IGF 2020 - Day 4 - IGF 2020 Youth Summit

 

>> MODERATOR:  Ladies and gentlemen, thank you young people and supporters of young people.  Thank you very much for joining the very first Youth IGF Summit that is organized by the, collaboratively, Secretariat by our next host country, the Government of Poland, supported by so many Youth IGFs, National, Regional and sub-regional, capacity development initiatives and networks around the world.

The next 1 1/2 hours we will be going through quite a demanding but interesting agenda is a lot of several months long process, collaborative, open discussion process, that the organizers and collaborators have been carried with the young people from parts of the world.

It is through presentations that youth has spoken to us noting what do they need from the Internet Governance in order to support meaningful engagement of young people.

For us, professional evolved in the Internet Governance, involving young people in this formal process is extremely important.  For the past 50 years, we have been discussing the role of the Internet, digital policy, issues that are arising in that area, they also have been with us.  That means that one generation will not solve all the problems.

That is why this entire youth engagement process that will also extend next year, really aims at the fact that investment in youth is investment in a more secure, open and accessible Internet.  This is our investment and hopefully resolving our Digital Public Policy issues in a more effective and efficient way.

The thing that young people told us in these open consultations is that they do not feel necessarily excluded from our global Internet‑related processes but there is still an issue.  The issue is that they have a lot of space to meet their peers from other countries in the regions to speak to other young people, but the challenge is that they do not have enough space to speak to the decision‑makers, senior experts that can make a decision and be inspired.

We are in the mission, long term, all together as a team to, change that.  I think this is a remarkable opportunity at this Youth IGF Summit to start with that practice.  We are very fortunate today to have live with us His Excellency, Mr. Marek Zagórski, Secretary of State at the Chancellery of the Prime Minister Government Plenipotentiary for Cybersecurity Government of Poland, our next year's host country.  Excellent seeing you here.

>> MAREK ZAGORSKI: Hello, everybody.  This is such a great pleasure for me today on this occasion of the Youth IGF Committee; because it is in your hands that we rest.  Needless to say, it is you and people and most of the world's population who are engaged in all aspects of our lives.  When you first have access to communications and information, make you a main driver for work and change, engagement and missions and achievements building our future.

We in Poland attach great importance to this future, especially the digital space future, these issues very important domain of activity and the government, businesses and civil organizations and also for possible users, future leaders in the digital world.

I received the invitation today that I should share with you a quote of a very of known Polish science fiction writer, who we'll celebrate next year.  Most of you hear about Solaris and know his novel.  But in another novel he wrote that if people from the cave age hadn't believed only what seemed possible, they would still be sitting in caves today.

I think the youth who are able to do and who can do anything that looks impossible.  And please not stop from doing that.

Having said that, after those stories and science fiction movies similar, will always be one step ahead of scientists who often crazy ideas into real, with devices and projects.  For example, the description of the ‑‑ can be found in Greek myths and 1903 made the first (?) in the history of humanity.  The first movie about space travel, a trip to the moon, 1902 and the men stood on the moon in 1969, and the year when the history of Internet began.  In many movies about mass industry agent, James Bond, we see gadgets that seem completely crazy at the time of the making of him.  Many of them exist now in our reality and we use them on a daily basis, remote controls, et cetera.  I would like to stress the technology changes opportunities.

Digitization makes it possible to transfer part of a construction of Research and Development project to virtually and large amounts of data and comparing with historical data and enables important predictions such in this area.

But we need to use technologies carefully.  We all observe and increase the number of those that are interested in the digital society and label digitalness and develop technology and bring more new opportunities.  The role of technology in the digital space will be discussed during the next 30 minutes of this year's IGF.  We would also like to continue this interesting discussion with you next year.  We want the Youth IGF in Poland to continue to be a place of open and real debate, even if it's via controversial debate and to involve you young digital users strongly in discussion and in decision‑making processes.  I encourage you to get involved, tell us what you expect, your voice is very important to us.  Let's design the next meeting together.  Having said that, I'm open for your comments and some questions.

>> ANJA:  Thank you for a very powerful message and for this open call for collaboration and active involvement of young people in designing the youth engagement processes for planning the IGF 2021 next year in Poland.  As I said at the beginning, the criticism from young people we only received in one area that they do not have opportunity to speak to the decision‑makers, to senior experts.  Usually they just hear from them.

I'm so pleased to say that Minister Marek Zagórski has been with us and I'm thankful to his team for channeling this input from young people.  So the Minister will stay with us for a few minutes as his schedule allows and calls for questions.

The floor is now yours.  This is a unique opportunity to directly ask and suggest what could be done for next year in IGF 2021 Poland.  You can either inform me in the chat or you can raise your hand.  I do believe we have a question from ‑‑ a couple of questions but let me use a little bit of discretion and give floor to Mr. Joshua, our dear colleague from the West African IGF.  Joshua?

>> JOSHUA: Thank you very much.  Very nice to see you Minister.  What kind of government ‑‑ Internet Governance, we also want to know what the governments can do to meaningful include youth and Internet Governance discussions and good practices you currently have from Poland.  It would be nice to know.

>> MAREK ZAGORSKI:  More interesting solutions and it's natural and the future of Internet is in fact the future of young.  That's why we should listen and talk to young people because your expectations and visions are crucial.  In this perspective, this question which has to be put how we manage Internet.  It rules your life and seems that the very important question is, for example, what do you think about the freedom of speech in the context of this information of free speech?

But no idea if this question will be prompted in years, but for sure, it will be much better for us if we try to find an answer for this question together from young people.  Because the way how we try to resolve this problem might create a great embarkment.

Usually created around the world as a part of the good starting point for a broad discussion with young people such initiative has also been established in Poland.  Our young peer IGF (?) are here with us today, which I'm very happy about.  But we should involve even more high school students and academics to produce the future even greater results on Internet Governance.  However, we do not intend to wait that long and we like to organize a large youth conference together with you in 2021, which I am grateful.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  Excellent response and excellent question, Joshua, thank you.  There are quite a queue that I see here, but know that we are limited with time.  So I try to actually build a question just by the criteria who was the quick toast raise the hand and ask for the floor.  I see that Keith is with us.  Keith, you have the floor.  I think you were among the first ones that requested to speak.

>> KEITH: Thank you very much and thank you honorable Minister.  It's very nice to connect with you.  My name is Keith from the African Youth IGF and my question is, do you support senior (?) and what is your view and how to achieve it?

>> MAREK ZAGORSKI:  Of course access to Internet access, for example, the COVID‑19 pandemic has shown how important it is in our lives and day‑to‑day issues and access to data and the importance, not only for the users in science and so forth, for the entire economy.

In Poland, for example, we focus on the development of robot networks.  Many projects have been implemented and many more are on the way.  Our goal is to provide broadband besides fiber optic networks to every city in Poland but the entire European Union has the same goal.  However, looking globally, it must be realized that your construction might be difficult in poorer regions of the world.  For this reason projects are getting, for example, Internet provided by (?) universal access is also a question of user’s costs.  Here are possible solutions we have been introduced in Poland, such as free access, for example, education sites, administration portals.  We think it could be used as an idea in other countries.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much, Keith.  Thank you very much for excellent question Mr. Zagórski, excellent response.  Let's move on in the interest of time.  I know we have a couple of just a very few minutes left.  So Mr. Marek Zagórski, we like to tour the world because Internet Governance issues are very different across countries.  Let me allow to ask Elizabeth from Germany to pose the next question for you.

>> ELIZABETH: Thank you for giving me the floor and for hosting and thank you Minister for joining us and giving us your time to reflect.  I have a question on digital education, so we started doing the current pandemic and many people were unable to go to schools and classes transitioned to on‑line but some teachers and students do not have access to the Internet or devices that are good enough to connect or the skills how to use various platforms as developed.  How could governments help long term to overcome this and do you think on line schools are our future?

>> MAREK ZAGÓRSKI: Thank you very much.  Many schools had to switch to distance learning, in general and now we in Germany, I know that there is no need to use (?) to do everything we could do to help them, especially those to keep the process as smooth as possible.  It was in fact a new experience for all of us.  And as we can see, we must be prepared for such situations in the future.  At the same time, digital tools supporting the education process will develop and big assumption of school education will remain, such as book work, direct interaction with the teacher and other students.

Therefore we must think about hybrid model in which elements of additional school and on line school will coexist.  This assumption under lies the project of the national network we are building a free government access network in Poland that connects all educational institutions among other things.  It enables educators to come with great new curriculum and digital competencies and skills.  Access to this, we try to provide equitable education to students in Poland, especially those living inside those areas where schools have small number of students.

Let me repeat the main idea on this question.  I believe that the school will be in time, because in the school there will be a teacher, there will be students, but the tools will be different, will be digital, but the model will be I hope the same.

>> ELIZABETH: Thank you very much.

>> ANJA: Elizabeth thank you for excellent question and thank you for the response.  According to my timeline, we have just very few minutes.  So let's maybe conclude with a very last question with Elaaha is on my list for the last question and then we will move on.

>> ELAAHA: Thank you very much.  I want to ask how much will be the focus of Poland on youth engagement and IGF 2021?

>> MAREK ZAGÓRSKI: Thank you very much.  Yes, IGF organization in Poland they have also taken up the challenge of engaging the community to organize young people around National IGF initiative.  We have known many examples of grassroots, among them the project (?) young people for young people.  The main goal is to increase the activities of decision‑makers at different levels towards young people.  One of the many topics is now cybersecurity of the Internet.

We also, and as we have different ideas and projects they produce issues in the European area.  This year, and I'm very proud of this, for the first time in the history of COVID with the European Union where European countries compete in the number of organizing programming events and Poland was first place in this competition and once again, I'm very proud and once again would like the voice of young people, not only competitions like COVID and in the initiatives for young ‑‑ but would like the voice of young people including, of course, young people from Poland and to be strongly presented in IGF 2021.  We want to design next year's Youth IGF together because I truly believe that we can't do this without you.  I mentioned that the future of the Internet is the future of the young.  So from this we put a great attention to discussion during the IGF 2021.  My team will be in constant contact with you over the next months and I count on your presence and looking forward to great enthusiastic discussions and once again, I hope that we see in Katowice next year not only on‑line.  I hope that you will be there and many other young people will be fostered by this.  Once again, I hope that we will see you in Poland.  Once again, thank you very much.  My time is up.  Thank you to all the team and I wish you a great discussion.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much for staying with us.  I hope there is a change where decision‑makers will be speaking more to young people in this environment.  We looking forward to meet you in person next year in Poland and thank you for your encouraging words.

>> MAREK ZAGÓRSKI: Thank you very much.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much once again.  We will continue.  We have an ambitious agenda.  Before we continue, there were some excellent questions in the chat, as expected.  We worked together for the past several months and I know that this session in advance will be very interactive.  I want to thank the colleagues for posing the excellent questions, for putting them in the chat for Q&A.  I want to rest assure you we will address them.  We are not alone when it comes about the Polish side.  I see a number of colleagues from the Polish government that are on the score.  When we reach the third block of this session, we will have a more meaningful engagement with colleagues from Poland and discuss what could be done next year, announce some interesting programs.

Let me now please move us back to our agenda that I hope you all see on the schedule on the IGF 2020.  So as you notice, this session will go until 7:00 p.m.  UTC.  So we do have some time to dedicate ourselves to interactive, detailed discussion on the priority matters you have decided to be discussed.

So we'll have three blocks.  Each block will have substantive inputs from our colleagues from the Youth IGFs.  We'll be speaking in the first block about the digital divide and the importance of next generations working on building bridges to digitally connect people.  We will be moving to rethinking our education, what's our vision for the traditional formal and informal education; and then we will move to the third block which will relate to the developing capacity and Internet Governance for next generation of leaders and experts.

Each of these sections will feature senior stakeholders.  I'm very glad that I see some of my dear colleagues, senior experts, people that I have been also learning about Internet Governance matters throughout my work in the Secretariat for several years now, and I hope that colleagues will stay for us for that next period of time.

So I would like to start with the first discussion block.  Before we start, I didn't want to start without thanking ‑‑ the entire community is going through and quite challenging times, difficult, painful times.  We have lost one of our dearest colleagues.  And I was thinking, as in previous sessions, should the summit start with a minute of silence for Ms. Marilyn Cade?  I think she is a person that doesn't need an introduction.

And then thinking better because Marilyn was also my close friend and I think I know her well.  I know that her advice would be just please proceed with the best possible discussion because if there was a person that believed in young people, it was Marilyn I believe.  She worked so much with young people.  She supported so many young people.  I'm sure that many of you can testify to that fact.  Please let us continue with carrying out this discussion.  Let's have a good discussion with good outputs and outcomes, good plan for your better future, for all of our better future on the Internet in honour of our dear friend and colleague, Ms. Marilyn Cade.

With that, I would like to open the first discussion block.  We will hear from a couple of our colleagues.  Youth IGFs work very hard in preparing these topics.  The first block relates to the digital divide, to the next generations building bridges to digitally connect people.  We will discuss a couple of policy areas, especially about why do we need to have Internet?  What is the status in your local communities on digital and gender‑based divide?  Who are the marginalized groups?  What are the opportunities for full on‑line participation by everyone?  How do we achieve connectivity?  Can we do something from ourselves?  And what are the examples of good practices to help digitally connect people?

We have a couple of colleagues with us now.  I know somewhere challenged in terms of connecting.  Is Saka (sp) from Chad Youth IGF with us?

Or are we still waiting for him to connect?  I think we are still waiting.  I'm not sure that anyone from the Chad Youth IGF is currently with us.  They may join us.

Maybe I give the honour to the Youth Afghanistan IGF to officially open this discussion segment.

>> ELAAHA: Thank you very much again.  Hello, everyone.  I'm a coordinator and one of the founding members of Afghanistan's Youth IGF.  And coming to this topic of this session, I would say that as you can imagine, Internet has become an essential part of our lives and Afghanistan is no exception to that; however we face a different challenge in terms of connectivity, the Internet penetration in Afghanistan is still around 20% of the population and most of whom are on the social media users.  Between this, women and elderly and People with Disabilities are those who are disproportionately affected by this digital divide.

This pandemic has just shown us that how much vital the Internet connectivity is in situations like that when businesses need to run, but they can't and people lose their jobs and lose their sources of income, which in turn increases and exacerbates current challenge that is we have in countries like Afghanistan, which is affected by war and which deals with very complex challenges and situations.  The main challenges for the cause this digital divide are lack of affordability, lack of services and coverage, lack of local content and lack of basic electricity and digital literacy.  Literacy in Afghanistan remains at 30% for female, women, and only 55% for men.  So that is very low, which causes also a lack of digital literacy.

And during this pandemic, we have only very few number of organizations in Afghanistan that could range or work from home and the other organizations and businesses have to halt their activities and many have to social distance.

These are of the challenges we have and there is no single solution for these challenges and that is very complex issue.  But there are also roles that other stakeholders, other than government, play to close this gap and reduce the digital divide.  One of these ways I can say is fostering digital literacy and that could be very useful if it started from schools and then also universities are included in that.  For that collaboration is needed among academic institutions as well as Civil Society institutions.

Increase of local content is also very important.  Afghanistan, a lot of people do not or are not able to get information from the Internet because local contents are not available and English language is problem here.

As examples, good examples I can say in Afghanistan, advocacy movements have been proved to be very useful and we have very good example of that here, which is run by Civil Society and regarding Telecom companies are providing very low‑quality services at very high prices.  And that to some extent resulted in positive achievements after the government imposed lockdown a number of Telecom companies with involvement of Afghanistan's TeleCom Reg Authority, they reduced the prices of different services of Internet they provided.

Still we have a long way to go but that is very good start and have proved to be useful and eye‑opening for the government and for the companies and Private Sector.

Other community‑driven initiatives are also very important in terms of society, Afghanistan has been involved in these activities over the recent years.  We have had organized three additions of Internet Governance at the national level and one addition of Youth Internet Governance.  Which are very useful in building this connection between the estate and the people and giving people opportunities to raise their concerns and given their Internet Ecosystem, the opportunity to ask their questions and raise their concerns and interact with their decision makers and policy makers.

Other examples that have been proved to be useful in other countries, but we haven't tried it yet, is community networks which I think would be a very good start.  In Afghanistan we deal with a very complex situation, so good to start with would be urban centers and particularly universities and schools for that.  So that's something we can see if that could be a solution in Afghanistan.

So the whole point of the discussion is that youth engagement is very important and Civil Society so we can engage government and hold them accountable for providing Internet access to people and for digital inclusion strategies and activities that are being delivered and thank you very much.  Happy to answer any questions.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  I'm sure you're going to receive a lot of questions because you give such a good overview of what is hag upon in your country with young people.  Really the digital divide.  Before we move on and take any questions, Saka, I don't know if you're still available to speak.  Would you come in to tell us briefly about the situation in Chad Youth IGF?  It seems not that maybe we have some audio issues.  In any case, Saka, whenever you want to come in, please feel free.

I said earlier that for us in Internet Governance, it is important here from different perspectives and all perspectives.  And that is the only way you can build a comprehensive agenda that will be relevant tool.

That's why I would like to move geographically just speaking a little bit further from Afghanistan now and go to Indonesia.  I think the Head of The Youth IGF there is with us to give us an overview on the same question I asked at the beginning about the ways to digitally connect people, especially the role of young people could play there and the marginalized groups in the country.  You have the floor.

>> Thank you.  And good evening from Indonesia.  I like to express my appreciation to gather here today showing commitment on developing Internet Governance.  Indonesia has its very unique area and we actually have digital divide and digital issues as well.  From our Indonesian telecom communications has significant increase of Internet access for 28% over the last year.  In the pandemic.  Expenses is also increasing.  At any rate, Internet is really well used in Indonesia.  However, this dependency still has to be watched carefully because while we are ‑‑ while mainly in this region come alive, we have become more dependent and we need to assess our strategy with youth into the future while we absorb more technology and adopt more technology, we need tools prepare ourselves by always adding our skills, by always improving our competences to say what the world needs in the future.  This is what many Indonesia youth, many stakeholders do with digital skills.

Digital divide and universal access, the challenge of digital divide for cell connectivity to provide access for communities as well as empowerment towards managing the communities in rural areas, we have someone who is very far from the Capitol who can only be reached after seven hours flight and they do not have good Internet access.  This is a problem.  We also have our indigenous community, who by cultural belief, they refuse to have Internet access in their area.  We also have, of course, our friends from LGBTQ plus who maybe have still become target for any bullying or definitions or any attack from people who have different beliefs.  And of course women are still being marginalized in terms of accessing Internet in terms of having their own freedom in accessing Internet.  These are part of the problems in Indonesia and many of you have and still try to address.  And we are still a lot of room for improvement.  But we are working there.

In Indonesia, still needs a lot of our youth index shows we are still rank 173 out of 183 countries.  So we are still below.  This needs to be improved and this looks to bear result.  Many youth now has become more expert.  Many start up, many unicorns.  Many youth initiatives, and many other spaces are the target of the government.  However, we cannot deny the fact that there are still ‑‑ unfortunately where youth are being alienated where some stakeholders see that we need to have you employee and staff but the fact is they just serve as buffer for the government for the stakeholders, for the company who talk with youth.  So youth are still being excluded in some way despite of their expertise.

On the other level, youth has responsibility to assist digital migrant from other generations.  We need to push the transformation.  We need to assist the transformation because they are still adapting.  We need to provide them with incentives and how to transform their mindset digitally.

COVID‑19 has pushed this and hey how I start my Zoom session?  How do I make Zoom session?  How do I write in WhatsApp properly?  What digital signature?  This becomes more commonplace to those who have digital from the day we were born.  We were gathered by phone, computer, and signals.  We have responsibility to help them.  If we can do at the same level of playing field, at the same level of our relationship, it also will be difficult for us to communicate with them.

So, I think that is all basically how Indonesia looks in our position and our mission that the point.  I will come respond and feedback but to close, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you our members.  I trust commitment and dedication will keep inspiring us today and in the future.  Thank you.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  Thank you for these excellent inputs.  It truly brings youth perspective on the layers of challenges that you face in terms of the Society and reasons why people cannot be connected or honored and connected.  I think it's an excellent addition to what we were being told, it is different.  That is always my point with the Youth IGFs and also in general the IGF ecosystem.  Local communities have different issues and the only way how we can resolve and create Internet that is going to be open and accessible for all is really if we all work together.

This is an important step this topic.

We have heard quite a lot in terms of the facts, specifically in terms of the analysis and implementation of those facts.  I would like to now open the floor for a few minutes to hear your observations on what is being said.  And very specific question.  What particular roll young people can play in helping to cover digital divide and gender‑based digital divide.  Any components what we have heard so far ‑‑ any comments?

I especially encourage our senior experts to also take the floor but I do think that Daphne raised her hand.  You have the floor.

>> DAPHNE: Thank you.  First of all, thank you for the great talks on the situation in the countries.  What I was thinking about mostly when urn discussing the different points is I think that the youth has an incredibly amazing understanding of what is going on on the Internet and what is going on with regards to connect activity and everything.  So, I think what role we can play is definitely to make our voice heard and to have conversation also with other stakeholders because we want to get involved as well and we have great ideas to fix the digital divide.  So I definitely think that we should try to connect more with governments, technological companies and all of those and show what amazing ideas we have.  Thank you.

>> ANJA: Apologies.  I think I was muted.  Thank you very much Daphne.  Those are extremely important comments.  Before we give maybe feedback or see the commonalties between these comments, just to see if anyone else would like to take the floor and make sure ‑‑ I'm looking at the chat as well to see if anyone would like to speak.  Valeria, you have the floor.  And then Julianna and we'll need to move to another section.

>> VALARIA: Thank you.  For question, I think the youth can play the main role in education.  For example the youth can promote digital skills along with civil societies along organizations that work on a volunteer basis and to ‑‑ the youth can create platforms, for example such as these form a lot of volunteer organizations to come out on this issue.  Because unfortunately, to reduce digital divide, nowadays, in the national strategies we can see a lot of differences and to my mind, these differences preclude International corporation in this way.

So the main question that we should rise, what should be done and what is the role of International community in ensuring digital in inclusion how can the youth join approach and join the efforts that are made by International communities.  Thank you.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much for bringing the component of the International community in this context, which I think is very important because we can work alone in our silos.  We need harmonized frameworks and we have seen that through the discussions so far at the IGF on so many topics.

I think Julianna asked for the floor.  So I'd like to give the floor to her and then we would need to move to the second section.

>> JULIANNA: We also have a important role in policy making not only nationally but also Internationally.  If we do unite towards the case of connecting the entire world and providing the tools that are necessary for this and regulation that is necessary to achieve it, we can do this as a community of young people around the world.  That's what I'd like to say.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  And I do think the burden is really on us to have to a certain extent, dons create those conditions for youth so we can have exchanges with those that can make decisions and I cannot agree more with you.

With that, last comment and I have to do this because Christina has been such an influential and important person in Youth IGF ecosystem for the past two years that we know each other.  And I would like to hear from you about your question and then we will move to the second segment.  Christina you have the floor.

>> CHRISTINA: Hi, guys.  Thank you.  I feel very happy to be a Panelist and to hear about your experience.  One that the young people have is opportunity, so work, like I'm in the government improve ecosystem or help the stakeholders ecosystem.  Maybe some time and activities about Internet government are not like a little decision, national communities have so when we can do, what we can do after this, if you create a project, you try something with stakeholders, they can tubing you but then maybe they see that you have or what we have to do a little work, they gone.  And then what do we do?  That is my question.  Thank you.

>> ANJA: That is a very good question.  And it's been addressed by a couple of colleagues in the previous remarks.  Here is my suggestion.  I think this summit and this session definitely should go into the direction of concrete suggestions and ideas and exchange of already existing good practices.  I think our next discussion block really nicely fits to this.  It is about our educational frameworks.  Thinking formal education and what is the vision for next digital generations?  Some of you at the very beginning mentioned how important it is to invest in young people and that means investing into their education, whether formal or informal channels.

Now this is probably one of the most critical parts we are going to discuss today.  So I'm very happy that today with us we have our dear colleague and friend of the IGF, Mr. Alex Wong.  I'm quite sure that you would recognize Alex's face and name.  I had the pleasure to meet Alex while he was work other for the world economic forum and the International Telecommunications Union.  Quite a visionary and expert in digital innovation and digital policy and we are very fortunate to have him.  Let me quickly give the floor to Alex and then Alex can guide us to moderate and hear from young people about their views on educational systems and how can digital innovation support changing and making all of us benefiting more from our education.  Alex?  Thank you for joining us and your support.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you, Anja and thank you for the kind introduction.  So I have a lot less hair in my photo because I'm an old person.  So I'm very pleased and honored to be moderating this session with you, all of you who are the young leaders of our next generation.

So yes, this session will be on education.  And I'll just start off with a remark that, one of the roles that the IGU that I have and I'm within the telecommunication development bureau, so for you that know the IGU or maybe don't, the U.N. agency on ICTs does have a development bureau that focuses on closing the digital divide and we launched a project a year ago called Vega, with UNICEF where our aim is to connect every school to the Internet.  And that is using a lot of advanced market commitments, development finance techniques but equally importantly pooling the demand across the schools around the world collectively.

So the project is very relevant for this topic and a lot of you are thinking, what is the use of connecting the school if you're not allowed to be in the school because of COVID?  Indeed, we believe that schools can be then the access point that can then develop and provide the connectivity to the surrounding villages and the communities and of course the young people and the children.

So, that is something I can talk more about later or address or answer any questions.  I'm want to pass the floor to our discussants and so, maybe with Anja's guidance we first have a Keynote input, if I'm not mistaken.  Do we invite ‑‑

>> ANJA: I would give a choice if peeled like to speak now or hear firstly from our colleagues and then give reflections after.  I'm aware of the interesting content that will come to the floor so I think it fits both scenarios.  So it's up to you what are you more comfortable with?  I don't know whether he be hear us.  Let me just quickly check I think we are able to.

>> JAKUB BORKOWSKI: Thank you for the opportunity to be with you and give my remarks.  I think you can also see me.  Although I'm thinking as this forum is your forum, it's for youth and I would suggest maybe it would be more appropriate to listen first about your activities and then maybe I could conclude if that would fit the scenario?

>> ALEX WONG: Very good.

>> ANJA: I think both Alex, and especially our colleagues, are happy with that.  We started with Marek Zagórski from Poland and we are hoping that the Minister, you, and pioneer a practice where young people will have dire opportunity to speak to decision makers and senior experts and really be the voice where changes can be implemented.  So with that, Alex, if you agree, let's maybe start from our colleagues from the youth Latin‑American IGF.

>> ALEX WONG: Very good.

>> JULIANA: Hello, I'm from San Paulo Brazil and part of the observe torte Internet youth (?) I'm going talk about education 4.0 in my region.  I was in those places around the world, there was no schools that were prepared to deal with the consequences imposed by distance and social isolation and of course countless sectors are struggling to adapt and find ways to overcome this difficult situation.  Of course it would be no different education.

However, I don't think we can actually talk about education 4.0 in Latin America without talking about the digital divide.  Latin America we are so far away from connecting the entire region and measures of social isolation in this sense highlighted inequalities that come with lack of Internet access.  Having no access to the Internet in a household in the context of this pandemic in Latin America means that the kids are basically going to miss one year of education.  In the context of rural areas where there is no Internet infrastructure, it means the entire communities are going to be excluded from the educational system while lasts.

So I don't think it's only a matter of having Internet access but also as a way to access education in 2020, depends directly on the quality of your connection as well as the devices you have.  So not only on having or not Internet; because education on line often means you have to stream videos, download content, type papers and you can not do that in a quality way using for example your parent's phone or sharing a device with four of your siblings at the same time, or with your zero‑rating services only.  So that is what many families in Latin America are doing, they are improvising because they don't have the appropriate resources.  I think this is the most basic point I wanted to raise but there are other issues I wanted to bring up.

Public schools in the region are not entirely prepared to provide teachers with educational resources such as educational digital platforms, methodologies et cetera.  Most schools before the pandemic did not have the necessary support to often on line education and with the pandemic, they had to adapt to that overnight.  So schools needed to find ways to adapt.

Some of the schools needed to buy licenses to digital platforms in education but this platforms are often paid and schools cannot afford them with their annual budget and the options that are not paid usually requires some technical work that has to be done and not all of them have the support that they need in order to do that.

What is happening a lot in this region is that teachers are having to improvise on their own using their own personal resources in order to teach their students remotely.  I have heard in many cases, for example, elementary schoolteachers don't have access to digital platforms to up load content so they have to send everything to their students by WhatsApp or messaging Apps.  So definitely not an ideal situation in terms of resources.  On both sides, most on the school side and on the student's side as well.

I know I don't have much time left but I want to say that although education 4.0 is already a reality and it opens many doors and opportunities for improvement in our educational system, however, I don't think Latin America is prepared for this at this point.  And it's necessary to us, the youth and the IGF ecosystem, whether you're from Latin America or not, to pressure government and International community for equality, universal Internet connection, educational resources that are open‑source or offered at reasonable prices and also adequate infrastructure and connective devices so no student or teacher is left behind during the pandemic and after the pandemic.  Thank you very much.  I'm open for your questions as well.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you very much, Juliana.  Let's continue with our other Panelists.  I have a sore throat but not COVID.  I got tested and I'm clear but my apologies for my voice.  I'm losing it.  But let's go to our next colleague from Germany, Youth IGF, Elizabeth.

>> ELIZABETH: Thank you.  I can start by framing a message to the Youth IGF Germany put adds outcome to the meeting in September we also talked about digital education, and we concluded that schools and the universities are particularly affected by the COVID‑19 pandemic and the outcomes so the lack of technical equipment and preparation and lack of digital concepts have led to increased education injustice we see.

Students without adequate equipment need special support from the states or from the government and the stakeholders, and digital literacy among teachers and students must be promoted early on.  The progress we see in e‑learning and digital concepts should be maintained after the pandemic ended, maybe we can get some good learnings out of it.  The situation in Germany in terms of how we could like get through the pandemic and also see new forms of schooling with mix.  Some schools have really good methodologies and have the means to work with the students to cater to needs and open to new concepts but for many here we talked to students also in our Panel back in September, is that it's not working very well.  The German educational system is relatively fragmented as each federal state is in charge of their own educational policies and some of them are open to innovation and some of them are closed off so this differs from region to region and sometimes also school to school and we see those big differences.

From our perspective, we concluded that we need to see digital education and new schooling as holistic things.  So it's not only Computer Science but it's also Computer Science but it's also learning how to navigate digital spaces in an autonomous way.  So really I want to point out the importance of school but school as a starting point for lifelong learning.

We also need educators.  So teachers who are able to navigate platforms and devices in such a way that their students get the most benefit out of that knowledge as well.  And we see there is a language of education for teachers ‑‑ lack of education for teachers and educators.  We need more awareness for tighter security of students for example, so when we work in such a digital environment now, especially, so we need to be able to have data security.  We think resources is a good way to approach this and will help greatly in fostering open‑learning environment.

We see that collaboration would be amazing.  There is a lot of private initiatives and NGOs who are really innovative in their approaches and we also see openness from the government in Germany to adapt some of those ideas.  And the German government is also focused more now on fostering digital education.  So from what we heard or from what I heard, they want to make 2021 the year of digital education, actually.  So hopefully there is a way to go forward and really reflect on what we have learned so far.

Another point I want to make as my last point for now, is that we also need to see young people as a advantage, resource.  We have to ask young people about their educational journey and their knowledge because we see that many youngsters are digitally outsmarting their teachers.  So it could be a good process that educators and educatees learn from each other rather than having a very top‑down educational approach that you see in many cases.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you, Elizabeth.  Now let's turn to West Africa Youth IGF, Joshua, please.

>> JOSHUA: Thank you very much.  I was just going to talk about the issue of the COVID‑19 and our education system from West Africa and a little bit say what we have done to make it better since then.

Coming from a place where we have digital divide in terms of connectivity and we have people, millions of people who really don't have access to Internet on a daily basis, it's quite hard for us to move from going out every day to go to the schools and then one day you lawyer you can't go anywhere.  For everybody to adapt to it because talking about low penetration of the Internet, we also have issues where there are more people over access who don't have access to devices either.  So there is no Internet and less devices.  So even if there is some Internet in some locations, there is too little infrastructure in regards to devices for the individuals to use.

So some of the ways that we saw is some young people, according to the last discussion we had at the IGF in some countries, what they did was on their own pathway were able to organize sections and be able to teach their communities little stuff.  So some came up with some applications that have some ‑‑ more like trainings in some specific subjects, and some young people took it as a opportunity to be able to use that to train their community.

Apart from that, we had television and radio stations that talk to people about some courses because we know it's easier to use the television and radio to get to people instead of the Internet.  So television or radio also have great way to reach out to people in some communities that don't have access.

Also coming from the area we values a lot of shot‑down where we invite the government to stop shutting down the Internet.  Some people don't see much need or why they need to connect.  And it's much of the name in this town, why you need to connect?  So there have been some kind of awareness during this lockdown also as a way to tell people that this is the importance of the Internet too because you need to talk to people, send money to people.  You can't do that when you're locked down at home.

That's where the on line banking comes in.  You might need to reach tout a loved one who is across the city away from you and you want to communicate with them.  So the COVID‑19, we have been able to tell people in the different communities why we actually need to use Internet.

And also locally, it also helps the government in different countries to be able to come up with policies that, where digital in terms of some of the curriculums in some countries are a little bit outdated because pretty much nobody sees the curriculum.  You see it in some community and no way to update the curriculum.  No general database where you can see the new updates that have to do with your particular subject or teachings.  During the lockdown it also helped some teachers to be able to get on the Internet because then you might not have like a central date at base and you might have to use some of the institution's database to be able to get the updates.  So some people also looked at other institutions and were able to copy some of the new stuff.

So the I talked about no Internet and the Internet shutdown and collaboration that happened between more young people to be able to get curriculums and let people in their community to be able to access more education.  Thank you very much.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you Joshua for that.  Our last youth leader, Jena, please.

>> JENA: Sorry I was on mute.  Can you hear me now?

>> ALEX WONG: Very good.  Yes.

>> JENA: Thank you for have me here.  I'm the coordinator of the Asia‑Pacific Youth area and the Hong Kong Youth area.  It is already 1:30 here but I'm glad to be able to participate and share experience and ideas on educations and the futures from a more Asia‑Pacific perspective.  We had a workshop session conducted back in September of this year.  So hopefully I'll be able to bring those inside with some personal experience in Hong Kong to this Panel today.

So education 4.0 was an abstract zero before COVID‑19.  But, when it comes just like said, it becomes the reality.  Digital transformation and education is thought to be implemented when the schools announced to be suspended on such short notice when we had COVID‑19.  Many challenges phased by the teachers and students and also the managements of school but undeniably the pandemics actually impacted the way we educate and this has inference a lot in how the future of education will look like after the experience of COVID‑19. 

There are many challenges I'm not going to name all of them but I may need to bring out especially these are the biggest challenges faced in Asia‑Pacific like first comes to the transformation in on line learning, schools have to adapt and implement on learning because they have challenges because the redness of such transformations varies from school to school.  Adequate knowledge about digital technology might pose challenges to school in planning new learning models.  And choosing which approaches whether they should have a pre reported video or having live lessons for student and they have struggles and designing new time tables.  Main focus on dealing with the viruses itself and they might not have enough support from the government to measure the strategies deal with the situations in education, so school may have to deal with on their own.  So talking about challenges, students also facing some of the difficulties ‑ many lack physical and social infrastructure in Asia to support effective engagement in on line learning.

So for example, end users might not have access to the Internet, students and teachers might not have access to catch‑up with the transitions of learning approaches and submitting assignments.  But the schools, some like mentioned in our Panel in APRGF, students will have to climb mountains to get better signal just to attend a class or they have to climb up a try to get a better connection.  So there are some challenges faced in Asia‑Pacific.  But we can see digital education will be our futures and it is really time for us to learn a lesson from the pandemic and we think the educations of our future in this new normal.

Talking about rethinking education, it's not only saying we have to think about the new approach of new models we use in education, but also the meaning behind educations.  So students, you get to access to more resources.  You can have the animals on line.  You goat have different courses provided by different institutions.  Not only from your own country ‑‑ not only receiving education from your own country but to other resources also.  So it is really time for us to develop more critical thinking, the sources of education you're receiving in order to choose the best ‑‑ not choosing the best, access to more information and knowledge.  But not only limited to what you used to be taught.  It is actually a good opportunity for all of us to explore more, to rethink about education as young people.

In order to echo on what Elizabeth said earlier, young people should get involved as a source in this development process in education.  So, we can get involved so all stakeholders should get involved in designing what they should be taught and how education should be looked like; because education is like water.  It can nurture a new generation but 23 it's done wrong, it can destroy an entire generation.  So we cannot let a particular stakeholder to decide like what we should be educated, but young people and all stakeholders should get involved to design and make decisions for our educations and we have to do it right together.

For sure, digitalizations in educations will be our future but I do not personally think on line education will completely replace face‑to‑face class because it will lose a lot of physical and eventual cues and also important elements in some education for some young people at very early age, educations.

Of course, like so for other challenges, for sure, governments efforts is very important, especially in the establishments of infrastructure for connectivity.  Because on line learning highly depend on infrastructure and I think governments should put more in improving the connectivity people have and for other challenges.  If anything stakeholders think it clearly, instead of highly depending on their own government and keep saying it's their responsibility, we should actually take a step back to think if all stakeholders take their power to do it together for the community, we can do more.  So take an example in Hong Kong.

The Hong Kong government might not support schools too much or not even the citizens too much.  But because the Internet evolved every second, if the stakeholder, for example, student itself, the school or the educator they can actually not wait for the new policy announced by anyone but you can actually choose the best approach that is best for your audience, your own school will have some policies but it must be different for another school.

So I think it is really time for us to actually rethink not only the new approach for education in this new normal but rethink the new meaning of education.  So that is basically what I want to share here.  For sure I have a lot more I want to talk about but I will keep it short so we can have more time to have some Q&A or some other interaction.  So that's all for me.  Thank you.

>> ALEX WONG: All right, you thank you very much.  You ended it well with some very big questions.   I noted questions about how to get youth more engaged in general.  Some of you may ‑‑ also about how to make the digital education happen?  Who has the responsibility and how do we get the right stakeholders involved?  With that, let me pass to give your remark.  Maybe you want to touch on these themes and then maybe a couple minutes left for general questions and wrap up.

>> JAKUB: Thank you very much.  It's clearly pandemic situation that just hit us, it clearly amplifies all these challenges that you mentioned from different regions.  It's extremely ‑‑ listen your viewpoints from different regions indicating very critical pre requirements for education 4.0 and digital transformation, which is access to connectivity, which should be provided as a basic need today.  It's also very impressive to hear about the practices and also the opportunities that you see that this digital transformation education is bringing to us.  We are very proud to cooperate with you and youth today and we are committed to empower young talents by technologies to jointly contribute to the society.

It has become European company industry creating value and promote digital assistance.  Today despite all the channels that we are aware of, which are brought by COVID‑19 and also as you know, this macro environment, we are as determined as ever to continue to support you and drive and develop young talents.  Innovation is bottomless.  It flourishes through collaboration, collaboration and sharing is key in digital transformation in empowerment.  We will always focus in supporting innovation and young talents.

We believe young initiatives could grow faster and healthier with proper and more directed mentoring and targeted programs and hence to create innovative solutions not just regionally but also globally.  As we develop talents and education and innovation and corporations and also through number of our programs directed for innovation and targeted for innovation and aimed for developing local talents such for the future, notification programs, ICT and others.  I would like to ‑‑ my time is short over here.

For example, while we see the well program in Europe in 2011, global in 2008 it's already an old program.  We have partnered with over 208 universities globally from 96 countries all with mission to develop local talent in obviously ICT field.  And let's take Europe and since the program begun in 2011 we have supported already 1,300 European students from French European countries and we expect that by end of 2021, it's now we are moved this program to on line due to pandemic, we aim to support 3000 more Europeans in this program.

So, the intention is that we share our knowledge in all the relevant fields, including 5G, artificial intelligence, AI Cloud Computing, in a global business environment, passing kids to young people from different countries and aiming to build a bridge between the knowledge which is acquired during University classes and practical skills required in the industry to improve the knowledge transfer.

The partis nation this project is also an opportunity to experience virtual ‑‑ before it was physical, so people actually go to China for a training to see our factory and different departments, how we work to experience virtual interaction communication and experience science and future business commitments.

Strong commitment to Research and Development and innovation.  You have probably have seen those fields that we locate 10 persons of venue to investments in R&D.  So for example, in this year, in 2020, our investment has increased 20 billion dollars in R&D and a preparation for significance and partly brought by this pandemic for network infrastructure and services.  Our R&D tests are led across 23 different countries, 23 different centers in 12 countries in Europe.  So in Europe alone there are about 2.4 thousand people in our R&D mission and this R&D activity has generated over 10,000 registered with European office to date.

I also wanted to mention about our innovation research program, which in this framework we are covering partnership collaboration with universities.  At the moment there are about 300 universities in this program, joined this program, since 2004 with the proper investment of about 900 million euros.  In Europe, we ‑‑ European Union we have been collaborating with more than 150 universities.

As examples, in my country, in Poland, with Warsaw University of Technology, in this program Polish students will receive the latest equipment for working with artificial intelligence and soon in partnering with other industries.  We are opening a study program on the cybersecurity in Warsaw as response in lack of experience in this field.

Going deeper towards the business side, we also proud to in a partnership with star buck in Poland, also as example and activities are happening in other countries likewise in launching a competition program.  We call it #start up challenge across regions.  We focus on local talents empowered by technologies and their contribution to the society.  And then come back to those challenges you have indicated today of digital inclusion and access to connectivity, that is The Centre of team of the challenge this year is fighting with digital exclusion such that we hope to drive to, shake the ecosystem to industry and collect those interesting outputs, which will be finalized with the gala in March 2021 from our site.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you.  Just one more minute, please.

>> JAKUB: So with participation in these events, we are reaffirming commitment to using technology skills and applications to create new value in digital inclusion.  In the future, we also want to education and development clearly, development of talent together with our Partners to promote what our industry has to offer and implement this initiative of full technology inclusion.

Together, we can go to the specific times and together we can innovate to make difference.  Collaboration and sharing is critical these days.  And Poland is hosting IGF 2021 next year.  I also want to conclude with one final sentence that we seriously looking to cooperate 8 with the you and see you next year in IGF 2021 hosted by Poland.  Let's contribute together for future of the digital innovation globally.  Thank you very much.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you.  Anja, I know we are a minute past but maybe I could ask our four Panelists to answer with one sentence only so we address one of the questions that came up.  And I think many of you raised this.  What would be the one way to get more youth engaged in helping to rethink education for the next digital generation?  I think that was a question in the Q&A.  We'll start with you Elizabeth, but one sentence.  So 10 seconds each so we can get to the next Panel.  Elizabeth over to you first since you were asked that question in the chat in particular.

>> ELIZABETH: Okay, I will make it short.  I really believe in deliberative process system.  So, processes that allow for young people to be involved in the building of curriculum, be asked and work together with their teachers and policymakers to really in this deliberative process come out with ideas that go beyond what we do at the moment.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you.  Juliana in Brazil.  Over to you, please.

>> JULIANA: Thank you very much.  In one sentence, I would say that creating more programs and building opportunities so that young people can actually feel like they are part of this process that they can actually improve it and make a better educational system for themselves and for the ones that come after.

>> ALEX WONG: Thank you.  Jena to you, please.

>> JENA: So, one sentence.  I think we should embrace creativity of young people with the experience of the power of all stakeholders for better education.

>> ALEX WONG:  And Joshua.

>> JOSHUA: I believe young people have a big role to play and in making the Internet accessible to everyone.  I think we should be given the opportunity to do that.

>> ALEX WONG: I'll give my final, a plug for IGU.  We see the value of the youth and we need the youth involved.  When we host our world Telecom development conference, every four years where we get our mandate from the members on what we need to do with it as a U.N. Nation, next November it will be held for the first time ‑‑ we are holding it in Ethiopia and a Youth Summit as well.  So I'll make sure Anja has the details to that so we can invite participants from the Youth Summit to join us as we address the challenges on ICT and digital development.  So thank you very much.  Back to you, Anja.  Sorry for being a little over the time limit.

>> ANJA: Not at all.  First of all Alex, excellent presentation and time management.  Great questions.  Food for thought for next block.  Thank you very much for finding time to be with us.  I know you're very busy and multitasking and the issues with your throat and you still decided to join us.  Much appreciated and I'm looking forward to receiving more sources on the event happening.  Hopefully colleagues can contribute.  Definitely you see there is a great potential already great expertise among all these young people and I'm sure that our future is bright as long as we support them and invest in their meaningful engagement.  Thank you.

I want to thank also Mr. Borkoski for being with us.  It seems you're working on a lot of projects.  Next year the IGF is hosted in Poland.  I'm sure you'll be there engaging actively and young people will have the opportunity to meet with you and your colleagues and discuss the projects you're working on.  Thank you for joining.

>> JAKUB: Thank you very much.  I am looking forward the next year and I hope it will be more normal times after this pandemic.

>> ANJA: We all do.  Thank you very much for joining and thank you for your time.

And special thanks goes to all our speakers.  It was such an inspiring input we received from you and I do think and I hope that especially this topic, which I have to say I'm very biased here, very close to me as well, that could be our topic to build on next year and to hopefully come up with concrete suggestions and ideas for improving our educational system.  So, formal or informal and equally important.

Naturally we are going to move to third discussion block of this summit.  I think all of you basically from the very beginning mentioned the investment, which goes in line with developing capacity of people to, various sources.

That is something we are going to discuss in the next, a little bit less than an hour.  We have excellent colleagues joining us.  I believe many of us we know each other and let me start, please, with asking ‑‑ I believe it will be Youth Argentina IGF to, give her inputs about how can we develop capacity and Internet Governance when next generation of leaders and experts?  What exactly needs to be done in Argentina that we have the next generation of leaders and experts?

>> EILEEN: Thank you very much it's a pleasure to be here with you.  I hope you can hear me well.  So the topic that is making us together to get‑together today ‑‑ tongue tied.  So the participants using the decision‑making process is very essential that youth can be part of that process.  In my country, I see that there is inclusion of youth in companies not in critical places like the process of builds related to Internet Governance matters.  It's also a challenge we need to address urgently and be part of local initiatives working on IG matters they should have a quota with the support of government and citizen scientists so we can be sure we are taken into consideration by the local decision makers. 

I think very interesting point that was raised yesterday that I forgot to mention, I'm part of the Steering Committee and also part of the Youth Authority.  And there was one point I think it's important to bring with you.  It was been a necessity of having more programs like the Internet Society, youth ambassadors and happy we have a lot of colleagues from that program.  And it's very essential that the point to have focus on leadership while we are building this program because young people should be equipped to be the next generation leaders and the leaders of today.  And about, in my country and Argentina, I want to mention I was part of the Global Citizens silo.  I organized that.  And we organized like three weeks ago where we have the opportunity to discuss in today's different topics related to Internet Governance and that process of collective deliberation we can see is very important to have a lot of people involved, not just some experts.  So we can see that that is the way to go.  Because it is relevant to us taking into consideration after all of that discussion that we hear from colleagues that we have experience and knowledge to share and we should be a key part of the process.

So basically on the intervention, I think it's very important that youth can be involved and can create a profound change in the Internet Governance system.  Because in having an influence in our societies and in the Internet Governance environment, it's a way to achieve more inclusive societies and I think that is all for myself.

>> ANJA:  Thank you for that.  Very concrete proposal. Very interesting.  Let's talk about Europe and Asia.  I don't know who is with us.  Let me just double check.  Is it Sonia or her colleague?  If colleagues show up, please take the floor.  But I would like us to move now to the African Youth IGF.  I believe Keith is with us.

>> KEITH: I'm right here.

>> ANJA: Please tell us, African continent is the youngest continent and biggest population.  So what is critical?  What is important to develop capacity and Internet Governance across the countries of the continent?  What are the challenges and what kind of investment the countries, societies need on that continent in order to make sure that we have experts knowledgeable about Internet Governance?

>> KEITH: Thank you very much who are joining today.  I think youth participation and decision‑making process is very important because for the longest time youth participation and policy‑making processes if testifies define that, I would say it's an action‑oriented process involving young people and have institutions and initiatives and positions and funding them ‑‑ affording them control of our resources that effect their lives.  So therefore youth participation includes efforts by young people to organize around issues of their choice, by adults or the grownups to involve young people in community agencies and by youth and doubts join together and I think that is where for me, the critical aspects come in.  The aspect of intergenerational co‑leading efforts.  And then Africa perspective, I think one of the key issues that young people struggling with is the issue of capacity.  The issue to ‑‑ the capacity to articulate key issues of Internet Governance, to bringing key messages in a way that responds to policymaker language.

Since we started off the Africa Youth IGF, during the launch, we had the Deputy Claire person of the African Union and this speaks volumes on how youth are being regarded on the continent it nerves of trying to provide a space for young people to co‑lead different processes and those of policy formulation and decision‑making.  Why have seen a number of initiatives that are borne out of this this year.  Three initiatives in three different countries borne out of this process.  Uganda and Manibia and Zambia.  And some of the countries gone ahead to implement this, more critically, getting that link and connection between what young people are doing in day‑to‑day lives and especially those in ICT‑related fields.  Internet Governance from our area, young people who are in line around CT, and by what they are doing day‑to‑day or because they are tech savvy and therefore they see themselves as important stakeholder.  But most specifically we are living out many young people who are not necessarily within the Internet term or ICT space and this needs to continue to find ways of bringing young people in different fields into this kind of space and build capacity to actually articulate themselves properly.  That is where the big disconnect is.  Allowing young people not in this space to speak.

The involvement of young people and youth specifically in the decision‑making process and discussion can lead to better positions and outcomes and we have seen these through various IGF processes and the young people are making, very key and very solid and very futuristic.  So participation promotes involvement of young people, strengthens their commitment to an understanding of the Human Rights in a democracy and provides them a formal protection allowing them to take part in decision‑making processes. 

So looking forward for me specifically, I think I see self-organized youth activities for digital corporation that speaks to the five sets of accommodation that it talks about.  Building inclusive Digital Economy and Society, develop Human Rights and institutional capacity, protect Human Rights and human agency, protect digital trust, security and stability, global digital cooperation.

When you look at five sets of recommendations, the future of these recommendations are young people.  So I would like to see more young people taking the driver's seat as far as pushing for these recommendations and implementation on the continent.  On the continent we have an initiative with the AU to support Internet Governance processes and we hope that majority or most of the resources out of this will go to supporting the young people in Youth IGF initiatives because technically, those are the breeding grounds for next experts.

So as I conclude, I think looking forward, I see trailblazers, I see leading experts, I see youth initiatives are very key players in IG processes.  I also see a community in IGF forums way below the National IGFs, because when you talk about National IGF, it becomes an elitist group in the sense these are young people within the cities but we know that youth are not homogeneous.  We have youth who are literate, who drop out of schools, we have youth in urban areas, other areas and as my colleague just spoke about, issues of devices and issues of infrastructure, again that creates a gut in terms of young people to effectively contribute to these spaces.

So I think going forward, out of all of these programs that we have, great people and great young people and what they express, will continue to have more intimate spaces at community level to buildup and push for national conversations.  Thank you very much.

>> ANJA: Thank you, Keith.  You have outlined some very important aspects and especially one, which I have to say doesn't only relate to youth.  It really relates to also the participants that are coming to the IGF.  You will recall from 2018 that IGF in Paris and the call from Secretary General to involve those that are missing and marginalized that are not present additionally in our discussions space.  And mostly referring to inform those coming from all areas, especially those that are underrepresented.  I think that also relates to young people.  You're completely right.  In our community, we don't see enough philosophers.  We don't see enough anthropologists.  Medical staff is missing for instance, especially we are discussing health issues within the high‑level. 

Many topics will relate to other sessions because of the pandemic to how digital can help us to overcome this, and we are missing, like for example, that community.  So I think it's extremely important to speak about inclusion from a magmatic point of view, not to speak also about the countries that are underrepresented or in a local level, the cities or communities that are underrepresented, because usually I noticed that the meetings are concentrated in the capitals, also a huge problem for inclusion.

But it is very good we are aware and we have recognized that and it will give us opportunity to further work on it.  With that, I would like now us to move to the Ukraine IGF.  So here we share the same concerns.

>> VALARIA:  Hello.  And thank you very much for this opportunity I will try to be very brief.  My name is Valaria, from Ukraine, the Moderator of IGFUA.  We have already carried off our third Youth IGF in Ukraine.  It was fully on line due to the pandemic situation and despite this fact we were away, we were really together mentally and I want to underline that I'm really proud that today I have already heard great thoughts and in general reconcile with the messages which we discussed during our Youth IGF.

As all distinction shown, youth want to be heard and want their choice to be taken into consideration.  We want to be engaged in different processes from just discussion to decision‑making.  And at the same time, Ukranian youth is not fully aware of their opportunities.

In Ukraine we have a lot of different NGOs trying to promote Internet Governance issues as Human Rights and Cyber Security many, many others.  But at the same time, there is no community network or any kind of single point which would connect all the elements to work together, to be better but at the same time to be one big team.

In Ukraine, we are for lack of corporation between different stakeholders in the context of youth involvement.  Of course it is difficult and hard to just start multi‑stakeholder dialogue in some processes but we need to start this series of steps and encourage everyone to be more proactive.  Every stakeholder can bring in something helpful.  And by the way, this is interesting that many young people during our Youth IGF mentioned that they want our governance, our mental sector to be more proactive and engage in them in IGF processes through some kind of fair and open platform that will bring different stakeholders together on equal basis.  And I think that this could work.  Talking about future in general, I'm sure that Ukranian youth is already ‑‑ is ready to bring themselves together for digital cooperation, fortunately we can train due to pandemic, we have to be over the line and unfortunately, everyone has stable access to the Internet or Internet connectivity at all; even during our Youth IGF, we had such cases when Panelists were disconnected due to poor connect activity and this is the issue which can be solved only with support of government and businesses and this is only one point to many different others like digital education.

And again, I had my way of thanking for successful future.  We need to put our efforts together and this puts this efforts need to be treated equally.  Thank you very much.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  Excellent inputs you share the concerns and the vision with other colleagues that share the inputs as well.  I would like us to conclude this more formal part of this second and last block with the Indian Youth IGF.  They are hosted ‑‑ a few days ago was your Annual Meeting?  I was there for a part of time and it was fascinating, amazing work there.

>> Thank you, Anja.  Greetings everyone.

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-- raise awareness of youth on Internet Governance and increase young generations to participate in Public Policy discussions and achieve build on new Internet leaders so they are engaged beyond Internet Governance.  India has a population of 1.3 billion.  The overall is 86 persons but the rural is 60 person.

There is a large population of India is yet to reap the benefits of Internet.  Further because of the pandemic, the classes shifted on line, businesses also shifted on line so Internet has now become critical for survival and will provide equal opportunities for everyone in the country.

So 65 persons in India are 35-year olds and necessary and critical to India section in the governance of the Internet.  Both are interesting issues that concern them and also interesting issue of Internet Governance for the benefit of our country.  The unique set of experiences and requirements that youth need to be incorporated into the policies and regulations in our Internet Governance.

So to build capacity, we organized a first annual for 2018.  We organized in 2019 as well.  So one was physical single events during the two events and the multi‑stakeholder of decision‑making.  Safeguards on the Internet and opportunities for the youth to engage and contribute in this way.

This year we organized the event virtually from 20 October to 1 November and we incorporated teams of the UNIGF where topics covering in addition like mental health and Internet, such as the psychological and environmental sustainability and ICT.

The 2020 fellows to a multi‑stakeholder format of discussion for proposed policy and recommendations on the issue of censorship and the rights to Freedom of Expression in India.  In addition to the annual events, we have organized webinars to discuss prominent topics of IGF.  This year we collaborated to organize a capacity building workshop youth advocacy weekend, where we aimed at empowering the youth with skill sets of effective advocacy and focus on policy making and Internet Governance.

So what are the challenges that we have come across during this process of capacity building?  So the first one is diversity.  Since India is a multi‑lingual country, how do we connect with the Internet and users and the prospective Internet and users who speak languages other than English?  And how do we connect with the population of India?

Second challenge, physically bringing people a challenge because of the costs involved and challenge of availability and access to Internet.  A lot of areas have spoken about this concern.  Then sustainable IGF engagement.

So during the three years we felt that Internet Governance is a phenom that is so thinking on the lines of coming up with post engagement that converse linguistic and rural inclusion recommendations and solutions.  Preparing positions and engaging with key decision makers.

So the youth need to provide the energy to bring this change in India and beyond.  A strong corporation between the stakeholders is the way to go.  I mean it's very important to engage non‑youth in the forums and the discussions that we have because it's important for them to understand the dialogues and discussions that the youth have and for them to understand the odd vision of Internet Governance.  Thank you.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  Thank you for bringing the concept of corporation, which is very important.  I have given earlier today the same example as you mention now the corporate project by the IGF and Indian Youth IGF.  So just excellent.  Very impressive and I think that is that concrete Best Practice that we can all do with ‑‑ and it's possible to do it what creates those connections.  With that, I would like to conclude this formal part of this section on capacity development and now open the floor for everyone.

I want to hear your views, what you do think is needed to build capacity of young people to be integrated meaningfully in discussions and Internet Governance and also in the decision‑making processes?  And another layer of that of course is what is needed to build capacity of young people to be able to maximize the opportunities that the Internet can give to all of us?  So two important questions.  It would be good if your response could be concrete.  What exactly, or maybe if you already had good things to share, rather than just going through generic statements as I think we need concrete examples to inspire us to follow them.  I think there is somebody that would like to take the floor.  That would be Daphne.  You have the floor.

>> DAPHNE: I also saw that Sergei was asking it before me so maybe you want to give him the floor first.

>> ANJA: Sorry, Sergei.  That was very kind of you Daphne.  So Sergei, you can speak and then we have Daphne.  Let me see if you are on mute.

>> SERGEI: Yes, can you hear me?

>> ANJA: I'm sorry.  Okay.  I think we can hear you now.

>> SERGEI: Thank you.  Thank you for giving the floor to me.  My name is Sergei Romanov from Russian Federation.  I would like to share two main things about the developing capacity.  Unfortunately, the youth stakeholder group isn't growing as fast as we would desire, although there are many really interested, versatile young people open to everything new.  The first theme I would like to mention of the basis of my experience of participation in both Regional and Global IGFs is that the voices of young people aren't heard enough yet in the process of policy making and Internet Governance.  Young people should be given the opportunity to express their opinions, to speak out on the initiatives of brilliant national and International organizations, to organize channels and change of expert information with more experienced holders.  Yes, there are programs that involve the youth in global processes such as youth ambassadors programs, newcomers programs, fellowship programs, and so on.  All of them implied personal initiative of young participants to find ways to enter such programs and this is not a very effective approach since despite the desire of young people to work in such a program.  Not all of them have the perseverance and persistence to answer them.

Organizers of such programs should interact with universities, conducting lectures and IG providers and provide financials and development Internet Governance in such a way N this way, encourage youth to attend and to bring contribution to Internet Governance discussion.  I strongly believe that national youth IG schools are a positive step in attracting young people to IG movement and they definitely should be organized.  This year, I took part in Russian IG school along with other young people from both Russia and other Russian‑speaking CIS countries.  And it was great experience.  I received new knowledge that I can successfully use in the future activities.

I improved my current competencies and the level of digital literacy.  I met real professionals in their field who made me look at the Internet in a new way and the second thing is that everything that is happening now in regard to the regulation of the Internet, the global and local levels, will determine the life of the next generation in many ways in almost all areas.  Those people who participate in the ongoing process will have to gradually step back from their positions and transfer them to young professionals in order to transfer smoothly.

Youth should be involved as early as possible in IG processes.  To do this, it is necessary to study this area and take part in relevant events and I think the main task of the senior generation is to organize such events and provide various types of support.  Thank you for listening.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much, Sergei.  Very good points.  I'm glad you mentioned the schools of Internet Governance and there are many, including myself as well, really see that as an excellent entry point for meaningful capacity development and entering this field as an expert.  Daphne, please you have the floor now.

>> DAPHNE: Thank you.  I think I want to build upon the points that Sergei made and I also want to link it back to the discussion we have been having since the beginning.  Because I realize that location is very important to create knowledge regarding IG and regarding leadership.  How can young people make our voices heard and how can they start projects and have inference on their field?  Also from the different disciplines as you saw in the chat earlier, ourselves being discussed.  I think this is important that it takes place on schools curriculums and throughout the different IG schools and to all the different projects.

I think for now at this moment, we should not wait until those projects are started until it happens.  We should advocate and we can already start it ourselves and prove or show a good example that something like this can definitely be set up.  So I think that Youth IGF should definitely think about how they can help with further education and also if people are not involved in the field, so they can get to know the field.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much.  Very good points.  I'm also following the chat and I see someone needs to leave and thank you very much for being with us and I know it must be very late or early for you if you are home.

I want to say that we are very fortunate, I think this year, to have opportunity to really discuss all together what could be the ‑‑ improving conditions for better integration in the Internet Governance ecosystem and to communicate that to the next year's host country.  At the beginning, I didn't tell you.

In addition to the Minister that you heard at the very beginning, there are a couple of colleagues that are with us on this call, some of them probably you know.  We have been spending so much time together over these past couple of months with consultations and I have a few things pending next year given ambition and plans that the host country has in terms of investment in young people for next year preparing for IGF in Poland.

So colleagues and some of the names you know, such as Monica, Marta, Anna, Shannon, some of the Youth Polish IGF, which I'm not going to name because I know they will take the floor very soon.  But let's maybe now ‑‑ I'm going to ask the Youth Polish IGF colleagues to come in just to give a reflection of everything that we heard so far.  We have different requirements but they all facility to one goal, better, easier integration to Internet Governance and easier way to learn more about the Public Policy.  So what are your views and what can you, as a host, tell these people next year to maybe offer to respond to those requests?

>> MARTA:  Hi.  I would like to share the presentation with you if it is okay.  I will share my screen.

>> ANJA: Let me see whether you can.

>> MARTA:  Welcome and everyone my name is Marta and I'm also from IGF Poland and I'd like to introduce you to our recently‑formed action plan provided by me and the rest of our Steering Committee.  And will so what we feel are the most important issues according to what you already said and our impressions to tackle with upcoming years of the Internet Society development.  So without extending our Polish chapter has been created just this year with the Polish min stir of digital and the Commissioner of the Research Institute.  For now we consist of three members as I mentioned.  And the council, the Members of the IGF of Poland, are about 20 people right now.  By our initiative, we primarily aim to rise the awareness of young people about various aspects of the Internet facilities and help them understand the most urgent issues that needs to be tackled.  With our generation, maybe you all agree about some people already mentioned that we should take matters into our own hands and participate much as possible in designing possible Internet Governance. 

So our first goal is to build local ‑‑ we would like to gain a platform in the country to exchange views on this situation.  We like it to the problem of young people and the Internet.  At the same time, we want to open up to the whole community of young people in Europe.  As the group from the next year's host country, we aim to create an Open Forum for the exchange of experiences and use among both young people and experts from different regions and backgrounds.  So now I'd like to pass the floor to Amelia.

>> AMELIA: Thank you very much for the perfect introduction.  And I hope that you can hear me well.  So, now I would like to tell our plans for the next year.  So as Marta mentioned, one of our goals is integration.  And we would like to see it on two levels.  The first is the original one.  Our aim is to strengthen the IGF structure in Poland.  We already have about 20 members of our team but we want to take it further.  And the second level is introduce people from other parties of the world and other initiatives and other ideas who cooperate to join the dialogue and to establish context with us because we really would like to hear voices in the process of preparing to the next IGF 2021.  Because what we believe in is knowledge acquisition, like we don't want to start the dialogue from scratch during the next year.  We really want to take part in the discussion that we already have this year because there has been so many breakpoints already made during that year's IG.

And this Summit.  We heard a lot of great overviews of what is going on in the different countries in different parts of the world and also during the last year's IGF, there were perfect mess annuals.  So this is very important to make it go harder and not to start from the very beginning because there has been a great work already made.  So that's why we believe in the knowledge acquisition, that in analyzing this year's topics, and issues that has already appeared and are going to appear during this year's IGF and to take them to the IGF 2021.

Another important thing for us is gather as many points of views as possible because diversity is the key.  And it has been mentioned a lot of times today.  And I can't agree more with that.  Internet is global.  So if we want to find solutions, if we want to have or create universal messages as young people, we need to have all the voices on the table, all perspectives.  Because it is the only way we can have this wide perspective of how to tackle with different kinds of problems, how to find the solutions.  So that is what it will be important for us to have this type of use, that every voice will be incorporated.

Also, we would like to make it our focal point to work out ways how to make impossible, to involve decision makers in the process to invite them to help us and also to support us in what we would like to introduce in the Internet Governance work; because it is something very significant that we as a people can be included in the decision‑making process.  And in creating policies.  And even we can become decision makers ourselves.  So that's why we would like to create this space, this platform to the discussion.  We are not discussing of that ever summit or after this IGF.  But we will continue to have this conversations to share these ideas within the next few months that we have until the next IGF.  And about the more specific plans for IGF, I will tell you later and now I will give the floor to my friend who is talking about topics we would like to focus on.

>> SERGEI: Of course, yes, we don't want to act against the evidence.  So first of all, thank you for IGF to make a consultation with youth people.  So we can see how to build a strategy that could be evidence‑based and we see here that the most important thing now is access and digital inclusion.  I think it's some kind of false problem that we are dealing now with this COVID‑19.  That is all of our activities on line and even importantly we see that for example when we are trying to do this, there are some teachers that have connection or for example, those living with their parents and only have one computer to access the Internet.  So even in Poland, we have problem with access and digital inclusion.

So we talk about this.  We want to make discussion about this.  Also we want to discuss about the digital education.  We know that it is also the topic for IGF.  And we also want to make a place for other stuff, for other subjects that are urgent and I think we have here on this presentation this picture, the most important things that you trusted that your people chose for us to prepare for this meeting next year.

So, we want to prepare the place where you have discussion about this stuff.  And more activities that we prepare for next year, that will be now continued, this subject.

>> AMELIA:  Thank you.  So I will just give you a quick overview of what our transaction will be.  So the first one is networking day; because we really would like to have this one day before the IGF itself, that will be dedicated totally to young people.  And will be both opportunity for them to get to know each other, to network, but also to get some guidance on how to move in the IGF environment.  Because we all know that IGF can be a bit overwhelming, especially if you're the newcomer and even if you are not first time, there is so much stuff going around in the same time that really you need to get lost.  So that is why we would like to have this day when young people can discuss, they can network or have some networking.  They can express ideas.  We will also sum up these previous mass of dialogue we will have.  Also, we would like to make it an opportunity to gather new skills or some knowledge and we would like to figure some panels with experts engaged in the Internet and technology or maybe also other sectors.  So, that is why we would like to have this is a to just to make young people feel self-confident during the IGF.

Also after that, we would like to create the space during the IGF itself where young people can meet and they can exchange their impressions, their thoughts, after IGF sessions and they will attend or maybe recommend to each other which sessions are for attending or maybe get some support if they need it.  So, that's why we would like to introduce the practice of ‑‑ of the IGF where young people can make and just grab a coffee or snack have a discussion about what is going on on IGF.

And what we see is the final conclusion of these all process is preparing rapport, which would include the statement that conclusions we will reach during the process, during the prepare Tory process and during the IGF itself.

So we will really like to invite all of you to cooperate with us both on preparing the event, because at the end, we are very open to hear your ideas to, hear your voices if you have some suggestions, contact us.  We are very open to hear them.  So don't hesitate because we really want the summit and the preparatory process and creating this to make it up to you, because we find it's really important that as I said before, all the voices are heard and no one is left behind and everybody will feel this is something that they want to take part in.  So now I will give the floor again away and he will say something more about important issuers connected with this process.

>> ANJA:  Okay.  Once again, thank you, Amelia.  As I said, we know that now there are subject to discuss and we also know that all IGF around the world have some ‑‑ they own strategies, long term strategies that they want to build some knowledge, some community, and to do some ideas.  So our idea is to look to the subject of Internet, to talk about possibilities that you can give us to build new, interesting and peaceful places for living.  We are talking here about smart cities and all their possibilities that the Internet give us to build such places.  But, this is a long‑term strategy.  We want to get know to prepare, to try to make the community that will also want to talk about this fix.  We know that for our global community now, there are subject that we need to discuss now.  And this is for us.  We understand this problem.  So this is only our idea for strategy.  Marta?

>> MARTA: So as I can see our screen time is running out, so we would like to thank our supporters so thanks to those who helped us with managing the governance forum for International aspects as well as the policy issues and research that support us in every really activity we decide to take up.  And according to what Amelia already said, and what I have said in the beginning of our presentation, we would like to invite all of the IGF members both young people and also some seniors, because senior experience is always the best knowledge for us.  The best possible and widely‑open for everyone, for every voice for the next year.  And if you have any questions or concerns or ideas so far, feel free to say it out loud right now or contact us through our social media platforms and we hope to see you in Poland in 2021.  Thank you very much.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much for this program it's incredible you're already prepared and ready for something that is going to come at the end of the next year.  So very impressive, which means we expect really an impressive organization and implementation of this program.

I think we are all very fortunate to be able to have opportunities to start cooperating with you much earlier than it is in a traditional setup of IGF preparations for the Annual Meeting, and that is one benefit of this COVID‑19 that we had opportunity to work with you for two years, not just one.  With that, let me give for the last time, the floor.  I do encourage also our senior colleagues.  I especially thank so many deer colleagues that were exchanging inputs with you and Chad.  I seen my colleagues, Lianna, Jennifer, Roberto and other names ‑‑ sorry, I wasn't there all the time carefully following.  But the names that I mention now work a lot with young people.  They are developing many capacity development projects.  They are work resulted in many young people being equipped.  I'm glad ‑‑ I think it was Lianna who mentioned about the Internet Governance school and the applications coming from teachers.  I think that is one of the critical messages that some of you said during the second block when we were discussing the education that the investment shouldn't just focus on students in whichever stage of education, but it really needs to focus as well on our mentors, especially those that came from traditional systems.  We need to make sure that we are all on the same page with same conditions in this digital ecosystem.  So I don't see any hands or request for the floor.

The questions in the chat are most valuable.  I want to tell you two things.  When Mr. Marek Zagórski was mentioning his team, his team has a number of wonderful colleagues, almost like family to us because we worked so intensively this year and continuing to work next year, and they were with us the entire time.  They are in charge for implementing and supporting youth engagement next year.  I know that Anna is here.  I have seen also colleagues from other areas and of course you heard from the colleagues of the youth Polish IGF.

I'm going to give the floor now to Anna, and Anna is going to summarize what we have been discussing and provide an overview of what are we looking for in IGF next year.  Thank you.

>> ANNA: Thank you very much.  For those we haven't met yet, my name is Anna and I'm part of the IGF 2021 team here at the Ministry of Digital Affairs who in the meantime, became a part of the Chancellor Prime Minister.  So we were really upgraded here in Poland.  And it was very, very interesting.  I had made a lot of notes.  A lot. 

So I have many ideas.  And it was really interesting to listen to your per suspect and I was Best Practices and your worries and to your best examples and there is nothing for me to not to agree that the pandemic chose how important the global access to the Internet is, especially in the sense of an education, in order to let us continue the education.  I'm a mother of three small kids so I know what it meant to go in line and how the access to the Internet, but also to simple to have free at home.  How it was important actually.  And then us working with my husband at home and it was really ‑‑ it was really different experience. 

So, I believe that for all of you also, having education, it was really different.  And difficult.  Also we have the education 4.0 is already.  I'm very happy so many of you, they raise the subject of the Polish IGF concentrating on that.  I really like the idea that the educators and educatee, they have to work together, which also all agreed today and there is nothing I cannot say about this has to be achieved and the reciprocities and have to have access to the resources.  It's very important.

Young people have to be involved in the education process.  That's for sure.  And there was also the issue of ‑‑ which is important in every part of the world.  Upscaling is needed.  In my opinion it's not only because it will speed up the process of development and technology but also because of the development of different technologies which are taking place like a block chain and we all know that there will be new hundreds existing which will need new skills and they will replace in many ways, the old and simply outdated skills.

So we also have to be prepared.  The other people, let's say, but also ‑‑ older people.  And also young people who are entering into the market, labor market.

So I was very happy also to hear that so many of you would like to involve in the dialogue of the government.  We are very open for the discussion.  I would like to invite you also taking the occasion to the flash session with us, which will take place next week.  So please come.  If you have vague ideas, please tell.  Let's speak about them.  If you have concrete steps to be taken, please also share.  Let's meet next weekend and speak.  At this point, I would like to ‑‑ I will finish.  I hope we will have the possibility to be healthy for the meeting into next year.  Thank you very much once again for so many of you coming and I hope to see you all next week so we can discuss in entirety on the next steps to be taken next year.  Thank you very much.

>> ANJA: Thank you very much Anna.  I think we are really looking forward to the next year.  What we have seen from the program and the enthusiasm and dedication from the team is very promising and looking forward.  Thank you very much to all the speakers, to all the participants, everyone that were actively participating through the chat.  Thank you to the floor.  Huge, huge thank you.  This has been a result of your work, actually, your hard work for the past couple of months through the consultations.  I also want to thank you for responding to all the surveys.  Too many probably e‑mails from me and other colleagues.  But it was for such a good cause.  This summit has revealed some new aspects, gave new ideas to all of us that are enthusiastic to contribute as much as we can within our capacity to build and strengthen engagement of young people and Internet Governance.

With that, I think we are quite short on time.  Really impressive on all sides the time management.  Usually when we have these types of sessions we go over time.  I think we are shy one minute.  Can I ask you for one favor?  I'm going to take a screenshot if you could turn your cameras on for a few seconds and I'm going to send you this photograph.  If I don't send, please remind me.  And I do advise that you also take a screenshot because I can be very clumsy.