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DC Coordination Meeting XIII

15 September 2020, 14:00-15:00 UTC

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The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during a DC Coordination virtual call. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 

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   >> MARKUS KUMMER: It's top of the hour, but let's wait another minute or two. We're still waiting for some more people to join the call.
   Welcome you all to this call. It's been a long time since our last call mainly due to the fact that Lima who has provided secretary support, her stay has finished with the IGF secretary and she moved back to Afghanistan and someone else has taken over from her. I'm sure some of you know her already, Sam Dickinson. She has been around for many years and has also worked for the IGF secretary before a previous IGF meetings. But I would like to ask Sam to introduce herself and also discuss a little bit what she has been doing and the plan she has for actually improving the support the secretary at can provide. Sam, over to you.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: Greetings at midnight from me here in Brisbane to everyone. I've had a week with Lima to take on the responsibilities for the DC support. Unfortunately it happened to coincide with all the IGF communications work taking off so we didn't have as much time to do it as I had wished. One of the things that I will be trying to do is because there is no existing back documentation about how to provide support I will do that so the next person that takes it on has guidelines about what to do. I'm also creating well the secretary has created and when I learn how to use it I will start using a roller count DC admin. I will use it to communicate with everyone. That means that the next time someone comes on board they will be able to see the history of communications with you instead of what's happening now is I don't have access to any of that communications with Lima.
    You may also notice that I am starting to update some of the web pages. The DC pages are in some very obscure HTML so I am trying to fix that. So, some of you have asked for updates to your pages. It may take a little while because it's not just me making a minor change I'm actually going through and stripping out all the strange things to it is easier for the next person to take on because it is going to be standardized HTML.
    Anything else, I should say, Markus, that I need to explain?
    (No response)
    Apparently not.
    So I'm here to support you. My main function with the IGF this year is communications which is useful for the DCs because, you know, I am also available for your-- communications is my expertise. But I'm also here as a DC support in a more administrative role as well. So, you know, I can help you in both ways. Hopefully that is useful.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you, Sam. That was I had asked a second question but I realized I was on mute but you had already answered that. I think it's good to know that we fit into your communications work for the IGF. So, that's good.
    Now I wonder are there any of the DC coordinators present have questions to you Sam?
   >> Markus, if I may suggest that probably Sam is also not familiar yet with the [inaudible] of the dynamics [inaudible] who are on the call. So, just ask to have a very, very quick round of introduction. Just saying your name and which dynamic coalition you are representing on this call. I do think that will help us as well. And thanks to Sam for that brilliant introduction. I do think you're really supportive to dynamic relations.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. Excellent idea, Jutta. Can we start going through the list from the top down. I see you on the top of the list and then I see John Carr. John?
   >> JOHN: It's John Carr here. I am with the child protection children's coalition which is administered by EGPA international which is a global NEO based in Bangkok Thailand. Although I'm British with an Irish passport as well by the way and based in London.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you, John. Then well Brenda why don't you introduce yourself as well.
   >> CAPTIONER: I am sorry but I don't have a microphone while I'm writing. Brenda is not unmuting herself maybe she is having difficulties but it's good to know we have the support of the captionist and this is paid by the captioning for the dynamic coalition by the IGT support association. We have a special fund for captioning for helping people with disabilities. And captioning is a great asset to them.
    There's another John on my list. Is that John Carr twice or is that another John?
   >> JOHN: Must be another John. Unless I logged in twice which is possible and that may explain the echo.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: That may well be the echo.
   (Laughter).  
   Then we go to Judith please.
   >> Hi. I'm representing the dynamic coalition on the accessibility on disabilities. And so thankful to be on the call today. I look forward to learning more about what everyone is doing on the runup to the IGF. Thanks.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. June Paris next.
   >> Hello everyone. This is June Paris. I'm representing two dynamic coalitions. One is SITS. The small island group. Then also the IRPC with Michael. Thank you.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: And maybe to acronyms are always difficult. Sam who is new to this and she has seen all the papers but may not remember the acronyms.
   >> The internet rights and principals. And the SIDs is the small island development states.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Yes, thank you.
    Next on the list is Mary. And please excuse my bad pronunciation.
   >> Hello everyone. Thank you very much. The pronunciation was perfect actually. My name is Mary. I'm representing the youth coalition int internet government or YCRG. I am a human rights attorney for Armenia but at the moment I'm based in the US as a university candidate with the law school. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Sam.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you, Mary. Michael is next.
   >> MICHAEL: Hi everyone. So, first of all, so many things to say. First of all, Markus, Brenda can't speak while she is captioning because she doesn't have a microphone. So, that's why she couldn't say anything. But to everyone else, hi, I'm Michael Oghia. I am here renting the rising principals coalition as well as one of the newest dynamic coalitions which is the dynamic coalition on the sustainability of journalism and news media. It is a mouthful. But DC sustainability is a shorthand. Sam, I'm very happy to help you get acclimated as much as I can. Sam is one of my oldest friends within the IG world. She was one of the people that was so welcoming and kind when I first joined. So, very happy to see you here, Sam. And thank you so much for being on the call with us so late. I will shut up now so would that we can get off as soon as we can and let you go to bed.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you, Michael. And also for explaining why Brenda wasn't able to speak. I should have thought of it myself. My bad.
    And last but not least is Valencia.
   >> It's always the longest name on the list. Hello everyone and thank you very much for the opportunity to do a quick introduction around welcome and thank you for the introduction, Sam. This is Valencia from the International Association of Library associations representing the dynamic coalition on public access and libraries.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. Short and snappy. And I have to say your dynamic coalition has always been very well all dynamic relations are very serious but you have always been very constructive and very precise and with a very clear mission.
   >> Thank you so much. That's so kind of you.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: And, with that, can I hand it back to Jutta for guiding us through this substantive agenda. Please.  Thank you.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Thank you, Markus, for giving me the floor and inviting me to moderate the call.
    The first point in our agenda is an update from the last MAG call. And I can report that during the last four to five weeks the MAG has intensified their work a bit. We had also in between the two weeks scheduled additional meetings just to keep up with the pace that we are running up to the IGF. And so you can explain there are lots of things to be considered and to be set up to make this a real success.
    During the last call we spent a lot of time discussing a flowchart that was produced by Sam together with Anrett as I know detailing what was expected from session organizers in regard of preparing for the session and then also reporting from the session in order to get as much output as possible out of these virtually held workshop sessions.
    Having said that, I would like to hand back to Sam for a minute so that she just can explain what was the idea of this flowchart and what would it mean to the dynamic coalitions to understand what is expected from them as well as organizers of their own dynamic coalition session but also joined organizers of the main session of the dynamic coalitions.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: Please bear with me one moment while I look through the five million document is have so I can share it on the screen. I'm still looking for it. One moment. It's not showing up. This is why people you should not have too many open documents. I cannot find it. I actually did open it. I know I opened it. Let me just try once more. Sorry, I apologize for the delay. While I'm looking for this I'll kind of give you a bit of an explanation.
    So what we're trying to do for this year's IGF is well there's two issues in terms of what we're trying to do with outputs. One is because this is an online meeting, it's harder for everyone to be able to follow the two weeks of sorry, I'm still trying to open this document. It does not want to open. Maybe I can do it as a Power Point presentation. I do apologize for this.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Sam, I could try to share my screen. I have it open.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: I can just give you the permissions. That would be fantastic. Okay. Now you can do it. Sorry about that.
    So one of the issues is that with two weeks of events it's going to be harder for people to be able to follow everything. Particularly because some of the days are very long. The other issue is a longer strategy regarding how to strengthen IGF outputs. It dates back to the working group on improving the IGF. It's the UN secretarygeneral's high-level panel on digital cooperation. The UN host add retreat a couple of years ago, maybe a bit longer about how to strengthen the IGF. So this document is an attempt to look at all the different processes that are happening at this particular IGF and seeing how can we find a way to get linkages between things, to find synergies and leading to a final output. So, I do apologize for the small font as I did to the MAG who had to see this very small font as well. If you want to see a copy of this I sent it to the MAG mailing list so you can look there. It would be in a September of the MAG mailing list.
    The concept is to build on what we did last year for the IGF which is to make it a bit clearer where documentation and outputs are coming from. So, are they directly from sessions? Are they from the host government or, in this case, the UN DESA. From the IGF secretary trying to put together so sort of synthesis of information. Are they coming from the parliamentarians. That's what this document is trying to represent.
    In coordination with the MAG chair who put out a paper a month or so ago about how we could try and find a highlevel structure for discussion at the IGF to help those who aren't deep in the weeds understand what is happening. The concept that we've got is that we will produce a premeeting guide that will come out in early October as a draft. They'll comment then we'll put out a final draft just before the IGF. What we'll be doing in that guide is an analysis of the various workshops that are coming on the four major things plus the fifth one which is kind of the digital cooperation concept and trying to find some highlevel policy concepts and questions that can help other sessions as well as the workshops find some cohesion across sessions. And that will then eventually lead to the final outcome document.
    So here you will see that we have some DCs. I am still trying to understand the various outputs that you have so this would be fantastic to know exactly on this call or later if you want to contact me how the documentation can be channeled from the DCs into the final output document that will come out closer to the end of the year.
    In terms of what you as individual DCs can do, in your meeting reports we have a new field that we will be inserting called "key takeaways." And if you have been in a session where people said like in a tweet how would you describe what we just discussed or whatever. So we want that sort of information. In a tweet or two what is that session about, what do you want the rest of the community to know. So those are the sorts of kind of like bitesized information that we can help create a combined synchronized document at the end as well as the incredible wealth of individual outputs from different sessions.
    Can I just go to the second page, Jutta.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Yes of course.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: Thanks.
    So this one is kind of a description of what I just talked about. The concept is that we have all of these different inputs coming in. And we have this high-level guide before the IGF. And that hopefully can then help sessions find linkages between each other. So, yes, different sessions will be discussing their own issues, but they'll be encouraged to look at some of the highlevel policy concepts and questions that will be in that premeeting guide so at the end we can create the final outcome document.
    I think I'll stop there and I guess I'll ask if anyone has questions. Because it is very complex. No questions? I'll hand it back to Jutta.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Thank you. Then I'll stop sharing the screen or maybe I just go back to the first page again where you can see on the bottom of the graphic that the DC reports are going straight into the IGF 2020 final outcome document. So this means the DC reports from the dynamic coalition sessions. Of course, also the main session of the dynamic coalition will have a report that also goes into the draft final highlevel thematic messages if I've seen that right. Then goes in way of the public comments to the final outcome document. So, as dynamic relations we have two strands how we can bring our message into the outcome of the IGF 2020. I think that is important to bear in mind.
    I'll stop the screen sharing. With regard to our agenda, we are supposed to talk now about the main session of the dynamic coalitions. And I do think we have made little progress since we had our last dynamic coalitions call. So, it's really necessary to strengthen our efforts and try to get forward to the main session with our program. So, to have a proper announcement of the dynamics main session in the program for the IGF, also in order to invite people to make them interested in our main session, it's a bit unfortunate that [inaudible] is not with us today in this call because he had the first idea for our session and had produced the Google Doc where some of you at least had given some input to the session. And I would like to open up the floor to you to discuss how we can proceed towards a proper dynamic coalition main session description.
    We had invited you and we also had set a deadline to produce substantive papers that would help us to describe the connectedness between the dynamic coalition's individual work on the one hand and the overall theme that we had agreed to have for our main session which is more or less economic renewal after the pandemic crisis. What do we learn for our dynamic coalition work but also in general from the pandemic. How should we proceed with that and how would that contribute to a situation where dynamic coalitions have more impact on the achievement of the SCGs within the next years to come.
    As far as I know, some dynamic coalitions had already sent in the substantive papers. But due to the fact that there was not enough time to hand over from Lima to Sam that might have been lost, some of these substantive papers, so we would be very glad if those who have already produced substantive papers could just point that out yet and maybe resend them to Sam. And also those who have not yet been able to produce these papers, would you be able to do that within the next two weeks? That's the question I open up the floor now.
    Anybody who has something to say in this regard?
   >> JUDITH: Yeah. So, my question is can we get a list of what papers Sam has so that we don't overload her mailbox with sending duplicates?
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: That's easy. Judith, it's zero.
   >> Judith: Oh okay. So, no, because the DCAG submitted our papers. So, I didn't want to overload your already overloaded mailbox. Thanks.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: So maybe I put another question to you. Are all the participants today on this call a bearer of the Google Doc that [inaudible] set up and that some of you had been working on? The Google Doc for the dynamic coalitions’ main session.
   >> Can you repost the link please.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Yes I will so do. Just give me a second.
    I can also share the screen with you so that you can see it here. Just a second. Here is also the link. Okay so let me again... where is it. I think that's it. I'm scrolling to the top. So the title suggested, the draft working title was dynamic coalitions in socioeconomic renewal post pandemic. And the idea behind that was that, of course, all people working in dynamic coalitions in different working backgrounds, in different areas with different target groups and different objectives have had their individual experiences. What did work during the pandemic. How was your work affected by that. Did you need to intensify your work, for example, and considering their public access. I assume some people have not been able to make use of public access because of the lockdown while others may have been looking for public access and libraries because of the fact they don't have access proper access with proper bandwidth at home. So, each of these single experiences and learnings might contribute to such a session where we in the end could not only discuss how we could come out of the crisis but how we could adapt our future work to situations like the one that we have been facing for the last six months. And we will probably be facing for the next 6 to 12 months to come. That was the main idea for the session and I would be happy if you could discuss this further. We already have some questions that should be examined during the session but this is not the final version so we could expand that or amend with your input.
    I see at least some people sharing the document now. That's good.
    Eventually if you look at these issues that were named under the heading, post crisis regeneration, what could the IGF community do to be of help in causing quantum changes in the process of post pandemic renewal. By working through the IGF and other organizations at an elevated level to organize collaborative processes to design global solutions. So, if you could come on that within the session, this could be input and very useful content to phrase the outcomes of the IGF 2020. It could go into even the plans of the highlevel corporation panel. And it should also go if we can achieve that within the program in regards of the scheduling of the sessions, it could feed into the highlevel session that also deals with the pandemic and the consequences of the pandemic. So, we felt that it's important that dynamic coalitions contribute to that process. But feel free to comment on that. Feel free to say how you think this could work or not.
    Are you all muted? I can't hear anybody speak.
   >> Hi this is Meri. I just want to say that on behalf of ICIG that we really support the theme and the focus for decision. But my question is what are our next steps in terms of putting the session together. Because we are already in midSeptember. So that we can also plan our activities accordingly to make our input in the main session. Thank you.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Thank you, Meri, that is a very important question. And Sam and Markus and I had a precall before this meeting and we agreed to set another two weeks’ time as a deadline for preparing these substantive papers. We already have a template which can be sent out after our call by Sam to the dynamic coalitions list. Then we just need to take the decision that dynamic coalitions who haven't sent in a substantive paper by 29th of September which is in two weeks’ time, could not be considered to be part of the dynamic coalition's main session. Otherwise we won't be able to set up the session properly to decide who is a speaker and also to have a run through the session to know how we start and who will be speaking on behalf of the various dynamic coalitions.
    So those of you who have prepared the substantial paper I already heard from you, Judi, resend it to Sam. Those who have not yet please use the template. It is not a huge amount of work to prepare the substantive paper. And you will have from now on two weeks to prepare that. And then we will suggest that we have right after the deadline Sam and Markus and I will have a look at the substantive papers received until September 29th then we will prepare an outline for the session based on what we already have in the Google Doc. And then we suggest to have another call in the week starting with October 5th. But that would then definitely be the latest time that we can agree on the complete format of the agenda and the speakers for the session so that it's possible to announce it early enough for people to become aware of the session and probably decide they will take part.
    >> Hello this is June Paris. Thank you so much, Jutta. I've just sent an email to the chairs of my two groups I am representing to remind them about it and hopefully they'll will do that as soon as possible.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Thank you much, June.
    Okay do we have any further comments in this regard? If that's not the case, I will stop the screen sharing and going on with the agenda. Okay. Thank you, Sam. So, then we could go on with the dynamic relations news page. Again I hand it over to Samantha.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: This is just a very short one for me just to say the DC news page is available if you want to add any items to it. When there are new items on that page we include it in the IGF newsletter which I do hope people read. And the other thing that we can do is put out social media announcements about any activities that you have. So, as well as sending a news text, if you want something to be posted on the IGF social media sites, we can do that as well.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Any further questions? In regard to the news page. Sam, Judith has just written that you are very feint. Can you speak up a bit with regard to what you said before.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: I apologize. Sorry. After midnight I start getting tired and quiet.
    So there's the DC news page. Am I louder? I hope I'm louder.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: I can hear you very well.
   >> Much better.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: Okay. So, the DC news page, it's available if you want to add news about what your DC is doing please send me the content and we can also share information about what the DCs are doing if you've got surveys, if you've got documents you are producing, that sort of thing, we can post that to IGF social media on Twitter and Facebook. So, please contact me if you have any questions or would like to publicize any particular DC activities.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Thank you, Sam. Any further comments in regard of the news page? I don't see any hands. Nobody's speaking. So, we move forward to the dynamic coalition corporation in general.
    Again, Sam had an RP called bit of a question, why do we have a dynamic coalition coordination and what is the purpose of the dynamic coalition coordination. I do think this is somehow also related to the dynamic coalition's guidelines that had been prepared or the renewal of these guidelines had been prepared by Michael Ogea. And we had discussed these during our last call setting a deadline of twoweek's time for if there would be any objections against the guidelines. I assume we didn't receive any comments, any objections, so the guidelines could be assumed to be agreed among dynamic coalitions. And somehow I don't outline a bit not only what individual dynamic coalitions are doing but I do think the guidelines refer somehow also to the cooperation of the dynamic coalitions.
    For me not to talk during the whole time of this call I would be happy if you, Michael, could step in and say something about the guidelines maybe for those who have not yet come across it and also for Sam to better understand why it was necessary to renew these guidelines.
   >> MICHAEL: Thank you, Jutta. So, actually very funny point. I was speaking for some reason Sam and I were exchanging emails maybe about a week ago and I brought this point up to her and she hadn't been familiar with it before. So, I sent her the link and she read through it. So, at least now Sam is familiar with the process. And we both agreed that the only real point forward that we've not taken yet is kind of what is the status of their implementation. I mean as far as I am concerned Markus, you can back me up here we had left it open so anybody could comment on it but nobody commented. And I think we agreed in the previous meeting that silence is adoption or consent in that sense is consensus. Sorry. So, I think, based on that, we can consider them in force and effect.
    And the biggest thing to me is to make sure that we can going forward, you know, for this cycle essentially use those guidelines to monitor our work. Which, if I remember correctly, focuses on the fact that there is a one to twopage very concise annual report that sums up what the dynamic coalition did. It's purely administrative. That will be due, if I remember correctly, by the end of January the next year. So, in this case, January 2021. Sorry, 31 January 2021 we'll submit those to the secretariat and that is separate from any DC's, let's say culminating report or culminating project that they're working on for that year. So, for instance dynamic coalition on platform responsibility, they're putting together a glossary of important terms and basically creating almost like a wiki for all these platformrelated issues and topics. That would not be their annual report. That is their outcome document that they've put together. But it's not the same as an annual report. That way we no longer have to be worried or concerned with how if a DC is abiding by what is, you know, by the existing guidelines or not, there's no confusion, there's just clarity. Have you submitted your report about what you've done in the past year? Yes? Okay. Then we're okay. So, the guidelines spell that out. And I think now the biggest thing is just making sure that they're updated on the website. And that's everything I have to say. Markus, Jutta, anyone else on the call do you have anything to add or did I miss anything?
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Allow me to check in to say great work, Michael, thank you very much for this. And you explained it very well. We had some discussions and we realized there was some ambiguities in past description and different understandings of what it meant, the annual report. And I think now there's no room for ambiguity and it's very clear. So, it's just a binary thing where the secretary can check the box, yes we received the report, yes or no. That should also make you and your successor's work easier, Sam. Thank you for that, Michael. And thank you all for contributing and approving it. Thanks.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Okay. Any further questions with regard to DC's cooperation or with regard to the guideline? Anything you want to discuss, you want to ask? Slowly counting to six. I don't see any hands. Nobody is speaking. I do think you're fine with that.
    That leaves us with any other business. And there we have the MAG chair's initiative on an online discussion.
    Sam, would you like to tell us something about that? I know you are working with  Anwerd on that and we have already set up one session of these MAG chair discussions also for cooperation in regard of dynamic coalitions and the BPX. But maybe you could tell us a little bit more about the initiative taken by the MAG chair.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: I thought Markus was going to talk about that but I'm happy to take it if Markus doesn't want to?
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Well thank you. I was going to talk about the session we have next Wednesday BPFs and DCs. But maybe, Sam, you can give a high-level overview of the whole initiative that already has started. These online discussions.
   >> SAMANTHA DICKINSON: Okay I'll do that.
    As part of the efforts to strengthen the IGF and I hope I'm loud enough again. I may need to have more coffee before the next latenight call.
   (Laughter)
    So, because of the high-level panel on digital cooperation and the recommendations that came out of that leading to the UN Secretary General's road map plus the fact that we are currently five years into the second tenyear mandate of the IGF that was given by the UN General Assembly back in 2015. One of the things that the MAG chair has decided to do is hold a series of online discussions. They're two hours each. And they're looking at the longterm process of improving the IGF. So, there was a reference to that in the last newsletter that went out on the first of September. I do hope you read that because I put so much effort into creating that. And there will be links in the next newsletter which will go out at the end of this week.
    There are in three different areas I'm looking at the evolution of the IGF in the context of digital cooperation. There's the IGF and its mandate this year. What are the challenges and achievements that we've achieved at IGF halfway through the mandate. And a wider scope is the framework for addressing internet emerging issues.
    And I'll hand it over to Markus about the specific one relevant to DCs.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you, Sam.
    Yes, next Wednesday, 23rd of September, there will be a session about dealing with PBFs and DCs intercessional activities. It will be from 1200 UTC till 1400 UTC. And on the first same day and immediately after that there will be a highlevel event on digital cooperation action today for future generations. So this in a way feeds into it. Although obviously participants will not necessarily be the same. But hopefully some participants will be on arietta’s session will also be on the highlevel event. And as you have read the paper on digital cooperation and the various papers on the discussion, a lot of the activities we are doing already feed into what is proposed in these papers. So, we do have an opportunity to contribute and to enrich that discussion and also to see how we actually see ourselves.
    And, obviously, it's always nice to have a sort of architectural vision of what could be done. And it's also another thing to do it on the ground. And it would then also be interesting to hear from you what you have found as your main challenges. And some of the achievements that coalitions have had are truly remarkable. I don't want to single out any one of them. And they're all somewhat different and that shows the great diversity, the great divisions of the coalitions. They all are dealing with different matters also they need to adapt their methodology to the discussion on the substance. Obviously, DC coordinators would be most welcome to attend the session and also to invite their respective networks to attend the session.
    We will send out Sam, can I leave that to you that you will send out the relevant information to the DC list. I repeat again it will be Wednesday next week, 23rd of September, between 1200 and 1400 UTC and I hope you will join the session. Thanks.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Markus there's something I wanted to point out in this regard. I do think that it's real remarkable that in the series of these discussions the best practice firms and dynamic coalitions are in one single slot so to say. Because I remember we had several times discussions at MAG meetings on the difference between best practice terms and dynamic coalitions and also on the difference in regard of support provided to best practice firms. And sometimes people expect that dynamic coalitions are as productive in regard of outcomes as best practice terms are. Though there is this difference in BPFs having a person in charge of taking care of the work they're doing and the reports to be produced. While dynamic coalitions are complete autonomous and, therefore, also completely selfresponsible for what they produce and bring to the IGF ecosystem. And, therefore, I really do think this discussion that anreet has initiated at this session with the BPFs and the dynamic coalitions discussed in one session it provides for good grounds to lay these differences out and also to manage somehow expectations that are addressed to the work of dynamic coalitions.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: All good points, Jutta.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: So we have 5 minutes left. We can hand that over to you for a bit of leisure time or we can fill that with further questions and discussions. Are there any? Is there any other business not yet phrased out on the agenda?
    I don't see any hands and I don't see any comments in the chat. Also no one is speaking. Then I will say thank you so much for taking part in this dynamic coalitions call. We will communicate I do think it will take some time to prepare the usual minutes. So not to lose too much time for preparing these substantive papers based on the template. The best would be to send that information out right away. I know it's midnight in Brisbane but maybe we can send that out tomorrow, Sam, so that dynamic coalitions know the deadline and can prepare for their contribution to the dynamic coalition's main session. And thanks so all of you for being there today.
   >> MARKUS KUMMER: Thanks and goodbye.
   >> JUTTA CROLL: Byebye. Thank you to Markus and Sam for making this very easy today.
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