FINISHED TRANSCRIPT
EIGHTH INTERNET GOVERNANCE FORUM
BALI
BUILDING BRIDGES – ENHANCING MULTI-STAKEHOLDER COOPERATION FOR GROWTH AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT
OCTOBER 24, 2013
11:00 A.M. CT
IMPORTANCE OF REGIONAL COORDINATION
IN INTERNET GOVERNANCE
WS 145
NUSA DUA HALL 1
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Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) or captioning are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings
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>> If you're not in workshop, I encourage you to join us at the table because if you have interactions you are able to freely participate. Before we call our workshop to order if we could check that the transcripts are functioning?
Excellent.
>> A very good morning to everyone, we are in day 3 of the IGF workshop and we welcome you to workshop 145, Importance of Regional Coordination in Internet Governance. My name is Sala Tamakikaiwaimaro and I will be moderating and we have panelists from diverse stakeholders groups and bringing the level of expertise. And we also are looking forward to dynamic interaction from the floor this is what it's all about and what we will be doing essentially is we will be looking into practical and tangible illustrations of actual examples of enhanced cooperation between diverse stakeholders groups. And we know that this year, this year's IGF and enhanced cooperation is a key theme running through all the workshops. And many discussions in terms of challenges and many fears in terms of protection of territorial spaces and fears of encroaching over each person's turf. But what we hope to do in this particular panel, clear examples of enhanced cooperation.
With that I like to welcome our first Panelists, Nnenna Nwakanma. So Nnenna?
>> NNENNA NWAKANMA: Hi, people. Did we agree I was going to speak first? Oh, my goodness.
All right. I think Sala got me. I promise I will be speaking on one or two things. I recall in Dubai during the time during the war conference on International telecommunications, somebody said why do we need to define a two‑letter word? Enhanced cooperation? I will ask you that question: Why do you need no define enhanced cooperation and what you get out of it? But in this session we are talking about the need for coordination and I am speaking coming from Africa.
My national IGF it's called ‑‑ devore ‑‑ the.
[ Speaking French ]
>> NNENNA NWAKANMA: That's in French. Ivory Coast. I am also parts of the West Africa IGF.
West Africa is the Western part of Africa made up of 15 countries and I am also part of the Africa IGF which is the continental or we can say the regional forum in Africa. As we move through the national, subregional and regional there are different models of coordination.
In the ‑‑ IGF, we have a President, and a national forum with the secretariat.
They do trainings and that's one reason why IGF is best at its national level.
Actually there's a number of you can call and someone will pick up that number at national level.
Where you come to the West Africa level now things get a bit complicated because in West Africa alone, we have three Official languages. We speak, English, French and Portuguese. So and so it is a challenge to be able to coordinate 15 countries that are in ‑‑ Africa is 350 million in population announcements of at that level the coordination is done by a consortium of different stakeholders. And that is a model we are going to discuss later on here.
And a consortium is led by the free software and open source for Africa and. For the moment what West Africa IGF has a consortium of seven organizations.
At the Africa level we have a secretariat.
That not ‑‑ staffed Secretariat. We just know that the Secretariat is lodged at the United Nations Commission for Africa and it's supported by the EU Africa Union Commission.
Now how does this play out in reality?
All of that I have said are institutional arrangements.
But we still know it's individuals that make things happen.
So what happens is that at every level you will notice that someone is a person that takes care of it. Inasmuch ‑‑ Africa is blessed to be one block of land that makes up the continent and a few islands. And that really makes things easier. And for those who do not know, the African Union that used to be the Organization of African Unity is one the oldest multi‑governmental organizations that exists and this has helped the AU to have Africa subdivided in Subregions and you find out in Africa ‑‑ the subject of ‑‑ the same subregional ‑‑ well, classification of the continent. Now, for each of these we still have subregional economic commissions. So for West Africa we have the economic Commissioner of West African states and that's like the International interstate organization we liaise with. Northern Africa we have another organization. So the way Africa is structured allows for coordination; it allows for interaction; and institutional ‑‑ partnerships.
Let me end here by talking to you about what we call the A ‑‑ Stars it begins with an "A" and "F" and a wildcard. What are AF Stars? AF Stars in the framework of Internet governance working and collaborating together. The first AF Star is called ‑‑ you do an AF and you add relic and you know that's unique for Africa. The second AF Star is network operators group. And there's African, which is the Africa, ICANN group. And the Africa Internet Governance. And there's FLTD, which is the Africa regional organization. There's AF NIC ‑‑ organization for at the national level.
There's ‑‑ the Africa School of Internet Governance.
And there's the Africa ICT Alliance.
And a whole lot of AF Stars coming up. So all of these come together in many sectors. So you have about the same actors, technical academic, Civil Society, international organizations around AF Stars. And it was wonderful for us to above met in Zambia earlier in year in the Africa Internet Summit, which was co‑organized by all the AF Stars. As we leave here I like you to note the next Africa Internet Summit, AIS or whatever you want to call it, will be happening in Djibouti while the Djibouti guy was inviting to us next year no African Summit he said something important. He said in Djibouti you have the Devil's Island. You think you are strong and you have gone wireless and you have cables and we need to you come to the Devil's Island sometime next year during the Summit organized by AF Stars and African Internet governance and you are all invited to this coordinated continent that God has blessed. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you and that was Nnenna Nwakanma from the open source ‑‑ stakeholders within the African continent. Our next Panelist is Oscar Robles from Mexico. And he's from the Latin America and Caribbean Region and welcome, Oscar appreciate your thoughts.
>> OSCAR ROBLES: Thank you.
I will mention some examples of ‑‑ corporation. And aside from Latin America and the Caribbean, I have been involved in some regional initiatives like Latin immigration. Coming here as a LAC board member. Let me tell you the story of the enhanced corporation in the late '90s and I tell you later why this is important. In the late '90s, the region didn't have a regional IP registry. There were very few players in the moment. There were only economic networks and maybe some CDC D studies used to be part of the economic networks as well.
So we tried to part of this regional input registries since the early '90s, but there was no successful effort until there were several other actors like the ISPs and the telecom operators.
So in the late '90s, this more diverse players came into the scene, and then to the table and finally we come up with some agreement and in 2001‑2002 we got this ‑‑ with ICANN. Finally we have the regional input registry. And that's been part of the successful story scene in the region, because NIC is not only in the region, that's one important part of the NIC, but only a smart part of the contribution of the IP registry has come to the region.
We have had a lot of players into the ‑‑ this meetings and forums and like Nnenna was telling us, we have been witnessed the creation of several other organizations in the region. This LC Stars or LAC Stars, the fellows from Africa.
We have been watching and witnessing the creation of ‑‑ as well. Regional organization.
We have been watching the creation of LAC I X the Internet change points in the region that's more recently.
LAC NOC and other efforts like the pre‑IGF in the region.
Together, LAC NIC has made the effort to bring government actors, government players to this meetings. And it's been, like, ten years of events and 20 events, talking about the Internet challenges churn current and future and that's certainly helped to create a very good string in the region and understanding of these issues in different forums. Not only the technical community, but also the government officials that have attended all the these events, the LAC NIC events and the LAC IE X events, regional IGF et cetera.
This is just the beginning. I think this is a very important effort, not only as I was mentioning the operational IP location and the region, but also the other activities that have come into this event. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you. Oscar.
What we have clearly heard is it's very interesting, hearing the African context and looking at the AfriStars and ‑‑ and Africa is pretty well coordinated like the Caribbean Latin region in terms of how they sort of meet annually so discuss strategies and collaboration. It's interesting to hear Oscar and have him talk about the some of the tangible examples like are the setting up of LAC NIC and exchange points. We will dive still into the Latin America Caribbean Region I have the privilege of introducing Bernadette Lewis and she will be expressing her perspective on enhanced cooperation with a focus on Intergovernmental. So Bernadette?
>> BERNADETTE LEWIS: Thank you, Chair. Just by a way of introduction I like to say the Latin America Caribbean ‑‑ the policy instrument or the policy institution for the telecommunications sector.
But given the rapid evolution of technology, and the growth of the Internet, in 2004, we expanded the membership of the Caribbean Telecommunications Union to include private sector organizations, Civil Society, members of the academics fraternity, in addition to nontraditional, the other Caribbean countries that were not traditionally part of the Caribbean community.
In so doing we created a multi‑stakeholder organization. And that has been very effective in enabling us to do ‑‑ to fulfill our mandate. One of the mandates of the CGU is coordination and we work with many organizations, many stakeholders, to ensure that or to encourage pooling of resources, sharing of information, making the best use of what the resources that we have available to us.
And I will give you one very ‑‑ couple of examples. But certainly one of them is that we started actually, sharing our annual agenda with the International Telecommunications Union Caribbean Office. So we share our agendas. We look at activities that are similar, and we actually blend the activities so in the area of spectrum, we have recognized the IGFU was doing a number of programs the CTU was doing a number of programs in Spectrum. We have been able to blend the activities so that when you put them together, there's a progression and you can see a thread of development in a particular line.
And if we don't do that, if we don't attempt to bring organizations together, what you have is a scattershot of activities that do not bear any reference one with the other. And it does not contribute to meaningful development and meaningful advancement. So in blending agendas with organizations we are able to build on the work that's happening and realize a progression that makes sense for the region.
I also wanted to point out that it's our perspective is that no single organization can do the work that is necessary if we are going to support our member countries in their migration to information societies.
So that we work in strategic partnerships, and cooperate with many organizations, such as LAC NIC, Packet Clearing House. We have these relationships, these cooperative relationships that enable us to do our work and we have found that by cooperating with these organizations the quality of our work is enhanced. Because it represents the broader view of the collective community.
And this, our philosophy in terms of coordination, we are going to be expanding it with other organizations and sharing and blending agendas so that we make use of very ‑‑ the effective use of the limited resources and also that we see a meaningful advancement.
That's it, thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Bernadette.
Next up, we have Musab Abdulla from the kingdom of Bahrain on the experience of effective cooperation. Musab?
>> Thank you very much I am from the kingdom ‑‑ the regulator for more specifically and after those first speakers it's going to be very tough acts to follow.
The fact of the matter is that regional, in the Arab region we break down to two broad regional groups, if you will. First is the Gulf Cooperation Council the GCC. Kuwait, Bahrain ‑‑ 22 Arab countries ‑‑ historically coordination across the region has been strong and we reap the benefits in many different areas. When we come to the topic of Internet Governance, rely in some areas we are perhaps lag behind a little bit. And that includes some of the coordination and the communication between the government organizations and the non‑government organizations. So that end, within the last couple of years, the Arab IGF has been established to actually form the platform for this enhanced cooperation. That said it's been a fairly recent phenomenon about the need for coordination at the policy level.
Generally, countries tend to just communicate with each other their policy levels. But the crux, or the focus of the coordination has been primarily at the technical level.
And we have actually made excellent inroads and excellent progress particularly with, for example, our relationship with the RIPE NCC, which is Our RIR.
And the ‑‑ it has been become apparent over the last year or so there's a need for little extra work and effort tying together the diverse elements within the region.
So while it is a work in progress, for sure we can say that the work is picking. We are making excellent inroads. And hopefully, we want to coordinate not only within our region, but across regions to make sure that we leverage each other's experience, because ultimately there's no sense in reworking what has already been done. I think I will give my panelists a chance to interject.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Musab. Next Panelist is streaming in from Japan and she is Yurie Ito. She is the director of Global coordination and APCERT. If she is able to start speaking? Yurie, could you say hello just to test?
Not really. If I could ask the guys to turn up the audio a little bit so the room can hear her? Speak again, Yurie?
>> YURIE ITO: Good morning.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Can you all hear her? Go ahead, Yurie.
>> YURIE ITO: Hi, good morning.
Thank you very much for having me. I'm sorry I couldn't make it there physically.
Now, I was there in the beginning of the week, but now I am back to ‑‑ I am calling you from ‑‑ my name is Yurie Ito. I plan to make my remarks based on my perspectives on what we are doing for the ‑‑ operational communities. How APCERT ‑‑ work together in Asia‑Pacific Region.
And contribute to ‑‑ area.
Is to share how we are doing.
And Internet Governance as well.
Today I am specifically presenting the APCERT in the Asia‑Pacific Region.
Do you have a slide in front of you?
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Yes, Yurie.
>> YURIE ITO: Okay, good. So I will share how we overcome the challenges and have kept the closely working together to make the Internet cleaner and safer and reliable space through managing the regional level.
And just to before I am starting just to clarify, when I am talking about and saying, saying cyberspace cleaner and healthier title talking about ‑‑ but the ‑‑ which consists of Internet infrastructure, such as interconnect servers and devices. Asia‑Pacific start focused on making those devices and services cleaner and healthier. Next slide. This is about the general introduction about Asia‑Pacific.
We were established in 2003 so it's been ten years since Asia‑Pacific was established and we have 26 teams from 19 economies today working together closely. Of course, you know all of the ‑‑ International ‑‑ buildings trust ‑‑ not easy.
There are, of course, significant differences in political systems and ‑‑ infrastructure, and ‑‑ difference. And each team also had different authorities.
So our remediation approach has been dealing with the ‑‑ can be very different.
Next slide, please.
This is just a list of the countries, economies, and CERT teams from the economies.
It's very covering from the region.
I feel we have generally successfully overcome all those significant differences and ‑‑ work together as one big team. I would like to highlight a couple you have key points that have enabled us to achieve that success.
Which is a common goal, which is to set the common goals in this production approach.
Next slide, please.
I would like to initially touch upon the evolution of the CERT community, how those started and how international ‑‑ relation starting. Very fast start is 1989 ‑‑ to early 2000 ‑‑ CERT in place very technical expertise. Like Government research and universities. CERTs ‑‑ so the very first global collaboration of Forum is called ‑‑ which is established in 1990.
And then the region, regional one there's TF, which is the first regional level of ‑‑ collaboration for ‑‑ which was established in 2000. Three years later, we have AP ‑‑ gaining momentum today. Corporation OECD ‑‑ developing function. And also GC search, OAS, each region has CERT collaboration forum.
Now over the past 20 years, with the evolution global Internet services ‑‑ involved as well, cyberspace has become a major national security issue. These national CERTs ‑‑ supplanted by national security. Next slide.
So this is ‑‑ I will touch a little bit about what type of challenges we are facing.
So with the technology ‑‑ rapidly evolved we start seeing targeted ‑‑ attacks or globally. And we see increasing number of creating national security ‑‑ attacks such as Stuxnet and Government and ‑‑
Governments start discussing on cyber‑war ‑‑ and around the world, governments are making accusations and taking sides ‑‑ creating risks. So quickly managing cyberspace and cybersecurity is being seen as a ‑‑ and that actually challenged creating substantial challenges for CERT in technical community pursuing the pursue of international collaboration.
But next slide, please.
APCERT has turned the challenge into an opportunity. The challenge was, of course, competitive approach the involvement of the international ‑‑ organization, potentially breakdown in trust.
CERT and technical community, we were seen as instrument of the state ‑‑ condition. So it's getting a little difficult, but we APCERT actually turned in challenge is to an opportunity.
We walk ‑‑ cybersecurity concerns through many programs. Such as listing here. And cybersecurity exercise, clean‑up programs, awareness campaign, partnership with the other regional CERT forums. We are out there in developed and training, building support through the other regions.
And shared network monitoring system and so on.
We provide trust ‑‑ point of contact for technical hotline between the mechanics and also participate in dialogues and risk reduction norms. Including, the participating ‑‑ AP ‑‑ like a regional forums like AP Star and NIC and we share how we see the situation challenges and ‑‑ the national dialogue in the region.
Next slide, please.
So APCERT has established its primary goal of making the Internet system cleaner and healthier going through cybersecurity in the Asia‑Pacific. As a mutual benefit for all parties using cyberspace. We are focused on clean‑up malware and removing botnets. And with that way, we can set the common goal and making us work all together.
So I would skip next slide.
Slide 8, 9, 10.
Going to the page 10. Just as, I think, the very important key factor of the successful International Cooperation on cybersecurity Space. APCERT turned its focus from security to international risk reduction and dealing with the cyberspace challenges is part of improving the global environment. We believe we can identify the common goals, for mutual benefit in the longterm and we believe such a focus on healthier cleaner cyberspace the success factor in achieving global ‑‑ collaboration. So we are very keen on collaborating all the stakeholders in the region to make cyberspace a safer, cleaner and more reliable.
Thank you very much. That's all from me.
[ Applause ]
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Yurie. We really were appreciate your streaming in. And please stay online because we will be having interaction shortly after.
I have the privilege of introducing Sally Costerton of ICANN who will be talking about some practical experiences from their perspective. Sally?
>> SALLY COSTERTON: Thank you very much for inviting me to be parts of group. I lead stakeholders engagement at ICANN around the world. And our mission, I think, it's fair to say is ambition, which is to try to work with all our stakeholders around the world, ultimately so that everybody who's lives and work are affected by what ICANN does. Our aware that we exist and their rights ands responsible and responsibilities to subtract with ICANN if they want it to. That's very ambitious and we organize it and globally and regionally. In my experience, implementation really is a regional. Yes, you can build a website globally, but pretty much everything else is as somebody said earlier is in the end done by individuals, by real people, in countries collaborating together to solve problems.
And much of what we do in ICANN and engagement is about solving problems. And about providing different kinds of resource to help groups to do their work. That could be money, sometimes. So travel support, for example.
It could be people and increasingly it is people.
I am going to spend a bit more time on that. It could be providing events, where we can bring people together. And to support many of the organizations that people on this panel represent, and many of you in the room represent.
We have done a lot of in this area, in the last 12 months. I think if I am honest, ICANN has always been very committed to regional engagement and outreach and has established very strong relationships with many major regional organizations that are involved in Internet governance, of varying different types over the years.
But it's really been my privilege in the last year to have, perhaps, the greater strategic priority by ICANN's leadership on internationalizing ICANN by which we mean expanding out of its traditional U.S. footprint of the ‑‑ some of you may be aware of that we have expanded into three negotiable hubs so the hub has been split into three so we now have, Los Angeles supporting ‑‑ North America Istanbul ‑‑ and that's three very much about coordination offices there to help to provide support in different areas compliance, legal, but also things like communications, events management, many things relevant to the discussions we have had already here this morning. In addition to that, I have working with me at the moment, eight Vice President‑level engagement leads.
Based all around the world.
They are building strong community groups around them.
In the form of working ‑‑ very much about very much about enhanced cooperation building plants in different regional groupings with cross‑stakeholder groups. Implementation ‑‑ really, around engagement, around outreach, around capacity building. And the role of the ICANN VP in this is very much about making sure that as I say that communities can get its work done trying help it where it needs help. And, of course, representing in many cases a very specific remit around the names and numbers portfolio that ICANN very specifically holds. Those eight people are some of them are here, many of you will know some or all of them.
And I hope that if you don't, and you would like to know more about how ICANN engages in your region, please either come to me or email me and I can connect you to the right person. Having said that human beings do much of the work and they do also how they behave is very important. This collaboration point is so key. I came out of the corporate world. I have been world in ICANN for about 18 months and one the things incapable in with is experience with hiring people and looking for the very best talent. And in this world, we are looking for people with a very collaborative mindset. Who have very good emotional intelligence. You know, who can empathize with what other people need and they do not have an arrogant selfish perspective. And this is very key and this has been very important in terms of my thinking and our thinking, and that of our CEO, who many of you have seen in action this week. He's hard to miss. In terms of bringing together that group with a very strong mission to be supportive and to be helpful.
We have expanded our not just the regional working groups ‑‑ Civil Society, the technical community, and the academics community, but also coordinating as you have mentioned on this panel already at the regional layer with the existing many existing regional groups that are represented here. And I hope that we are opening the doors to ICANN in a way we are inviting people to come in.
I am trying to very hard to make of our resources as available and as understandable to as many in the community as I can.
And I am happy to say that I have experienced in my team experienced tremendous partnership in this community of. Tremendous shared ambition to prove the way we collectively try to solve these complex problems in the Internet Governance space how we manage the precious shared resource, but I think we are making great progress.
In a wider remit, the broader challenge that also faces us is how do we manage the expansion of our communities? Both ICANN‑specific community, and our broader Internet Community? And that's both with people but also with tools and platforms.
And I would ask if any of you are interested in this we are running some very pioneering web development spaces called under a brand ‑‑ a web area called ICANN Labs. And if you are interested in that kind of area, please do go and have a look at ICANN Labs. In summary, I would say a very much a focus on people in the regions, working in partnership every day with the groups. And investment in tools and resources. And always a shared goal of expanding how we communicate and how we help new people to come into understand how to participant. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Sally. We have heard from the Panelists that diverse stakeholders that makeup the Internet Universe, the diverse context and challenge for enhanced cooperation is there and in fact, some of the challenges that some of the panelists have identified are issues of language, diversity, issues of functionality, issues of funding. And one of the things that we have heard clearly is setting of common goals. Particularly in terms of the context of development. We heard from Bernadette as she poke showing the lack of cooperation could skew development and in regions. World where resources are constrained it makes complete sense for there to be effective and aggressive collaboration and it was very interesting to hear from Yurie, as she talked about some of the things that they have had to deal with over the last ten years particularly in terms of looking for opportunities for collaboration.
And one of the interesting things that Sally brought out in her discussion with us, was the issue of reforms, institutional reforms, to cater for this sort of enhanced collaboration, particularly in terms of being more accessible.
And though something Sally raised, which was very, very interesting, she mentioned that there were very keen on hiring people that were not arrogant, that were not selfish, that had a desire to collaborate. And that brings about concepts, and attitudes and it talks about the approach that stakeholders must engage with, coming with the desire to collaborate. Coming with a desire to step back and to say that I am willing to compromise on certain things.
And that was a very, very interesting point that Sally raised.
So with that, we would like to invite you, those of you in the workshop today, to feel free to share your thoughts or if you like to comment, feel free to do that as well. And any of the panelists if you feel like responding to any of your fellow panelists, please do so. The floor is open.
>> Yes, please.
Please introduce yourself for the transcript.
>> My name is ‑‑ development within Arab Region League of Arab states. Actually I totally agree with you about the importance of settings the common goal. We have been working on a multi‑stakeholder models for Arab Internet Governance within the region. As Musab mentioned working on a ISP project working on Arab top‑level domains and working on initiating parallel track to the Arab IGF for enhanced cooperation.
And it's actually a new models for us for the developing states working in such a multi‑stakeholder environment. I totally agree upon the importance of setting the common goal. I believe that this IGF is too much focused on the process and procedures and the products is never mentioned. So I believe if we talk more about the product, about what we are trying to do, maybe then we would reach to a better comprehension of what's the process that we need for multi‑stakeholder cooperation, thank you very much.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you very much, excellent point and I think Nnenna would like to respond? Nnenna?
>> NNENNA NWAKANMA: Yeah, young on from there there's ladies seated second person on the left her name is Anna ‑‑ I think she has been through the holes and the windows and the pathways, of this. That's the lady seated there. She is the one who invited me to the Africa Summit in Zambia and what I learned from there is the question and someone was asking today. Should policy people go to technical meetings?
And should tech people go to policy meetings? And the answer is a definite "yes" and that's the only way we can come out of this, because in my head I said no, I don't do names and numbers. I won't do names and numbers. I pictures myself and look at myself in the mirror and say Nnenna you shall not do names and numbers, but we cannot move forward if policy people like me don't so names and numbers and sit through the boring and shall most ‑‑ shall endeavor meetings. We need to go through all of that torture to come to a balance.
And the small story is while I was at the African Summit, the people of the CERT, people supposed to come in, and do a presentation on the ‑‑ and they could not come. Ratings. Nnenna since you are there we will give you a presentation so look at me, I am standing in front of the certs guys doing a presentation of the ‑‑ CERT and I was saying I don't do names or numbers. So you cannot in this arena, say I am a policy person, I am a names person or a numbers person or this kind of person; we must be willing personally individually, to cross that bridge to cross that professional bridge, not to be afraid, going to the business meeting and see how the DNS business works.
DNS people should not be too bored to sit in the policy meeting. And the shall and must, and the shall and must people should also sits and know how to IPv6 andIPv4work.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: We're hearing that in terms of the tendency or the temptation to work if silos, but encouraging the capacity to come out that and go into new territory, maybe territory that's foreign, because the workshops happening through the past few days have been touching on the potential conflicts. There's a lady ‑‑ go ahead.
>> Hello?
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Introduce yourself for the transcripts, please.
>> My name is Beatrice ‑‑ from the Commission of Kenya asking this question on a personal level. Not necessarily the views of the Commission. My question is most of these meetings, like my African Sister mentioned focuses a lot on policy and on the technical aspect. My question is: Would the organizations or the multi‑stakeholders consider the involving the business end? Because from my perception, there's a lot of the technical involvement in the multi‑stakeholders. You have institutions. You have governments. You have maybe regulators. But in the business world, if someone is not in academics and not interested in technology it's very hard to know what these organizations do. What this governance is and inasmuch as ‑‑ is there way moving forward to incorporate other people outside of our strict organization institutions the governments and maybe a few academics institutions.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you Beatrice the issue raised whether there was private sector involvement in terms of development and synergistic initiatives? I think the question would be best answered by somebody from the private sector. Mr. De ‑‑ sitting right there. Would you like to answer for VeriSign? Synergistic initiatives?
>> Thank you for the opportunity and in fact, I am actor as a ‑‑ member.
I just want to acknowledge the incredible opportunities panel in terms of sharing experience collaboration between different organizations around some kind of outreach to the different communities.
In fact, I have this year have been facilitating during the event the dialogue between interregional and the global IGF and in this sense session has been planned, two of them have been completed and one will be held this afternoon at 4:30. But I just want to make the point is that here in the panel you realize it's not only the linkage between the local and the regional needs; we have a global O‑and global IGF, but as Bernadette had mentioned, is interesting to see the collaboration between these different organizations. That have complementary agendas to solve or to support the needs of some countries of some regions, of some groups.
I have at some point in time, the opportunity to attend the first Pacific IGF with the company of Sala, works ‑‑ to realize how different the needs they have, compared to other regions. I have the opportunity to comparing the Asia‑Pacific IGF, and the Caribbean IGF, or the Latin America IGF.
And you realize that you have to get deep understanding of what are the ‑‑ not only the local needs, but to understand also the culture, the people involved, and how to collaboratively respond to those needs. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Ricardo. Bernadette, sequence. So we will go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Bernadette, please.
>> BERNADETTE LEWIS: Thank you, Chair. I wanted to point out the initiatives the ACU under takes on a fairly routine often. We have awareness building activities that are designed to for different communities in language that is comprehensible to them. And in addition, we do ministerial for where you have the business community; you have regulators; you have people from the academic fraternity and the rule is you don't use any technical jargon, but you speak in language that is comprehensible to the various stakeholders. And this has been very, very effective in bringing diverse perspectives together and bringing diverse players together to speak on issues that are of importance to them.
You cannot do ICT policy or Internet policy without some input from the business communities and without input from policymakers or regulators, or stakeholders, really needs to be involved. All stakeholders. So there's a requirement of raising or reaching out and providing education and the public awareness that is necessary to enable different stakeholders to participate in the discussion on a particular topic.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Bernadette. Go ahead Sir and you are next.
>> Thank you, my name is Hashem from Egypt ‑‑ and I work for the National Telecom Regulatory Authority. I have two ideas that thought it was worth sharing with the audience. Hearing the different initiatives and being involved some, some of these actually, as well I think the challenge is not just to make coordination happen, but to make coordination meaningful. One has to think of an institution ‑‑ analyzing the initiatives and the different efforts.
Three words comes to mind when we speak of about this. Having thought, processes is one.
Being inclusive, especially to the IP ‑‑ because being inclusive is not just keeping the door open ‑‑ and, of course, building trust. So the processes and building inclusive.
By combining these three things, I think, one could reach a meaningful coordination effort at the organizational level. Speaking now as coming from a government active, also, all these initiatives and all these organizations working at different levels, Nnenna has mentioned a big list of entities in Africa, and other lists mentioned by my colleague in the ‑‑ region there's a pressure on all our agencies and companies in terms of institutional capacities.
Not one entity can cover all aspects.
One benefit of coordination at the international level is to actually mobilize expertise from different entities in the region with similar circumstances so it's worth the effort.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you very much.
Very excellent points.
>> I am ‑‑ [ Inaudible name ] from Kenya.
I am here as an Internet Society Ambassador. My contribution is multi‑stakeholderism can be more enhanced through legislation. By passing laws at the regional levels or at the local Parliaments. A good example is my country Kenya has a Constitution that has multi‑stakeholder as a models and the President himself actually he insists the all stakeholders have to be involved it if there's to be support from the top, is when this model can actually work best.
Not just as a workshop, but where there can actually be an effect on society. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you. What we are hearing is political will is that what you're saying? High‑level political well from the top‑down. Centra? Would you like to.
>> My name is [ Inaudible name ] from Trinidad and Tobago, there's a wide range of countries and interests.
You have countries like Brazil, partnered with Caribbean, small Caribbean islands, like, Haiti.
I want to ask the panelists how you feel regional coordination facilities specific communities of interest, rather, than just by regional groupings but also in terms of small islands developing states' interests, for instance?
>> Sally, would you like to answer that?
>> SALLY COSTERTON: Sorry, just the last part of the question? Would you mind repeating it.
>> Sure. I would like to know how you manage to coordinate both on a level that's regional, but also that enhances alignment with communities of interest?
>> SALLY COSTERTON: Thank you. I think you make a really good point. It's a very perceptive question. Because when we think about what we need to ‑‑ I was going to say to get out of these engagements not quite the right word but we talk about what when he put in and how we collaborate and share, but in the end communities wants specific things to help them as well. It's a two‑way process. I think at my answer to you is I think it depends by region. I am depending on the individuals involved. But certainly, I would like to see and I would love ICANN to do everything it can to help this process much better sharing of what in the corporate world we call best practice. So there are communities of interest who may be across different regions, but who really needs to connects with each other and who can help each other more quickly if we join people together and I think we need to think more creatively but how we do that. Outside the traditional functional silos as somebody was talking earlier, policy technical community are well‑established. But to get people together ‑‑ for example, ICANN has this today, news Flash ‑‑ has put the first four new IDN global top‑level domains into the root. This is today. And this is an historic thing.
Now, many of ‑‑ thank you ‑‑ many of the IDN the International Domain Name applicants wants the domains to protect communities.
By language, or by cultural affiliation around the world. So I don't think the answer is always build a domain top‑level but more creatively to ‑‑ is something we should really listen and take that onboard.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Sally. Nnenna and then Oscar.
>> Thanks I was thinking of your question.
>> NNENNA NWAKANMA: And I am like communities of interest. Stakeholders today.
It's just that within the framework of WSIS there are three bodies of stakeholders, used to be three, but now we are going gently into four or five. In island states you still a have stakeholders groups. When we come to this IGF meetings, the main things do not happen during the panels and sessions. They happen in between the panels and outside of the walls.
So you still need that stakeholders group to pursue your own interests. But linking that now not question she was asking about the business group, someone was saying today and that rightly the business is wired to do 90% results, 10% process. What is it you have to do? That's the easiest part of business and then you ‑‑ the money is how business does. Government is not wired that way. And Civil Society will not be wired that way. But what we are looking at the digital economy. In which we are not just stuck in one stakeholders group alone. I come here as Civil Society, and many people see me as Civil Society, but I actually run a business. And my next client for whom I am rolling out a training is Economic Commission for West African states. Last night I was sending out my pro forma ‑‑ that's business for me. What I am saying is I cannot corner myself in a business attitude. I am going anywhere where my business interest is. And policy people give me business. Is the thing is we cannot make a business of the Internet. Maybe a business with the Internet without understanding how it works. Without understanding of how business is made out of it. So business people cannot sit and wait to be invited. No, you have to come and understand how this works. And finally, I want to say there are pure Internet businesses now. There's a gentleman who was seated here I don't know if he left ‑‑ there's a whole DNS business boom. So will DNS business guy sit and say, no names and numbers, our technical group are not business issues? No. I myself I always keep an eye on business initiatives. I am going to buy some stuff in bulk and sell them later. Trust me, so if I am hanging around here totaling you I am a civil service person. Don't kid me I am with business. When you go back to Kenya, tell the business guys we talk in IGF, but later on when we move back some checks are signed so they need to come around.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Wow. Kenya has been touted to be the Silicon Valley of Africa? Oh, it is? Thank you.
>> Please allow me to answer that. Thank you for your information.
>> Say your name.
>> My name is ‑‑ I am from Kenya.
And I am very thankful for the information you have given. However, there's some miscommunication in understanding the problem.
The problem is not that Kenyans don't have entrepreneurs. We have entrepreneurs.
I was asking the question at a personal level.
I am a policy person and also a technical person so it's not an option of either ‑‑ this was a very general question and the question was: In our information how do you attract people who don't come to these meetings? I am not talking about the ‑‑ in to you're societies already here and making business aspects out of it. I was asking the question into the entrepreneurs who were outer there and not in the mainstream and not interested in governance or Internet Governance per se.
So how do you translate our language to theirs?
Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you. Beatrice and the numerous examples ‑‑ you have incubators business ‑‑ for now, Musab would like to.
>> Thank you very much. I think I will touch on a couple of things to tie together a couple of points and I will start and lead up to eventually, how to answer your question how to engage them. One the things I think is vitally important is there's clear representation of the different interests. Because we keep talking about the stakeholders and the stakeholders. But our ‑‑ let's say we have a stakeholder from Civil Society. Do they necessarily represent all civilizations or their Civil Society?
Likewise, government and likewise business.
So the clear representation of this is how we're going to get all viewpoints into the pot to make a decision. Which leads mow in the term enhanced cooperation. As my colleague said, essentially what we are looking for is meaningful coordination here.
And meaningful coordination is effective, it's streamlined. And in pretty much all cases, it's about reducing noise.
There's ‑‑ we live in a day and age there's such a glut of information it's hard to sifts the jewels from the dross. You get that and you get clarity and I think that's a big parts of how you engage people, because we have now heard about how technical people don't understand the policy side and vice versa. There's so much for to absorb. Layperson who has concerns and a viewpoint to share they're not sure where to go with it. So I think that's perhaps, reducing noise and being clear on where going might be the best way going forward. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Musab. Before I summarize today's discussions, Adele can you do it in two minutes? And Oscar? Two minutes.
>> I want to maybe stress on the involvement. All stakeholders and, especially business it's an issue ‑‑ for few reason. We have tried look at this, the first thing is that getting interest in Internet Governance mean that your business has some aspect of ‑‑ most of the business involved in Internet in our region still have very local scope. So the first thing is how do we make sure that there is a relay in each of those countries about the relevance of the Internet Governance ‑‑ the global Internet Governance locally? So by thinking global to apply global ‑‑ we have few example on that on how sometimes policymakers instead of trying to ‑‑ policy the relay the message to make it relevant to business. That is one thing.
And naturally when the business, or Internet industry, in developing country will go global they will get involved in the global Internet Governance issue, because they will see the impact directly on them. I will give a very simple example. Few years ago, we had been approached by policymaker from Nigeria about IP addresses.
Where local businesses were giving different message about IP address we took time to explain to the policymaker ‑‑ they didn't get that message to the policymaker ‑‑ the policymaker able to send the message to elaborate the message to their business and got involved in the process ‑‑ how to register the number how to make the job more easy for the policymaker. There's been no change in the multi‑stakeholder process, but this has been about information so how do we relate the global issue about Internet Governance locally? That's the issue and everybody has a responsibility on that.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Asel. I have been told that we have 13 minutes. So there's time for people to make comments. But to allow for people make comments we ask you to limits to two minutes. Oscar, please.
>> OSCAR ROBLES: Thank you, let me briefly react to the discussion that legislation is needed in order to improve the multi‑stakeholder reason in the countries. I understand that there's no need‑for‑legislation, but we just need willingness from the government and we have to be very carefully, because multi‑stakeholder is a very complex issue for governments. They are not used to consult other areas or everybody in order to execute or to do some action.
The what's ‑‑ teach they will not teach to ‑‑ to make this consultations broadly.
I mean most of the decisions that the governments have to make are done within the government. So this is a very complex process and rather than awareness process, rather than a single acts, like the legislation.
And that's only one part of the equation. The other part of the equation is that the rest of the community, the business, the Civil Society, academy and all these organizations we need to understand the challenges of every discussion that we are holding.
It is not only about technical parameters or names or just numbers.
It is many issues that we have to consider. And we have to be taught on these issues as well. It's not only the government to understand the multi‑stakeholder is; it is on also about us to understand that it is not only the technical discussions ‑‑ it is not anymore technical discussions. That's where, I think, that contribution like LAC NIC has helped to improve the level of discussions, putting together in a single space in this meetings people from governments and people from academia and the technical side to share the experiences. Of course, it has to be brought to the local level to actually do actions and execute local strategies. Not staying at the dialogue level only. But that's something that has to do and has to happen at the local level.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you, Oscar.
I would also like to add that clearly what's been coming out of apart from having the need for common goals, the need for common language, but something that has to take place well before that is the need to have clear vision and clearly, for there to be a clear vision there has to be a shared vision of what it is that you want to build.
Particularly in terms of identifying goals and laying objectives. So despite the different interests, despite the different stakeholders groups and diversity of expression and despite of different challenges whether it's languages, geographical distributions nationalities or scope, but having a clear vision makes people ‑‑ allows for a coordinated approach how people will engage and that came across clearly were the panelists discussions and also from interactions from the floor.
And in the context where we are at a juncture where people are questioning is there enhanced cooperation? Can it be done? Here we have panelists saying that it is being done and it has been done and it's been in the process of everything the Internet community has been in existence, there's been enhanced the cooperation across the regions all over the world. You have Internet Exchange scattered across the world. You have policy collaboration taking place at multiple levels. Diverse forums and whatnot. The challenge for our community is how do we share the lessons and experiences? So I am happy to advise that we will be putting together a report, Mr. Yemen Valdez of NRO will be consolidating a report of today's discussions. Now if you feel that there are things you would like to add to the dialogue, even though we have limited time here, please feel free to email him your comments, your contributions. And share your experiences from your countries, from your communities, from your organizations. So we can celebrate these experiences. Does anyone wants to have any last word before we wrap up today's discussion?
Any other panelists? Sally?
>> SALLY COSTERTON: Thank you.
I just wanted to say one last words. I think on the question of how do we widen business engagements?
And I don't think it's just business, by the way. I think it's users. I think it's ‑‑ what sometimes you hear people refer to as "normal" people. And I think the idea that this is the biggest challenge I face in my day job. Honestly, how do we go and find the people that we need who do need us, they just don't know they do yet? And one of the biggest challenges is, is that how do we make it compelling and relevant so they come to the table, because the government the multi‑stakeholder model relies on more voices, more people insisting they have their seat in order to be truly successful it's not a nice to have in my view. But a must‑have. ICANN model. I feel positive this probably shares that sense. Thank you.
>> SALA TAMAKIKAIWAIMARO: Thank you Sally and the point that Adele made neatly wraps up our discussions for today when he said it's important to communicate the power of information and coordination and all the things that were shared today. And this workshop would not have been possible without the excellent assistance of the NRO staff and we thank Yemen and the team those who facilitating the remote moderation and the assistive staff for facilitating the moderation. And we also thank those who are translating the discussions and don't forget our panelists who is remotely streaming and sacrificing sleep time. 9Give her a hand. Thank you, Yurie. And also thank you panelists for a wonderful time and with that our workshop is now concluded. Thank you.
[ Applause ]
[ End of File ]
11:25 PM CT.
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Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) or captioning are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings
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