO to call for a round of applause for my friend and brother Mohamed Tijani Ben Jemaa for his work to promote the full participation of African users and Internet Governance models.  He was very disparate when we learned that ICANN will not fund our participation.  But with his determination we fought together to make this workshop happen for Africa and for all developing countries.  
Today we have very experienced speakers in the field of IT engineering and almost every aspect of Internet Governance who will deliver the following presentations.  
The first presentation will be a survey of the structure of gTLDs at the world level.  Advantageous for Internet users by Aziz Hilali.  The second will be the best practices from developing countries that have overcome barriers of obtaining and obtaining a TLD and their benefits by Elaine Pruis.  This will be a remote participation.  Overcoming obstacles for the creation of TLDs in developing countries will be presented by Bertrand De La Chapelle.  And then Khadija Ghariani will talk about experience in these countries ideas and activities timeline Fast Track approach benefits and challenges by Mohamed El Bashir will be our fifth presentation.  
And finally Zahid Jamil will talk about the importance of a developing economy sensitive new gTLDs programme and rollout.  
Each speaker today will have a maximum of ten minutes.  And I would like to have Izumi if possible to be my timekeeper.  Will you do that for me?  Thank you -- yeah, thank you.  
So now let's welcome Aziz Hilali -- excuse me; we have to change the order a little bit.  
Aziz Hilali is a real promoter of Internet development for Morocco and also the Mediterranean Act.  The Mediterranean.  
As a very high level teacher in IT, he will give us a clear presentation of the evolution of the gTLDs and the IDNs based on his experience and research.  Aziz, welcome, you have the floor.  

>> AZIZ HILALI:  Thank you, Fatimata.  My friend Tijani has suggested to me to give this presentation in French but you have the translation to make sure that everyone can follow the presentation I give it in English.  And so please bear with the pronunciation and my strong accent.  
Internet has become in a relatively short time a necessity for today's society.  Because of its growth the Internet has seen it's number of users grew beyond expectations of its founding community to almost 2 billion users worldwide.  
It is also more than 200 million Web sites worldwide.  Internet has changed the way that global things work -- finances work it's estimated that nearly $500 billion are made thanks to Internet the bar of 300 million domain names has been reached in the first quarter of 2010.  1 million new names were registered during the first three months of this year.  
As we look at the map below, we see how Internet users are distributed over the world.  This map provides us an estimate of iteration rates across visions in the world.  
It shows that there is a wide disparity between regions and also within the same region.  According to two figures provided by the sites for the states it appears that North America and Europe are the two most active on the Internet with a penetration rate of around 77%.  Africa and some Asian countries are still lagging behind in Internet use with only 21% for Asia and only 11% for Africa.  
It is interesting to see this table.  These figures are very interesting.  The focus here is one the use of Internet in relation to language.  Internet penetration is the sum of Internet users speaking the language and the total population estimates that speaks that specific language.  Take for example Arabic there are 65 million Arabic speaking people who use the Internet.  This represents 30% of all Internet users in the world out of the estimated 347 million people who speak Arabic.  19% use the Internet.  
The number of Arabic speaking Internet users has grown to 2500% in the last ten years.  
Finally we can see from this table that some languages have now four digit growth.  These languages are Chinese, Arabic and Russian.  These three languages were not included in the top ten just a few years ago.  
These statuses give us insights into the profile of the users of the Internet.  The future users will be significantly different from current users.  These users come from developing countries.  There are multilingual and they are generally not Anglo-Saxon.  This means that there will be need of new content, new languages and new products.  
Our object here concerns the Top-Level Domain on the Internet.  These domain names are located by ICANN they have generated a lot of interest especially with the advancement of new technologies.  As is known the Top-Level Domains are divided into the two distinct categories Generic Top-Level Domain they are open for Internet users worldwide.  And there are geographical extensions Country Code Top-Level Domain that is formed by two letters that correspond to a particular country or geographical area and are raised at the present there are around 200 ccTLDs and 21 gTLDs.  
Here is how -- next, please.  
How are these TLDs are distributed.  The map displayed shows the geographical location.  We can see that the -- there are no gTLDs in Africa.  The only visible gTLDs are TLDs some of which are registered from outside.  Next, please.  
The business of Internet addresses is doing well.  The number of domain names registered worldwide has increased by 11 million this year to a total -- the number of domain names registered worldwide has increased by 11 million this year to a total of 193 million registered worldwide according to VeriSign against 153 million in 2007 and only 10 million in 2000 and barely 1 million in 1997.  
The domain is still growing.  The annual growth of gTLDs estimates at 6% and the TLDs actually 3.2%.  This annual growth is calculated over the period 2007-2010.  VeriSign is the head -- VeriSign registers the most with the generic extension that's common which alone represents more than half of the registered names.  This is now a portion of 100 million.  The market should also undergo -- the introduction to IDN policy.  The IDN policy has been one of the main ICANN challenges has tested the international integration.  IDN have been notified by ICANN at the end of 2009 after many years of work developing specific technologies needed of that development.  Several countries are preparing to open their IDNs from the domains that are early in operation.  
Here you have the cost where you're applying the users TLD it's cost $185,000.  This cost distributes as shown on the table.  
It will allow candidates from developing countries to be able -- as we saw earlier, Africa is lagging behind because of the Digital Divide Africa is going to grant support and allow extra application from TLD from African countries with the ICANN Board adopted resolution to be provided for applicants for new entities that new assistance in operating a domain name.  It's a -- there's a Working Group being created with the main objective to identify the criteria for such support.  The importance of such an opportunity the African ICANN community has prepared statesmen on the expectation of Africa from resolution 2020 they adopted in Brazil.  
This will allow candidates from developing countries to be able to enter this and it's generated out of money.  The new IDN technology will enable the population of developing countries to use the Web in their own language.  People who must use their model tongues only will be able to type in the browser area in their known language and that benefits the use of Internet for IDN development.  Content and applications in local languages should be developed.  
On the other hand, the governments of these countries are expected to invest in infrastructure developments and ICT services.  And finally, they must establish mechanisms improving accessibility such as stable community access centres.  
(Applause) thank you very much as a good teacher he really gave us a speech on new TLDs and IDN and also the way they are being implemented throughout the world.  
And here again we can see that Africa is, you know, very much not well represented at all.  And when we talk about the language, I mean the users versus language within the -- in the world, we cannot see real African language on the figures we have.  And as he said, no gTLD in Africa, Africa is lagging behind because of the Digital Divide.  We have to work very hard together to make this change.  We're going to give the floor to Elaine Pruis.  

>> We have just managed now to get the technical thing working so if we can actually move her after the next speaker.  Is that okay.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  Yes, let's do that.  

>> Just to make sure everything is working.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: So this is going to be -- someone will be very happy.  And that's Bertrand De La Chapelle because he wanted to be one of the first ones to make his speech so now let's welcome Bertrand De La Chapelle very active promoter in the IGF involved in the progress since the beginning of the WSIS.  A real multistakeholder man I'll just say.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: With a strong experience in the three sectors.  Public, private and Civil Society.  
He was recently selected by the ICANN NomCom to serve on the ICANN Board of Directors.  Is that right?  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Please read his bio or just Google his name and you'll see full of -- several pages talking about his commendations.  Bertrand, you have the floor.

>> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  Thank you very much.  And thanks to Tijani for having organised this workshop.  I think it's a very important topic.  And I would like to not make a presentation or lecture but highlight a certain number of issues that I've encountered.  Actually in the very recent weeks and months regarding this topic.  
And the first thing is it is very, very interesting for somebody who has mostly moved around in Roman language spaces like using the Latin alphabet to be confronted to the question of what happens when you are in spaces where you don't speak not only the language but you don't even understand the writing.  Not that I've never been in two countries where -- either in China or elsewhere where you don't understand that.  But I was more recently in Ukraine for the IGF Ukraine which was a very, very interesting exercise and Cyrillic is a very closed alphabet.  It's the same structure of many common characters.  So it should be very similar or very close.  But the moment you get the business card where you cannot read the name, you are just looking at the e-mail address.  And the e-mail address is still in Latin characters and then suddenly you're thinking:
Wait a minute.  When this is going to be written in Chinese, how am I going to take the card and put it in my browser if I don't have that.  
The reason why I mention this is because it helps to understand what a lot of people in a lot of countries must have felt for the last 20 years.  
Of course the Latin character alphabet is easier to learn in a certain way.  I mean just a few strings.  
But it has been a strong imbalance.  And I remember a discussion between the Board and the GAC a couple of -- about a year, year and a half ago where the real question was:  Should there be IDN or should there not be IDN and the question was it is about a right.  There is a question of equality of treatment there.  
It brings problems.  And I will address that.  I mean we shouldn't hide it.  It brings problems.  Not only technical.  But it is fundamentally a question of balance.  And equilibrium in the capacity of people to access this.  
And I've been very active in the IDN ccTLD Working Group that established the Fast Track.  It was a very big debate.  I'll give you a very concrete point.  And I don't know if Henrik Spang is in the room.  He was earlier.  We had early fights about one very fundamental question which is:  Is the Fast Track done to just help those who are super ready like the ones who were on the starting blocks.  They have the string.  They have the table of variants they have the registry upgrader.  They are basically just waiting for getting it or is it about allowing the introduction of those who are maybe not completely ready but to allow them to get -- completely ready but to allow them to get in and this boiled down to a very, very simple sentence in the document which was whether we request that the applicant be the delegated or the nominated registry in the country, which meant that it had to be identified in advance.
Or could it be the Government or some structure just raising their hand and saying you know we intend to have a string.  This is the string we want.  We don't have the registry yet.  But welcome in the game.  Maybe it will take one year or so.  
Fortunately in the end, that's what was chosen.  And this allowed a large number of people in Sharm El Sheikh last year to say:  We are going to apply.  And the fact that they could all raise their hand and indicate the intention even if some were more ready than the others allowed to put people on the more equal visibility.  Because otherwise we would have had just the good students who are so ready to get in and there were good students and ready and for God sake they needed it and they deserved it.  But it allowed everybody to say:  We are all here to get into this new territory.  
And if I mention this, it's because it was a major policy choice.  And ICANN after a long discussion on the cross community basis has made the good decision I think.  Because it allowed people to raise their hand and to get into the game.  
The other thing is IDNs and new TLDs are an opportunity for communities to emerge.  I always believe the establishment of a new TLD is a freedom of association matter.  Among other things.  It was a way for communities to be present at the global level, even if they are very tiny or spread all around the world.  
If you think about it, a new TLD is a fascinating tool and I think .cat has been a great example of that for communities that are spread on a non-territorial basis.  And so when we get into IDNs, gTLD IDNs do not have to be only -- I hope they will be, also.  But they don't have to be only a .sport in Chinese or in Russian.  They also could be strings for smaller communities so that they have a place to self identify and promote the language.  
The fascinating thing that I like about .cat is because it has strengthened the language of the Catalan language online.  
This is very important but we have to be careful on IDNs because we are pairing very much attention to IDN ccTLDs and it's very good but we shouldn't be satisfied with having a space in IDN that would be more or less exclusively ccTLDs.  Because I give you a very concrete example if you're a company and you want to register the name of your company for a web site in the Arabic space -- okay -- there will be a very big challenge if you have to register only in every single country whereas you would be happy to have I don't know the equivalent of a .com or something in your specific space in Arabic.  Because time is short I think it's a very important subject.  I don't want to delve into too much detail regarding the obstacles of price and technical requirements.  I'm afraid I don't have a good solution.  But I'm afraid that because we were trying to make sure that every applicant was really strong and really viable, we have put a burden -- or we are putting currently a burden on applicants from developing countries that may be a little bit high.

I don't have a good solution.  Because we cannot have distinctions that are two precise because then people get around them.  I know the problem.  
But there really is a challenge for somebody in a developing country to have the fee and the technical requirement and so on.  
One element is probably to distinguish more clearly between the TLD operator and the backend registry provider.  But I don't want to get into that.  
What I want to highlight as an element of conclusion is some paradoxes and some challenges.  
There are two paradoxes.  The paradoxes the more the Internet spreads and is used by millions and millions and now billions of people, paradoxically the more diverse it becomes in terms of values.  Cultural, political, religious and so on.  
And so the more it spreads, the more we need rules and principles for managing the co-existence in this common space.  Because otherwise, there is a huge danger of confrontation.  And I say it very carefully because the Internet is an extremely powerful tool for spreading information, for spreading understanding.  
It can be also a very powerful tool for spreading hatred.  And I could have a very powerful vision of a world when social networks are used to coordinate action to fight against another community.  
This is something we need to prevent.  So rules for co-existence are very important not only on the content.  But this is a challenge that ICANN is facing in the rules for the new gTLD introduction particularly when we're talking about sensitive strings.  Applicability of national laws and so on.  There's a whole Working Group on morality and public order at the moment that is working to update the draft Applicant Guidebook.  
We will have -- we will need -- there's very, very good work going on.  Okay.  We will need to have the feedback in the very coming months from very, very diverse parts of the community on how to handle the question of sensitive strings.  
And finally, in one word another paradox is as we increase the use of IDNs to promote inclusiveness, the example I was giving with the business card is actually an element not of fragmentation but of recreation of virtual territories around script spaces.  So it's a fascinating avenue and I'm looking forward to discussing that.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Bertrand.  Thank you very much for this -- Bertrand  thank you very much for this very important message.  Bertrand, very important issues we have to deal with.  Mainly distinguishing the TLD, the Top-Level Domain operators and the end users.  
Thinking about rules for co-existence, making sure we will have feedback from the community and here we can see his sensitivity about inclusiveness.  Use the IDNs to promote inclusiveness.  I think these are really good hints, Bertrand.  And we will thank you about this.  I'm sure we will have questions and comments later on.  Tijani, you have something to say.


>> Use the microphone.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Can you take -- not now.  

>> TIJANI BEN JEMAA:  Since Bertrand wants to leave before we finish --

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: No, he's staying with us.

>> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  I'm staying a little bit actually before the end because my Minister is arriving.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  The Minister will wait.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you very much.  
So is Elaine ready or should I give the floor to Khadija.

>> I think we can make an attempt with Elaine.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Let me give the floor to Khadija -- or are you done.

>> Elaine, can you speak?  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: I can see her.  

>> Go ahead, please.  We'll troubleshoot.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  So -- okay.  Khadija, let me introduce you.  
So I want everybody to follow here with me.  This is a special lady we have here.  Khadija is a telecom engineer.  And today she's the Secretary-General of Arab ICT Organisation.  I'm proud of you, Khadija for your brilliant studies in Korea in the field of ICT and Africa.  And also your involvement in the Civil Society Movement.  Khadija, you have the floor.

>> KHADIJA GHARIANI:  Thank you, Fatimata.  Good morning, everybody.  I would like to address first my warmest thanks to my friend Tijani Ben Jemaa for giving me this opportunity to share with you some opportunities about very important topic, namely new TLDs and IDN for development for the Arab region.  
If you don't mind, I would like to start my contribution by introducing to you AICTO, a younger organisation.  AICTO is an Arab Government organisation under the ages of the league of Arab States.  And it's been operational since the first of 2008.  And AICTO is located in Tunisia.  
Our objectives are developing ICT and providing the necessary tools to reenforce cooperation and complementarity for members and for providing ICT development in the region and then overseeing the private sector role and encouraging its participation in all AICTO activities.  

>> I'm trying to actually pipe it into WebEx as well so remote participants can check it but it requires manipulation.  

>> KHADIJA GHARIANI:  And also encouraging Arab for ICT investment in the region.  
Different organisations of AICTO are the General Assembly the supreme authority with the organisation.  It's composed of all member countries.  And meets once a year.  
We have -- yes.  
Of course the actual president, Her Excellency Hadja Aissatou Bela Diallo, Minister of Communication Technologies, Tunisia.  
AICTO is of course a membership of Arab countries and also associate members like private and public companies, ICT regulator, communication network operators, hardware manufacturers, software developers and ICS association also it's for governmental and also it's open for private sector and Civil Society.  
Our Action Plan is within the scope of the WSIS recommendation and the Arab strategy for ICT building the Information Society up to 2011.  We are a Working Group.  We start with three Working Groups.  One for e-content development.  The second for technologic competence and the third electronic certification and cybersecurity.  
Our project we are working on Arab e-content development, mobile TV in the Arab region and the forum and of course other projects like the other regions Arab region is deeply concerned about the Internet Governance issues and other stakes and challenges are very important on the economic level and for development.  
Indeed the Internet stimulates innovation, enables e-business and therefore facilitates economic development.  
The ccTLDs just like others are part of the buzzing infrastructure in the region.  
The new -- creation of new gTLDs will help create an additional space dedicates to the Arab region for new edification and development opportunities.  
Also, this should offer many new opportunities and benefits for Internet users around the world to establish and use domains in their native language.  
But like Bertrand said, there's a lot of obstacles and I think in order to enable the Arab region for a single international challenge in the field of Internet it's very important that we use the remaining inequities in the field of access, use, content and cost.  
And also, the more TLDs, the more money to make and -- for economic development.  The solutioning I think for access and for availability of our Web sites and Arabic content the availability for good quality infrastructure, also.  
And the new TLD for development for e-business, it's very important for development and for of course creation and trust by using a single specific domain name.  
IDN for development and .arab, this will offer many new opportunities like I said and benefits for Internet users around the world.  And an important obstacle, the introduction of IDN ccTLDs require financial resources for ccTLD support.  
And also lack of skills in developing countries so blocks the management of scarce resources such as domain names considered as national sovereignty.  
And thank you for your attention.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: She has a couple of minutes left, right?  Thank you, Khadija.  
Again, she presented the views and vision of the Arab countries about the gTLDs and the new gTLDs.  She also talked about the work that's being done with the leadership within the AICTO world.  
She mentioned the obstacles and also mentioned some ways of overcoming those obstacles.  And I think we'll go over these obstacles and the suggestions to overcome these through our discussions.  
If Elaine is ready.

>> Yes.  One minute.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: If not, we can maybe go take --

>> She just needs to be unmuted.  And it's got to be synchronized with everybody at the same time.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  And with Elaine, I would like to say something.  Usually in developing countries and mainly in Africa, we usually say that women are not very IT people.  But today with Elaine, with Khadija we can say:  Who said women were behind when it comes to IT?  
Did you know that Elaine handled the technical policy and business aspects of registry operations for more than eight years?  
Also a very familiar with ICANN issues related to TLDs.  And this is why we have her today.  She's going to talk about her case studies so Elaine, if you are unmuted, we would like you to make your presentation.  Ready?  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Great, thank you very much.  There's a bit of delay in the sound from you to me.  So hopefully the feedback won't be too confusing.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Go ahead, Elaine, are you okay?  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  So I'm joining you today from Washington in the United States.  I wish I could be in Vilnius with you but I have to stay here to fulfill my civic obligations through jury duty.  The judge won't let me off this time.  
A brief introduction of my experience.  I work with Top-Level Domains from the registry side of the industry over the last decade I've worked with more than 20 countries, some on every continent but Antarctica and technical infrastructure policies and the commercial aspects of running a Top-Level Domain.  
The populations of countries I've worked with range from millions to less than a thousand.  And my current position at Minds and Machines, I provide the same registry services to clients that will apply for and run new Top-Level Domains.  
I'm an active ICANN participant and currently on the Working Group that's developing a support proposal for disadvantaged new gTLD applicants.  
The new gTLD programme will expand choice and create opportunities for innovation and new services.  And this expansion of choices for Top-Level Domains will allow easier access to those currently marginalized by an English speaking language dominated World Wide Web.  Yet there are barriers to acquiring and operating a new Top-Level Domain.  
We have already heard about the financial, technical and administrative requirements that could be beyond the scope of those who would benefit the most from this increased choice in innovation.  
So I want to take my time this morning to briefly describe two case studies where developing countries have overcome these barriers and utilized this incredible resource for economic development in the good of their community.  Sharing these experiences show that the barriers of obtaining and maintaining a Top-Level Domain are not too great to overcome.  And the benefits to society are worth that very effort.  

The first example is the country Haiti.ht.  I'm sure you are all aware that Haiti suffered a devastating earthquake the building in when the Haiti infrastructure was housed was demolished by this quake.  Yet the Haiti Top-Level Domain continued to resolve making it possible for rescuers and families and communities to stay in touch by e-mail and the Internet.  
As they monitored the communications coming out of Haiti in the days following the earthquake I marvelled at the messages flying back and forth even on Facebook with messages posted about which family members had been found, who still needed rescue and where people could go to find food, water and medical help.  
Keeping Haiti live on the Internet was possible because the Haiti operators had planned for disaster.  First they divided control of the registry operations so that multiple parties, the universities, the Government and the private companies, would have access and control.  And that ensured no single point of failure could completely bring down their operations.  Second having a backup registry database at a second location -- in this case out of the country -- ensured the registry could be hot swapped.  Which means being brought back up in seconds if the country location failed.  
And finally, distributing the DNS through any cast providers or points all around the world ensured that Haiti domains could still be reached even if one place failed.  
Because the Haiti operators diversified and received services from outside their country they were able to keep Haiti operational through one of the worst natural disasters ever experienced.  
The second example country is one that uses their Top-Level Domain for the benefit of their community.  This is a new nation state.  A post conflict island country with very immature infrastructure.  The history of technology has outsourced the operations of their TLD to a not-for-profit cooperative that works completely on cost recovery so the operations cost the country nothing.  
This is a temporary arrangement until the country stabilizes and a robust and stable Internet structure can be put into place.  
In the meantime the revenue from the domain registration is used to support the island infrastructure and buildup even though the island has a mobile phone system in place basically totally skipping over the land lines for the masses, it is a mountain stream so coverage is spotty at least.  I want to tell you a true story here.  
The nurses in the clinics and the village used to have to climb trees and ladders to get a signal in order to call the city doctors and hospitals to get a diagnosis for their patients.  
The revenue from the domain registrations was recently used to purchase satellite dishes and the village clinics were provided with those dishes.  Now the nurses no longer have to climb to the highest point within their clinic area to be able to communicate with their associates in the city.  Satellite dishes provide clear and reliable linkup even over the Internet so that the nurses can clearly communicate immediately with the city hospitals and doctors when they need assistance.  They may even send electronic medical records and pictures of their patients to ensure a more accurate diagnosis and treatment plan.  
We have heard that acquiring a new Top-Level Domain will be quite expensive.  The introduction of several new IDNs, Generic Top-Level Domains, might confuse the user but I think overall the added benefit to a country, it's community and it's economy of Top-Level Domains added access to the Internet for communities and population will be a great benefit.  
I encourage anybody in the audience that's considering operating any Top-Level Domain or expanding their current TLD to work through any apparent barriers there are many experienced organisations that provide free or low-cost services to operators in emerging markets and I'm available to answer any questions that might come up about the examples I've given or if you need connections to one of these providers.  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you very much, Elaine.  For this brilliant presentations.  Sometimes we got some problems understanding -- I got problems understanding what you were saying.  But I think the script people and the audience could capture everything you said.  
I know you talked about your own experience handling gTLDs and ccTLDs.  
You also explained the cases -- two cases.  And I was really impressed by the Haiti case.  And I think around the world during the earthquake and after the earthquake people were really amazed how come Haiti was still up and people still kept communicating.  So thank you very much, Elaine.  And I think we can now open the floor for questions -- for a few questions for these four presentations.  Before we take the two remaining ones.  So the audience will have the floor.  We would like to take five questions maybe.  The first round of five questions.  If you have questions or comments to make.  Tijani?  So Tijani is No. 1.  Bertrand.  Izumi.  Three.  While Elaine gave such a good case that everything is clear.  Your name, Keisha.  
Okay.  So Tijani, you have the floor.  But before you speak, we will give a round of applause.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: To Tijani for making this happen.  

>> TIJANI BEN JEMAA:  Thank you.

>> Give your full name and country, also for the transcript.  

>> TIJANI BEN JEMAA: Tijani Ben Jemaa from Tunisia.  Is that okay?  

>> Fantastic.  

>> TIJANI BEN JEMAA:  I would like to ask all of the speakers to tell us:  What is the direct relationship between the new programme and the IDN?  What is the direct impact on the development?  And very -- in very simple words so that people understand how new gTLDs and how IDN can impact the development.  
And also, I want them to tell us:  Will new gTLDs and IDN impact the development of the developing countries and the poor communities?  And if not, why?  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Yes, thank you, Tijani.  Bertrand?  

>> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  Maybe take the other questions.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  Izumi, are you ready for your question or comment?  

>> IZUMI AIZU:  Yeah, for me it's not only for the developing countries per se that are disadvantaged, especially given the proposed 2% cross ownership restriction which we hope will be changed quite dramatically.  Most of the say potential gTLD operators in Japan or in East Asia are grappling because it's more the at risk communities who are much more interested in getting into the registry business.  
So effectively, the cross ownership is being prohibited in such a way that as proposed.  It only perhaps benefits the incumbent risked areas and the whole west will not be likely to get it.  So it's not only the application fee thing which is a big thing but other areas we have to get into how to really ensure the level playing field for all is a mutual concern.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Izumi, for this contribution.  
Keisha?  And we have a fifth person, Elaine.  Elaine?  
>>KEISHA TAYLOR:  Hi, everyone, thanks very much for your presentations.  Elaine, you spoke about Haiti.  And the introduction of how -- the introduction of Top-Level Domain Name how it helped with the disaster or I should say -- my name is Keisha Taylor and I'm from TechSoup Global.  I was wondering if you have any information on the introduction of .ngo because I know there's been a lot of discussion surrounding that and that's also relevant with countries with respect to transparency with that sector.  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Keisha.  Bertrand?  

>> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  Yeah, I just wanted to ask a question following Tijani's presentation regarding .arab whether it's going to be considered as .arab like this, which is particular TLD or territorial TLD like the league of our upstates and geographically bounded registration policy.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you.  Good question.  
The last question will be for Elaine.  Elaine, you have the floor.  

>> I'm not sure she can hear us.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  She's smiling.  Elaine, are you there?  Can you hear us?  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Hello, can you hear me.


>> Yeah, we can hear you.

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Hi, sorry.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Yes, you can ask your question.  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Yes.  Okay.  So the -- oh, I'm sorry; I was going to answer the two questions that had been posed.  I don't have one.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  So go ahead. Yes, go ahead, Elaine, you can answer the two questions.  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Thank you.  Okay.  Tijani asked about the impact of IDNs on new gTLDs.  And how that would affect the community.  In my view the Internationalized Domain Names will reach a market that the current Roman character coupled domains have not been able to access.  
So I think that rather than saying IDNs will fully take the place of current gTLDs or Country Code Top-Level Domains, I think they are complementary.  And as was expressed by a previous speaker, the number of for instance Arabic speakers in the world, there are millions that are currently disenfranchised by an English-only type of Internet.  
So I believe that the introduction of IDNs is actually going to be an opening of a market that is just eager and ready to be on the Internet.  
The second question that was posed about my case study of Haiti, because Haiti, the Top-Level Domain.HT was still even able to resolve during a natural disaster, millions of people were able to stay in contact with their loved ones.  People were saved.  Aid was delivered.  
We have heard about the introduction of a .ngo Top-Level Domain.  Myself, I've heard of at least two parties that are considering applying for a .ngo.  And I guess the concept there is you would have NonGovernmental Organisations acquiring a domain name like redcross.ngo and the use of such a Top-Level Domain might be that people who are contributing to charities, they might feel secure in going to redcross.NGO.  Maybe there's a safety element.  And going to an official NGO Top-Level Domain Name.  But we have also seen in contribution to ICANN public comments from Red Cross it self that it's considering applying for a Top-Level Domain that might be even Red Cross.  And there are all sorts of uses for them to have their own Top-Level Domains.  
So I think it will be very exciting to see how that opportunity evolves.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you.  Thank you very much, Elaine.  Maybe Bertrand would like to give an answer to Tijani's question?  

>> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  Yeah, thank you, Fatimata.  A few quick comments.  
The first element is that IDN gTLDs are the orphan programme of the general expansion of the domain name.  We have two issues.  One is the transliteration of existing gTLDs, which is an issue that has not been addressed as such.  It is a delicate issue.  I understand.  But it has to be addressed.  And the second thing is IDN gTLDs cause specific problems or specific questions.  And they probably are not very visible in the whole debate today.  We're debating about a lot of Roman domain names.  Which is very good.  
But I'm not sure there are many applications.  Will they raise specific problems?  We don't really know.  
The second element to Tijani's question is regarding the impacted development, I think it mostly depends on how we consider or what we consider the domain name system to be.  If we consider that it is a pure market trusted market, then the impact on development will be what markets have on development.  Sometimes it's very good.  Sometimes it's not sufficient.  Sometimes it's a detriment.  
If on the other hand we consider that it's mostly a common pool resource that we're trying to manage, then we have the possibility to develop a policy.  And I think we are nearing that.  That balances the very legitimate desire to have huge economic activities and I hope in developing countries some major actors will emerge as major actors of trustees but to make sure that we facilitate an and even support more struggling actors.  But I would like to pick up also on what Izumi was saying.  I think he is right.  The current vertical integration arrangement of rule is in many countries going to disenfranchise from the possibility of applying.  The very people were the only -- well the only ones that have a little bit of competence in the management of a DNS system and furthermore, there are a certain number of cases where if you want to have a local TLD, if there is no registrar available in your country, you might have a huge problem distributing it if the vertical integration forces you to really have a separation.

So I think the question of vertical integration should not address in the same way TLDs that are very global, that have a huge market orientation and the TLDs that are going to be local and in particular in IDNs.  I mean where everything has to be built.  This should be kept in mind.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Bertrand.  Khadija.

>> KHADIJA GHARIANI:  Thank you, also, to Tijani's question.  I think now ICT sector is considered in the Arab region not like technical sector.  But like sector of development.  
And so new gTLDs and IDNs is very, very important in the Arab region.  Because most of -- there are first things because there's a lot of programmes in each Arab countries there's a programme of e-gov, a programme of developing of e-health, e-education.  And so a lot of Arab people don't speak another language.  Speak only Arab language.  
So they can't use these applications on the Internet.  And for this reason, developing new TLDs, in Arabic, it's very, very important.  
I think it's the most -- it's considered not -- it's considered not economic but especially like developing project.  Project of .arab and Nokta Arab is considered like a project of development.  
For your question, of course gTLDs and IDN .arab and Nokta Arab is the first geographic domain.  And also language, too.  There are two things but first geographic I think.  

>> Can I finally ask the question, would somebody --

>> Mic.

>> Sorry; the question was for instance if somebody was based in California or in China but was from Arabic origin who speaks Arabic and wants to register a domain name at the second level in Arabic or in .arab, can you do it.

>> KHADIJA GHARIANI:  Yes, of course you can do it.  Yes.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  Khadija, do you have an answer for Tijani?  

>> KHADIJA GHARIANI:  Yes.  I think I've answered Tijani.  Is it okay, Tijani?  

>> TIJANI BEN JEMAA:  I intended to make you say that even if it is a real factor or a real element of development it will not give the better results.  Because a lot of elements.  
First, the cost -- how many applications will come from the developing countries?  How many applications will come from the poor communities?  
There is a lot of problems.  There is the problem of cost, there is the problem of technical requirement.  IPv6.  So I'm not pessimistic.  But I don't think we will get the results that we want.  We will not impact really the development.  I'm sorry.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Aziz?  No?  Is that all?  Okay.  I will take two.  And then we will have the -- I'll take two more.  Yeah.  Introduce yourself, please.

>> EMILY TAYLOR:  I'm Emily Taylor, I'm a member of the of MAG.  I'm very interested in these discussions and about identifying potential barriers to developing countries or people from developing countries who wish to have a TLD.  And one of the -- one other barrier that I'm not sure we have really discussed very much and I would like to hear people's views on is the complexity of the process itself.  And the necessity to have a very high level of knowledge and the ability to navigate through that process is necessarily a barrier not only to non-English speaking people but also participants and applicants from developing countries and I would love to hear people's comments.  I'm seeing a lot of nods.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Emily.  That's something nobody has raised before.  Thank you for this input.  Fouad Bajwa?  

>> FOUAD BAJWA:  Thank you for these presentations.  Very nice.  And I want just to ask Tijani about technical aspects.  
Under the model we discussed about the aspect of ISP and Internet provider, to say -- I don't know that this is a solution.  But to say that all technical aspects of new TLD they can be solved by Internet providers and also the other technical expertise.  And just to allow other applications can use the new TLD.  They talked about that.  I don't know if this is a good solution or not.  I think it's just -- I don't know if you have experience with that.  
But in our experience that we have now, I don't know, that education I will share with you.  Can we have -- that is possible to use new TLD without to have ccTLD?  Because that is a problem in the country where ccTLD is not managed by the country.  I know it's possible to use the new TLD.  That is the question.  Not from me but many people in the country ask that question if this is possible.  That's the question.  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  Thank you.  May I repeat your question?  I mean, let me try to repeat the question.  
You're asking if the gTLD will be managed by someone in the country like the ccTLD?  

>> We've got to have the ccTLD domain -- code country --
>>FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Yeah, Country Code TLD.

>> Yeah.  If this -- if the country don't manage that code country.  That is possible to have a new TLD in the country.  That's the question.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  I have three more hands.  Plus one.  Are you going to start, please.  
So Izumi, you have one minute.  Bertrand will have one minute.  What's your name.

>> Fatimata, Elaine wants to . . .


>> Elaine wishes to provide an answer, as well, to one of the questions.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Elaine?  Okay.  
So Izumi, you have one minute.

>> IZUMI AIZU:  Thank you.  To follow what he said under Bertrand's reply, what I meant is if you could say reasonably regulate the stronger players or in the EU I believe you have significant market player regulatory regime on the telecom side so if you have the largest registry or one of the largest registrars, then you are not really allowed to exercise that market dominance or power for the other side.  
So likewise, if you're the small player in the developing countries, if it's a monopoly inside your country but you're a small player outside globally then you are more than welcome to use your expertise to enter into the new gTLD.  
Other kind of a thinking that we need to consider.  That's all I want to say.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you.  Bertrand?  

>> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  Yeah, very quickly to follow up on Emily Taylor's remark regarding the complexity of the programme.  
On the one hand, I fully agree.  But at the same time, we must give credit to the process and also to ICANN that the amount of information and the amount of documentation is also a reflection of the forwardness by we ex -- we explored this the analogy I make often when you look at the preparatory work for any kind of law in the national parliament it's piles of documents that explore every single aspect.  The challenge we have and we still have the time to move forward is when the communication will be made about that.  When it will explain the programme actually when you look at it in the general framework, it's relatively simple.  
There are issues that are related to the string.  There are issues that are related to who is going to be the delegated operator.  And there are issues that are related to how is the operation going to work.  
This is very easy to understand.  And the work that has been done was certainly not lost and I participated in several of the Working Groups, it's a huge amount of work but the apparent complexity today is not necessarily going to look this way for the applicants at least I hope and I have to apologize for having to --

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you.  

>> ZAHID JAMIL:  I think some of the points that were made are very important we're concentrating on how important it is to get a new gTLD for somebody with .arab which is fine but what we haven't gotten into what is about the disruption for the Arab Bank or any of the banks when there's a .arab there's a .bank, there's a .arabic in Arab and what would the confusion in those issues create so absolutely I think the new gTLD process to actually get a TLD is very complex and I agree that it will create complexities and cost implications and many issues that will relate to actually getting ahold of a TLD but other than that all together what if I don't want the new TLD what will happen to me as a developing country personal business when all of these mass rollouts of new TLD will take place and I will have to as a local business or Civil Society or small NGO or as a blogger going to have to set up multiple Web sites have to go out and buy all these different Web sites just so nobody else can have fossilbank.bank be fossilbank.arab and my only option is to go for a resolution which will cost me a lot of money as a developing country of course so this is a comment not a question.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, very important and very impressive comment.  Dennis?  

>> DENNIS JENNINGS:  Thank you.  I'm Dennis Jennings and a member of the ICANN Board.  There seems to be some confusion about ccTLDs and IDN ccTLDs and gTLDs and IDN gTLDs and whether you can have any of these if you don't have a ccTLD or a ccTLD managing your country.  
I think it's very important to clarify at that very basic level that you don't have to have a ccTLD you don't have to use a ccTLD to use a gTLD so the question of whether you're ccTLD is managed inside your country or not is not relevant when considering access to gTLDs.  
It's important I think to clarify that IDN ccTLDs and that Fast Track process is well under with a way.  It exists and will exist but IDN gTLDs will exist and it's up to people for an open opportunity to apply for them and there seems to be a little confusion about these opportunities.  
I have more confidence I must admit in the entrepreneurial ability of people around the world to pick up this opportunity than maybe many of the participants here.  So I think you're going to see a lot of interesting people that will assist in the developing world.  One thing that wasn't touched on and is extremely important is the whole question of language and scripts and script language tables and confusion.  And I would be very interested in -- I hope there will be some discussion about this week with expertise in the various language are doing to ensure there isn't a whole lot of confusion about non-standard -- whatever that means because standards in this area are different non-standard script tables for different TLDs in a different language which is a potential that I believe must not happen.  So I'm sorry I covered a lot.  First of all I want to clarify any confusion there is about the multiple opportunities.
And secondly to raise the question about language.  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you very much, Dennis, this is very important indeed.  I think Elaine has something to say.  And that will be it for this first round of discussions.  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Yes, thank you.  Well, basically a comment on three of the subjects brought up.  The complexity of the programme in Nairobi the ICANN Board passed a resolution with the community to develop a programme that would help disadvantaged applicants and that particular Working Group has recognized that the complexity of the Applicant Guidebook, the fact it's written in English.  The fact it has deep technical requirements could cause barriers to entry.  
And so this Working Group is developing recommendations and finding ways to support these disadvantaged applicants in getting through these particular processes.  
So it's not just a matter of not being able to acquire the 185,000 US dollar application fee but also dealing with translation issues.  Finding pro bono attorneys to help with the legal frameworks.  
So we are aware of this issue.  Within the ICANN community and are working on it.  
The second thing -- the question about using a ccTLD or a gTLD or an IDN G or C TLD, an interesting thing to note is that the gTLDs, Generic Top-Level Domains, have a different set of rules than a ccTLD might have.  Each country is able to develop their own policies about registration.  And use so that's something to consider if you are Fossil Bank which policy framework you would like to participate in.  If we have hundreds of those rolling out how do you know which one to put your marketing into.  Recently .co Colombia was relaunched and we saw almost.  I think the top 300 brands.  Register their domain names in a sunrise period at low cost.  Hopefully with the communications that come out of ICANN and the acquisition of knowledge by domain management portfolio holders we'll see less of that -- those problems.
But I just wanted to say thank you to Tijani for inviting me to participate.  It's been a real pleasure.  I wish I could be with you in person.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Elaine.  But please, stay with us because we are not done.  We will have two more presentations.  And we will also like to have more of your time for your expertise in this domain.  Thank you.  

>> ELAINE PRUIS:  Okay.  Thanks.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Hold on.  Okay.  Thank you very much.  So now we are going to hear Mohamed El Bashir.  He's a real IT guy.  With hands-on Internet matters and deeply involved in ICANN's policy development processes.  His participation in the introduction of the IDNs and his work in the field of TLDs in Africa will be very beneficial to us today.  Mohamed, you can make your presentation.  Thank you.  

>> MOHAMED EL BASHIR:  Thank you very much, Fatimata.  I would like just to share with you some slides based on my experience in policy development.  And the new IDN process either in the IDN communities.  
I think those words capture the essence of what we are actually talking about.  This is my language.  This is my domain.  It is my Internet.  And this I think is important as we move to capture.  

>> AZIZ HILALI:  I see presented in his presentation.  The geography is -- Internet geography is changing rapidly we are talking about currently 9 billion Internet users.  440 million Chinese Internet users Arabic speaking users are approaching 65 million users.  The next million Internet users they will not be English speaking users.  Or English is not their first language so we are seeing a huge change in the geography in terms of language presented there.  
You can see the shift of -- in terms of Internet users coming for developing countries compared to the Internet users in developed countries.  So there's a huge shift.  There's a huge number of Internet users in the developing world.  

I would like to remind you in either Civil Society or governments about the commitment that all of us adhere to in 2005 in the WSIS process where we committed to try to make the Internet more multilingual and work toward local development and transition, adaptation for these programmes.  
So where we are currently after five years on that, I don't think we achieved that much really.  So we need to remind ourself of such commitments during the way.  I'll just go briefly.  
You can see, this is a long process that took many years.  People can remember that from 2001 or maybe before that even.  But huge progress happened I think in 2007 when ICANN conducted the first IDN .mocktest TLD on the road.  And I think also one of the biggest milestones in 2009 October when ICANN Board approved IDN Fast Track which is a huge step in Internet history.  Basically we opened the door for ready communities who can implement or start using their languages on the Internet system.  
In January -- in November 2009 the Fast Track process was launched.  In January the first four strings or TLDs had been approved.  In May we have the first four IDN ccTLDs delegated in the world from Egypt, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.  
So what we have today is we have the current ASCII Top-Level Domains which either a ccTLD or gTLD and in the first presentation Aziz was talking about 21 gTLDs and almost 200 ccTLDs.  We used to have IDNs at a second level.  And now we have IDN ccTLDs on the Country Code Top-Level Domains.  Currently we have -- we can see the examples in the language, Arabic languages.  
You can go to the other slide.  So you can see those are the countries currently delegated.  So we have about 12 IDN ccTLDs currently operational or at least delegated and maybe ready to start operation.  
And we have countries currently on the string delegation process, which is authorizing support.  And you can check the link down the ICANN web site.  But I think there's about 16 applications on the process.  Somebody from ICANN could verify that.  
So it's a huge step forward.  And countries are stepping forward.  
So what does this mean?  And what opportunities does that mean?  
So basically it means that it will be easier now to identify, localize content by using the Internet advertisement system itself.  If you are using it for development, it will mean new ways users will act and produce information to bring new -- or more choices for the end users than one would understand in terms of it could be overload of too many options that even could have a financial burden.  It will mean new opportunities for business.  It will mean new global and culturally inclusive Internet.  And it will have impact definitely on branding and opportunities and potential impact on cultural community organisations and businesses.  
We need also new tools and systems that enables Internet users to adapt and use IDNs.  And this is really a challenge.  Because currently I'm also -- I went through the process.  And I have to admit.  It's really technical complex process.  It requires all of this.  And you need to know actually a lot of this.  
Lots of challenges.  Just one of the challenges -- this picture is a snapshot.  You can see of an Internationalized Domain Name in Arabic for -- I use different browsers to try to access that domain.  And that was the ICANN test, which is what Nasalle (phonetic) tests for example.  
And you can see at that time the response I got from the browsers.  Haven't seen many browsers you can see here that are not displaying -- they are not displaying the Arabic language itself.  
This has been changed recently.  And that's why this is an ongoing work, by the way.  This is not just a one solution or one implementation will solve it.  Most of the stakeholders involved in that picture it was the browsers vendors.  Currently this is the web site for the government of Dubai and they are using Internationalized Domain Names for their country and lots of content in Arabic available.  
And you can see Firefox is displaying the domain name in Arabic correctly.  So it's a process.  We are going through.  It's a learning process.  It's a development process.  We are going through that.  
I have to go quickly.  Because Fatimata is already chasing me.  
Lots of challenges for developing countries.  Business model is a challenge.  We need to adopt business model that promote competition and choices.  
We need to have a model that enables let's say for example registrars to be in the market.  Registrars could play as retailers.  We need to have competition in the market.  We need to have a new layer of businesses who will add value and add -- and compete for new services for the end user.  It's not just implementing IDNs afterward we got those IDNs approved and delegated.  That's been also a challenge.  
Besides the business model, we need to think of IDNs and even the new gTLDs as enablers.  They are not the goal itself.  I mean these are tools which enable us to do other work.  For example, we need to have access available, open, affordable access to the Internet so people can use Web sites and content in their language.  
We need to have content ready.  And I can tell you now, governments, universities, have huge content they could provide.  And put it online in those languages.  
We need to have the technical community working on developing tools in those languages to enhance and promote production of content.  
So there's a lot of factors that are involved in this actually.  A lot of multistakeholders should be involved in this.  
Content development.  Half a minute from Fatimata.  
Content development.  I think Government projects like e-applications, eLearning.  I mean, we need to -- we need to provide content to ordinary grassroots like our friend, the farmer here from Kenya who can use the Internet or a computer to access valuable information in very remote areas.  
So we need to think about initiatives on how to develop content.  Just some more slides.  


>> MOHAMED EL BASHIR:  Quick.  Challenges, lots of challenges.  Currently e-mail isn't working on the Internet as domain names.  Confusion for the end users.  And the user experience in terms of browser search engines, potential confusion there's potential for that at the entry level.  New challenges for branding.  Last slide.  I think the future is bright.  I mean we will have increased a wide amount of content.  We'll see more creation, innovation from users from different communities to tackle the  challenges we are having now in this we will have services but we need to be careful in planning that lots of work has come under way and there are new ways of branding and establishing corporate identity.  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Mohamed.  Well, I would love to listen to you more.  Because it was very interesting.  And what a positive note to end your presentation.  We heard a lot about opportunities.  And mainly I would like to put an emphasis on the opportunity to produce local content.  Because this is very big point in developing countries and mainly in Africa.  
And you also talked about the business model.  That's something that's a key issue, too.  
So thank you very much, I will not go over all of the good points in your presentations.  But thank you, Mohamed.  
So now, last but not least, we have Zahid Jamil.  We will not be able to talk about Internet Governance without the legal aspects.  Your knowledge and experience in this field as well as your involvement in Internet application matters in Pakistan have certainly inspired you to present today a genuine new gTLD programme rollout for developing countries.  So Zahid, you have the floor.  

>> ZAHID JAMIL:  Thank you very much.  First of all, to start off with, just for the scribes, what Fatimata was talking about N o c t a or -- N o k t a.  Not N O C.  It's Nokta.  Just to mention that.  So if you can get that right on the script.  
Today I'm a lawyer from Pakistan.  I'm also in ICANN in the sense that I'm a counselor on the gNSO.  Today's views I'll be sharing with you will be personal private and not part of any constituency or any part of an organisation that I belong to so I want to soften anything that I say to that extent.  
Let me start off by saying that I will say very little about IDNs I'll focus more on new gTLDs and it's impact on develop countries I think we have heard a lot about the benefit of IDNs and I do agree that IDNs are very useful.  There are problems such as for instance for those in the room who are Muslim, you would know that the relevance of the letters 7, 8 and 6 and in my other language currently the unicode doesn't allow for the character 7 and 4s and some others so I'm not able to write 786 in the unicode I'm not able to have it in the IDN Fast Track programme I'm not able to have access to that but other than those sort of glitches that need to be worked upon ICANN is doing a great job then United Nations code needs to work on it also because without those tables it's not possible for ICANN to provide a solution so these need to be worked on and to that extent developing countries need to engage with international global entities that are part of the Internet Governance environment but let me go to the new gTLDs and let's talk about how new gTLDs.
We're not talking about IDNs for the moment I want to sort of silo myself into .bank and want to silo myself in .sport and silo myself into those sort of generic TLDs that are not specific to a country.  They are not specific to necessarily -- they may be specific to a community but they are basically a generic that's why they are called generic TLDs now what kind of challenges would that pose to developing countries?  So for those who are new to this and since we're here for ICANN the question is when you're a user who goes online and you're searching for again I'll use the term Fossil Bank or AFRALO that many people know in the Arab country in that sort of situation AFRALO.  Bank and AFRALO.  NGO or .com or .info or .museum and you have that God knows who else and as a developing country and I can go on and on I'll be confused so my first part of entry will be Google.com.
In .com.  That's a joke.  But I would go to a search engine and try to figure out.  
Now, please understand I'm not from North America, I'm not from Europe.  I'm not very savvy about the Internet.  I'm just learning to really understand that oh my God there's a .com and there's a .org.  Oh, okay.  Now I have this wide mass rollout of TLDs I have to deal with.  
So let's talk about that.  What is the new gTLD programme and the IDN programme?  It is not a progressive slow rollout of these new gTLDs.  It is a mass rollout.  Which means several new gTLDs are going to be rolled out.  That is what the programme allows for.  
I don't think that it is a bad idea to have new gTLDs.  They are needed and sure, they should be there.  But this programme allows for a mass rollout.  
So let's first focus on some of the things that other people not developing countries but even developed country actors have said about this new gTLD programme.  
Well, let's think about it.  If you're going to go out and do a programme do something new especially let's imagine this is not a change of small policy issues this is a fundamental change in how users use the Internet they have been using .com, .UK .others the ccTLDs but they have to understand that's not the end of it.  It could be .anything.  So at that point would you not want to do a study?  Would you not like a responsible business want to go out and do a feasibility?  Would you not put up and say is it needed.  What are the statistics, how do we do this.  What is its impact and yes, of course, what is its impact on developing countries?  
Well, let me tell you, none of this took place.  None of it.  
What happened was -- and I'm sorry to be sort of -- again, this is not -- I'm not targeting this toward the Board of ICANN or to gNSO I'm talking about how this happened as a whole the decision was taken this is a good idea let's go ahead and do this I'm not going to redefine how it happened and eventually decided now that we have to do this let's decide how we can implement it and then decided maybe there should be a economic study or root scaling study but the time the results of this root scaling study came out by the time of economic feasible which should have been done first has come out and it's not final by the way.  You already have what is being seen as the final probably version of the Applicant Guidebook.  The rules are crystalizing.  There are no statistics for us to really look at.  
This is what the economic study mandated by ICANN or you know followed by ICANN actually says we don't have statistics we don't know what the impact will be on businesses.  We don't know what the social and economic impact will be on the community.  
I'm not just talking about developing countries at the moment I'm just talking about the whole community the developing community that's what the economic study says now after years, this year that we have actually looked at that.  
So the question is:  How much thought has gone to it.  So that's a challenge which I think we're going to have to, you know, rise up to and say well now that we have this and the economic study says please go out and get proper statistics please do a service please do all of these other things and look at the social and economic costs once we have the questions in the report that we have to go out and do now will we go back and change on the basis of those results the rules.  Are we going to go back and change the policy decisions are we going to go back and change the DAG and what impact would that have on developing countries these are the questions which I think are still open.  Not that we shouldn't do this.  But did we do this backwards is the question which I am trying to sort of struggle with and something the developing countries need to look into and say hold on a second all of this happened.
What happens to us?  Are we anywhere there in the picture and they need to step up to the plate they need to engage and while I say that at the same time I would also like to mention that ICANN used to be sensitive a little more than it is at the moment not that it's not trying it's trying really hard but it needs to be more because if this thing goes bad, this is the perfect example for UN or other international organisations to rise up and say right see the Government isn't really working it's not really working for developing countries you never considered us really did you and that's what I'm really concerned about because I would like to see the preservation of the ICANN multistakeholder model I would like to see it not do these things which would get it into trouble or probably get it into trouble hopefully not but when you see this going backwards as a lawyer that advises businesses they never go ahead and invest in a bank put it into company and then say wait a minute is there a market.
Do we have the numbers.  It's backwards.  So I'm concerned about that.  
So what are the different issues that even non-developing countries have.  Awareness.  Look at .aero.  When you guys go to BA.com and you go to Qatar Airways it was .aero.  But because they didn't know about it they then decided to get Qatarairways.com.  Awareness is a user.  User confusion.  How much trust will I have in all of these several different domain names that look like what I'm trying to find because of so many different TLDs then there's the issue of cost not just economic cost but also social cost.  Which is what the economic study of ICANN actually asks to go out and find then the intellectual property issue let's talk about international countries now we have -- they are having trouble with all of the dot things they need to be in they are just now struggling saying I thought I would get myself a domain name and that was it I wouldn't have to keep doing these dispute resolutions and all of the other things and now we're asking them guess what the Digital Divide is about to widen, guys, wake up.
It's becoming a canyon.  Go out and get all of these other domains because the only solution ICANN's process allows for user confusion on the second level forget about getting a TLD that's a whole different ball game $185,000 up front and a whole bunch of other things we heard about but at a second level if I was to have the domain names and my branding is for me to go out and get each and every single or most of the second domain domain names in every TLD if I want to protect myself.  
Or go into a rapid suspension process that's going to cost me hundreds of dollars but it only suspend that domain name for one year.  
And then if I really want it, the answer is:  Oh, then you should have the money to go and do a full UDRP.  Which means I've got to spend something in the region of 5  to 10,000 US dollars.  What is that impact on developing countries?  And that's something I think the developing countries need to come to ICANN, start discussing this issue.  And maybe the fact that it's a good thing that economic study came out.  Maybe it's a good thing that these questions got asked afterwards.  Maybe then the developing countries have an opportunity to now suddenly become and say we need to engage this much earlier and try to do something about it because if we don't see a solution that fits the developing countries like Bertrand said earlier I'm concerned about the fact that they say we can't get a solution to ICANN and UDRP and we can't get a solution on the international scenario but we'll get a local solution.
We'll start blocking.  So Fossil Bank will go and say block fossil.bank I don't want to be in bank and you block bank all together and crazy decisions in courts and happened in Facebook and Pakistan people are talking about a solution for XXX is blocking the whole TLD so those are the kind of things when you see Balkan -- islands blocking you need to make the entire community not just develop countries but developing countries walk with you if you leave them behind they will cut themselves off I'm really concerned about that and I think that's something that the developing countries can do.  So I have 30 seconds and it says zero minutes I'll take 30 seconds if you allow me.  What are the solutions that I see more importantly outreach and awareness which ICANN has to do and others have to do not just ICANN even developing countries need to engage very quickly with ICANN to say we need to do outreach and make people understand we are there what do we do how to use this stuff make sure you're part of the process there will be more IP lawyers that will be required and more IP management good stuff for me I'm a lawyer so I'm in a very advantageous position.

But I don't like the idea of saying we'll solve the problem by throwing money at you we'll give you technical assistance and money and set you up so that's the answer to the new gTLD developing countries it's not aid it's trade it's about equal playing field we want we don't want being given money which may not be adequate enough and then say we solved the problem for you because we gave you money I'm not so sure getting the satellite dishes alone I think it's a great thing I don't want to knock it but that's not the idea the idea is to give us a level playing field we want to flatten this we don't want mountains we don't want a Digital Divide we don't want con I don't knows being created we want to come together and equal playing field so that's the thing I want to focus on and I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have new IDNs or new gTLDs either but I think it needs to be done in a responsible, cautious and globally sensitive fashion and those are the things I would like to contribute.
Thank you very much.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you very much, Zahid.  Indeed, we would like to go on and on with you.  Because you are saying very important and interesting things.  And it's very important for us as developing countries.  And I'm tempted to say one thing.  After all of this, what is next for us?  How do we organise ourselves?  I mean, I'm just asking the question to all of the audience.  Including us.  
What is next?  What would we do?  Do we just leave the room and say:  Okay, I mean, this is good.  We know what we want.  We want level playing ground.  So what do we do?  How would we get it?  If they give us money we say no we don't need the money.  We want to stick.  We want to be involved.  How do we go about this?  
So I think we're about to finish this workshop.  Olivier, do you have -- I can take one question, only one because this is the end from remote participants.  There is one.  

>> Well, there have been a couple of comments from Elaine which have come up on the screen.  I don't know if you all have seen them so far.  


>> And there's also been a comment from Charles in Jordan.  I'm trying to find his full name right now.  Which mentions although I'm an intellectual property person but my advice is it's important to -- my advice is to choose the important TLDs similar to new trademark protection for example the owner chooses in which class he or she is interested in protecting them this is the comments so far I don't know if Elaine wants to say anything remotely.  Or wave yes or no.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  You want me to open the floor for questions.  Yes.  I mean the presenters would like to have questions.  The last two presenters.  We have questions or comments we can take maybe -- I can ask for five minutes of your time.  Five more minutes.  Do we have questions?  
Why, is it clear enough?  Yes?  No questions.

>> With the number of ICANN Board Members, there might be a few comments perhaps.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Yes; that's right.  Comments and mainly after Zahid's presentation.  He raised so many issues.  Yes, we have Dennis and we have Peter.  You didn't ask for the floor but I'll give you the floor.

>> DENNIS JENNINGS:  Thank you, Dennis Jennings again.  I would just like to comment on some aspects of emotion that was in the presentations on the Digital Divide.  
Back in the early days of the Internet the Digital Divide was very much between the United States and Europe and in particular a poor country that I lived in called Ireland.  It was very much behind the times.  And very critical of the lack of access to the Internet and the cost of Internet access and so on.  
But normal economic development and prioritizing and understanding that this is an important part of our own economic development caused investment not just by the Government but by  entrepreneurs and so on.  And now there is no Digital Divide.  Between Ireland and the United States.  In fact I would say if nothing United States is poorer off with Internet access in general than people in Ireland are.  
So you know, there is a normal part of economic development of which the Internet is part.  That will address some of these issues.  
And so it shouldn't be seen only as a problem.  But more as an opportunity to create economic activity and to become part of the global economy.  Thank you.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Yes, thank you.  Dennis.  

>> PETER DENGATE THRUSH:  Hi.  Peter Dengate Thrush.  I'm the Chairman of the Board of ICANN.  And I've been involved in working with the Board.  Just a couple of comments because I don't have any questions.  
I think people in developing countries should feel insulted at the approach that was taken that they haven't the ability to discriminate between a large number of choices.  And that that's something that should be left to developed countries.  And I think the idea that we owe it to developing countries to gently and slowly control the release of people's choices into their countries because they can't cope with choices is a very difficult proposition to live with.  
I think people in developed countries have got just as much right and ability to develop as many brands as they want to.  And to choose from the entire range of brands that are offered to them in any -- and any dissolution that they will get controlled or slowed because they will be confused with this choice is frankly insulting so we have worked from the opposite position which as people want these and as there's a market for them if they are successful because the market wants them, they will succeed.  
I guess that's the first thing.  That we should take a particular paternalistic views on developing countries I think is something developing countries should resist with all of their might.  
The second thing is this will be a mass rollout is completely wrong.  The studies that are done are shown that an absolute and you can see this on the web site the absolute maximum number of applications that might be received in one year is 925.  The total number that can be processed in any year is 200 or 300 so when you say masseur talking about a number that's currently equal to or less than the current total number of TLDs so we're not talking about orders of magnitude changes we're talking about in the first year possibly doubling the current TLD numbers.  I don't think that's mass and I think people will be able to cope with that rate.  
And finally, the IP lawyers of which the -- there is one have had their chance to make all of their cases in their five-year process and the intellectual property protection brought in place is with a delicate balance with everyone in the community not just with IP lawyers IP lawyers always want more protection IP lawyers always want their brands to be stronger I'm one myself I'm a specialist IP lawyer.  What we have had to do is balance the interest of the IP lawyers against all of the other constituencies free speech if you don't want these things people who say that each of the brands in TLDs do not equate to brands that there are other elements and other values.  So there's a lot of debate that's gone into this it's not just simply somebody saying:  Let's do it over.  Let's do everything in a hurry it's taken five years and resolved with a lot of compromised discussions of which the IP lawyers have been a huge part so just some comments from me.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you, Peter.  Thank you very much.  Very interesting comment.  And important certainly.  
Before giving you the floor, Sebastien, I would like you to see the question from Armenia.  The question is to the panel:  How are we going to address the case for small nations like Armenia, Georgia, et cetera who are widely using special scripts for more than millennia?  This is a question to the panel.  Or to the audience.  

>> MOHAMED EL BASHIR:  If I can respond to that.  There's criterias I mean for the -- for the IDN ccTLD process which is already published and available.  So I think they can just refer to the web site for the criterias.  It's very clear in terms of for applications and what's acceptable at this stage at the Fast Track.  This is not the full-fledged IDN -- or at least we don't have a complete policy that's been developed.  So the Fast Track has been designed specifically for specific criterias for these non-ASCII ready to start up and get their IDN or ccTLD.  If Armenia and Georgia fit that criteria, I think they can apply.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Okay.  Sebastien.  Thank you, Mohamed.

>> SEBASTIEN BACHOLLET:  Thank you, Sebastien Bachollet, activist and vice chair of ALAC.  I'll be speaking on my own behalf and I would like to support what is said.  And I am not sure that even if it's now five or six years we are discussing the issues and saying that somebody could be insulted or not insulted.  I am insulted.  But because we take six years to decide to some new gTLDs.  I think as the first two rollouts was small.  But came to the roots.  And maybe it could have been a better idea to still have ten per year than to try to have 300 next year and we don't know when it's next year.  
But at the same time I am sure that we have still a lot of things to discuss.  And what struck me is that we are always saying it's always written that when ICANN was created, we'll write that.  But since ICANN was created, a lot of things changed.  The world changed a lot.  The economics changed.  And if we still say that the market will do everything, we see how we are now with the market, the financial market.  And I don't think to see the domain name market going there.  
And the last point I want to make is that one important point.  And I will say the most important point that Jamil said.  The search engine situation.  And even worse, the Google will win the situation in the future.  Because domain name will be just found by a search engine.  And the one gaining -- winning this game, it's Google because it is a major search engine.  And we have as end user.  And I want to speak on that end of the spectrum, we need to have something else to just rely on the Google engine.  
I'm sure there's a lot of things to discuss on all of that.  But I think we have all -- we have sometimes to follow this discussion.  And I know we could well have two days on discussion next week but I'm sure this week we can help to advance some of these ideas.  Thank you very much and thank you for the panelists.  You were great.  All of you did a great job.  Thank you.

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: Thank you very much.  I think -- I mean, I still can see hands up.  But I think we'll have to stop now.  Because people are -- many people are already leaving.  I would like to thank all the panelists here for their brilliant presentations.  

>> FATIMATA SEYE SYLLA: And I would like to thank all of the participants for their participation, for the involvement in the discussions and for their contributions.  Thank you very much.  Thank you again to Tijani for making this happen.  And thank you Elaine.  For your contribution.  Thank you very much.  And thank you to all of the remote participants.  Thank you.  Bye bye.  

(Session ended at 1113)