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IGF 2018 - Day 2 - Salle I - DEVELOPMENT, INNOVATION AND ECONOMIC ISSUES

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 

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>> MODERATOR:  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main session on development, innovation and economic issues titled effective policies for inclusive and prosperous digital transformations. 

Technologies have the potential to act as catalysts for the UN 2030 agenda for sustainable development and help advance all 17 sustainable development goals and constituent targets.  At the same time, rapid technological change poses new challenges and can have unintended consequences. 

We have convened leading experts from diverse and relevant stakeholders and communities to explore policy considerations and approaches needed to leverage the Internet and ICTs to facilitate common development goals and present how the IGF communities are engaging in work related to the sustainable development goals. 

For this main session will consist of three sections.  In the first segment we will be setting the scene through expert interventions and deliberations.  The second segment, we will invite IGF dynamic coalitions and the third segment we will have a question and answer session where I invite you to raise questions to our panelists. 

I name is Nadia, I sit on the steering community of the DC youth coalition on Internet Governance.  I'm joined by my comoderator Diego Molano, the chair of Business Action to support the initiative and former minister for ICT of Columbia. 

I would love to invite Diego to introduce our experts. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you so much.  Thank you, Nadia.  Thank you, everybody.  Thank you for being here after lunch.  This is going to be a long session but I think it is going to be very, very productive.  So my first task is to introduce our panelists and what I'm going to do is not doing my task, I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves. 

Before that, to truly get to know each other a little bit better, I'm going to ask everybody to introduce yourselves and also tell us something else about you.  Tell us something not related to your job.  Tell us a secret you haven't told anyone.  I'm going to start myself.  My name is Diego Molano.  I'm the chair at ICC.  My secret is I can't sleep, not because of jet lag.  It's because on Thursday night I have to get home to have a very serious talk to my wife.  Basically because in this new world of entrepreneurship I invested our three‑year savings into a venture capital fund and it collapsed.  She told me not to do it but I did it without her authorization.  Let's start with Celine. 

>> CELINE SAADA‑BENABEN:  I am the general manager for eBay in France.  I've been with eBay for 12 years and I've been working in the field of ecommerce for close to 20 years, so quite a long time. 

The things I haven't told anyone, and that's not going to help my credibility, is I once was Goofy in a Disneyland park.  So picture me as Goofy. 

>> MODERATOR:  That's fantastic.  Jackson, it's your turn. 

>> JACKSON CHEBOI:  Thank you very much, my name is Jackson Cheboi.  I come from the Communications Authority of Kenya.  My DNA traces back to law enforcement.  I've walked a very long path from systems to digital forensics in law enforcement and probably in the next two or so years I'll be going to farming.  Pleased to be here with you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Bishakha. 

>> BISHAKHA DHATTA:  I am from India and I work for Point of View.  My secret, I'm tempted to make up a fictional secret but I will tell you a true secret and that is I'm actually a DJ in training.  So I've been taking DJ lessons. 

>> MODERATOR:  Can we try that tonight.  Andres. 

>> ANDRES SASTRE:  I'm Andres Sastre from the Inter‑American Association of Telecommunications Companies.  I'm Spanish but I'm working in Uruguay.  Really I don't like very much, the first time I saying. 

>> MODERATOR:  You haven't told us a secret. 

>> MODERATOR:  I composed a song to submit to the Eurovision but I didn't submit it. 

>> MODERATOR:  So it looks like tonight we can have a good party, DJ and a songwriter, that's fantastic. 

It is time for our panelists to have their first talk. 

>> MODERATOR:  I'd like to take over and ask Mr Jackson Cheboi what barriers do developing countries face when deploying projects to facilitate digital transformation and what lessons can be learned to be used to build pragmatic, scaleable models.  I ask you to stick to the three minutes that we have been able to allocate for this.  Thank you. 

>> JACKSON CHEBOI:  Thank you.  Digital transformation is priority for all.  I mean industries, from small to big ones, governments.  It's much of a change, a cultural change.  Although it's common, although it shares some common challenges globally, including budgetary constraints, lack of full visibility across the digital or end‑use experience, lack of buy in from the leadership, prioritizing the initiatives, you find that in the developing economies they are unique challenges or barriers that impaired the transformation. 

Most of it is because of the culture.  People misconstrued when they put the first infrastructure.  It's lack of general understanding on the whole concept of digital transformation. 

Second one is the complexity and rigidity in legacy infrastructure systems calling for expensive bridges between them.  Which sometimes do not work compatibly hence dropping the whole idea and it's costly. 

Third one is the lack of skilled personnel which is synonymous to the developing economies given the fact that the technology and its knowledge base is not within those countries. 

Cyber security scared away such economies because the fear of the unknown, attributed by both poor legal and regulatory environment and this has made people not to accept the move towards the transformation. 

The last one is about the exponential growth and diversification of technology.  Developing economies have prevents becoming too high in speed and so economies have dropped from it. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Jackson.  I think we're going to switch to Spanish, if you can have your headphones.  Andres, he represents telecommunication companies in Latin America which for most part are private.  A proper ecosystem, a stable one is crucial for the citizens, the people to benefit from technologies and to benefit from development of the opportunities that ensue.  What role can the private sector play to facilitate that? 

>> ANDRES SASTRE:  Thank you very much, Diego, thank you for your question.  To be concrete for the three minutes we have, the role that we should play is to generate trust among the citizens, to continue improving trust and improbability in our services and to work with the governments to enhance human capital with the universities.  We have to continue to improve connectivity.  This has to do with interoperability of the system. 

Quite some time ago the telecommunications services based on universal connectivity and interoperable and open but that doesn't happen throughout the digital ecosystem.  We have to improve operability in web services in which interoperability is perhaps not to par.  We can change from one platform to another but there's still some uncertainty about what happens with our data.  We have to improve that in order to enhance trust amongst the citizens. 

Trust also has to do with safe security and with speed.  Emerging economies need to digitalize their productive processes.  That requires proper management of data but that should not take place at the cost of privacy. 

Two years ago there was a survey in Latin America on trust and security amongst the citizens.  64% of the citizens said they were more concerned with speed whereas a year ago 75% were more concerned with the use made of data by private companies.  This also concerns the small companies which are afraid to digitalize their processes to put them on the web because they might suffer from data theft.  So therefore we have to create a trustworthy system, a system which the user knows how his data and his privacy is managed. 

Yesterday President Macron referred to that.  I think the private sectors to protect the users, to protect their privacy and at the same time to maximize the use of data and to develop the digitalization of the productive process. 

In the emerging economies, private companies can help training human capital.  Two out of three young people are not prepared for jobs that require that technical expertize.  We have to promote educational programs so people not just understand but create technology.  We have to cooperate with universities and with governments in that respect.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  I would like to invite Celine Saada‑Benaben to answer this question.  What are the main policy elements necessary to help encourage and skill up innovation and investment in ICTs?  How can we ensure small businesses and enterprises in remote locations can benefit?  Thank you very much. 

>> CELINE SAADA‑BENABEN:  Let me do that in French English.  I do believe that private companies, and in particular eBay, already create digital opportunities for very small companies and for companies of all sizes. 

Since its creation over 20 years ago, eBay has been providing a secure and global platform that enable all sellers from all sizes and almost all countries to reach the world and to be able to sell their product to over 170 million buyers in the world. 

Today we've got millions of sellers, small, large, again from very different countries.  As an example, 99% of the small businesses we've got in France currently sell in 20 countries and more. 

The only thing these companies have to do is to have the product.  Once they've got the product, they list on the site and they don't need any form of investment.  They only pay a small fee in case they sell.  And they've got similar chances wherever you are, whether you're a small company, whether you're an individual seller, whether you're someone who just has that as an additional job, you've got the same chances of being visible for all of the buyers in the world and we do not have any product to push. 

We are completely convinced that SMEs will be creating goals in the future.  We believe private companies and public authorities should join forces to enable that growth. 

The sellers are telling us the following elements and are are giving us very consistent and pragmatic feedback on things we could help them with.  The first one is making sure that everyone has full access to high‑speed Internet and everywhere.  You don't want entrepreneurship to be hindered by slow access to Internet, at least it shouldn't be the objective.  This is the first side of the coin.  Once you've got that the second part that we need is shipping infrastructure and logistic infrastructure. 

We need the infrastructure to be fast.  We need the infrastructure to be reliable.  You need infrastructure to be affordable.  And you need it to be transparent.  If you want to sell a product across products, you can't ask a small SME or individual seller to have four different tracking numbers for the parcel to be able to share that information with buyer. 

Trust is critical and part of it relies on the ability to provide transparent information. 

The third thing that we need is simplicity and harmonization of the exports framework.  That revolves around customs, that revolves around taxation and all of the administrative side that has to be done in every country.  Again, just in Europe how can you ask one seller to know all the VAT rates for each and every single product in the countries that they're selling? 

These are some of the areas and very simple and quite pragmatic on which we need to work on collectively.  We're very happy to be a sparring partner for the different governments to be able to review this.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you so much, Celine.  Now I would like to invite Bishakha.  Jackson said this is not about technology, this is about people.  So technology relies greatly on the ability of the user to understand and engage with technology and in turn become a creator.  What social and cultural policy considerations can help facilitate that? 

>> BISHAKHA DHATTA:  OK, I think this is a really important question and I think the first social and cultural consideration actually has to be understanding that there is a very wide diversity of users of digital technologies, whether these are on old type, simple phones or whether these are on more sophisticated devices that can access the Internet and that users of the Internet occupy not just different countries or different languages or have different income levels but actually also come from different genders, different sexual orientations as well as different abilities.  And that the Internet, as it currently stands perhaps is not a comfortable space for everybody, particularly people who come from less privileged or marginalized sexualities and abilities. 

Some of the cultural considerations would have to be when we talk about access.  Is it enough for a community to have access to the Internet or do we need to go further and see who in that community actually gets access to the Internet, particularly since this is shaped by cultural norms.  I think which sometimes determine that women do not have restricted and conditional access to the Internet. 

I think it means looking at the whole concept of being a bystander on the Internet.  Research is showing that many women, many girls, particularly from low‑income communities who do not speak English or who access the net in other languages, don't feel the sense of confidence, autonomy, agency or belonging to actually participate meaningfully in those spaces and sometimes tend to become bystanders in these spaces. 

It's important to break this to ensure they become creators as well. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much for your intervention.  This now leads us to our second segment and I would like to invite the Dynamic Coalitions team and present findings and the main takeaways from the work and as it relates to the main challenges of the digital transformation. 

I would like to invite Mr Christopher Yu on approaches to connecting the non‑connected. 

>>  Thank you very much, it's an honor to be here.  Our work in the Dynamic Coalition on innovative approaches to connecting the unconnected, is drawing the connection between Internet connectivity and the SDGs.  In fact we believe, and have been told by the international finance community, that that is the missing link for unlocking much of the support and the investment to make the dream of connecting the remaining half of the world that is not online and making it possible for them to enjoy the benefits of Internet connectivity. 

Among the things we are doing is we are doing controlled trials using academic standards, the gold standard of social science research, our randomized control trials using a methodology known as difference indifference.  This is the closest thing we have to measuring causation and it requires a great deal of field work and a lot of trust with various partners who are both deploying the technology and with governments who are collecting the information that provides the strongest basis for assessing the impact of the work that we are doing and that we are studying. 

We have ongoing trials, control trials now in Rwanda, Vanuatu and Nepal looking at the use of connectivity for remote diagnosis for healthcare ailments, maternal health and also for economic development and education outcomes.  And for the first time we looked at the literature assuming that we could draw upon existing studies and learn from their methodologies. 

We were alarmed and fascinated to find out that no such studies exist and when we publish our studies they will be the first ones in the field.  So we believe very strongly we are contributing, hopefully, to a better future. 

We are also participants in the Connecting and Enabling the Next Billions project that has gone through four phases here at the Internet Governance Forum.  The last few years were committed to studying, 4, 5 and 9 on infrastructure.  This year was 7, 8, 9 and 17 economic growth infrastructure and partnerships.  That work is ongoing.  That is available for comment and observation on the website and we would invite your participation and the entire community making that work as strong as we possibly can, thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you so much, Christopher.  Now I would like to invite Olivier Crepin‑Leblond.  Olivier is from the DC on Core Internet Values. 

>>  I'm speaking for Olivier Crepin‑Leblond.  The work of the Core Internet values, the work that it does working to preserve the Internet as a free, global, end‑to‑end network of networks, and in that sense the work that the coalition does helps accelerate the achievement of all the sustainable development goals.  Be it economic growth or gender equality or industry innovation or infrastructure, reduced inequalities, by preserving the Internet as an open and global medium it provides expanded opportunities and connection across borders which fosters collaboration which makes it possible to achieve all the sustainable development goals. 

I was having a conversation with a friend, a very short conversation, I was saying in history, good people with foresight came together to cause progress.  I said that should happen for the Internet.  He said that is what is happening here.  You will find all the good people here and that is what we do. 

I think by preserving the Internet, by preserving the Internet as a global medium by working on core values we expand opportunities and help cause progress.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  I would like to ask Ms Kee from the DC on Gender and Internet Governance, whether she could comment on the challenges of digital transformation and digital divide specifically in relation to gender. 

>>JAC SM KEE:  Thank you very much president we look at gender issues in the context of sustainable development and we would like to make three points in relation to this context. 

First is addressing access is critical.  This has been raised by several different people.  Currently there still exists a large gender digital divide and the proportion of women using the Internet is 12% lower than men globally and this number is much bigger in several countries and region and this gap is not just in terms of access for the connectivity and devices but also the ability to use them freely in a way that realizes a range of their human rights and takes into account existing inequalities for example, expression based on social norms. 

The second point is data really matters.  Right now there's a critical gap in data that reflects the needs of sections of communities.  We barely have desegregated data, which is seeing populations as men and women, never mind gender desegregated data which unpacks a more complex, social, political, economic context that impacts on a range of human rights and all the SDGs and there needs to be a commitment to this. 

This includes the work done on the gender report card of the IGF that has been in place since 2016 and it showed roughly 15% of the workshop organizers filled in the report cards even after seven years after they were introduced. 

The final point is that intersectionality is integral to this question.  Many intersecting factors impact on our ability to realize a range of rights.  This includes factors like disability, location, income, ethnic identities and sexual orientation.  This matters on the way we ask questions, who matters, what are their needs and concerns, who are we building trust around or with whom and the indicators that we're developing research around.  This is to make sure we are not developing policies or programs based on data sets that have systematic bias that results in exacerbating inequalities and goal 10 of the SDGs on reducing inequalities compels that approach. 

>> MODERATOR:  I would like to give the floor to Mr John Carr from the Dynamic Coalition on child protection. 

>> JOHN CARR:  Thank you very much.  It's a great honor and privilege to be here at the IGF again and speaking on behalf of the coalition. 

I represent here ECBA International which is a global NGO based in Bangkok.  It has members, national chapters in around 120 different countries on each of the continents and they're engaged in a very wide range of work, all of which in one way or another relate to the SDGs and we were very active as an organization in lobbying around the SDGs as they were being written and developed through the UN processes and we were very, very pleased in the end to see that I think it's five different SDGs refer to different parts of our agenda.  They are SDGs, 4, 5, 8, 10 and 16. 

I know very often in particularly gatherings of this kind, false dichotomies are very often presented between, if you like, the people who worry about children and what happens to children on the Internet and those who are concerned with Internet liberties, freedom and expanding the Internet.  In my opinion it's a false dichotomy.  If you look at SDG10 which is in some ways the pivotal one for us, is we want every child in the world to be able to access the many, many benefits that the Internet has offered to many ‑ to the adult world. 

Certainly in the United Kingdom and in most of the advanced OECD member States, it's now very difficult to imagine how a child or a young person can get an adequate or decent modern education unless they've got access to the Internet and devices appropriate to providing that access.  And that's why in SDG10 it speaks about an aim reducing inequality within and among countries and that's certainly key for us. 

Just to sort of put some numbers around this, we shouldn't forget, or overlook the fact that one in three of every Internet user in the world is a child.  That's to say is under the age of 18.  This rises to nearly one in two in parts of the developing world and in fact some of the parts of the developing world the proportion of users it's even higher. 

One of the things that we are very keen to see and that we advocate when we come to gatherings of this kind is that that dimension of the Internet and the sheer scale of young people's engagement with it is not overlooked.  It's still, I'm afraid, too often the case that people have discussions about the Internet and Internet policy as if everybody who was using it was an adult and it just isn't the case.  And children are not a small group or marginal concern, they are a gigantic proportion of Internet users around the world. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much for your comment.  May I ask Ms Minda Moreira to state her intervention. 

>> MINDA MOREIRA:  Thank you, very pleased to be here to be representing the Internet Rights and Principles Coalition.  Through its main work, that is the charter of human rights and principles for the Internet, which is published in 2011, has been playing a formative role within the IGF community through leadership and outreach in the human rights space frameworks across all stakeholder groups. 

The charter itself resonates and speaks directly to the UN sustainable development goals and it could focus in particular in certain areas that we are covering here at the IGF such as environmental issues, refugee rights and emerging technologies but we would also like to focus on innovation through work and this was realized in the charter of principles on the Internet on article 14 which is the right to work, the respect for workers' rights and B, Internet at the workplace and, C, work through and on the Internet. 

This also relates to the other article that we have that is article 16, the rights to consumer protection on the Internet.  This is because we believe that when it comes to innovation, human rights laws and sustainable development should be guiding future appropriate technologies. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Minda.  Talk about education. Let me ask Janet Sawaya from the DC on Public Access in Libraries to tell us about it. 

>> JANET SAWAYA:  Thank you very much.  Public access in libraries refers to the possibility of get online for free in a welcoming, noncommercial environment with support and training from qualified staff. 

This allows for meaningful access to information which, in line with the right approach to development promoted by the UN 2030 agenda, empowers people to take better decisions for themselves and their communities.  This in turn promotes economic, educational and societal well‑being. 

For those who remain off‑line, libraries are essential places to get online and access information on almost every topic from health and employment to education and farming techniques.  In countries where people have computers and Internet at home, libraries complement home access by providing access to support and skills and companionship. 

Libraries provide three main advantages that with additional leverage can contribute to the SDGs.  Libraries provide existing infrastructure, connecting libraries is relatively low‑cost, high‑impact means of bringing the benefits of connectivity to communities.  Libraries already exist in many places, are known and trusted spaces in communities and are already included in government information programs and supported by programs such as universal service and budgets dedicated to libraries and digital infrastructure. 

Librarians' existing mission is to help people access the information they need and through broad knowledge of online resources beyond simple searchs, librarians help the public to expand their ability to find relevant information and build their digital skills. 

Librarians provide complement programs and services, adequately supported libraries with strong Internet connections and skills deliver services that contribute to SDG delivery.  For example, public libraries provide digital skills training for marginalised and at‑risk communities.  Supporting SDG4, they support formal education institutions by providing more specific skills in areas such as coding, robotics, web design and supporting basic education. 

Aligned with SDG5, they enable gender equality in the use of technology.  Women often find libraries a safe space where they can learn to get online that other public access spaces don't provide. 

Libraries offer entrepreneurship training and support people in obtaining financial support to start their own businesses.  Aligned with SD G8, they help people develop job relevant skills, prepare CVs and provide the right post. 

Aligned is SDG2 in areas of agriculture, they support farmers, access to market information and agricultural extension services as well as rural development grants. 

Finally, they support improved health and well‑being, they service key partners by sharing information through campaigns and providing a safe place where people with search for health information freely.  This is particularly important for women who may face difficulties accessing the Internet at home or even with owning a device.  Thank you.  

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  Then I would like to ask Mr Gerry Ellis from the dynamic coalition on accessibility and disability to talk about the opportunities, the promise of technology for people with disabilities.  Please. 

>> GERRY ELLIS:  Thank you, Nadia, and thank you to IGF for this opportunity for presenting on behalf of the DCAD. 

There are 1.3 billion people with disabilities globally.  These control $1.3 trillion of annual disposable income.  Add today's 2.2 billion more people who are emotionally attached, like family and friends, and that grows to $8 trillion of disposable income annually. 

According to the UN development program, 80% of people with disabilities live in the developing world.  So the sustainability development goals are obviously highly relevant to people with disabilities. 

The millennium development goals didn't address the question of disability, but the sustainable development goals mentions disability specifically 11 times.  So it is highly relevant. 

Many international frameworks exist in the area of disability and include the area of disability.  Agenda 2030, the 15 disability‑specific elements for inclusive cities in the new urban agenda, emerging, WSIS plus 10 and several more, including the broader framework.  That's only a few, there a more.  There will be a flagship report which was commissioned by the UN General Assembly which will be launched on the UN International Day of Persons with Disabilities on December 3 this year. 

All of these are ground‑breaking United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.  A concept in the UN CRPD, as it's known, is universal design.  It says include persons with disabilities at all stages of development design right through to testing. 

Using universal design avoids the high cost of retrospectively including accessibility.  But far more important than that, is accessible design is good design for everyone, particularly in aging societies. 

Our conclusions, every SDG is highly relevant for the social and economic inclusion of persons with disabilities in all areas of society.  Universal design is a process that can facilitate this so we ask you to consider that very seriously in all aspects of development. 

The United Nations Convention underpins a set of international frameworks for inclusive development so please consider that when you're looking at inclusive development. 

And the last point I will take to you is the best way to ensure that the needs of people with disabilities are included in all your programs and all your activities, ask them.  In line with our motto, nothing about us without us.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Gerry.  How emerging technologies are supporting this development goals and let me offer the floor to Carla Reyes from the DC on blockchain. 

>> CARLA REYES:  The coalition on blockchain technologies view blockchain technologies how people interact with each other, with their environment, with communities and private enterprises and we've explored that potential through any number of work streams that promote specific SGDs.  For example, we've looked into and work to produce a prototype of the way blockchain technology could be used to create distribution, microgrids that incentivises the use and creation of clean energy. 

We've supported research and discussion regarding the conversation of academic diploma and other skill sets ask training.  We've looked at the use of blockchain technologies related to supply chain management and in increasing transparency and understanding of interaction with private enterprises and further, we have an ongoing work stream with regards to corporate accountability and blockchain technology. 

We engage in these work streams, have realized both through the work and then just more broadly through interaction with blockchain communities that one thing that will either promote or hinder the ability of the technology to reach its potential, to reshape human interaction in ways that promote the SDGs or promote any other vision for the technology, frankly, may be, in fact, the governance mechanisms for blockchain technology specifically. 

There is an ongoing debate, for those who aren't aware, for the best governance structures for blockchain protocols and it's our view that working those issues out will either hinder or promote the ability of the technology to fulfill the vision for which it was created.  We are looking into that connection between blockchain governance and promotion of the SDGs and more broadly in our dynamic coalition session tomorrow so we would invite anyone who is interested in participating to do so. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  I would like to continue this conversation about emerging tech in support of common development goals and would like to ask Mr Maarten Botterman to make his comment or statement. 

>> MAARTEN BOTTERMAN:  Thank you.  Digitalization is shaping the society and will increasingly effect anything we do.  It is also a necessity to be able to deal with all we have in a world that's increasingly intensively used by all of us. 

So connected devices will be there to assist us.  They have a lot to offer.  At the same time they also come with dangers.  So what the dynamic coalition is focussing on very much is to seek an ethical way forward as we believe that's the only way to ensure that IoT development can happen in a sustainable way supporting both society and business in the long run. 

The challenge is to determine what ethical means in the global level because that's not my ethics or your ethics, it's different in different parts of the world. 

It will affect the SDGs dramatically.  For instance, starting with SDG2 agriculture.  It's clear how much technology can help to increase the crop turnover and return on crops.  Already technologies are used today in advanced countries but also technologies are fairly easy adaption to improving local crops in terms of irrigation, in terms of crop control, etc. 

Once it's clear how it's to be used, and this is one of the UN main activities at the moment, very much supported by also the Dutch University of Agriculture. 

Same goes for healthy life, particular environmental warning systems and there the clear lesson is if you look for tsunami warning system that was put in place after a disaster.  That was already 10 years ago but not forgotten and a whole network of tsunami buoys are laid out to give a prewarning if such disasters will happen again.  It's just one example because similar things are there for earthquakes and whatever. 

As time fades away and these disasters don't happen how do we ensure the networks continue to be effective? 

I can go a long list of sustainable development goals and say how IoT or Internet of Things would help that but basically it's about managing systems, it's about monitoring systems, about warning systems and in that way it provides also feedback for us to improve processes wherever we talk. 

Now crucial in this is capacity building because they're most effective if they're applied and developed locally, by local people to local problems and a lot of activities happening there, both in terms of training people and in making things available. 

The activities derive from training many young entrepreneurs of how to use material to how to, for instance, bring in place local connectivity when a disaster has struck a country and, for instance, taken out on the telecommunication infrastructure. 

>> MODERATOR:  May I ask you to come to your concluded remark? 

>> MAARTEN BOTTERMAN:  The concluding remark is it's crucial to consider this.  To make sure we do it in an ethical way with international norms to warn against abuse and to put a lot of emphasis on local capacity building. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Maarten.  Let me take from you that local capacity building, that's way easier for big countries because they have economies of scale and so there are some countries, small islands, that have that challenge.  So let me ask Tracy Hackshaw about the Dynamic Coalition on the Small Island Developing States and the challenges you face. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you, the Mediterranean and South China Sea regions, small developing States, which numbered 52 at last count, which comprise approximately 60 million inhabitants, are seeking a greater voice with a higher level of volume in international discourse, especially relating to the Internet governance. 

According to various reports and documents published by the United Nations, the SIDS share several sustainable challenges.  Small populations, under 2,000 in one particular State, limited resources, remoteness, susceptiblity to natural disasters, economic shocks, dependence on international trade and extractive industrials.  Internal economies of many SIDS are characterized by State monopolies or ogolopolies and lead to price distortions. 

Voice and data operators are most likely to be monopolists or ogolopolists with low‑levels of customer service, aging infrastructure, a lack of universal accessibility but there are scenarios playing out of this advantage of one or more sectors of population, including but not limited to the rural, women, youth, poor, elderly and persons with disabilities. 

Further, faced on a daily basis with severe environmental energy and natural resource management challenges, the SIDS are hard‑pressed to take full advantage of opportunities made available through emerging technologies and IC S‑Type services given the tremendous amount of consumption of energy and natural resources that facilities of this nature demand. 

In the Pacific Islands, there's a recognition by the youth of the Pacific, with those from Asia, of the wide gap of understanding of Internet governance.  What was acknowledged was a wide disparity created by the lack of access by Pacific youth to the Internet, mainly due to affordability issues.  Bridging the divide, in terms of accessibility of online services and the need to ensure that digital literacy training includes people with disabilities. 

In order to deal with affordability issues, there's leaders from key organizations to encourage governments in the Pacific, perhaps at the Pacific Island Forums to focus on some of the key recommendations made by the Broadband Commission in its latest review, which includes national leadership and the development of legislation relating to the effects of digitalization, incentizing access. 

>> MODERATOR:  Can you come to your concluding remark? 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Sure.  In the Caribbean was he deemed appropriate in managing future Internet strategies that more Pacific countries should establish regional structures together to increase the public in collaboration.  Small States should enter into collaboration to make sure the SDGs are met one by one.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  I would like to invite Su Sonia Herring from the Youth Coalition on Internet Governance to talk about skilling and leadership development. 

>> SU SONIA HERRING:  Thank you, Nadia.  The Youth Coalition on Internet Governance.  The community is diverse and exists from stakeholders in a variety of different expert fields which cover a variety of different SDG goals.  However, this year YCIG members actively engaged with peer‑to‑peer learning in the domains of media, digital and cyber security literacy, where young people engage in projects and give back to the communities from which they are from. 

This type of engagement increases promotion of the Internet governance field and includes the learning of vocational and technical skills that accommodate the new job market.  So SDG4.4 and SDG8.6. 

This is notable in events such as the youth school where participants become volunteers of the community and another great example from the African region is the ‑ it's African but also international ‑ digital grass roots which is a youth capacity building program by youth for youth.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  Then I would leave to Diego to take on the next part of our session. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you so much.  I like to ask the panelists if you have any questions, remarks or reactions to what you have heard from the dynamic coalitions, anyone?  Go ahead, Bishakha. 

>> BISHAKHA DHATTA:  I think apart from everything, what stays with me is a comment made by the speaker of the Dynamic Coalition on Gender and Internet Governance about the inadequate reporting on gender at the Internet Governance Forum. 

One of the things that was institutionalized a few years ago at the IGF was that in the workshop reports that we fill in at each IGF, there must be sort of dissegregated data reporting on how many men and women are present at each session, moderators, how many times gender is mentioned and this was a very proactive way of actually trying to measure the role of gender in Internet governance and to see whether people of different genders were actually being represented in shaping, influencing and governing the Internet. 

I think it is a matter of concern, and something that I hope we will take seriously, that not even 50% of people who are filling these reports are actually filling the gender part and to me that speaks of not enough sort of seriousness being given to a topic that we know is crucial to building a safe, open and free Internet and I think related to this, just one very brief point. 

I think we have to think about the fact that in the world today there are many genders, including transgender people, etc.  We very rarely see them in the Internet Governance Forum and at the same time we know they are huge users of the Internet, particularly when they face stigma and discrimination offline but online becomes a safe space.  I do believe that as part of our commitment to gender equality, and SDG5, we have to really think about including all genders and marginalised genders in this conversation. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you.  Jackson. 

>> JACKSON CHEBOI:  Thank you.  Mine is on the concern in regard to connected items or Internet of Things.  As much as we would wish to have all those items in Internet, for a small gain, are we not converting to an IoT, that's Internet of Threats because of the standard which those items are being plugged to the net without much security concerns or considerations, sorry.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you.  Andres ‑ Celine.  Go ahead. 

>> CELINE SAADA‑BENABEN:  What stayed with me clearly is the diversity of the challenges that were raised today.  Very diverse and probably the common point that I'm taking away is the need to bridge some of the gaps that I've heard in gender, in countries and the need to probably accompany that with education across the board and education on some of the things that we consider as basic.  So clearly access in all its dimensions is what stays with me.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you, Celine.  Andres. 

>> ANDRES SASTRE:  Just a minor comment.  Regarding Latin America, for example, the problem is not a lack of investment in human capital, there is investment but the problem is the lack of coordination between the different existing projects.  There's several projects that are not ‑ that do not cooperate with each other and therefore they don't have the results that they aim at. 

If there was coordination at a higher level, that would make these projects more effective.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  We have a few minutes before we end so, Nadia, would you like to lead perhaps the discussion with the audience? 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  So we have now opened the floor to the audience to make your own comments, your own remarks.  We have our panelists here available but also the Dynamic Coalitions are available to answer any of your questions or concerns.  I would like to look at our online moderator whether there are any questions or comments from online.  If you're watching us from online please submit something.  We're more than happy to take your questions. 

Are there any comments or questions from the audience that would like to be raised?  So while people are still thinking I would like to give Maarten Botterman still the opportunity to speak. 

>> MAARTEN BOTTERMAN:  Thank you.  It's directly responding to Jackson's point.  The Internet of Threats, it's true that every technology comes with threats as well as opportunities and it's crucial that we use those well. 

I think we're more aware of how to do that than we used to be in the past and with those capacity building, it's not only about how to connect things and make things talk with each other, but it's also how to govern these things and how to deal with that. 

So yes, it's an important point and we shouldn't just blindly implement but it shouldn't stop us from grabbing the benefits that it can bring.  So let's do it but let's do it carefully. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much for your comment.  Are there any other questions in the room which would like to be addressed or any comments?  Everybody's still in a post‑lunch kind of getting together again.  Sorry, yes, please.  I'm sorry, I'm a little confused because people are pointing at each other. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Sorry, I thought someone else had put their hand up first so I was going to sort of, yeah.  Nigel Hickson, ICANN.  Thank you for the presentations, it's been incredibly interesting to listen to everyone. 

I just wondered whether the panel, having listened to the various contributions from the Dynamic Coalitions, might be able to sort of comment on how some of the common synergies would be taken forward in the work of the IGF as we go forward in terms of the sustainability agenda?  Thank you very much. 

>> MODERATOR:  Was there another question in the room?  Sorry, thank you.  Also take your question. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Good afternoon.  Mary Anne Franklin, Internet Rights and Principles Coalition.  I would like to follow up on Nigel's comment and ask in addition to responding to Nigel's question, if any member of the panel and any DC representative here could succinctly say how do their priorities relate to sustainability in an environmental sense but also social and cultural ways?  Real sustainability, not symbolic sustainability.  I would like to issue that challenge, if I may.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  Is there anyone on the panel who would like to make the first comments or remarks regarding these two questions? 

>> CELINE SAADA‑BENABEN:  I can start if you want.  On the question of synergies, coming from the background and the company I work with, I think where I see synergies is around education and the ability to progressively get people onto the web and to ‑ I mean we do have to build education and I guess we are a bit further downstream but this is one area where I see synergies. 

The other area where I see synergies, although it's probably a bit more indirect, is through the ability of ‑ well, I guess in the end, on our platform at least, your gender, whatever it is, your country, whatever it is, your education level, whatever it is, is, to a degree, well, not to a degree, it doesn't matter.  So it's one of the areas where you can actually be free with obviously some restriction. 

But this is really where I see the true connecting points. 

>> MODERATOR:  Please.  Thank you. 

>>  I'm trying to figure out how to respond without being tokenistic to your question about sustainability.  I think it's not that there's any new formula, to be honest, but I think we have to really deeply take on board some of the things which we have known for the last 10 years, right, about sort of social markers, cultural markers and I think for me the myth of the neutral user is something that really has to vanish.  I think we really have to embrace the fact that users are embodied human beings who come with very different experiences and that we cannot have online sort of domain which does not account for this kind of diversity, very fundamentally in design. 

I think there are also certain issues like, for instance, some of the conversations around algorithms, etc, and how that will affect our rights, artificial intelligence.  I think we really have to generate the knowledge.  I think we have to have a deep commitment to human rights and say this is the world we're going to live in going forward and we're not going to give up on certain basics. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  I'm looking at the Dynamic Coalitions and seeing whether or not there are any comments or remarks that they would like to add to this.  Gerry Ellis. 

>> GERRY ELLIS:  Thank you.  I would say that it's OK to be different because everybody's different and there is a danger that we do work in silos in different areas of accessibility and I don't mean for disabilities, but in gender and in religion and in various sort of things.  We tend to say well here's one group that has a certain set of needs, here's another group that is a different set of needs.  We need to find a way of working together. 

There will always be differences, there will always be areas where people have special needs but in most cases they're the same needs.  So we can choose the ones that are the same, work together on those and let people be different in different ways in the ones that are different. 

What that will lead to is better international harmonization standards and ways of developing.  For instance, if you want to buy a pint of milk from your local supermarket, it doesn't matter if you're disabled or old or young, your needs are the same.  Whereas in educational needs your needs might be different.  Let's find what's in common, work on those and let the differences take care of themselves.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  Any other of the Dynamic Coalitions like to make a comment on the two questions that were raised?  Not at this time.  Are there any questions from the audience or online?  Thank you very much, please. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi.  I'm a MAG member and a participant of several coalitions, including the gender and the CAD and the Internet Rights and Principles.  I would like to say first of all that the nature of the Dynamic Coalitions, the name is not gratuitous.  It is about a group that moves towards change and what we've seen this year in the IGF is the Dynamic Coalitions becoming even more active on change and I really like what Gerry Ellis just said, that we should focus on what is working and let what is going on that isn't working to be sorted out because we need to be resilient and we need to move forward. 

First of all, it has been a great year for the DCs.  Congratulations on your work.  I would just wonder, going ahead there was a big point at the beginning of the year that the MAG asked itself is there an end to this change?  Is there a day that a Dynamic Coalition can say my work here is done?  Or what do we do to keep this work alive?  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  That's a very interesting question and we would like to open that up to the Dynamic Coalitions.  Would you like to are he ply to this question?  I feel kind of torn because my Dynamic Coalition is here, I represent the Youth Coalition on Internet Governance.  From DC Core Values. 

>>  What we do to keep this work alive in the name itself universally that it's dynamic, it's ongoing.  What is important is that we don't move from one IGF to another but keep working all year around on the common issues.  What is common in my opinion is the Internet.  So thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Wonderful.  Thank you very much, perhaps Carla Reyes. 

>> CARLA REYES:  I think technology changes and the nature of the Internet changes and in response our work changes.  To the extent that the technology and the issues surrounding the technology continue to change, we will continue to be relevant and I think we can expect that to be ongoing sort of indefinitely, frankly. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  Mr Botterman. 

>> MAARTEN BOTTERMAN:  What we've found is that we had very good discussions here over the years at IGF to develop thoughts and a paper that is very solid, yet it's paid for by the IGF.  So how do we get this to act? 

Very happy to say we found big organizations available to deepen the work that we've been doing, in particular on two aspects.  One is security.  Jackson made the right point.  Security is a prerequisite.  We need to get it right.  So information society is going to help us to get a good oversight paper that can guide all kind of work throughout the world on this. 

The other part is the ethical dimension.  Ethical is crucial yet it means so much different things to different people and a lot of work has been done both by the World Economic Forum but also by UNESCO, by countries, by industry, by NGOs. 

The other thing that has been agreed to is to help develop an overview paper on what we really need to talk about and we focus on the aspects of IoT implementation.  These are crucial elements.  This is how you take it out both by diving in on the elements that are important but also by involving organizations that have an interest and a clear role in getting it out there. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much.  Mr Hackshaw. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you.  So I think we are a new Dynamic Coalition, we just started this year and I'm impressed with the visibility that the DCs have got in the IGF.  I think that could be improved further and to do that I think some of the work that's happening here, and I don't want to sound controversial, also happens at other UN forums such as the ITU and other agencies. 

There seems to be an opportunity here to sort of have the work, certainly some collaborative structures in place so that the work that's happening here can be made visible to the other work that's going on in other agencies and that way sustainability and future funding and all those things can happen on its own.  Thank you. 

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you very much for your comments.  As we come to the end of the question and answer session, I would like to invite Diego to make the summary remarks for our session. 

>> MODERATOR:  What a difficult task.  We've talked about so many diverse topics here but the first thing that really is my takeaway that I'm very happy to see that IGF is working on such a number of important issues.  Encourage people to join the Dynamic Coalitions to deepen the discussion and as many people are saying here, we have to see what is next.  What does the IGF have to do next?  We have to narrow down those discussions into perhaps alternatives of different alternatives of policies to make. 

But the second takeaway is what Jackson started his talk about which was this is not about technology.  If we want to have inclusive and prosperous digital transformation, it's about people, not about technology.  They all talk about people and especially education. 

Jackson talked about leaders.  We talk about ‑ Bishakha talked about women, Andres talked about young people, Celine talked about SMEs that are run by people.  So the main challenge is how we prepare people for this new economy. 

That's the main challenge and when we see everybody is really working hard on the transformation of different industries, but very few people are talking about the data transformation of higher education, for example.  So people are talking about, of course, reskilling people but we have to really work hard on how to really prepare our people for that future. 

That's the main issue because the main gap today is that one.  The infrastructure gap is closing very fast.  Of course we still have to work hard on that but the main issue is how we prepare people to be good users and then how we prepare them to be creators, innovators with the right skills to do that. 

So I think we have quite interesting challenges in front of us and the main challenge is to make sure that this new world is going to be for the well‑being of everybody. 

Thanks for being here in this panel.  Thanks a lot. 

(Applause)

>> MODERATOR:  Thank you all very, very much.  I would like to thank our panelists.  I would also like to thank all the Dynamic Coalitions who were able to present their work.  I would also like to thank the online moderator and of course all the translators and captioners that are here today to be able to ensure that we have this opportunity.  Thank you very much to the MAG who helped organize this session and I hope you have a lovely day.  Of course the DC coordination group. 

Thank you all very much for coming here and we hope to see you for the rest of the IGF. 

 

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