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IGF 2018 - Day 2 - Salle II - NRI Coordination Session

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 

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>> ANJA GENGO:  Hi again and thank you for being this flexible.  We actually rushed on the main session to ‑‑

   >> AUDIENCE:  We can barely hear you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much for joining.  Just now for the record, this is the NRI coordination session, third in the row.  We started this practice three years ago actually in the Mexico IGF and the purpose of this coordination session is for all NRIs to meet face to face and to meet with the representatives from UNDESA and with the representatives of the IGF Secretariat with the Chair of the MAG and, of course, with the interesting members of the MAG and the wider IGF community, especially the support organizations to the NRIs.  This year is no exception.  I am happy that we have a number of NRIs here and a number of NRIs are present online that could not travel to Paris.  And also very happy to have I think a new face to us, Mr. Stefan Schweinfest.  He is going to represent the UNDESA.  I am going to leave the introduction to you.  I will just briefly go through it to remind that we are focused on increasing the IGF through the NRIs and NRIs through the IGF.  How can ‑‑ specifically how can the IGF help the NRIs advancing the legitimacy of the NRIs, securing cooperation between IGF and NRIs especially through the main session that we organized for the IGF annual meeting collaborative sessions, the NRIs participation in the IGF's Intersessional work and NRI's contributions to program planning of IGF.  We will also discuss the idea of creating an online observatory for all NRIs. 

Move to how can the NRIs help the NRIs secure funding for the NRIs.  And we will briefly touch upon the potential engagement of the NRIs with this newly established High Level Panel on digital cooperation by the Secretary‑General.  Since some of us have flights to catch so I will maybe give the floor to Stefan to open this discussion.  And we will then move on. 

   >> STEFAN SCHWEINFEST:  Thank you very much for being here.  And I must confess this is the last thing I am doing here because I'm one of those persons that needs to move to the airport.  But this was important to me.  Because it is really a particular pleasure.  I am in DESA, which is the director of the statistics division.  Public administration development management is now called public institution NRI Government, digital Government, sorry.  We ‑‑ it is currently without a director.  Mr. Leo, my boss, said this gentleman does not have enough work to do with his statistics division.  He can help us out with that.  I am only here temporarily.  And I am discovering a whole new world and people like Lynn who I met professionally over the last couple of months.  I have discovered this whole universe and I find it extraordinarily exciting and very much related to where I am originally coming from.  Data and statistics have a lot to do.  We are having discussions like privacy discussion.  How do we use the Internet and how we manage data.  When go back to my original corner, I will go there enriched.  So when I learned about the IGF, I must confess, I mean this is the thing at the United Nations when you go in to a new era ‑‑ area, then you have to learn all the acronyms.  So I was ‑‑ and somebody came and said you have to talk to the NRIs.  Who are they?  I had to learn my lesson, what NRIs stands for.  And I think this is when I really discovered the heart and essence of the IGF process. 

When I learned about the IGF I said it is a global process.  This is all very, very important, but how is it anchored and connection to real life and people on the ground.  And this was the answer.  The NRIs are the answer.  They are really playing this critical role of connecting an a priori global process to the local perspective before.  The Secretary‑General has some concerns on his mind.  And he comes from the Sustainable Development Goals background.  And I think that puts all of us in the UN in New York in a spirit of seeking the connection to the individual because we are really in for the individuals and how can we make the Internet useful for each and everyone on this planet and first and foremost to those who don't have access to it right now at this point in time. 

So I think the NRIs are really playing as I now understand a vital role.  And they keep the parts of the IGF going.  Not only one big event this year in Geneva and next year in Paris and next year in Berlin.  Last week somebody said oh, I saw you in Khartoum.  I said, excuse me, I have never been to Sudan.  On the big screen.  Oh, I did.  I was actually welcome at the African IGF.  And it was a pleasure to be there.  It was my first exposure of what the 111 officially organized and recognized NRIs are doing. 

I'm interested to hear more of your work.  I know you are working in exactly the same DNA matter as the global with all the key words.  Participatory, open and inclusive, noncommercial, these are all key words that guide everyone's work.  So we do have issues to discuss here.  And I saw that from your agenda, what is exactly your status, how can we help you to be even more effective and visible and recognized and always the perennial problem of funding which we can discuss here which is discussed at the global level. 

We had a meeting with donors this morning of how we get the IGF and the global Secretariat going.  We have to have a common discussion of how can we support all of the important activities of the IGF including the NRIs from the very bottom‑up to the global level in either Geneva or New York. 

So again it is a pleasure for me to talk to you and to get to know and to listen a bit to your concerns.  And if you have any questions, we as the global Secretariat in New York together with our IGF Secretariat in Geneva, we are committed to supporting your work all around the world.  Thank you very much. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Before we open directly the floor for questions can I just quickly ask Lynn as the Chair of the MAG to just say a couple of welcoming words for the beginning? 

   >> LYNN ST. AMOUR:  Thank you.  I'm glad to be here again with everyone.  And, you know, I'm always so happy to see certainly the growth in the NRIs, both the sheer number of them and also the activities.  I think we continue to go from strength to strength.  I was really pleased this year in particular to see the main session which was co‑organized and also the five collaborative sessions that the NRIs have here.  I think one of the things we really are anxious to understand is how do we just continue improving.  I always say so much of what we are doing in the Internet space and in the Internet Governance space is all about evolution and improvement.  We are some of the earlier movers, if you will, in a lot of these activities.  So really anxious as the kind of representative of the MAG here on this panel, there are some MAG members in the room as well.  Really understand what we can do to increase the collaboration. 

I was in a session this morning and somebody said when you speak about cooperation it tends to seem hierarchical.  And when you speak about collaboration it is a network distributed effect.  And I think that's what we are and how we actually relate across all of the activities within the IGF ecosystem. 

So really just interested to hear what we can do to deepen the relationship, where you think there is areas of improvement, what we can do to help and certainly also interested in your experiences of the collaborative session and the main session here because, of course, what we do try and do, of course, is continue to trying to improve those sessions as well. 
    But given we have instructed every one of the organizers of these sessions to try and spend at least 50% of the time in exchanges as opposed to panelists speaking, I am actually going to stop with a set of brief words of welcome and certainly great appreciation for all you do back in your own nations and regions, but all you contribute here, the IGF would not be nearly as rich, nearly as rich without all the contributions of the NRIs.  So I look forward to your comments here or, you know, of course, offline as well. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much, Lynn, for your very kind words.  And finally I am going to ask Chengetai as head of the IGF Secretariat to provide a couple of welcoming remarks and then we will continue.

   >> CHENGETAI MASANGO:  Thank you very much.  I will be very quick.  I will not repeat what Stefan and Lynn have said.  But I totally agree with them and they totally encapsulate my feelings as well.  Thank you very much.  We do appreciate all your work.  And over the last two years we have increased our collaboration.  And it was in a nonhierarchical manner.  And the flow is back and forth.  It is not just topdown.  It is from you to us and back again.  And we will continue to support you and, of course, as you support us, and we do try and participate in some manner.  If you can't go there physically, last year we only managed to go to the Afghanistan IGF and the Asia‑Pacific IGF and next year we will try and visit some IGFs.  Thank you very much.  If you have any idea, please come to us and ‑‑ of course, you have got Anja who is doing very great work coordinating all of or collaborating with all of you, sorry.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much, Chengetai.  Now we can formally move in to the agenda that you all helped to develop.  And maybe we will ask you to raise your hand on the very first agenda item is how can the IGF help the NRIs.  Very broad question, but I think we will manage to be very specific on this question.  Yes.  You would like to speak? 

   >> Thank you for the opportunity.  And let me introduce my name.  My name is Frederick.  And I am here with Mr. Donor.  I am representing the youth Indonesian IGF.  We would like to sort of report on the organizing of our national dialogue Indonesian Internet Governance Forum.  With the Internet that can be trusted.  So we tried to take a correlation between the current IGF global team in which during the discussion of our national dialogue we happened to have a lot of discussion on infrastructure.  We were able to organize a youth Forum as well in our national dialogue.  The issue that happens then in the national dialogue is how we can follow up this issue to the level of policy makers.  We understand that the internet issue is not only our national issue.  It is not only a domestic issue.  But it is an issue that related to a cross‑border situation.  And I think what we can say here is that we still need cooperation and, of course, knowledge sharing from the jurisdiction, from other countries on how the ‑‑ on how their approach and measures in anticipating both could impact the internet.  That would be it for now. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much.  I am going to ask the NRI colleagues to be maybe specific on this question as much as it is possible.  If you could just raise your hand, unmute yourself, it is not a big group.  Yes.  Serena. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  So Serena speaking on behalf of the Southeast Internet Governance.  I think we said two years ago at the same coordination meeting what we would like to reiterate and it is not necessarily about the IGF Secretariat but the support from UN as such.  We would very much welcome anything you can do to help us in our region, reaching out to Governments.  We have had this challenge at least in our first three years.  When you talk to a government and you send a letter, they don't just look at you.  If there is a second letter coming from UNDESA or someone else, I am pretty sure that would make a difference.  So any support in that direction would be very much welcome.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Marilyn. 

   >> MARILYN CADE:  My comment I think is a follow‑on to the reference that was made.  What I see as the greatest challenges across most of the NRIs that I am familiar with is getting the ‑‑ getting the access to multiple Government agency representatives who participate on a consistent basis.  So it is not only the NRI is not viewed as the purview of only the Ministry of Communications, but it is understood and supported that multiple ministries at the agency level such as health, education, agriculture, depending on the country, and I will just say I'm not speaking for any of the African countries or the Caribbean, but my observation is in certain countries the Ministry of Tourism is a major potential partner because of the introduction of ICTs and the creation of jobs varies and the opportunity varies from country to country.  In ‑‑ but I think the second significant challenge is reaching the business representatives and that is true in every country that I'm familiar with.  And it is true in the United States as well.  We have a core at IGF USA.  I have ‑‑ I work for a major corporation.  I have extensive contacts in to the major corporations in the tech sector.  But what we don't have is participation and engagement from the financial sector, manufacturing and health sector.  And what the UN has in a puppet role is the opportunity to say to the CEOs and executives who participate in the Broadband Commission you should be aware of telling your regional VP team to get engaged at the national and regional level.  Just those messages that are coming from the UN that are encouraging this would be extremely effective and also very effective at the national level where if there were a general invitation that could be incorporated in to the invitation from the steering group it would be likely to get more attention. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Yes, please. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Well, I don't know if I am answering your question, but I would like to introduce ourselves.  We represent youth IGF movement.  We are active in 37 countries.  And we are here now from five countries.  Maria from Ukraine and Fernando from Portugal and me from Lebanon and Junior from Haiti, but it is now on the booth.  Well, we would like to say that we want to be more involved in your activities at the national level.  So we need more support from the national IGF.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much.  Any other questions?  Yes.  Please. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Hi.  I'm Costi from ‑‑ I'm sorry for my bad English.  If I understand the question, is how global IGF can help the national/regional IGF.  If I get our experience we need, before we became NGO system there is ‑‑ difficult to talk about mediocre process of Government.  Why the person who has statute like NGO or private sector or Government, came and talk about mobilization.  Government came and sit at table with other stakeholders and talk about something who can become process to get information.  Right?  Process to have knowledge, but also process to have discussion like our national ccTLDs are not working.  When we talk about those special issues, it is important to have a statute before talk to government.  We will make ‑‑ we transform our national IGF to NGO system.  We have opportunity now to talk directly to Government, directly to other NGOs and directly to private sectors.  We don't know if it is a level to move from second space to NGO and talk about ‑‑ to all of them on the same place.  Is it level?  Is it normal?  Is it some process that we can share anywhere?  We don't know.  But we make it. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you, Costi.  Any other inputs?  Yes, please. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  I would like to add a few points from Michelle which is my colleague from Lebanon.  We are aware that the UN IGF has already a couple of youth initiatives that has been listed as well in the website which is where we are coming from the youth IGF movement under the DTAZ together against cybercrime.  Also in the same we do ‑‑ we are aware that each of the national IGFs itself, there is a couple of youth that has been recognized.  I would like to raise a question, how can we collaborate together.  And then as a national IGF in a country in a regional IGF how the youth IGF under the national and youth IGF movement can synergize and collaborate in terms of spreading awareness for Internet Governance to the young people.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Yes, Francesco.

   >> FRANCESCO PIRRO:  Hi.  My name is Francesco.  This year the Italian digital agency promoted the Italian IGF.  And I noticed we have many difficulties to involve high level people in our initiative.  And I think that it is for different reasons.  The first that IGF treats a lot of multi‑disciplinary sector and the ‑‑ and every sector in a very deep way.  And then the difficulties of our politicians to be involved in it.  And the second that is IGF is once a time for a year, not a structural event for all the year, but one day for one year.  And the third, the last but not least that in my opinion it would be necessary to have outcomes from global IGF that became a recommendation, a guideline in order to transform IDS.  Many good ideas in actions.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Liana and then Sandra.

   >> LIANA GALYSTAN:  Thank you very much.  Liana from the Armenian IGF.  I would like to emphasize the role of a focal point of NRIs, that she is doing tremendous work throughout the year.  It is not preparation for this annual meeting with the whole community on a bottom‑up way but the intersectional activities.  The support of network and coordination.  It would be great that we have a sustainability of that role and importance of that coordination that she is doing.  We appreciate it a lot with the NRIs and network.  And we would like that to be continued in a very sustainable way.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Sandra.

   >> SANDRA HOFERICHTER:  Sandra Hoferichter.  After a long time of demands we got this focal point at the IGF secretary.  Otherwise this network would not come to result.  On the other hand, you were asking what the IGF Secretariat could do for the NRIs.  I think it is not a one‑way road.  I think we have to think in both directions because there is a lot that the NRIs can do for the sustainability of the IGF.  And I have two examples that I learned during this week that might be really a great opportunity for the NRIs to contribute to the IGF and have strength in it.  The first is that we should actually ‑‑ we have some good examples on the national level where a discussion from a ‑‑ so‑called talk shop really led to a concrete action or to a concrete result.  And I think we have to promote that these examples exist.  Many times the IGF is called as irrelevant and all these things.  I think that one is fair and also not right.  There are so many good examples on a national or regional or global level.  Concrete action was the result of a discussion that started at an IGF.  And I think we have to make that visible and we have to let everyone know about us. 
    And one really good opportunity to do this is via the open call from the UN panel on the digital cooperation.  The highest UN level should know about how the IGF should be the IGF movement and the NRIs, how we can really make a difference.  I think we have to voice or we have to make that vocal. 

And then secondly, this was also an idea I found out, the UN panel will submit a first draft the end of April beginning of May.  That's the plan.  Why not invite those people then to the national IGFs, to the regional IGFs to explain the report, to discuss it, and then maybe after one year to revisit what are the recommendations.  Have they been brought forward.  What happened to these recommendations.  This panel can gain some great input from the nationals and from the regions and also the global IGF.  And this is not a process that is limited to one year.  We can revisit these recommendations even after three or five years.  And really see what kind of results came up out of this recommendation. 

And I think if we do this, we strengthen us vice versa.  It is not a one‑way road.  We are strengthening the global IGF or the IGF movement as such and, of course, this will positively fall back also to the visibility and recognition of the national NRIs.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  I would maybe take one more question from the Ukrainian IGF and then maybe take a break just to summarize and respond as much as we can and then continue. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  Responding to the question how the Secretariat could help local IGFs, in Ukraine we have legislation which threatens Internet freedom.  And we try to engage in to our local IGF members of Parliament who are responsible for creating quite dangerous legislation.  Maybe if we could invite members of Parliament from the countries, from different countries with the same context, and you could help with it, we could probably facilitate this meeting and bring this like ‑‑ to make the discussion between different countries because sometimes members of Parliament feel that we don't want to go in to the events that are organized by the tech community and Civil Society Organizations.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  I do see we have three more hands.  If you can be brief.  We'll stop there temporarily. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  I'm from the Gambia IGF.  We are hosting the West African IGF next year.  And we are really hoping that we will get the full support from the IGF global and all the resources.  So the other issue that I wanted to talk about is the position on the controlling of the ccTLDs that Gambia has issues with.  Currently it is being controlled by a private person from Germany, another country and this has been an ongoing issue.  The Government and all stakeholders of IGF have been trying to receive it and take ownership of it but it has been an issue.  So I just wanted to mention on how we can ‑‑ how in order to ‑‑ can help us to retrieve it and make it Gambian, Gambian ownership.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you.  Paul and Mary. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Paul from the Namibia IGF.  From my perspective the NRIs, they have a grassroots view.  It is the bottom‑up approach.  Whereas the global IGF and the IGF Secretariat has a top‑level view.  So my suggestion here is that the Secretariat can help identify the common themes or issues that are being deliberated at the NRI level and help cross‑fertilize between the different NRIs.  We have common themes. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you, Paul.  Mary. 

   >> MARY UDUMA:  Thank you.  Thank you, Anja.  I want to echo what Liana and Sandra has said about the focal point.  I am speaking also on behalf of the Colombian IGF.  I think NRI is another ‑‑ they sent a note to me that I should also raise that issue, that the IGF should note one of the good work that has been aimed and wanted, sustained the work, the focal point.  It has really organized the network properly.  And from Nigerian IGF and African IGF the truth at the West African level the heads of Government through the echoers has good knowledge of the West Africa IGF.  Just like the ‑‑ from the lady from Zambia has said.  The West African IGF is more or less accepted by the Governments in West Africa.  So they are willing to host each of them.  And they have a relationship with the echoer's level.  We use that as a model having the regional economic blocks get involved and get connected and engaged.  And when we started Nigeria IGF it was a question of who sent you.  Who are you.  Where are you coming from.  And how can you use that, where is the government backing.  Which Government is backing you. 

So we are saying if there is anything that the IGF could do, and the way of the normal UN process, through informing countries about the initiatives so that the Governments would also support it, that's what we want to see IGF do for us.  And in return we should give feedback to the IGF Secretariat.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much for your comments.  I see Wisdom's hand, but I would leave it until after we respond to these first set of questions.  Stefan has to leave.  Maybe we will start with the questions that are relevant for Stefan, especially when it comes to engagement that the Governments asked for, and maybe certification.  Can we touch about that? 

   >> STEFAN SCHWEINFEST:  Yes.  Thank you very much.  I am a statistician.  I count.  There were 13 interventions.  I was quite impressed.  There were a couple of themes that were very much in common which I think is a good thing.  And I was also impressed by the sense of community they convey because this ‑‑ it really gives the feeling that we are all in the same boat together working at different levels, working at different places on this planet but I think there is a common vision and that unites us.  That was very gratifying.  To sense this up here I have five points that I would like to pick up.  How can we help to reach out to policy levels to Government?  Marilyn reminded it should not be only one person in the Government or one institution because the Government is broad.  The different layers of Government and the SDG area where I am coming from, we are preaching all the time and having an integrated approach to Government anyway which we do as a division. 

How can we help?  This is a very current theme.  Somebody mentioned not only Government business high level leaders.  So what can we do?  The Secretariat certainly should help in that.  I mean if there are letters that we can write and help to establish I think a national institution or if there is a particular event that you are planning and you are trying to reach out to certain Government institutions or partners, businesses, whoever they be, multistakeholders, we can certainly put the power of our signature and the United Nations name behind it because you are a part of this large process. 

So I would be happy to explore specific proposals and with the Secretariat.  I am now with the Secretariat.  I am also open to hear what kind of general processes there may be existing to give you more weight.  I am wondering how this works.  Some of you you do have MAG members in your own countries.  They would be a good point to go to where we can establish this.  I hear a lot about regional cooperation.  Also it may rework ‑‑ I can feel already you are working together.  The last speaker was evoking ECOWAS and some regional institutions where it may be easier to anchor you.  I am willing to help so you can do your work. 

How can you help each other?  I think there are a lot of good experiences that many of you have in one country or another country or one region or another region, and somebody mentioned that even the challenge of how to bring these three dimensions together national, regional and youth, three different perspectives.  We also need to keep together in this room.  So I think I'm sure there is perhaps our website.  So it is already being done, if good practices can be documented and something really worked in one country and what kind of communication networks do exist already, but I am sure there is more that can be done than leads me to one particular point.  You are recognizing the importance of the focal point and Anja in particular.  So I am committed to maintain that.  Because I know every process in the world is depending on good Secretariat support.  This is being discussed at the highest level. 

We are saying that the IGF can only function if we have a good Secretariat and Secretariat support.  That are very important.  I heard one thing, I am not sure if I heard it correctly, how the global process can help the region and national processes.  The more focused and specific the outcomes of the global process are the more the national/regional can become an implementing arm and executing arm.  We are pulling in the same direction because as you know there are some innovation and reform processes being discussed in the market to come up with very specific concrete outcomes.  If that's happening that makes your life easier. 

Two more points, one was what I heard was the connection with the High Level Panel.  That's also part of your discussion.  And it was a EuroDIG representative that says not only look at this one way but the other direction is important and I very much like that.  Some of you have more concrete examples of how this works than you may at a very abstract level and the global level.  And I think here are concrete opportunities.  And I would encourage each and every body of you to look out. 

There is a deadline to make inputs until the 30th of November for the High Level Panel discussion.  And I think one of the things we are all concerned about is this High Level Panel with all good intentions and creativity does not come out with something differently.  How do we bring that back?  But in order to make that connection, also in the people who are sitting on that High Level Panel, here is a mechanism that we can use.  They need to know about that.  Pick up ‑‑ I was about to say pick up the pen, but that identifies me as an old man.  Take your keyboard and write to these people that you are in a perfectly legitimate space to do that and put your concerns and ideas in to this process. 

So the last point I mean I think there was a ‑‑ was coming from the Ukraine.  The sense that you might be fighting alone, the regional dimension comes in.  One country has to deal with a particular form of adversity and the people from that country left alone are not in a good position to help themselves, but this is precisely where the United Nations and regional solidarity can come in.  And I think those are the moments where I think I can totally understand how for a national institution or a national organization it is very difficult to intervene, but this is precisely where you can bring in the international and regional voice.  And you will get the intention of the politicians.  So don't fight alone in your countries.  Put your ‑‑ if you bring several countries together I think that gets already immediately a lot more attention from policymakers than if you come with your own singular voice.  These are a few perspectives.  I am happy to discuss this further with some of you and with the experts that are here sitting on the panel. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much for these responses.  I think there were a couple of questions that touched upon the program of the IGF and the NRI's participation.  So maybe Lynn could comment on that and then Chengetai. 

   >> LYNN ST. AMOUR:  Very happy to do that.  I would like to do that.  There are some small practical things that would help fairly significantly.  And one thing that occurred to me for the first time DESA gave MAG members certificates of being a MAG member, a certificate of recognition.  Maybe there is an opportunity to build on something similar and either do something similar that recognizes an NRI or recognizes your annual meeting that we could do and perhaps even do it electronically, but something that happens with the point that was made earlier.  I am sure there are a lot more creative ideas out there.  Send them back.  DESA has shown recently that they are willing to send letters to help with the recognition and that does provide some additional level of legitimacy stature. 

We have a very strong Secretariat.  We have too small of a Secretariat.  We need more resources.  To get those resources we need more donors.  In the last few weeks we created a card which you probably can't see it here, it says the Internet Governance Forum needs you and there is some information on the back.  You can tailor it to the NRI needs.  You can do that to support some fundraising efforts.  We have also in that Working Group created ‑‑ we haven't quite published it yet, just too close to this IGF to actually do sensibly, but sort of a high level template for fundraising.  We are probably going to do two letters.  One is a one‑page high level.  Another one we will leave space to tailor for specific activities.  And again we were thinking about this initially in the context of support for the global IGF but very, very easily adaptable to the local NRIs or to the NRIs.  I think we need to I think pull some of that work in to the NRIs.  The Working Groups are all open.  We have NRI members in all the Working Groups as well.  Maybe make a more conscious effort to collaborate across some of those activities. 

The ‑‑ with respect to the program, this is a generalization I know.  But I know some of the NRIs like to hold their annual meetings ahead of the global IGF so it actually informs the global IGF.  And there are some that prefer to do it after the IGF so they can take some of the discussions there and use that to drive their own activities.  And they are both great models.  For whichever sort of end of the spectrum you end on, think about what is a way to build upon what you are doing and the work that is being done here at the global IGF. 

We heard some challenges from President Macron in France.  Maybe that's something that EuroDIG can take up and run it through your EuroDIG process and use that to feed back in to next year's IGF as well.  I know a lot of those points will be of great interest to many other countries.  If we can find a way to feed between the global meetings and the local meetings we will actually get an ongoing discussion that both benefits, though we say this is a great richness in both the global and local level.  We need to find a way to tie them together in an iterative kind of process.  And maybe that's a great way for the community as a whole to both respond to some of the challenges and the points we heard raised and help move forward because obviously a critical agenda whether you support some of those proposals or not, but a critical agenda in the European region. 

The only other point, I think I had to plot some notes, we have also been working on a multi‑year strategic work program.  A lot of the issues we deal with are not easy to advance and solvable in a one‑year time frame.  So plan them out a couple of years in advance would allow all of us to bring in additional partners and collaborators that enriches the work and it is an opportunity for more resources, both human resources as well as financial resources to support our work. 

So we are looking for ways to engage, you know, more deeply and more broadly.  And frankly we have a lot of challenges in front of us.  There is no shortage of issues that we can address.  I think there is some difficulties in maximizing everything we have out of this network.  Oftentimes just because of some of the organizational challenges and resource and support challenges.  Very fortunately and thanks to Stefan and DESA's efforts this year the new MAG is appointed and will be stood up immediately following this IGF.  That's almost four months earlier than the last few years. 

So it is just an enormous advantage to this incoming IGF process.  And hopefully will allow us some time to do some real good kind of iteration in terms of your priorities and issues and processes that we can put in place to work more deeply together. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much, Lynn.  Maybe just to give a final word to Chengetai.  There were questions to the Secretariat.

   >> CHENGETAI MASANGO:  I'll be very quick.  For our national regional IGF to be recognized they have to fulfill certain criteria.  So if they fulfill those criteria I think it would be logical to issue them some sort of certificate, you know, which, you know, we can issue the certificate which can be used as a way to show your legitimacies, per se, if you go and approach Governments and also letters that we can also investigate.  But I'd also encourage if you have a specific issue, that you are trying to contact a member of the Government, contact us.  We have done it last year for a couple of national and regional initiatives that we have actually ‑‑ because here at the IGF the Secretariat, we do have contact with many people from your respective countries.  So I can send an e‑mail or I can make a phone call and just make an introduction for you and tell them what you are about and maybe that will help smooth things over.  So please feel free to contact me or Anja for that. 
    How you can help each other, apart from best practices there has been a lot of talk especially yesterday about just sharing stories, sharing experiences and I think that's one way of doing it.  If you don't have a website, the IGF Secretariat is prepared to make a page for you which is ‑‑ would be a subdomain of our website.  So if you are in a country.Internetgov.org.  We have done it for seven countries.  So if you don't have the resources for a website, please contact us and we will give you space for a website on our subdomain on our website.  And we can also give you regional mailing lists if you so require.  You don't have to go to that expense.  It is not that expensive for us to add another mailing list for you to be able to communicate. 
    For the panel, yes, I do encourage you as Lynn said and as Stefan says to engage with the panel.  Every single Monday the first Monday there is a virtual town hall meeting with the panel.  So I would advise you to join that and give your ideas.  Make sure that they are aware that you are there because part of the reason for the panel is they are not aware of all the channels that they can use.  It would be good to make yourselves noticed and, of course, yesterday as well in the panel in the open Forum of the panel they said they are also looking for champions for implementation of the report.  So I mean you could offer yourselves to be champions.  If you like what the report says or you pick a specific part of the report that you would want to champion you can approach them when the report is out.  And lastly they also have discussion groups as well.  So if you have a specific expertise, let them know.  That's one thing.  The most important thing is get noticed by the Secretariat of the panel.   

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you so much, Chengetai.  Very concrete.  I think we need to help Stefan to catch his plane.  Lynn, yes, Lynn has some final remarks and then ‑‑

   >> LYNN ST. AMOUR:  It wasn't final.  One quick comment.  If you need to leave, Stefan, I definitely don't want to make you miss your plane.  One of the things, just a quick comment, they are also looking for stories.  So success stories or not success stories.  If they sort of exemplify where different ‑‑ the more concrete those examples are the more helpful they will find those.  On Sandra's comment, two‑way learning, it is a two‑way process.  There are a lot of processes happening in your NRIs in your annual meeting that I see coming in to the IGF.  This year some of the processes I happen to see at EuroDIG and follow a little bit at CDIG, how you interact between the people on the panel and the participants online or in the room, where you move back and forth pretty seamlessly.  Did you have Rapporteurs in the room that share their key messages and look is this resonating with the room?  But is it resonating?  Is this a reasonable report from the room?  So right there coming out of the room you have some key messages you can start to develop. 

There have been a couple of other things that I have seen at the NRIs that I actually quoted and see being picked up in a lot of the sessions here.  So we looked to innovate wherever we can.  And if you have any other ideas on how we can improve the sessions, please call them out to our attention because some of them have been extremely helpful. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you, Lynn.  Thank you, Stefan, for your time.  Excellent remarks.  Thank you for being with us. 
   (Applause.)

   >> ANJA GENGO:  I think we can continue with our agenda.  I think with these comments we covered a lot of items from the agenda, but I would ask for a final set of comments if you have or questions on is there anything else in addition what the IGF can do ‑‑ yes, I think Latvia would like to comment on this context.

   >> AUDIENCE:  Yes.  Glad that Lynn is still here.  My comment is directed to her.  Dealing with the multi‑year work program and the idea is try to plan ahead.  And in this planning that this Working Group is also considering the identification of topics that are of relevance to the community.  That are collected by different means, for instance, to the call for issues that has been made this year and probably will be repeated in next year's through all types of Intersessional activities and sessions and discussions through the IGF and so on.  If the NRIs may have some idea of this or may participate or help in this multi‑year planning, and we have this topic identified for Intersessional work not only next year, but also in subsequent years this would help the NRIs to better define, better shape their agenda and bringing contributions from the national and regional IGFs to the global IGF.  If the MAG decides the main topics and the results of the call for issues are identified only in May or June of the year, and the IGF is also November, there is no time for the NRIs really to take advantage of this.  And then to integrate all those topics in to their agenda.  So I think we have to have some mechanism there to better create these links between the NRIs and this multi‑year planning. 

   >> LYNN ST. AMOUR:  Thank you, Fabio.  That's a great comment.  And reminds me of a couple other things as well.  This year we have four more months than we have in the past.  The Working Group on NWP is ‑‑ the acronym is fairly close to putting out an out.  It will be a status report and not a recommendation.  Just kind of capturing the work in the current status of the work.  One of the key pieces of work we did do which was actually started by the Secretariat two years ago was something called the IGF component framework document.  It was a Word document.  Some of the MAG members put that in to a flow and they used a Prezi is the application name but can get it in one powerpoint slide which attempts to show all the inputs and outputs and relationship between them.  It is up on the website.  It is called the IGF program framework document.  They are looking for feedback whether that fairly captures all the components of the process as it exists today.  It might serve as a useful platform that we might want to evolve as we go forward.  We looked at the call for issues we did last April or May.  We had a certain profile of themes that were suggested.  We then did a call for issues based on that set of themes, sorry, a call for workshops based on those set of themes from the call for issues.  Not surprisingly that what came in in the call for workshops pretty much reflected the same diversity we saw in the call for issues.  I mean at one level that means they both kind of validate each other.  At the same time we fell in to as a MAG well, this is a distribution we need to have of the program then.  When you ask globally what are the sorts of things that people are interested in you get a broad spectrum of issues.  Some of the things that you think the community needs to identify we hear lots of too many duplicate sessions, too many themes.  We need to have fewer themes and work them a little more deeply.  And a little more streamed so that one kind of session sort of helps advance or build on another. 
    I think there is some pretty fundamental discussions that the community and the MAG need to take with respect to what do we want for an annual IGF meeting.  The sort we have had today is a pretty broad spectrum of coverage, built bottom‑up from what the community expects.  That's maybe a separate consultation process with the NRIs.  What would help advance the most important issues in your area.  What could the IGF do to advance that.  Would require the MAG to be a little more ‑‑ sort of deliberative in how it chooses to shape the overall program.  And so I think these are some of the discussions that are in front of us.  I think your multi‑year ‑‑ small number of topics multi‑year is important and we need to do that. 

I think that would be one of the easier pieces of what we are doing, but the larger question of what should an annual IGF program look like and what are the fields that we feel most strongly that we need to shape or find a way to hold the community broadly enough on.  And any thoughts or suggestions please help.  And again I will remind everyone that all the Working Groups are open to the community.  So please participate as an individual or as a representative of your NRI.  But please participate. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  There is the survey, yes?  That should be filled ‑‑ the survey is open to the community? 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much, Fabio and Lynn.  All the Working Groups are open to the NRIs.  I do understand the NRIs, why they are not participating in the calls.  That frequently may be because the NRIs is a network, we do have a lot of calls monthly.  So those calls are devoted to the joint work.  And now we started with the collaborative sessions which means you have an additional set of calls.  So I think that really overburdens your schedule in addition to your regular work assignment, yes. 
    But if there are no more questions on this first set of discussion as we heard from, especially how the IGF can ‑‑ yes.  Yes, please.  Sorry, didn't see you.  And I think if Wisdom is still here, you wanted to speak earlier. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Maria, IGF Ukraine.  I will be short.  Remarks to do awareness raising throughout the year.  Would like to sustain the IGF to help people have more meaningful discussions.  So just wanted to highlight the importance and give a perspective on a cybersecurity event.  We did the event in 20 countries.  Just do you have any like plans for that or supports for the events throughout the year, that like help a kind of preparatory work for the IGF like in some kind of way, too?  Thank you so much. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much for the question.  I think we ‑‑ I don't think, I know we are very much familiar with the work of the IGF movement.  And we do consider it as a very important capacity building activity.  Many of the youth IGFs were independently organized and aligned with the NRIs.  It is worth discussing how can we create some synergies between our works.  It is a pity these things are happening in parallel.  That was something that I wanted to discuss tomorrow with some of the colleagues from the youth IGF movement.  It would be excellent to meet with you also and invite some of the NRI colleagues.  But definitely see how we can work together and join resources.  Thank you so much for the comment.  And now to Wisdom. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Hi.  My name is ‑‑

   (Talking at the same time).

   >> AUDIENCE:  My name is Wisdom from Ghana.  I just have some observation to make.  I think in Africa we have issues when it comes to Internet Governance Forum.  Now the issue got to do with one Government, Government and the IGF itself.  It looks like people really don't know what a structure is when it comes to IGF.  Sometimes it is difficult for Civil Society to come in and support with some of the activities of IGF.  So I'm thinking if possible the structure, can we look at, so that everyone is aware of a structure, where someone can come and see that I am supporting the national IGF. 
    And also it looks in Africa our Government are too busy with other activities or sometimes when it comes to issues of IGF, they are kind of not that concerned.  I am sure you are aware, Ghana last year and this year we are kind of blank.  It is not because there is not any attempts.  But because the government is too busy with activities.  Sometimes we talk to them and they are so busy.  Where Civil Society can step in and say okay, we are helping, we are a national IGF.  I think that will also help. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you, Wisdom, very much.  I think you brought very important points.  I think I will collect a couple more questions that I see.  Maybe Jennifer, AprIGF and then respond.  IGF USA.  Sorry. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thanks.  So one recommendation that I have for improving the coordination among the NRIs and amplifying and improving the input in to the IGF is creating some sort of repository that will help the coordination.  Anja, you do a fantastic job.  But having all of this coordinating over different e‑mails isn't necessarily the most efficient way.  And it makes it hard to follow the work that you are not actively engaged in.  So with the different sessions, the coordination sessions like I was involved maybe in the access but I didn't know what was happening in the Fake News.  And maybe we get periodic updates on the calls, but if you miss the calls, it is easy to lose track of the process.  Using a platform like a Wiki and if you know me I love Wikis.  Use a platform like a Wiki that's open, you can crowdsource the information.  It wasn't clear who was speaking even though they had submitted in different e‑mails throughout the weeks, it wasn't clear.  So having a space where each NRI that's part of that can plug in where they speaker is or who their speaker is would be helpful. 
    And, you know, it would be low overhead.  It would save you a lot of time and make you able to focus on more important things than kind of coordinating logistics.  And then I think the other aspect of a repository that's helpful is it elevates the work of the NRIs because other people can see the work that we are doing.  And it places it in the larger scheme of all the work that's not only happening here but in the larger ecosystem. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  There is a question for you here. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Can we rely on your services to set up the Wiki for the IGF? 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Yes.

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  We will get in touch. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  I know we are ‑‑ we need to wrap up this session in a couple of minutes, but just for the information of the present NRIs I think that Dustin is probably the most creative person and expert that I met in this ecosystem.  We discussed this idea of having this repository or observatory.  I think we should continue maybe showing that to the NRIs.  And I know that there is a collective thinking among the NRIs that this ‑‑ something like this should exist.  So there is one place that's not a page on the IGF website where the things ‑‑ and where they will have access to edit certain things.  So what Dustin actually produced looks excellent to be honest.  So I think we will definitely discuss this on ‑‑ maybe even on the first call after the IGF. 
    So now to go to the AprIGF. 

   >> JENNIFER CHUNG:  Thank you, Anja.  This is Jennifer Chung Secretariat, team of the Asia‑Pacific Regional IGF.  First of all, I want to thank you, Anja, for being our focal point.  Without you there couldn't be so much done both within the network and towards the local IGF and towards the MAG.  Thank you very much for that. 

I have been collecting a lot of points from colleagues.  I am going to go through them quickly.  I want to pick up from what Dustin said, I think a repository is useful.  I think very much increasingly this year and from last year when we were doing the NRI collaborative sessions I think this would be a very useful tool that will not add to the immense workload that our focal point does.  We as NRIs can go in and do our work.  I think this is very beneficial.  And actually I wanted to say for AprIGF this year in Vanuatu we used a Wiki platform thanks to Dustin to create this collaborative space for workshop organizers to look for potential speakers.  It is something that we can look at that because I heard a lot of comments and feedback from how difficult it is to find panelists and speakers on topics that will show up at the IGF because of other reasons, funding issues, or the person is new to this ecosystem.  These have a good workshop but they don't have access to the people they want to bring to the panel.  This would be a valuable resource. 

Picking up on Fabio, to plan our own schedules and reflect within our own initiatives as well as reflect back in to the global IGF for a learning experience.  I think that's really important.  And I thank Lynn for stressing the fact that we have four months earlier this cycle.  I hope this planning will take place really well.  Having a more collaborative environment will allow this dialogue to happen.  And I think that's really important.  I think I had a few more points, but I think I will stop here.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you so much, Jennifer.  And I just couldn't agree more.  I'm sure all the other NRI colleagues.  Any last comments?  I just looking at the agenda.  We have exhausted all the items.  We had a discussion on HLC.  Any other last comments?  Yes, Marilyn and then Lori. 

   >> MARILYN CADE:  Thank you, Anja.  Marilyn Cade, IGF USA.  We didn't have a recognized identity in November of 2015 as the NRIs.  We had a situation where people were attending other meetings and walking passed each other because they didn't know it was a coordinator.  I implemented an informal networking process at ICANN.  And at our last meeting we had 65 people.  And that's just what we call in the United States catch us catch can.  Meaning who is there.  That group is now hosted under the IGF support association to make sure that it can meet each time.  I'm not suggesting it is the only place to proselytize and make awareness.  As we look at communications materials, looking at how we significantly enhance the communications materials that are available to the NRIs, to not just have a certificate, but to also have a nice four‑page brochure that includes some success stories, some examples, and that is available to them without cost, that they can use in their own NRI, if it is useful to them.  It won't be useful to all.  But I think that would need to be generated with input from the network of the NRIs but be refreshed.  It could be that it only could be done on a yearly basis.  But I think it is one of the things that helps to build in what we say in business, it builds your brand to have a consistent identity. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you very much, Marilyn.  And that's very concrete to be discussed by the NRIs.  Final comment by Lori.  Marilyn has a panel at 3 o'clock.  I would like to thank her. 

   >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you.  Thank you, Anja, and every colleague here.  And I really think that to this ‑‑ today's meeting and for this session is very fruitful.  And I really see what we were discussing in the previous session how we collaborate in more detail.  And we talk about here.  Also I think that like a Wiki, this is very practical tools that we can use to bring us together.  So I want ‑‑ I just want to see from the experience from China, that we are also like looking for ways to evolve and to figure out what is the most suitable way to do the IGF China.  Because also we see the different situations in different regional and national initiatives.  So we may properly do the annual Forum very quickly because when it happened to China it will be a huge thing.  So we may step by step.  And we will do more like smaller Forums to start and collaborative ways, other national and regional initiatives than the way ‑‑ we all want to address that collaboration with other colleagues.  And we want to put it in to ‑‑ in practical programs or those that can really to improve the benefits of the Internet.  Thank you. 

   >> ANJA GENGO:  Thank you, Lori, very much.  I think this would have to be our last comment because I see that there are panelists coming.  There is a session scheduled here at 3 o'clock.  And I would like to thank the NRIs for their time and valuable suggestions, inputs.  It seems again that we have kind of not fully defined but at least a provisional agenda for the next year that we will be focusing on.  And I'm looking forward.  And also to the nonNRI colleagues that were here with us in a supporting role.  Thank you. 

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