IGF 2021 – Day 0 – Event #33 Youth Perspectives on Digital Civility

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF virtual intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.



     >> MODERATOR: Good morning, everyone.  We are speaking to you from the IGF in Katowice in Poland.  I have with me this morning many young people who really would like to have their word to say about digital civility, and this is a very important aspect. 

     for many of us, over the past two years with the COVID pandemic, the Internet has been a lifeline, linking us to each other, but unfortunately, also, it has been a playground for a lot of cyber criminals.  And we have forgotten what we were meant to think about being polite online, being nice to each other online, stopping bullying and stopping to think before we post. 

     This morning, I have seven young people with me who would like to share their point of view.  Now, over the past six years, Microsoft has been running something called the Digital Civility Index.  Last year, almost 60,000 people responded to the index from 30 different countries.  The results have not yet been released this year; they will be released on Safer Internet Day 2022. 

     What is digital civility?  Well, it means being polite to each other, as I already mentioned.  It means taking care of our privacy.  But it means many different things to young people, I am sure. 

     Let's go over to Nina from the Czech Republic.  Good morning, Nina.  Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you think about digital civility? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA:  Good morning.  So hello.  My name is Nina.  I am 16.  I live in the Czech Republic, and I live in the capital of Czech Republic, which is Prague.  I go to an international school here.  And, well, my perspective on digital civility, from what I have noticed, I have definitely seen that it has gotten worse over the last couple of years, which is really sad because I would hope that since it is such a big part of our lives, we will actually start caring more about how people treat each other on the Internet, so I am glad to be part of this because I hope that some solutions can be then made and progress will be made as well. 

     >> MODERATOR: Great.  I am going to come back to you shortly and ask what you are doing about this, but let's move on to Dana.  Dana is from Slovenia. 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC:  Hello.  My name is Dana.  I am 14 years old, and I come from Slovenia.  I am also part of the Council, the Microsoft Council for Digital Good.  I think that digital civility, like Nina already said, is getting worse over the years.  Especially now because of COVID, and everything is more online, and I feel like everyone thinks it doesn't matter if they post anything rude online.  So like Nina said, I hope we will find some solutions on this call. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  And let's go over to Diana, also from Slovenia. 

     >> DIANA: Hi, guys.  I am from Slovenia.  I am 16, and I actually think that digital civility has gotten worse as well because the fact that we can do something without someone knowing, AKA we do it anonymously, has a really big impact, and we become more cruel, and that's why we spread the hate.  And we just kind of put this face on us, and we are like oh, I didn't know.  I didn't do that.  So I think that's the problem as well.  This whole anonymous thing.  So I think we should fix that, and we should actually spread the awareness of how much this can mean to someone and have an impact on their whole life. 

     >> MODERATOR: So you have raised an interesting point there, anonymity.  Before we move ahead, I am going to go back to Nina.  What do you think, Nina?  Do you think anonymity is really causing people to act worse than what they would act, if I can use the expression, in real life? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, I did say that the fact that we can go anonymous on the Internet and talk to anyone there, like anonymously, so those people, like, don't know who we are, may cause some people to think that they can do whatever they want.  So yeah, I think it's part of the issue, and that if it will receive, like, more attention, then maybe people would, like, start realizing that what they do online will have an actual impact on people in reality.  Because I think that when we talk to other people in reality, we tend to think more about the consequences of what we do.  Whereas on the Internet, we sometimes think it's because, like, we do it over the Internet or over computers.  It doesn't have such an impact in reality, although it clearly does, and it hurts people.  So yeah, I think the fact that some people go anonymously on the Internet does have an impact on the way they behave. 

     >> MODERATOR: That's very interesting to hear.  The blurred edges between our online life and our reality, as you have just said.  I think it's a very interesting topic. 

     I am wondering if I have any of our other youth online?  What about Ariff Azam from Malaysia?  Did you manage to get in?  I know that everyone's having difficulties this morning. 

     Is Ariff Azam?  And we were expecting someone from Iceland.  I am wondering if Aya is with us this morning. 

     No, so I think we'll just work with the people that we have. 

     You mentioned anonymity.  We have talked about ‑‑ well, I would say accountability, actually, accountability in our reality, accountability online. 

     Yes?  Do we have somebody else in with us now?  No.  I would like to go to Dana.  Dana, what, for you, is the biggest problem?  Why do you think that the results of the Digital Civility Index are worse this year than in previous years

     >> DANA JARKOVIC:  I think because everything is online now, we find it now normal that we have a Zoom, not in person.  We find it normal that we use, and any apps.  Personally, I think it's gotten worse.  Like Nina said, anonymous, everyone can do that.  Or everyone can rename themself and be rude in their name, which is also very sad.  And I think it just ‑‑ I think it's just so much worse because everyone thinks no one can do anything to them because they are anonymous on Internet.  They think that they can hurt anyone because they are anonymous. 

     I am sorry if that didn't make sense. 

     >> MODERATOR: That made perfect sense, and it's not always easy to speak in front of an audience.  And we do have a number of people here in our room who are listening to you. 

     Diana, I would like to ask you a question.  I know that you are with the Council for Digital Good.  So what have you been doing about anonymity and accountability?  Have you been doing anything in this regards, or do you have any great ideas on what we could do? 

     >> Diana:  Yes, we actually talked about privacy and security, and we talked about different ways, what can happen to you, like phishing.  So all kind of hate and how it can happen, how we can prevent it.  And there's a lot of solutions for that.  And we actually read a book about cyberbullying.  And I think the solution, in my opinion, would be that we spread the awareness, as I said before, because people don't actually know it's just a screen, and they are like oh, I filtered it, I was ugly.  But you can't really know and see the reaction of that person who received the message.  Maybe you hurt them.  Maybe they are becoming depressed because of it.  Maybe they feel some pressure.  Maybe they don't want to go to school next week because they received that, because they are ashamed of the way they look.  So I think we can't really do anything about it.  We can only just come up to the person and teach them what can happen and show them the results of if what could happen if we are rude and spread the hate. 

     >> MODERATOR: That makes it difficult, though, because we can't go up to everyone.  So I am wondering, what is the solution or if there is a solution. 

     Another aspect that I see in the digital civility index is privacy.  And I know that privacy means something quite different to young people than to oldies like me.  Nina, can you tell me, what does privacy mean to you? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, privacy to me means two different things.  I'd say firstly, it's the information that I share online, and I would wish this information to stay only within the circle of people that I want to share it with.  And then secondly, I'd also say it's the fact that if we have some sensitive information online, and that maybe like the information we put there, but it also may be, for example, the governments have certain things online about us, then I would wish that this data should be protected, and it should stay only, like, within our reach, and it shouldn't be accessed by anyone else. 

     >> MODERATOR: Protected from who?  Who, for you, is the greatest problem?  Who are you trying to protect your information from? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: I would say anyone who can abuse it.  People who hack into our accounts, which I notice happens more and more often lately, but it's also just people that we can be even, like, friends with, but they can then use this information against us in certain situations. 

     >> MODERATOR: And do you agree with her, Diana?  What do you think about privacy? 

     >> DIANA:  Yeah, I definitely agree, but from someone who is a really private person, actually, I think it's more dangerous for our information to get spread because of our friends.  Because I have a lot of trust issues, and I think people trust people too much today, so you could have a best friend, you tell them something, take a screenshot of something, and send it to them, and then one day you are going to wake up and there's going to be this screenshot all over the Internet.  And you are never going to know if it's your best friend if someone doesn't tell you and exposes them.  So I think the fact ‑‑ I think friends are a much bigger problem because there's less of chances of us getting ‑‑ being a part of a cybercrime because it's ‑‑ I don't know if someone would actually come to a young person, do that to someone.  I think it's more of a friend‑to‑friend problem

     >> MODERATOR: Which is very interesting concept also because what is a friend today?  Would you like to answer that one, Dana?  What does it mean to be a friend online?  

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: I think if you are not mean, that's a big thing.  If you are not spreading hate to that person, to a specific person, to be nice, honestly, to just ‑‑ sometimes I feel like even if you are just not doing anything on the Internet, it's better than just being hateful or, like, spreading hate.  I think it's better to just be nice to each other.  So yeah. 

     >> MODERATOR: I am wondering if we have anyone else online now who was going to participate?  And I think the audience know that there have been big difficulties for people to get online to participate in this session.  Is there anyone else who would like to speak and is online and hasn't had the chance yet?  Please speak up. 

     No.  Is Larry Magid online, who is going to be my co‑moderator?  No. 

     I have a question.  I have a question for everyone, and I hope that the audience is also going to answer.  Maybe we can pick up a microphone, take it around the room so that people can answer on this one.  So, why do you think digital civility has become worse this past year?  A, the pandemic has created new kind of hate and discord?  B, the rise in fake news is having an impact on behavior?  C, I don't think things have changed much over the last year or so?  And D, I don't know? 

     Now, I would like people to raise their hand and also for the young people online with me so that we can get a little idea.  Why has digital civility become worse over this past year?  Is it because the pandemic has created a new kind of hate and discord?  Can you raise your hand if you think?  Okay.  One person does think this.  And what about our young people online?  Raise your hand if you think that's the case. 

     No, let's try B.  Yes, okay.  Ah, okay.  B, we have quite a few.  The rise in fake news is having an impact on behavior.  Can you raise your hand again so I can see?  The rising fake news.  Okay.  So it looks to me like this is the one that we believe. 

     I don't think ‑‑ C, I don't think things have changed much over the past year.  Raise your hand.  Okay.  And D, I don't know. 

     Fine.  This leads us to another question.  Fake news.  Fake news, I think, became worse with COVID.  Everyone can be an expert on Internet, even if they have no knowledge at all.  But what can we do about fake news?  Can anyone find some ideas on how we can act, what we can do, how we can get rid of this fake news or how we can help everyone see through the fake news? 

     Can I go to Nina for her thoughts on this?  Fake news, Nina.  What do you think?  How can we get rid of it?  What can we do? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, I think that it could potentially ‑‑ like the situation could potentially be improved by two main things.  Firstly, I have noticed that lately social media, for example, Instagram, have been putting, like, warning signs if they, like, encounter a message or if they encounter something that isn't true, they have these warnings, fake information or something like that.  I think that's very useful because then people are more aware when they read it that they shouldn't, probably, like, take it for granted.  Just when they read it.  And maybe more research is required.  So I think that if this would be implemented in more platforms, then that would be relatively useful. 

     Secondly, also, I think it might be good for people in general to explain to people that ‑‑ I think we have been talking about this quite a lot, but maybe if we would emphasize this even, like, on social media, that everything that you see online may not be true and that, like, everything they see on social media especially should be ‑‑ should not be taken for granted and that people should double‑check whatever they intend to post, especially, because that's probably the biggest way of spreading misinformation and fake news.  Because someone thinks it's true, and then they, like, post it on their social media.  So then like more people see it.  So I think if we would take some precaution steps on people actually realizing something might not be true, I think that could help.  Not eliminate the problem completely, but at least mitigate it to some extent. 

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  So I get the feeling what you are saying is check your facts.  Now, I am going to do something very unconventional here.  I am going to ask the people in the audience to please come up and take a seat on the stage, to pass the microphone between you, and to be full participants so that you can also see the young people.  Could you come up here, please. 

     I think there are enough seats.  I would like you to be part of the debate. 

     Right.  There's a microphone.  So we have been speaking about two things in particular so far, or perhaps three.  The first one is privacy.  Can we go back and have a little think about privacy?  Can you pass the microphone along, please, and give me your point of view.  Now, we are not just here to talk about the problems.  We are here to talk about the solutions.  So privacy.  What does it mean to you, and what are the solutions we can use for better privacy on Internet? 

     Does it work? 

     >> AUDIENCE: Does it work? 

     >> MODERATOR: Up near your mouth.  Yes. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Okay.  I think privacy is like a fundamental right for each and every one, and it has to be protected at all cost.  Because it's very important, and I mean, there are certain informations that shouldn't be shared.  So that's definitely a huge task in the future to protect privacy at all costs. 

     >> MODERATOR: Right.  Anyone else like to say a word?  Yes, microphone, just come and get it, please.  I have got too much.  There's another one.  Pass it along.  Yes.  So privacy.  What to do? 

     >> AUDIENCE: So I'd like to go back to the question of what privacy is before we go into what to do going forward.  I think privacy is essentially a signaling function.  It's a question of who can we actually be our true selves in front of?  I think if you conceptualize it in those terms, you get a much more holistic understanding of what privacy actually means from an individual action point of view. 

     And so with regards to what we should do going forward, I feel that from a practical point of view, for social media platforms, having granular control over who we get to share information with is one very important step.  But also, from the point of view of the legal system, it's also being able to know for sure that we have control over our own data, so we have that power balancing factor in the legal system to be able to tell these social media platforms that, yes, I want my data to be done or shared in so‑and‑so way.  I hope that makes sense. 

     >> MODERATOR: It's great, yes.  So I would like to hear, maybe from Dana now.  Here we heard that, in fact, we have to think about who we can be ourselves in front of.  We also heard that there should be much more granularity on social media, we should have much more control over who sees what.  What do you think about this? 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: So I think the most important thing is to also not share everything because people like to overshare these days.  Even, like, some people, like, influencers and stuff, like put their whole life on the Internet.  And I don't think that's like the safest option.  So I think it would be, first of all, great to not overshare everything.  And also to, if you do share it, just know to whom you are sharing it with.  Like for example, if you want to post something on Instagram, like do it on close friends to know who sees it.  Or if you are posting, just know that they can use this information towards you to cyberbully you or, like Diane already said, next morning you can wake up to a picture that you posted, thought it was cute, and you can wake up to it and people could edit it and put it towards you for hate. 

     >> MODERATOR: You keep bringing up bullying.  I am wondering if anyone else would like to speak about privacy or otherwise, I think bullying is sort of the elephant in the room, and we may go in that direction.  Would anyone else like to speak about privacy?  Just call ‑‑ yes, please go ahead. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you so much.  I would actually like a bit make conversation with what Ms. Dana said.  I think this is a really intersectional topic because, for example, I am representing here in a No Hate Speech Online.  This is all about the fundamental human rights that we act in a way we want to while we are on social media channels, and I am sorry, for example, as Ms. Dana said, there are some people sharing all the information, and this is the way they want to share it, and this is quite okay.  What we think about is not why you are sharing a lot, but we have to think about how we can make sure it's secure, what we share there.  So if we talk about why you are sharing a lot, it means that you were kind of making a person, you know, not to allow to use their Internet rights, the access to Internet and technologies.  So that's why this is quite a huge topic that while we are talking about cyber security, at the same time, the privacy and our how many rights at the same time.  This is a huge intersectional topic. 

     >> MODERATOR: Yes, very, very important.  I was in Morocco just ten days ago, and it's really unfortunate that we don't have our young people here from Morocco who wanted to join us this morning, but I think that they are having trouble getting into the connection. 

     Hate speech is getting worse.  We do tend to say anything to anyone and really not think about how that's going to hurt. 

     In surveys that I have done, 75% of young people say over the past week ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ over the past month ‑‑ that they've actually been mean to somebody else online.  Why is it that we do think we can be mean, and why is it that bullying has become such an issue? 

     I am going to ask these young people online with us first of all to speak about bullying because this is a very important aspect of the digital civility index, and then I am going to turn to you to get your thoughts about hate speech, being mean online, because for me, a lot of that can lead to bullying. 

     Nina, would you like to share your thoughts on bullying with us? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, I think that the main reason why this occurs so much online especially is because people don't realize what kind of consequences their actions online may have.  And that may be for a couple of reasons.  Like firstly, they might just simply say something that they don't mean offensively, but the people ‑‑ because, like, you don't get to hear the tone or, like, you don't often get the context behind why someone said something about you.  So that may really hurt you because it may not be meant, like, in a bad way, but it is meant in a bad way.  I mean, then you take it in a bad way, which may not be good.  But also, as well as that, just simply people being mean to each other online because they don't think it has such an impact because it's just online.  However, of course, it hurts people in reality as well. 

     >> MODERATOR: And what about Diana?  Any thoughts or any solutions?  Because I think we have been going around in circles for the past 20 years on many of these issues.  This morning, I would like to come out with a few solutions.  Yes, Diana? 

     >> DIANA:  Yes, I would also like to go back to privacy.  One of you said that ‑‑ about privacy that you have to know around who can you be yourself.  That's what I was actually thinking about.  That's the problem of communicating through social media.  On the chat, you get a different perspective and different expectations about someone, and then when you meet them in real life, for example, it can be a whole different person because through chat you can't see their facial expressions, their reactions to what you say.  Maybe you said something funny in an appropriate way and they just sent you like a laughing emoji, ha‑ha‑ha, you are funny.  But in reality when you say something like that, they are just going to be like oh, yeah, I don't like that.  I think that's the problem because you can't see or hear someone, see what they do, how they react.  So that's what I wanted to say. 

     And about how to prevent that, I'd say that's what they do in my country.  They teach us in school, like sixth or fifth grade, there comes a person from a council for, like, digital security and everything, tells us and shows us the consequences of what can happen.  In my country, for example, we don't experience lots of cyberbullying and stuff.  It's usually just in real life, which is also a problem.  And I would think it's because they actually make sure of that in schools. 

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  So you think the school has a big role to play and that schools can actually do something about this. 

     I think it was Dana that I didn't just speak to.  Dana, tell us about bullying, solutions, being mean, anything that you want. 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: Yeah, I think like Diana said, it's a really big thing if, even as parents, maybe, to come to your children and tell them when they get a phone or anything, start using social media, how to use it, who to chat with, who not to chat with, what to see, like any links.  If you get any strange things.  I think it's important, like Diana said, schools should really chat about with young people about safety and stuff.  And cyberbullying.  And even there is, obviously, like a lot of bullying happening in schools.  Not much on Internet in my country, like Diana said.  So I think Diana really got the point, so I think that's it for me. 

     >> MODERATOR: And do you think that the schools are doing enough?  And here I am going to turn to the audience.  Are schools doing enough about this, or what else can we do so that we learn to behave much better online, so that we learn to be digitally civil?  Who would like to intervene?  I am sure you've got ideas.  Pass the microphone along. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Hello.  First I would like to say it's absolutely fantastic to start IGF with this young peoples discussion, who are the present and future of the Internet, so it's really so, so nice.  I think that generally speaking, schools must work on relations and must work on those golden values, because as we can see, the virtual life is not virtual anymore.  It's our normal regular social life.  And when you speak to the children, when you speak to young people, they say that they see some different direction of the phenomenon of bullying because, firstly, we have been talking that people face to face behave better than online.  But now they say that somehow, those bullying activities move from the Internet also to real life.  Like people are more open to give negative comments, even face to face.  So we learn somehow to be so true in our reactions, so open, that we start not to also appreciate people offline when we meet someone.  But also, I think children look at adults, and they learn how to radicalize opinions, how to really have a very bad way of having those adult people discussions.  So I think it's a huge problem, and the schools should focus on the relations between people, talking about how to respect each other and how to understand that the virtual life is the same life that we live offline. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much, and thank you so much for coming in.  I am seeing comments on the Chat, and I would love to say them, but I am afraid my glasses got lost in my baggage, and I can't read the Chat.  Would one of the moderators up there read any interesting chats that come up?  Is that possible? 

     >> (Off microphone)

     >> MODERATOR: Okay, thank you.  So yes, please. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Please, I have a last comment.  While we are talking about gender equality, people say actually, don't protect your daughter, but educate your son.  It's actually all about the same topic we are talking about here, limited person for sharing and connecting people and trying to do whatever they want to online, instead of educating others not to bully or the process that they do.  That's why really it's about the education we have to deliver to young people in schools and kindergarten because there's no curriculum regarding bullying, regarding privacy, regarding Internet in schools.  Only universities and masters, et cetera, but it's not really enough because bullying processes are especially happening for young people and teenagers, and that's why it's really important that we do this in schools, high school and education systems.  So that's why the main solution would be making a proper and relevant information and curriculum and education in high schools and even primary schools, I think, because right now we are more like talking about digital natives, which is more likely children that are using the Internet so much in last century.  You know?  So that's why it's really important to make sure education provides this information.  So yeah. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, and it's really interesting to hear because no hate speech, I know, has been running for at least ten years and really pushing young people to think about what they are saying. 

     I believe now that we actually have Jim into the session.  Good morning, Jim.  Are you there with us?  And perhaps you could take on a little of the moderating. 

     >> JIM PRENDERGAST: I am here.  Can you hear me? 

     >> MODERATOR: We can hear you, yes. 

     >> JIM PRENDERGAST: Excellent.  So I am in the Chat room.  Unfortunately, we've been bit by the technical gremlins yet again, so lots of folks are struggling to get in.  Took me 25 minutes.  Right now, there's nothing in the Chat as far as questions are concerned.  So when something does come up, and if folks who are participating online do have questions, they can either drop them into the Chat box, or they can Raise Your Hand in the Zoom function, and hopefully we can recognize you and give you the microphone. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  So talking about bullying, many young people say what concerns them the most is not to know how to intervene when a friend of theirs is being bullied and that, in fact, it hurts much more than when you are bullied yourself, which is a question of resilience, and we will get back to that shortly.  Do you think this is an issue?  And how can we teach people what to do when their friends are being bullied?  I'd like to turn back to my panelists now.  Nina, does it concern you more when your friends are being bullied and you don't know how to intervene, or do you think that's not really relevant for you? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, I must say that I agree with the fact that it does concern me more when my friends get bullied or when someone mistreats them online than if that would have happened to me.  I think that's also the reason for that is because I am part of the Digital Council that Microsoft organizes, so I think that I am exposed to more ways and, like, to a discussion about it.  Whereas I think that the majority of my friends do not really know how to cope with cyberbullying online.  So I think that definitely the fact that, like, I would probably know how to cope with it online, whereas my friends wouldn't, would mean that I would feel relatively hopeless, and I also wouldn't probably ‑‑ like I don't think I would know how to, like, help them specifically because if they wouldn't want help because, well, each situation like each thing, like each time something like cyberbullying occurs, it's really individual.  So yeah, I would feel worse if it would happen to my friends because I wouldn't ‑‑ like, especially if I wouldn't know how to help them, that would feel really bad because then I would feel like I failed as a friend, to an extent. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  And Dana, what do you think about that? 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: Yes, I think I would feel worse for my friends.  Luckily, I have not experienced that.  Neither have I known that my friends did.  But I think that I would send them to read the book that we read.  It was Words Bound, and we also had a discussion about that book, and it has a lot of experiences that people had about cyberbullying, being cyberbullied, and then doing the cyberbullying.  And it has a lot of great ways to prevent it, to solutions, and it's a great book.  So I think I would just recommend them to read it if I ‑‑ I would obviously try to help them, but if they wouldn't understand, I would just hand them the book. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  And it's Diana, or is it Dana?  Who did I just speak to?  I just spoke to Diana, so now I'd like to speak to Dana? 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: No, you just spoke to me, I am Dana. 

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  Diana, please.

     >> DIANA: Yes.  Our friends don't care about this, our lives don't depend on social media, but if this would happen, I would, of course, be more concerned for my friends if it would happen to them than for myself because I know how I would act, but I don't know how would they act because I can't read their minds.  So you know, I would help them with my knowledge that I got from CDG Europe.  And I would probably do that.  But I don't think that would ever happen. 

     >> MODERATOR: Oh, lucky you.  CDG, we keep hearing about the Council for Digital Good.  And this is very interesting because you young people, you feel like you know how to handle these situations because you are part of a group, and I am sure, I know No Hate Speech is another group.  But isn't it the role of the family to be teaching this?  What happens if you can't be part of a group?  And if it's the role of the family, what age should we start learning in our family to be kind to each other, the importance of respect?  What age do you think it's important to be learning about empathy online?  Nina? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, to the thing you said about family, I think, of course, it's the family's role to prepare you for life.  However, I don't really think we should expect the parents to, like, properly explain this to children because, of course, our parents weren't the people who grew up in this environment.  Because, like, we were those that, like, grew up with this and are exposed to online content, like ever since our young childhood.  But our parents weren't.  So I think that we should more like keep this role to the school that can actually invite experts that, like, know how to give advice.  Whereas, like, our parents should be those that should advise us with things that they understand. 

     >> MODERATOR: Great.  So you are saying wait till you get to school. 

     Diana?  What age should we start learning about empathy?  And perhaps where should we be learning about it? 

     >> DIANA:  Actually, I would comment about what Nina said.  I would actually blame my parents for ‑‑ not just my parents ‑‑ most of the parenthood and the upbringing for generation Z, that was wrong.  Because when a child started crying, they didn't snuggle them, cuddle them, they just gave us an iPad, and they were like shut up.  So I blame that because ‑‑ blame parents and upbringing because that's absolutely wrong.  But I also agree that it's now the parents ‑‑ they have to.  It's their ‑‑ they have to teach us and tell us why they did that and what should we do and how would we act in different situations.  But of course, as we become teenagers, we don't really listen to our parents, which is also a big problem because of puberty, so I think schools ‑‑ again, schools, I think schools have to do that.  They have to do that, not the parents, because I don't think we would really listen to them.  Because I don't really listen to my parents, so. 

     >> MODERATOR: I bet you did when you were very young, though. 


     >> You have just spoken to Diana.  Now you ever going to speak to Dana. 

     >> MODERATOR: You have got to put me right.  Dana. 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: Yes, so I agree with both of them.  I think it's the responsibility of the schools, and even maybe at the end of kindergarten or just start, like, slowly knowing what ‑‑ to be nice and to not bully and stuff.  And I think parents obviously know some stuff, but they don't know as much as some who it's their job to tell people and help them with this kind of stuff.  So I think parents definitely have a role in that, but not as much as the people that actually, it is their job to explain that to people. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  And I am wondering, what do you think?  At what age and where should we be learning about empathy?  Yes, you have got the microphone. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Yes, I'd love to add something to this.  First of all, thank you all for sharing those interesting perspectives.  I, myself, I think my teenage years, maybe like ‑‑ well, I guess I am like ten years older than you guys.  And what I experienced was, like, when Facebook just came up, my parents always told me, well, don't put anything on there.  It's going to stay on the Internet forever.  And they didn't have a clue about social media.  And I think it's critical that we all learn about the Internet and about digital civility and empathy online, that we never stop doing this.  And that we don't stop at any age because right now, there's also older people, older generations who have to learn about it, who have to engage with the things that their children are doing, that their grandchildren are doing online. 

     So to answer your question, I think we should teach everyone at every age to also facilitate teaching in families and in schools.  Yes. 

     >> MODERATOR: Would you like to pass it along?  Are there any other ideas?  Empathy, what age, how do we learn it?  Aide I guess we learned it the whole life.  Our whole life we should learn some kind of empathy, how to share experiences with others, how to meet also in real life every day.  And I also shared this experience of millennial generation, so I guess Internet grew with me, the applications and all sorts of social media.  And now Gen Z are all born to this, so it's already evolved.  And I wonder how is your perspective?  And I think the generations should talk about what's their experience, and then we can understand each other better.  Yeah.  And that's how we grow empathy. 

     >> MODERATOR: And interesting question.  But how do we share these experiences?  Where do we share them?  Because so far we don't seem to have that right solution. 

     >> AUDIENCE: When? 

     >> MODERATOR: When, where, how? 

     >> AUDIENCE: This kind of conference, of course, is somehow a solution.  Now we can share our ideas and thoughts about how the world works right now.  And I guess, for example, I have a younger sister, so I learn from her the games she plays and new words she uses online, and she teaches me about stuff that I don't know.  I teach her about stuff she doesn't know.  So I guess it's all about dialogue, generational dialogue. 

     >> MODERATOR: That's a very, very important concept, dialogue.  I see that at long last we have our co‑moderator online.  Good morning, Larry.  Sorry that you've had so much trouble coming in.  Would you like to say a few words and perhaps ask a few questions? 

     He is on mute, unfortunately.  We don't ‑‑

     >> JIM PRENDERGAST: Larry, you are muted. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Sorry.  That I can fix.  Thank you very much.  I am at a bit of a disadvantage because I don't know what we have been discussing so far.  Sorry about the technical glitch that is apparently affecting a lot of people, and thank a for allowing me to come in on her account. 

     The question that I am curious about is what's going on right now with digital civility?  Perhaps you have discussed this, but the fact that we have seen a downtick in 2021, obviously, is concerning.  And there is some presumption that it has to do with COVID.  Perhaps that's the case, perhaps it's other issues.  So if you haven't already discussed it, I think it would be very interesting to talk a little bit about what's happening right now in the world that seems to be affecting digital civility. 

     >> MODERATOR: Actually, and it's a pity that you weren't here to be with us, Larry, earlier.  I think that we have discussed that, what's going on right now. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Good. 

     >> MODERATOR: And I think we have come to the conclusion that, one ‑‑ well, it was very interesting what one of our young people said, that in fact, kids are growing up with the tablet, they are not ‑‑ dialogue is key.  Another thing we've talked about is fake news.  We have also talked about bullying and about empathy.  We've talked about privacy this morning.  So we've covered quite a few issues.  But I believe you were going to give us a bit more background also on the Digital Civility Index.  Would you like to tell us a bit more, Larry? 

     >> LARRY MAGID: As you and others know, Microsoft have been doing this research for a number of years.  And what they said ‑‑ and this is what prompted my initial question ‑‑ is that 82% of the 23 countries that they surveyed said that online civility was net worth.  I think an exception was Colombia.  They are having a better experience there.  But in general ‑‑ and I am not going to go through the details of the survey because it's kind of technical, but in general, we are seeing a deterioration, and I think that that's really the top line of this survey.  The fact that negative outcomes are primarily what we are seeing.  We have seen a couple of exceptions.  Apparently false and misleading information, they have seen a bit of an improvement, so that's good news.  But in general, bad news.  And I think it leads to the broader question of, you know, what is going on in the world, and really from young people's perspective, how can we turn this around?  And I say "we" because all of us, as stakeholders, older folks included, have an interest in seeing this turn around.  Janice, you and I have been around long enough to see trends go up and down.  We have seen crises averted.  We have seen, for example, many cities have cleaner air now than they had when I was a child.  So it's not as if, just because we are having a downtick and we have had a bad couple of years, that we have to, you know, hang our heads and think that the future is bleak.  So I guess what I would want to know ‑‑ and again, I apologize if this has been talked about.  But we have young people on the line.  What are they going to do?  What are we, collectively, led by young people, going to do to turn this around and really deal with the crisis that we are dealing with misinformation, hostility, anger, resentment, all of the things that are plaguing much of society these days? 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much, Larry, and we are going to get on to that question, but I see at long last, our youth from Malaysia has managed to get in.  Good morning, Ariff Azam.  Would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself and perhaps answer Larry's question first? 

     >> ARIFF AZAM: Hello, everyone.  My name is Ariff Azam.  I am from Malaysia, I am 20 years old, and I am currently studying law in Malaysia. 

     So answering Larry's question previously, I would say that there's nothing much that we can do.  I mean, there's a lot of things that we can do as a youth, but the thing is that we do not know where to start.  So I think it is our imperative to somehow let our curriculum, for example, our syllabus of education, to instill what is actually digital civility.  Most people know how to use Internet or, like, to utilize such technologies, but when it comes to being civilized in cyber space, what we can do?  Some people are just being mean in general; right?  So as youth, we know how to utilize those technologies, but what we can do?  We do not know where to start.  So this is very important.  Educational institutions play a vital role in somehow implementing digital civility because I feel like most young people are not aware of such idea; right? 

     So I think we, as youth, we do not know what to do, but we can do something.  So as a youth, there's nothing much we can do as of now because we are not really taught, we are not taught about this.  But the least we can do is just being civilized in cyber space and just being more aware of technologies so we can be more digitally literate about something.  So I think that's my point of view. 

     >> MODERATOR: Well, thank you is much.  You are throwing it back onto our shoulders.  You can do it, but first of all, people need to tell you what to do and give you the tools.  And perhaps that leads to a very interesting thing.  I read the other day that resilience, you can sum it up with five Cs.  Resilience is the competences, and empathy is one of those competences.  Resiliency is also the control of the tools and knowing how to use, for example, the settings on social media.  But it's also the connections, having someone you can share with and where you can get help whenever you need it.  There are probably a lot of other things.  You are talking about education, which is alongside competencies.  So I wonder what other solutions we've got.  Can Nina offer us a solution to Larry's question? 

     >> NINA FORTIKOVA: Well, of course, as was previously discussed, I think education is a big part of it.  But I also think that informing the youth online as well could help.  Like, for example, like paid Instagram posts, just like reminding people to be polite and to think about the actions and the consequences that their actions have online also help because it could help to remind the youth that may have already even been educated about it to, like, behave with respect online. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: May I ask a related question about youth activism?  I actually come from ‑‑ when I was your age ‑‑ I know that sounds funny to say that ‑‑ but it was right in the middle of the Vietnam War, and young people around the world I think were largely responsible for convincing the United States and other countries to change a policy, and we ended a war that seemed like it would never end.  I have never given up that optimism that I had at that point, having been part of that movement.  And I am wondering how that translates to the crises of today, whether it's the environment, the climate challenge, and the reason I say this is because digital civility is not simply just behaving yourself, being nice people.  It's great to be nice people.  But it also means involve people, taking those passions, channeling anger to where it really belongs, which is whether it's oppression or misogyny or racism or climate crises, authoritarianism.  How can the voices of young people be mobilized to really focus on some of those pressing world problems?  Which I think, frankly, if you were universally mobilized, that might help some of the situations that we are talking about today. 

     >> MODERATOR: Dana, do you have a solution? 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: I actually don't really know how to answer this question, so I would just say ‑‑ honestly, I don't know.  So if anyone else could answer. 

     >> MODERATOR: Do you feel that you actively participate?  Are there any things that really, really are important to you, where you make sure that your voice is heard? 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: If we back to, like, what we were saying, like about education and stuff like that, I think it's really important, and also privacy.  Everything that we told before is really important to today's digital civility and stuff.  So I think yeah. 

     >> MODERATOR: But what's one thing that you have done to share your ideas and to push other people to act?  Can you think of one thing that you've done so far, perhaps as a member of the Council for Digital Good, where you have shared an idea and you have pushed people around you to act?  Is there any example you can give me? 

     >> DANA JARKOVIC: Maybe even for the Council that we do, we sometimes do presentations to represent any sort of topics, and I think maybe even to, at schools, I have definitely told even my friends how to act everywhere on social media and Internet as the big, like ‑‑ on Internet at all. 

     >> MODERATOR: That's great.  So you are active, and this is really digital civility, teaching others, participating.  What about Diana? 

     >> DIANA:  Yeah, actually, I have ‑‑ my school mate actually has made like an organization.  First it was just only an Instagram profile, when they were spreading awareness of what was happening in my country.  Because teenagers my age don't really know what the government is doing in our country and how much power it actually holds.  So now it's a whole organization, and basically, they organize broadcasts against the government, and I think it's a really good example of how much power the youth has if we connect, if we spread the awareness.  The fact that we already have Internet and the fact that we can spread something so fast by just clicking a few buttons and already so many people can see it, I think that is, like, a pro about the Internet these days. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  Thank you.  

     >> JIM PRENDERGAST: Janice, it's Jim.  If I could just interrupt.  Felicia has also joined us, but she shows up as Jennifer Chung.  So we may want to bring Felicia into the conversation here as well. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Yes, please, Felicia, and I think that Eyja has also joined us.  Felicia, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and give us an example of where you are really active in trying to change the world to make it a better place? 

     >> FELICIA YUNIKE: Hi.  I am Felicia.  I am from Indonesia.  And actually, I am a social science student.  My background is business law, but I currently study international law. 

     So speaking of digital civility, I will say that I am not sure if some of you have brought up the idea of mental resilience, so I think it's quite important to bring up the idea of mental resilience.  What does that mean?  I would say that in simple words, mental resilience is about how we don't get easily triggered by people saying, especially on the social media, because as far as I observe, when it comes to using social media, I would say that there are some young people who get easily triggered when reading offensive comments.  However, I would say that in the digital space, everyone is equal as in if they have this difficulty, such as of today, people have this opportunity to open up their own mental health issue, I would say, and they just, you know, they just practice awareness, like the others say, that spreading awareness is quite important.  So I will say that digital space is quite important, that give people equal opportunity to hear their point of view.  So yeah. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, and yes, we started speaking about resilience because I agree, it's really important.  I believe now that we have the young person from Iceland, Eyja.  Eyja, would you like to come in and give us your ideas and tell us a little bit about what you have been doing?  Because I know you have been very active in trying to make Internet a better place, a more civil place. 

     >> EYJA: Yes, hi.  I am Eyja.  I think that what I have done is that I live by the golden rule, always.  And I think when somebody does it, that other people will try to imitate that behavior, and so we really need ‑‑ I am trying to find the right words. 

     >> MODERATOR: Role models, perhaps? 

     >> EYJA:  Yeah, exactly.  But I have been very active in making prevention videos and such.  Yeah. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Great.  What are some of the focuses on your prevention videos?  What do you actually say in the videos? 

     >> EYJA:  We are working right now on a video about how parents and how they can ‑‑ how they should act.  Because they are the children's role models.  So that, and the children always try to imitate their parents because they look up to them.  So I think that children and teenagers often get, I think, bad reputation, but it really starts with how the parents and the people around them, the community, is acting.  So yeah. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: It sounds like you are the role model for the parents, which is perhaps very appropriate.  Thank you. 

     >> MODERATOR: I am wondering if we have Shamy or Malek from Morocco with us.  Have either managed to get in? 

     >> JIM PRENDERGAST: Janice, unless they are coming in under someone else's name, I don't believe they have joined us. 

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  They could have come under the name of Lucy or Yousef.  No. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: I don't see them in. 

     >> MODERATOR: I would like to put the microphone around the room for a little moment and tell us how you are actively trying to promote digital civility.  You have the microphone there.  Would you like to start from your end?  Pass it around so we all just have a word or two about what we are doing to be active citizens to make the Internet more civil. 


     >> AUDIENCE: Yeah, thank you so much.  That's really important for me, as I said before, education.  And as a young person, I work more likely not formal education but nonformal education system, and I believe that training courses and studies for young people and explain and deliver concrete competencies and skills regarding the Internet and hate speech, especially the one that we said, empathy, I would rather say mutual respect for human rights.  I think this is really important, and yeah, what I do, actually, as a young person is trying to also, as a facilitator, trying to facilitate the processes and training courses regarding the mutual respect for online communication.  I think this is one we can actually achieve. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: If I can ask a follow‑up question, when you talk about education, I certainly understand that, but there are people who, for whom it's not a matter of ignorance but a matter of policy that they are trying to make things bad.  I mean, how do you educate somebody who is going out of their way to spread misinformation or to create hate speech?  And I say that respectfully because if I knew the answer to that, I would be happy to share it myself.  It's a difficult question.  But I'd love to get your perspective on how you push back, people who may be very well educated but are choosing to behave uncivilly? 

     >> AUDIENCE: Well, that's the question, and actually, what we were talking about, mutual respect.  I wouldn't talk about the whole education system, but exactly what we are doing with the (?) system.  Those people trying to join and those people have access who already want to learn about this.  And we invite only those people who are not coming there to crash the process and put their own opinions on it.  But also trying to give them access and, you know, provide them the free and safe space to discuss their own feelings and the solutions that they can put on.  So this is what we believe the system actually provides us, not really the whole education system around the world.  So unfortunately, I am not sure if the question can be covered with the nonformal education system, so I think it's quite different; right? 

     >> LARRY MAGID: I admittedly asked you a very difficult question, but I just wanted to get your thoughts on it.  Thank you. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Sorry, if I could just quickly follow up on that because that was a very interesting line of inquiry.  I think ‑‑ and this goes back to the question that was asked when we were actually members of the audience, which was like there is this perception that things have gotten a lot worse in terms of hate speech, cyberbullying, and so on.  So what are the reasons for it?  And I was the only one in the crowd who raised my hand and said, like, things haven't changed.  Things have always been this way because human beings are naturally very pessimistic, and if you actually look at the hate speech that is being spewed, it's not always by young people.  It's also by older people who have gotten access to things like Facebook.  And this has been very much proven during the latest American elections.  We have seen so much misinformation on hate speech being spread, not only by young individuals, but I would argue more so by people from older generations who are using this technology.  And so I don't want to sound so pessimistic to the point of nihilism, where it's just like, well, this is all that there is to it.  We can't really do anything about it.  Because I want to draw it back to the point on youth activism and what is it that we are doing. 

     I think there are two things.  One is, obviously, the youth activism side of things, but the other point is a technical control mechanism that could exist, which interplays very, I think, very much so with the mental resilience side of things, and I will explain that in a second. 

     In terms of youth activism, what it is that we are doing, I feel like just actively calling people out and saying listen, this is not okay, is something that is very, very powerful.  Because a lot of the time, the reason why I think hate speech and cyberbullying happen quite a lot is because the virtual world ‑‑ because you can't see the consequences of your actions, which is what some of our other panels have spoken about, tends to dehumanize the individual.  This is a war tactic as well as a propaganda tactic.  The only way that you can be comfortable in doing something this bad is if you look at the opponent or look at the other person and don't consider them human anymore.  That, I think, is one of the biggest issues.  And so the more that people call out and say no, this is actually bad, there are consequences to this, that's one of the ways that I feel ‑‑ I personally do, and I think more people should get involved with. 

     The second ‑‑ and I will end this very quickly because I realize I am taking quite a lot of time.  But the technical control measures, and resilience.  There is a "block" button on every single platform.  Learning how to use the Block button or Mute on Twitter or avoid topics on Instagram and TikTok are technical control measures that have been implemented that had we need to have the mental resilience to be able to use.  It's just because we feel like we want to be part of something that we are not necessarily being accepted in, we feel like we need to get constantly exposed to this.  So having the mental resilience to actually think and say, okay, I don't need this in my life.  I should probably block this or take it out.  I think that's another very important way of countering a lot of the cyberbullying, you know, hate speech issues that exist.  That's just my two cents.  Yeah. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Thank you so much.  And I just want to quickly follow up on your initial comment about pessimism.  While it is true that we have a short‑term issue where there has actually been a deterioration in civility, the long‑term data, if you look back over the last 25 years, has all been very positive in terms of many aspects of civility, of crimes against children, behavior, alcoholism, unwanted pregnancy.  Almost all of the things that we worry about have actually gotten better long‑term over the last 25 years.  Again, there may be a temporary dip.  Yet at the same time, as I say that, if you had asked somebody three, four, five years ago, the average person would have said, oh, it's getting worse.  So you are absolutely right.  There is a sort of perpetual pessimism, even when the data happens to be positive.  Right now, admittedly, there is some negative data, but generally speaking, we do need to remind people that young people especially have been pretty remarkable in many ways overall in adapting to the technology and using it in positive ways. 

     >> MODERATOR: Larry, I think that two of our young people want to come in and have their word on this.  I saw that Diana had her hand up.  Diana, did you want to add something here? 

     >> DIANA:  Yeah, I want to answer to Larry's question.  So how would you actually prevent someone from bullying someone?  I would come up to the person and ask them, what if this was your sister?  What if someone was doing this to your sister or brother?  There was this thing where people were talking about abortion.  Some guy was like, oh, I think abortion shouldn't be legal and things.  Then a girl came up to him, and she was like what if it was your girlfriend or your sister?  What would you do?  Would you think abortion still should be illegal?  So I think that's how I should do it and prevent it. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thanks.  And Ariff Azam also had something to add.  I saw his hand up. 

     >> ARIFF AZAM: Hi.  I am actually trying to respond to previous speaker.  So he said that it is very good for you to use that control mechanism, where you can just block and use that kind of button.  But the thing is that we have to understand that it's more on the individual aspect, where we can defend ourselves from being uncivilized because we want to defend ourselves from being affect bid such negative comments.  But how about these kind of people who did such hate speech?  Right?  So I think it's like not really effective to ourself because we know how to defend ourselves from being affected by such negative comments, but how about those people?  Are they going to somehow be punished for being mean on social media or on Internet?  Because we are not the ones doing the hate speech; they are the ones.  So it's more like a double‑edged sword where we can see there are pros and cons between such tools. 

     And then another thing is that I think digital civility is not just about empathy.  It's more than just about that.  Such as how the Internet works, understanding data, practicing digital literacy.  So in order to attend digital civility, I think these are the key concepts we need to dissect and also need to take into account.  Most of the time people think about, like Larry said before, digital civility is not just about empathy.  It's more than that.  This is why I think the key concept of digital civility must be somehow illustrated on what you want to achieve.  Because at the end of the day, we do not have like a clear answer, a clear definition of what digital civility is.  At the end of the day, we only think digital civility is only about enmity.  That's all for me. 

     >> MODERATOR: Felicia, you also have your hand up? 

     >> FELICIA YUNIKE: I would like to add to what Ariff just said, I truly agree on his point of view.  I would say when facing this issue of some cybercrime on the Internet, I would say that blocking mechanism is not an effective way to tackle this issue.  So we need to ‑‑ what I am trying to point out is we need to understand up for some kind of accountability or responsibility.  For example, we can bring this issue to some kind of institutions, for example, like legal enforcement, which can help us tackle and go against the perpetrator.  Because when we try to block these criminals or perpetrators' account, they can use the other account to do the same things.  So I would say blocking mechanism is not an efficient way to merely tackle this crime.  Or hate speech, like you said before. 

     >> MODERATOR: I think that you have brought us to a second question, which we planned to do on a poll but I don't think we can.  I would like you to raise your hand if you ‑‑ when you hear the answer that you think is correct.  So why do young people rate the level of digital civility higher than adults?  Is it because young people more easily accept posts and comments that adults find mean and don't find funny?  Is it because young people don't fully understand the term "digital civility"?  Is it because people aren't really bothered by things such as online reputation or I don't know?  So who would answer the first?  Young people rate digital civility higher than adults because they more easily accept posts and comments that adults find mean and not funny?  Would you agree with that?  Yes?  Yes, we've got a couple who agree with that.  And online?  Oh, yes.  Three ‑‑ oh, three of our young people online. 

     The next one, young people don't fully understand the term "digital civility."  Raise your hand if you think this is the case, and you can have more than one answer. 

     Now, that is interesting.  Young people do believe that they understand the term "digital civility." 

     And thirdly, young people really aren't bothered by things like online reputation?  We have one hand raised online.  Two.  No other hands raised. 

     I would like to move the microphone now around ‑‑

     >> LARRY MAGID: Janice, can I ask one more question? 

     >> MODERATOR: Yes, please go ahead, Larry. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Could it be that young people are more resilient than adults give them credit for? 

     >> MODERATOR: Who would agree with that?  Yes.  Looks like you really hit the case there.  Okay.  Young people are more resilient than what we expect because all the young people online have got their hand up. 

     I'd like to move around the room because I did make these people come up to the front.  Your thoughts on this.  Do you have a microphone?  Enya has the microphone.  You start. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Yes, I think it's smart to say young people are more resilient, but I think people are more resilient the more their environment is supported.  That's why I think it's very, very crucial to educate parents and educators, not only to share awareness between young people, because they know a lot, but because when something bad happens, the reaction of parents and the reaction of teachers is absolutely crucial because they can also influence the other peers, how they will react if something bad happens, for example, cyberbullying.  We see from our research that we do in Poland that many cases, like for example, related to sexting cases, when someone put their naked photos online, the future of the kid who does it really depends on the adults, how they would react, how they would support.  So I think young people generally are resilient, but not that resilient if the adult world will step behind. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Enya.  Anyone else, would you like to have a word to say? 

     >> AUDIENCE: I guess the thing that was said is very important, the support of adults.  We have to, as aware, develop ing humans.  Because our rationale is still developing, we should support younger generations in their Internet experience and journey.  Yeah, that's what I want to add. 

     >> MODERATOR: Did you have a word to say there? 

     >> AUDIENCE: Well, I try to reflect about it in my personal experience.  And that might sound a bit negative, but I feel like the young generations that have actually grown up on social media, with the Internet, might have also just been exposed to so many things that they ‑‑ I don't know the English term ‑‑ but have gotten used to a certain level of bad stuff.  Yeah, not only hate, but also similar topics.  So it also might be the case to a certain extent that they are just used to these levels, and they have learned to deal with it.  I don't know how and to what extent that's part of resilience as well.  Maybe you have some points on that.  But it's not a good thing to say, but I am afraid that is part of the story too. 

     >> MODERATOR: So the sensitivity has dropped. 

     And would you like to have a last word?  Yes.  What are your thoughts on it?  Did you have any thoughts on it?  Did you want to add anything? 

     >> AUDIENCE: I didn't want to add anything, but I totally agree with what was said before. 

     >> MODERATOR: There's someone.  Yes, come and get a microphone, please.  Someone in the public.  Then I am going to hand it over to you, Larry, to do the last 8 minutes with our young people because we must stop right on the dot of 11:00. 

     >> AUDIENCE: Yes, hello.  I am a member of a network called I Am Here, #Iamhere, and what we do is that we go online, and we counter hate speech and misinformation by posting comments.  We try to be respectful, we try to be benevolent.  And so now we are in 18 countries in the world.  We have 150,000 people.  So we think community can play a role.  You know?  Like being together, supporting each other, protecting each other, and you know, this is a key element of resilience and safety.  So this is what we do.  We think also young people could, you know, maybe be inspired by that, by the fact that as a community, we are stronger and we can really make a change. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  And it's great to have the audience participating like this. 

     Over to you, Larry, for the last 8 minutes, please, and perhaps Ayja wanted to add something, as she's hardly had anything to say. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Okay.  Well, I mean, in general ‑‑ first of all, I want to say this has been a really great discussion, and you know, as somebody who has been involved in Internet safety now since, believe it or not, 1994 ‑‑ that's long before most of you were born ‑‑ Janice also has been around that long ‑‑ I am very excited to hear the conversation.  I believe we've elevated the conversation tremendously over what many have been talking about over the last 20 or 30 years. 

     But I am particularly interested right now as to how those of us who really have a sense that we need to be fighting hate speech, we need to be fighting misinformation, we need to be encouraging civility, we need to be fighting bullying, what we can do.  Because almost anything that I could say ‑‑ and I could, like anybody else in this room, give you a speech as to all the things we should do.  But almost everything I say could have a potential negative unintended consequence.  For example, it's already been talked about by one of the participants that we should push back.  And I have done that.  But sometimes when you push back, you actually wind up creating more anger, and the term is "feed the trolls."  You know, that you should correct misinformation.  But sometimes when you correct information by giving credible sources, like okay, here is an article in The Guardian, The New York Times, whatever, they will say see, that's more fake news.  They will reject the validity of science, of journalism, of government leaders, whatever. 

     So I personally am at a loss to know, and I have been at this for a long time ‑‑ and perhaps some people in the room have some thoughts ‑‑ is how do you push back in an environment where there's just so much negative stuff out there in a way that's helpful and hopefully not hurtful? 

     >> MODERATOR: Diana has her hand up. 

     >> DIANA: I actually have a really great example for that.  In my city, there were a lot of car accidents because of ‑‑ because people were driving under the influence.  And just, you know, it was something about those consequences that happened because of people's stupidity. 

     So then what happened, it was like a community service, and people who were the cause of car accident, they had ‑‑ they went and they took care of people who were disabled because of the car accidents.  So I think ‑‑ so basically, what was the purpose of it is to see what happens to people and what are the consequences of acting the way they did.  So I think that would be a perfect example.  We could do that.  So if someone would be like, oh, I am still going to continue spreading hate speech, we would be like, okay, then we will try to show you what would happen to you if someone would hate on you.  So I think that's a really, I think showing the consequences would be the best solution. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: That's great. 

     >> MODERATOR: And Eyja has her hand up.  I don't know if you seek the hands up, Larry. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: I can't, so thank you for helping on that.  Go ahead, please. 

     >> EYJA:  I just want to say I think the phrase "it takes a village to raise a child," I think that is the key to everything.  And if the community comes together and, for me, education is a very important thing.  Here in Iceland, we have a special class that is called roughly translated Life Skills.  So we ‑‑ it is at least once a week, and we learn something about communication or something.  So I think that is something that we can implement in other countries.  I think it is very important to have a conversation every week about what is new and how people feel.  Because people, they say their emotions and something on Internet, so yeah.  Because some people don't have that support at home.  So I think the school really needs to keep up. 

     >> MODERATOR: I think we've covered a lot of topics this morning.  It's been a really great debate.  I hope we are going to continue it outside or perhaps online.  We have talked about online reputation, bullying, we've talked about the importance of empathy, of education.  I am going to leave the last three minutes to Larry because Larry had great problems getting in, and I think his questions have been really waking us up, making us think about other things.  Over to you, Larry, to finish off the session in the next two minutes. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Well, the final point I want to make ‑‑ and I referenced this earlier ‑‑ about youth leading the way.  Because sometimes parents are actually more of the problem than the young people.  And one of the things that I'd like to hear ‑‑ and I I know we only have a minute or two left ‑‑ from one of the panelists in the room is what do you do when parents are bad role models?  It's very difficult for a child to counter their parents, but sometimes that is the problem.  And at least here in this country, it's a big problem.  Any thoughts on that?  I know that's a hard one. 

     >> MODERATOR: I have a raised hand, and it's Diana. 

     >> DIANA: Yes.  Well, I actually, my parents are like that.  And what I do is I am actually right now I can't do much, but just educate myself.  So I focus on my education, and as soon as I finish my education, I'm out.  I am out of the country.  And I will try to spread the awareness and, you know, teach the parents of what they should do and what they shouldn't because, for example, screen time, you have probably heard of it, I think that's a pretty negative thing because once the screen time is off, the child will start using the device, and it will be on the device for, like, more than ten hours because I have experienced that.  So yeah.  That would be for me. 

     >> LARRY MAGID: Well, one thing that makes me optimistic is, obviously, you are on the verge of being an adult yourself, and if we have more young people like you entering adulthood, perhaps the next generation of young people are going to have fewer problems than your generation does in terms of parental role models.  So thank you for being a future great role model and maybe a present great role model. 

     Any other comments?  And just adults in general, maybe not even your own parent, but how do young people lead?  Because let's face it, if you look at the world, now and even historically, young people are usually at the vanguard of great social movements. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Larry, I am afraid we have to close now.  It's exactly 11:00.  We will continue this conversation.  Thank you.  Good‑bye to everyone. 


     >> LARRY MAGID: Thank you, everybody.