IGF 2022 Day 0 Event #10 Cyber hygiene: Best practices from the Insafe network

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.



>> SABRINA VORBAU: Greetings to Addis Ababa, from Brussels, and thank you for joining this pre‑event which is hosted by the Insafe Network. It's really good to connect with you all the way to Addis Ababa. And we also have two colleagues from our network with us on stage, Anna and Julia from NASK, from the Polish Safer Internet Centre. And as you can see here, this pre‑event is about sharing best practices from the Insafe Network. 

To explain to you very briefly, I have the pleasure to be joined by various different members from the Insafe Network during today's pre‑event. The Insafe Network is a network of Safer Internet Centres from across Europe. We coordinate these Safer Internet Centres with our partners from INHOPE. Safer Internet Centres are funded by the European Commission, and I do hope that our colleague from the Commission is able to join us later on as well. Safer Internet Centres are operating in all of the EU Member States, plus Norway and Iceland, and also, third countries where now the UK also belongs to.

It's really nice today, as I said, that I'm joined by different colleagues from the different Safer Internet Centres, to share more of the important work that they are doing within Europe, but also more globally. As you can see here, hopefully, on the screen, Safer Internet Centres are composed of three different strings, which is the National awareness note, focusing on raising awareness and understanding of safer Internet issues and emerging trends. They run various campaigns to empower children and young people. Most of you might be familiar with Safer Internet Day, which is a global campaign that has been celebrated for almost 20 years globally. So, this is one of our campaigns where we have gone global, where we try as much as possible to connect like‑minded organizations from around the world. 

Safer Internet Centres also consist of helplines, which provide information and advice to citizens, mostly children and young people, but also adults, parents, and teachers. They're really a firsthand service if users are concerned about various different, also sensitive, topics. You can see here, on the slides, challenges including, for example, cyberbullying and sexting.

And then the third string is hotlines, which is mostly dealing ‑‑ hotlines are mostly dealing with child sexual abuse material with things circulating in the dark net. They're working very closely with law enforcement. And as I said in the beginning, they are coordinated by our partners, INHOPE. And last but not least, also an important and fundamental part of the work that the Safer Internet Centres are doing also includes working directly with children and young people, so youth participation is a very, very important component. 

Also, in the recently launched Better Internet for Kids Plus strategy introduced by the European Commission this May, youth participation should really be put in the front line of the work stakeholders are doing in order to ensure a safer and better Internet for children and young people. It's really important to include young people as much as possible, also in policy‑making processes, and also from an early stage on in decision‑making processes.  This is why most of our Safer Internet Centres are also very active. They have their own national youth panels. They're working directly with children and young people at national level, and we also give them an opportunity once per year to connect at a more international and European level. 

The coordination of the Safer Internet Centres, the Insafe Network, is also summarized in the Better Internet for Kids Portal, a one‑stop shop for everything around online safety, media literacy education. It's a portal that is ‑‑ that you can consult under betterInternetforkids.eu. The portal is constructed in different ways. As you can see, there are different entry points at the portal, depending on which stakeholder group you are representing or which stakeholder group you are interested in. It also offers a resource gallery with nearly 1,000 resources, where we showcase resources from the Safer Internet Centres. You will hear about some of these resources during today's pre‑event. It's a public portal. You don't need to use any login to consult these resources. They are free of charge and available also in many different languages there.

As I said before, Insafe and INHOPE, we are also coordinating the annual Safer Internet Day, a global campaign, a day where we stand together and raise awareness about Better Internet for Kids. You can see here on the slide that the next Safer Internet Day will be celebrated on the seventh of February next year. It will also mark the 20th anniversary of this global campaign. I hope you will all join us.

If you check the Better Internet for Kids Portal, you can also find more information about Safer Internet Day and who is coordinating this campaign within your country. As I said, it's a global campaign; it's not only European‑based. We have Safer Internet Day committees around the world, organizations that are really active on this day to promote activities at national level as well. 

The portal is an ever‑growing portal from our side. We are working every day on this portal to add new information, to stay up to date with different trends that circulate on the Internet. We provide information for different stakeholders, as you can see here, really focusing on practitioners as well, but also on working with policymakers, academia, and also industry, altogether very important players when ensuring a safer and better Internet for children and young people.

This, so far of the introduction to today's pre‑event, as I said, I'm delighted that I'm joined by various colleagues who are working in those national Safer Internet Centres that they have the opportunity to show you and showcase you more about the valuable work they are doing at national level. I also spoke briefly about the newly launched Better Internet for Kids Plus strategy that was just endorsed in May. I don't know if our colleague from the European Commission has joined by now, Manuela Marta? If someone from my colleagues who are joining online can just let me know if they can see her in the list. 

>> MODERATOR: I don't think so, Sabrina. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Okay. So maybe she had some problems to connect, which is unfortunate, because before diving deeper into the work of the Safer Internet Centres, we thought important to also give an opportunity to share more about the Better Internet for Kids Plus strategy, which is a really important policy that has been endorsed, this made by the European Commission, which will shape the work we are doing, and also the Safer Internet Centres will be doing, that also caters concrete action points to different stakeholders, how to really implement and take action. As I said before, youth participation has been highlighted as part of this strategy. Very importantly, it's something that needs to be done, that young people need to be consulted; they need to be involved in decision‑making processes; also, when, for example, new tools and apps are designed. 

I would suggest that we maybe wait and keep this presentation, if possible, until towards the end, just to see if our colleague from the European Commission will manage throughout this pre‑event to connect, because, of course, she is very much better placed to run you through this deck.

But to not lose any time, in the meantime, I would say we start with the presentation of our Safer Internet Centre representatives, and I've just put ‑‑ this is just going through alphabetical order. So, by no means, I'm now introducing Evangelia Daskalaki. She is working at FORTH. And FORTH is the coordinator of the Safer Internet Centre in Greece. Evangelia, the floor is yours. And just let me know when you want me to click through the next slide. I can do that for you. 

>> EVANGELIA DASKALAKI: Thank you so much, Sabrina. Thank you also for the very informative introduction. Well, good morning and good afternoon to all of the corners of the world and also to Addis Ababa. My name is Evangelia Daskalaki, and I work for the Greek Safer Internet Centre of FORTH. 

And the operations of the SIC started in 2016 under the coordination of the Foundation for Research and Technology‑Hellas, one of the largest research centers in Greece with well‑organized facilities. It has the indication of a top‑level research institute and its headquarters are in Crete.  There are many within the Greek SIC, which is the awareness line, which is the Safer Internet 4 Kids, operating since 2016. The second is the helpline, helpline.gr, which is operating since 2012. 

And the third strand is our hotline, safeline.gr, which is the longest one, the elder one, which operates since 2003.  The helpline of the Greek SIC ‑‑ helpline.gr ‑‑ offers support by telephone, email, and chat, in cases of harmful content and conduct, such as excessive Internet use, bullying, or exposure to inappropriate online content. It primarily addresses minors, parents, and educators, but it can also be consulted by the general public, industry, government, and public services.

Then comes safeline.gr, which is a hotline for reporting illegal content and conduct on the Internet in Greece. SafeLine's primary concern is the elimination of child sexual abuse material online and the fight against illegal content in general. SafeLine is a member of the INHOPE Network since 2005, and it collaborates with Internet service providers in Greece, the Greek Research and Technology Network, and with the Greek police in order to quickly remove illegal online content.

Last but not least is the Awareness Center, the Greek Safer Internet Center, Safer Internet 4 Kids, which is well known and established in Greece and facilitates awareness‑raising in Greece about Internet safety, but also security. It has established strategic partnerships. One such important strategic partnership is the partnership with the Ministry of Education in Greece, with whom support the center organizes children computations and conducts national surveys on the online activities of children in Greece. This partnership also allows the center to keep an open communication channel with the public schools. And in addition, the center also receives an official approval from the Ministry to teach and promote its materials in the public schools of Greece. 

Another strategic partnership of the Awareness Center, in order to raise awareness in Greece, is the Ministry of Digital Governance, and more specifically, the National Cybersecurity Authority in Greece. Together, we collaborate in the European Cybersecurity Month Campaign of the European Union Agency for Cybersecurity. We also carry out webinars in high schools and cooperate in the creation of educational materials.

Last but not least is that the Greek SIC is trusted partner of various online platforms, such as Google, YouTube, Meta, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and so on and so forth. Next slide, please. 

In terms of awareness‑raising activities, the center produces and organizes a range of materials and activities, as shown in this presentation. So, we create material for children, parents, and educators, i.e., presentations, leaflets, posters, videos, books, and so on and so forth.

We do capacity‑building with news articles, newsletters, hot topics in our platform. We create lesson plans, both for educators, but also for students, for all educational levels and for vulnerable groups. We conduct seminars, webinars, and trainings for students and parents and educators. We have created so far two massive online courses for educators and for students, which are uploaded in the Open eClass Platform of Greece. We conduct national surveys about online trends targeted both to parents, but also to students.  And we run various social media campaigns. And in some of them, we also use influencers. 

In the last five years, Safer Internet 4 Kids, the GR, has received over 7 million page views and 4 million of which were accumulated in the past two years of the pandemic. The website also received 1.3 million new users these last two years. The quizzes that we have uploaded in our platform have been used over 300,000 times. And in addition, we have created 380 videos that have been uploaded, and formatted images, of course, that have been uploaded in our channels. Moreover, in 2021 and '22, the Awareness Center reached 23,000 public school visits, while through webinars, we have reached 3,000 parents and 9,000 educators. 

Now, during the COVID‑19 pandemic, Safer Internet 4 Kids created a dedicated web page with tips for 11 platforms, such as how to stay away from frauds and suggestions for quality time online and positive content. It also offered webinars for educators focused on issues as personal data protection during eLearning, intellectual property protection and disinformation online. Moreover, the Greek Center carried out various work targeting vulnerable groups. Some of the highlights of these include webinars in sign language for people with hearing disabilities, webinars for people and students with ADHD and their Internet use, and seminars that were targeted to vulnerable groups like refugees. 

Being part of FORTH, we also conduct national surveys on a yearly basis. These surveys led to publication of four academic research papers the last years. Next slide, please. 

Now, when it comes to youth participation, the Youth Panel of the Greek SIC consists of 27 members across the country, and it includes young people from small villages, from islands, but also from large cities, thus drawing a very comprehensive picture of the country. The Youth Panel also produced a range of videos on various topics, such as disinformation, body positivity, as well as videos to encourage talking about various online experiences with trusted adults.

The Youth Panel also supported the center with the creation of leaflets targeting their peers, covering topics such as Internet use during the pandemic and body image influencers online.

At the international level, the Greek youth panelists have participated in various activities, such as Big Youth Panel, the Internet Governance Forum from 2019 up until today, 2022, the Youth Summit and the AI and Children's Rights Workshop, organized by the Joint Research Center of the European Commission, among others.

Thank you very much. This was a small presentation of the Greek Safer Internet Centre. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Thank you so much, Evangelia, for your presentation. I suggest that we move ahead with our next presentation, which is coming. We are moving now from Greece to Malta. I welcome Deborah Vassallo. She is working for the Emergency Oncall/BeSmartOnline! Which is part of the Malta Safer Internet Centre. Deborah, I hope you can hear me. The floor is yours. And again, please do let me know when I should move the slides.  Deborah, are you still with us? 

>> DEBORAH VASSALLO: Good morning.  Hello, Sabrina. Thank you. Are you hearing me? Okay.  So, good morning. I'm Deborah. I'm from the BeSmartOnline! Which is a consortium made of different partners, as the other Safer Internet Centres. We are also co‑founded by the European Union. Next slide, please, Sabrina. The lead partner is the Foundation for Social Welfare Services, which is a foundation for child protection, mainly, and among obviously the services offered by Child Protection.  We also incorporate child online protection. 

Then we have partners such as the Office of the Commissioner for Children, the Ministry of Education, and also the Malta Police Force, specifically, the Cybercrime Unit. The strength of this consortium is the collaboration. We've been operating for the past 12 years.

We all have different roles, mainly the Foundation for Social Welfare Services takes care of the Safer Internet Centre, the helpline and the hotline. The Office of the Commissioner for Children is more specifically on ‑‑ organizes the youth panelists and works with the Youth Ambassadors. And with the Malta Police Force, we work particularly with the Child Welfare Hotline for the illegal content, so we have this memorandum of understanding with the cybercrime unit in order to be able to analyze the illegal content. And with the Ministry of Education, we have this collaboration, since they are the ones who produce resources to schools, mainly in the psychosocial subject, which is a subject which is offered to all students in Malta and Gozo, whereby we also have included the topic of online safety. 

And according to the different ages of the children, they receive different information. So, for example, for the younger kids, you have digital citizenship and information about respect and cyberbullying. For the older children, you have sessions on sexting and protecting one's self online, et cetera. Next slide. 

As I have mentioned, we also do a lot of work with the young people, especially for Safer Internet Day. In fact, the last Safer Internet Day, last February, we have the video that we have produced for the actual day, was produced along with the young people, and it was one of our youth panelists who actually edited and produced the video at the end. The end product was made by one of our young panelists. So, we give a lot of importance to young people in our consortium. And also, when we create resources or awareness campaigns, we specifically ask them for what they're encountering in their environment. So, if there is a particular trend going on, if they have any ideas on the type of resources that might be more appealing to young people or to people their age. So, for us, the young people are very, very important. Next slide, please. 

As for the helpline, our Internet helpline is incorporated in our generic helpline, which goes by the number of 179, but it is also connected to the Child Helpline, which is the 116111. We get about 16,000 calls per year. Obviously, these are not calls related to the Internet or online abuse, because anyone around the island can phone on this number for all kinds of support, so they might be calling for domestic violence, child protection, mental health, all types of problems.

We have incorporated the online safety calls since 2010. And there was also a very important milestone with the support line, because it used to be operated by volunteers, but since ‑‑ for the past four years, we have employed staff who are working on shifts, and the support line is being offered 24 hours a day with paid, employed staff. We have seen this was a very positive move that our agency did, because even the people are more committed. We can offer them training. We can invest in our operators. And even when it comes to online safety calls, we can constantly update them about what is going on, and from there, then, we receive ‑‑ we get the Internet‑related calls.  Next slide, please. 

Just a few statistics from the past years.  Obviously, being a small island, for us having more than ‑‑ almost 700 calls, which are online‑related, is very important. But apart from this, being that we are a small island, and distances are not such a big deal for us, we also offer one‑to‑one sessions to those who would like further support. So, we invite them to our offices and we help them with situations, for example, of cyberbullying. We help them to keep the evidence, if there are instances where they need to follow it up with a police report.  We support them in that. So, it's for us, apart from the online, apart from the calls that we receive by phone, we also offer one‑to‑one support in person to those who would like it, would like to receive it. Next slide, please. 

As the globe ‑‑ globally, I think ‑‑ and this is reflected also in our helpline ‑‑ cyberbullying was one of the top problems that we received. The percentage of our calls is related to online safety were on cyberbullying, and this has taught us a lot. This has influenced also the type of awareness campaigns that we are doing. We are trying to focus more on cyberbullying and also on encouraging children to respect one another, on being empathetic, on being in the other person's shoes, like raising awareness about how would you feel if you are being bullied; how would you feel if someone that you know is being bullied or your sister or your brother? So, even the kind of awareness is focusing more on cyberbullying, since we are seeing that even from a younger-age children are using online means to bully others. Next slide.  Next slide, please.

I would like to share with you one of our awareness campaigns, which was this Digital Detox. It was exactly right after everything, all the COVID, the pandemic measures were going to be removed. And we encouraged them to do like a digital detox, since we were receiving many calls from, also from adults, from parents, telling us that their children are spending more time online, et cetera. So, we encouraged them to do this Digital Detox Campaign, whereby they had a mission every week. It went on for seven weeks.  And there was this mission where they have to do something offline and then promote it online, also to encourage some form of positive online content.

So, for example, in one mission, they had to draw a cyberbullying poster, poster against cyberbullying. In another mission, they have to follow a recipe online and then document it to us via our social media page. This was very successful. We had aimed to have around 30,000 reach, but in reality, we got a reach of over 50,000 children participated in it, and we had also very positive feedback from the parents who told us that it involved their kids and they were happy about it, that it involved both the offline and also the online.

And one last thing I would like to mention, something that we are currently doing. Next slide, Sabrina. Something that we have collaborated with this Maltese band called The Travellers. We met them. We gave them some case studies, and then they came up with the song called "SIMILI."  The song is in Maltese. It is a song which the basic message is that we are all similar, so we need to respect ‑‑ we are not all similar, we need to respect each other's differences, and it is easy to stay sitting on your couch and judge others by simply moving your fingers, but you need to understand other people as well. The video is also very ‑‑ it is very related to the message because you have this girl who is being cyberbullied. And with every message that she is receiving, she is also getting physical scars. And we are going to use this video for our Safer Internet Day campaign next seventh of February, whereby we will be doing the School Roadshow to initiate the subject of cyberbullying with the kids, with young people, and use the song as well for them to participate. Thank you. Thank you very much. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Thank you so much, Deborah, for sharing all the work that you are doing in Malta. And once again, I think a very important and impressive work that you are doing, but also all different Safer Internet Centres are doing across Europe and beyond.

We continue our journey. And I'm also happy to welcome, and I'm actually handing over now to Addis Ababa, because our colleagues, Julia and Anna, are with you onsite in the room. They will showcase the work they're doing in Poland, as mentioned before. They are representing NASK, who is coordinating the Polish Safer Internet Centres. I hope Julia and Anna, you can hear me, and it's very good to see you onsite representing Insafe in Addis Ababa. 

>> (Inaudible)

>> SABRINA VORBAU: I can hear you very quietly, but I'm sure that's fine. 

>> Yes, good afternoon from Addis Ababa. We are very happy to be here onsite and to be a part of IGF in Ethiopia and also to represent Insafe Network as a Polish Safer Internet Centre. It is really an honor for us. And yes, because Sabrina and our online participants can't hear you and can't see you, if there will be any questions or comments, we are really happy to gather it, questions to ask to our colleagues. 

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: Okay, now it is our time to present. We are so glad to be here with the Insafe Network but especially here with the people onsite. I'm not sure, Sabrina and the others, if you can really see the room, but we have very fine participation here, so thank you. Thank you so much.  Especially we are very happy because we feel this as an occasion to have special partnership afterwards, because this is why we come here, to come back with friends from Ethiopia and all over the world because there are many, many options to cooperate, in frames of Safer Internet Plus Program, in frames of the digital program and Safer Internet Day. If you can let me know, do you know the action, Safer Internet Day? Maybe many of you organized already in your countries? It is the event approaching. It will come in February. So, really feel very warmly invited to join this effort, because it is all over the world effort to pay attention to kids' safety online. 

Our colleagues already described a little bit the centers, and we work very similarly. This is the strength, actually, of the network, that we try to deliver same services in all of the European Union. We joined ‑‑ in Poland, we joined the Insafe Network as soon as we could, after we joined the European Union in 2004. We joined in 2005. We started cooperation with the Insafe Network because, as you all know, Internet has no borders, so it's really so, so difficult to work on kids' and young people's safety, if we don't cooperate internationally. We were so happy to be able to join.

And we, of course, deliver all of those services that the network is delivering. So, we have ‑‑ maybe Sabrina, if you could share the slides? 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Unfortunately, someone took away the rights for me to do that. So, if the organizers could please give me back the rights.

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: Okay, I will speak and maybe somewhere in between the slides will appear again. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Yes, for sure.

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: So, we deliver all of those services. We have the hotline dealing with illegal content, especially with the child sexual abuse materials, but also illegal contents we have in Poland, but as well the content that is not appropriate for children. And it operates at NASK, so we work as Polish Internet Center constitutes of the NASK, and we represent NASK and some of our colleagues that are with us, and also in the consortium, we have NGOs, non‑governmental organizations, Empowering Children Foundation. And we together with the awareness part, we do all of those educational materials. And then, at NASK, we have the hotline dealing with illegal content, and in the foundation, we have helplines.

And what is really, really important, and what we are very happy about also, is that our helplines, we have two helplines. We have a helpline for children and young people ‑‑ 116111 and then for parents or teachers who have problems with the Internet threats. And they operate 24 hours, seven days a week, which is very, very important for us because we feel we can really, really come with help for children. And also, we give opportunity to come offline, because not, as you know, not all parents, not all teachers are, like, okay with dealing with such issues on the online, so we also give them opportunity to comment to talk about their problems, kids' problems. 

This number of helpline is of course the most important number for cyberbullying, like all over the European Union, this 116111 is the formal telephone number for helpline.

Talking about dealing with illegal content, now we would like just to share, you know, one issue that is raising in Poland, but also, unfortunately, all over the world. So, we can see more and more self‑generated content, so materials, pedophile materials, done by children themselves but also of course children being manipulated by the adults.

As all the centers, we cooperate with all the most important stakeholders in Poland. So, we have advisory board. We meet a few times a year. Because as I said, it's impossible to work on the national, but also, we have to work internationally, but it's also not possible to work alone, so we have to have a huge alliance of partners, and we try to cooperate with everybody who is also, like, as willing to have kid‑safe internet work. So, we have all those biggest companies like TikTok, Google, Meta, but we also cooperate a lot with the government, because it's also so, so much important to have one voice talking about the regulations and new policies that we are now very, very strong in Poland to change, also from this legal point of view.

And we were asked, actually, to choose, to pick one topic that we would like to especially share with you, because we all have only ten minutes for the center. So, we wanted to focus on the youth empowerment, something that is so much aligned with the new strategy, Better Internet for Kids Plus. We want not only to make kids safe, but also to empower them, to make them feel really, really involved. Now I must say, today in the morning, there was a fantastic Youth Summit meeting. There is Amelia, the coordinator of Youth IGF in Poland and very active here. So, this young, young voice must be heard, of young adults but also of those teenagers. And we would like now to focus on those teenagers that we cooperate with. And just to share with you some ideas how we work with them. 

>> JULIA PIECHNA: Yes. Sabrina, can you give us the next slide? So, as Anna said, we do a broad range of activities. So now we present you only one, so that refers to empowerment and involvement of young people. And when we are talking about this activity, it is worth mentioning, especially our youth panel that was established in 2010 ‑‑ so, it is older than ten years now.

At the moment, we have young people from 12 schools from across the country, and this is a kind of platform of communication for young people.  We meet regularly to discuss with them their experience, their needs, their fears and habits, expectations they have online. We discuss with them emerging trends to really know what is now in the agenda. And actually, we try to involve them also in selected activities that we are undertaking nationally or internationally. For example, they are part of our Safer Internet Day concerns. They take part in our discussion panels.  They took part in our international conference that is organized annually in Poland.

For example, this year, our young panelists took part also in Brussels in Safer Internet Forum, which is a very important annual event that is organized for key stakeholders to discuss children's safety online and solutions to make Internet a better place for children and young people. We discussed with our young panelists also our educational materials, activities that are addressed to their peers, also media campaigns to prepare them in a really authentic way.

What else? Actually, the idea of this Youth Panel is not only to work during our meetings, but also to multiply the efforts on local level. So, our young panelists can come back to their communities, to their schools and to be ambassadors of these issues locally at their schools. And yes, next slide, please. 

Another very important, and I think, inspiring activity is Digital Youth Forum, which is organized within our center by our partners, so Empowering Children Foundation. This is a conference that has been organized since 2016 for young people. So, this year, it was organized in June. And the idea and aim of this activity is to inspire young people in creative and safe use of new technologies.

So, among speakers, there are mainly young people, young activists, young influencers, young developers, that all add their access and popularity to activities online.  For example, sometimes there are really, really inspiring stories. We had young people that presented very difficult situations from their life; for example, their struggle to overcome cancer or anorexia or depression, and some acknowledge technology and activity online became a way to tame their disease.

And during Digital Youth Forum, we tried to provide high accessibility. What does it mean? So, each conference is ‑‑ during each conference, we provide translation into sign language. Also, this year due to the war in Ukraine and the fact that almost 4 million war refugees from crime across Polish borders, also the conference was also translated into Ukrainian. And actually, young people from 81 school classes from Ukraine took part in this activity because it was recorded online. The online transmission was also provided. 

And also, during this activity, we tried to provide equality. So, among young speakers, we have young ambassadors that support diversity among their peers.  And this year, this conference was participated by almost 400 young people onsite and 6,000 people online. And among these people were also young people from Ukraine and across more than 160 school classes from Polish schools. Next slide. 

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: Okay. And now for the end, we would like to also share one educational initiative that we have done with children, with their involvement of our youth panel and dedicated for young people. So, we asked in spring our youth panel, when we had a meeting with them, what topics are especially important for them? Like, what topic they would like to focus on in the coming months, especially this year when there is young people's year in the European Commission, so what they would like to be focused. And they came with us with those topics. So, they would like to know something more about the relations, how to cope with the online and the offline, the world. They have all the groups of the messengers. They have many conflicts that comes from the online life to the offline life, so how to manage this life division that they have.

Then they wanted to know how to play safely, how to not get addicted but at the same time, really be a gamer, because of course, they are gamers. They wanted to know how to be really creative online, because sometimes we all think, like, it's kind of a stereotype that all young people are so creative online, but not really. They're just really a low percentage of young people who really create something, really are authors, not just receivers of the online content, so to be creative.

And then they want to know various aspects of the network. And here, especially NASK, we have a computer emergency response team working at NASK, so we have lots of experts dealing with the security irks. So, we also wanted, of course, to take this topic on board. And they also would like to know how to learn efficiently, so they feel like the technology destruct them, they cannot concentrate. So how to still be surrounded by all those smartphones and digital technology but be able to focus on what they need to be focused on, like the education or some homework they have to do. And these were the topics that they came to us.

And then, we arranged webinars for them, and they are actually place at the moment. We did two webinars last week and now they are two and then we have another two, so six. And in each, we have a young person being a panelist. And we have an adult expert and a moderator who is moderating this discussion. And we promote it, because it's really hard to get to teenagers, actually, with educational materials. It's something like really huge effort. So, we, of course, promote it to them, but also, we promote it to schools. So, we promote it as an online lesson that the school can take part in, especially that is a topic that sometimes are really difficult for teachers to take on. So, they do it as online lessons. It's a 45‑minute live webinar, but of course, it's recorded, so then they can always use it also afterwards, not necessarily live. 

>> JULIA PIECHNA: The last slide has contacts to us. We inviolate you to visit our YouTube because we have a lot of English versions of our materials, and especially very good presentations and speeches from our international conferences that's really worth visiting. And thank you. I give the floor to Sabrina. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Thank you. Thank you so much, Anna and Julia, for your presentation and also for giving us some testimonials live from Addis Ababa. It is so unfortunate that we are not able to be there with you in person, but I do hope that in the future, the Insafe Network will be fully represented onsite again.

We have two more presentations for you, and we do hope this is really useful for colleagues being with us, and be assured that there is also some time at the end for you to ask us some questions.

We'll now move on to Sofia Rasgado from the Portuguese Safer Internet Centre. Sofia, the floor is yours. 

>> SOFIA RASGADO: Thank you so much, Sabrina. Good afternoon, Addis Ababa. I hope you can hear me well.  As Sabrina mentioned, my name is Sofia Rasgado, and I am the Coordinator of the Portuguese Safer Internet Centre, and I am very happy to collaborate in this workshop with all my other colleagues.

To start, I would like to give you a brief presentation of our Safer Internet Centre. We are a consortium built both by public and private organizations and coordinated by the National Cybersecurity Center, which complement their work towards a safer online ecosystem for all. Our mission is to develop a culture of a safer and healthier use of the Internet, empowering citizens to make informed choices and to contribute to fight against bad conduct and illegal content available online. 

This being said, I would like to address the main point of my presentation, which will focus on some of our best practices resources by target groups that are available on our website and in the platform, Better Internet for Kids and can be downloaded free of charge. Next slide, please, Sabrina. 

Starting with children. Nowadays, children grow up surrounded by technology and develop from an early age the ability to be online alone. Today, more than ever, it is necessary to alert them to the risks, and at the same time, make them aware of digital safety. Thus, the Zigzaga Na Net developed as part of the Portuguese Public Radio online programming, and it was possible due to the direct collaboration between some of the partners of the Portuguese Safer Internet Centre Consortium. In February 2022, the second season of Zigzaga Na Net was launched. Through the season, children are given a set of advice that contribute to the development of their digital skills.  This new season was launched on the Safer Internet Day, and since February, each month, three new episodes can be heard online. 

The episodes of the first season were adapted into a book with 30 illustrations which tell three different short stories.  Over 5,900 copies of the printed book were sent to all the school kindergartens and school libraries in Portugal and islands. This resource reached 22,328 people through social media, and it was downloaded 574 times. 

This book is a contribution to the development of digital literacy among young children in Portugal, and it has been recognized by the National Reading Plan from the Ministry of Education, meaning that it is also available on their website and is recommended for teachers to use it in the classroom. 

Another resource are the six episodes of focused stories. Once again, with the partnership of the Portuguese radio/television, it was possible to launch this series targeting children from 3 to 8 years. It is important that the series was broadcast in one of the highest audience segments for children and were also aired to Portuguese‑speaking African countries through the Portuguese Radio Television for Africa. Next slide. 

Regarding youngsters, our center, in partnership with Me and the Others programs, from the Ministry of Health, developed a video game that intends to create a graphic interactive narrative, meaning that the narrative can take different parts according to the decisions of the players at the end of each segment of the story.  The new graphic novel created around non‑substance addictions and the problematic abuse of the Internet gives the teacher the possibility of using the participants' smartphones to develop individual and group dynamics.  The story focused on the typical process of adolescents of expanding their social world and increasing the influence of friends, which can jeopardize family dynamics, triggering questions around loyalty to both parties.

Throughout the plot, things such as gaming, gambling, cybersecurity, social media, school dropout, and the answer to the problems resulting from these behaviors are worked on.  It is aimed at young people between 12 and 18 years. And in a prevention perspective, it can be played individual or in groups; it can be applied in schools, juvenile association, or even in foster homes for young people.

The program has an assessment protocol that involves the application of pre and post questionnaires to the intervention and its comparisons with a control group. Last week, during the International Conference Lisbon Addiction, it was made a presentation about New Problems New Approach, addictions for adolescents and adults, showing the first results of the implementation of this resource.  Next slide, please. 

Concerning digital parenting in 2021, we launched the eBooks "Parents, Children, and Technology," aimed primarily at parents and educators. It is divided into subteams, and the eBook provides in‑depth information on childhood and parenting today, growing up with technology, importance of parental mediation, parenting styles on Internet use, parental strategies for Internet use regulation, tips for parents and children, and how to use our helpline.  This resource reached 97,535 people through social media, and it was downloaded more than 3,000 times. 

Regarding senior citizens ‑‑ grandpa ‑‑ online. It is an example of a resource that was launched during the COVID‑19 confinement. It is a miniseries of six episodes that features the adventures of the grandfather and a grandmother and their grandchildren when dealing with the digital world. In an intergenerational perspective and based on humor, very well‑known Portuguese actors address topics like privacy, social media, hate speech, and online dating.  This series aims to promote the use of the Internet among the senior population in a safe and responsible manner, highlighting the benefits and opportunities that technology offers for their well‑being. Next slide. 

Since 2019, the National Cybersecurity Center is made available for massive open online courses, reaching out to more than 92,476 people. Each of them deals with a specific subject regarding cybersecurity. Just to give you an overview, the Cybersecurity Citizen Course is intended for all citizens, from those who do not have much experience in using the Internet, to the more experienced ones, since the recycling of knowledge in cyber IT can make the difference when it comes to the Internet which is in a constant evolution.

The course Consumer CyberSafe offers tools to do online shopping in a safe way, like identifying if an online shopping website is safe; what is the most appropriate means of payment for a given situation; or what are the customer rights in the European Union. The course Cyber‑Informed Citizen is aimed at all citizens who consult information online. In this way, it is intended not only to alert to the dangers of a critical consumption of information but also to share knowledge that helps citizens to verify if the information they consult online is true.

The Cyber‑Social Citizen course was designed based on up‑to‑date literature and data from recent research and describes the main social media platforms, highlighting the best practice in their use to improve cybersecurity and user privacy. Next slide, please. 

Last but not least, as Sabrina mentioned, on one of our activities is the celebration of the Safer Internet Day. And this year, we launched the campaign “Logout to Abuse.” Our concern is physical and emotional safety, so we created online content to alert about some of the forms of dating violence through social networks. The type of audience is teenagers of both genders, since the issue of control as a form of violence is transversal to both gender and sexual orientation. In this sense, it was important to create gender‑neutral message.

With the support of the Commission for Citizenship and Gender Equality, the Directorate General of Education created the awareness campaign, which comprised five posters with different messages, disseminated through social media during the month of February 2022 and made also available in the supermarket also in the carriage of Lisbon Metro. With this campaign, we estimate to have reached more than 3 million people across the country.

Also, for the dissemination of the Safer Internet Day 2022, a specific landing page was developed on our website that during the month of February had 16,544 views.  So, next slide. And thank you very much for your attention. And please, and Sabrina, the floor is yours. Thank you. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Thank you so very much, Sofia, for sharing, again, a very impressive and important set of resources and highlighting, really, the work that you and all the other colleagues are doing at national level, with the different stakeholders, and also the resources that they are producing in very interactive and tangible formats.

To remind everyone who's listening to this pre‑event, you can also find most of these resources on the Better Internet for Kids Portal, and then, of course, also on the websites of the different Safer Internet Centres. If you login to the IGF community again to read the description of our pre‑event, you can find links to either website.

One final presentation before we're really happy to open the floor. And I see that we have a full room onsite. We are looking forward to receiving your questions.  I am handing over to David Wright, who works for Southwest Grid for Learning. That represents one‑third of the Safer Internet Centres in the UK. David, the floor is yours. 

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Sabrina, thank you. Thank you very much. Hopefully, everyone can hear me okay and equally a very warm welcome to all of you at the IGF over there in Addis Ababa. It's great to be able to participate again for another year, particularly talking about Insafe Network, but we look forward to next year as well when we'll be there again in person. Next slide, please, Sabrina. 

So, as Sabrina said, I'm David Wright. I am CEO of a UK charity and one of the three Directors of the UK Safer Internet Centre. So, you've heard some amazing insights to some of the National European Safer Internet Centres, and I'm merely going to add that and reflection about some of the activities of what is the UK Safer Internet Centre. So, we're a partnership of three charities within the UK, and we've been very proud members of the European Safer Internet Centres, the Insafe Network, since 2011.  So, now just over a decade old. And it has been this partnership of three charities, and we each operate parts of the different ‑‑ or the different parts of the network. 

We now are funded, or at least co‑funded, by the UK domain registry in the UK, following the decisions of the UK, and as Sabrina said, now no longer a European Member State, but we still continue very much to participate, to contribute, within the Insafe Network. And again, like all of the other European Safer Internet Centres, we have three parts. Next slide, please, Sabrina.

The first one we're going to focus on really here is the Awareness Center. And so, we do a whole series of activities, clearly to do with raising awareness within and across the four nations that make up the UK. These are merely just some of those particular activities. And I'm going to start off, really, with Safer Internet Day, and that's obviously the very primary purpose that we engage and we share information with the IGF and have done since going back to 2011‑2012. So, Safer Internet Day from a UK perspective. It is our single day of activity, single day of limelight that we get. And so, we always measure impact in terms of evaluations.

This year, 2022, Safer Internet Day, we managed to reach 54% of children within the UK and 38% of children. And then we see the impact, particularly around those children who have been more confident to talk about issues online. We mention this as well to do with the most numerous supporters. This year we were supported by 3,424 different organizations, in terms of reach and downloads. We had nearly a million views of Safer Internet Day films and over 125,000 downloads of the education PACs, so all different kinds of measures that we use to measure Safer Internet Day, and over the last decade it's grown year by year, particularly from a UK perspective. So, we are now well into activities for the Safer Internet Day for next year.

And so, I'm going to pick up on a couple of other bits. Project Evolve is a major project for us that looks at digital media literacy skills that children should have. For too long, we think, we've focused on the harm and exploitation that children can encounter online, and you know, showing children films of, let's say exploitations, see if they recognize it, they can perhaps avoid it. But we now realize children don't learn like that. So it's in the same way that when you learned to drive a car, you didn't merely watch films of car crashes in terms of exploitation that happens online. Clearly, it is an important aspect to understand that, but not in isolation.

So, what are the skills that each and every age group should have online? And so, describe that to do with at every age and then provide activities and indeed assess mechanisms around this as well.

In terms of awareness‑raising, Online Safety Live is our program that's been running seven years and goes and educates professional development around online safety. We've reached over 27,000 teachers across the UK as well as podcast information, too. So, podcasts that we've launched. We very much support peer support education or peer support programs, given that children will invariably only talk to friends when it comes to ‑‑ when they encounter issues. So, digital leader programs, peer mentoring structures, peer support structures, we think, are really important as well. 

I'm going to move on now to the next one, please, Sabrina. The second aspect around helplines. And this is actually one of our contributions. So, we operate three helplines in the UK. First was launched in 2011, the Professionals Online Safety Helpline. We support those working with children around online safety issues. And again, we've seen a great escalation in terms of calls over that particular period.

More recently, at the top there, we launched the platform in 2019, reportharmfulcontent.com. This supports anyone over the age of 13 in reporting legal but harmful content. We took seven years to build this particular platform, and we always encourage people ‑‑ victims, those experiencing legal but harmful content ‑‑ to go report that to the platform. Indeed, that's where there's direction, some help and some confidence that the platform provides. So, if you want to report content on Facebook, here's where you do. If you want to report impersonation on Twitter, here's where you go.

Now, if you have a question or query or, perhaps, they're not taking the action you expected, you can report that and the team will assess it, and if they think the content should have been removed, they'll make representation to get that content taken down. And we take action in about 25% of the cases that get sent to us. When we do take action, we are between 89% and 92% takedown rates. Reportharmfulcontent.com.

And finally, in this section, we look at supporting adults. In 2015, we created and established the world's first helpline to support adults who are victims of non‑consensual image views, the Revenge Porn Helpline. This is from our perspective; this has had the most significant impact. We have seen a doubling of cases year over year for the last nine years. Last year we supported over 4,400 people, just going through removal of 300,000 images. And indeed, we've got a workshop tomorrow, in fact, around about this time tomorrow, on this particular subject as well. So, Workshop 71. You're all very welcome to ‑‑ I couldn't really not plug this, could I, people? Please come along to that Workshop 71, the good, bad, and the ugly around online gender imbalance. We see major gender imbalance in that case. Last year, 75% of all of the people we supported were women. When we support men, on average, each case has 0.2 images per case, and women, 12.5 images per case, so massive gender imbalance dealing with that. 

And we have stopncii.org, the first device hashing technology to enable victims of those being threatened to post having their images shared online, actually being able to prevent those images from being shared online. So, there's a little taste. Come along to the workshop tomorrow perhaps to find out more.

Final slide, please, Sabrina, around hotline. And the hotline is operated by the IWF, the Internet Watch Foundation.  Again, so, like Child Internet Watch Foundation and us, we're all between 20 and 25 years old as charities. IWF again has seen an escalation, in particular, reports being made to them. Last year, you can see they received over 360,000 reports in the public that analysts assessed each and every one of those. Of those reports that were made to them, they concluded over 250,000 of those reports actually did contain illegal child sex abuse material. So, as you can see, a massive increase from the year before. 

The big focus at the moment, which their analysts, having looked at each of those images, is around self‑generated or images being coercively created. And so, as you can see, big, big rise, some 183,000 of those ‑‑ quarter of a million images ‑‑ were actually self‑generated or coercively created images as well. And so, predominantly, 11 to 13‑year‑olds, which you can see there, but increasingly ‑‑ which they concluded last year ‑‑ 7 to 10‑year‑olds featuring in those self‑generated images, arise from 7,000 individual images in 2020, rising to 27,000 in 2021. So, massive cause for concern in terms of this big rise, and very much we would see that with the Revenge Porn Helpline, adults encountering exactly the same thing as well. So, some really, really important work that goes on around the assessment, the analysis of these particular images, and getting this content taken down.

As you can see, 0.15% of that content being hosted in the UK, but we either take action on each of those images, wherever they actually happen, to be known and report those, and also report those in through the amazing INHOPE Network as well.

So, wanted to afford time for questions. I believe we have five minutes or so time for questions. Sabrina, back over to you. Thank you very much. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Thank you very much, David. And once again, I would like to thank all my colleagues, and also the European Commission, for sharing the very important work they're doing at national level. As I said, this is really ‑‑ these are really best practice examples how this Better Internet for Kids Plus strategy has been put in action, focusing on child protection, child empowerment and child participation, which is at the core of the work that we are doing.

We still have some time for questions and we are really thrilled to open the floor now to hear your feedback and your questions. Thank you very much. You see two pictures of us from previous IGFs. We are usually onsite with you. It's still a massive regret that this year didn't work out, but we hope to be back. But I will just see with colleagues onsite, Anna and Julia, to see if there are any questions or comments from our audience. And thank you for listening. 

>> JULIA PIECHNA: Yes, we have one comment or question. So, maybe ‑‑

>> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. My name is Dowd. I am from Senegal, West Africa. I do appreciate what you presented, interesting. However, I have a problem. Because you mentioned that (?) is for European people, and we are facing the same problems on the Internet. Threats are raising more and more, and we do need (audio breaking up) in Africa. So, my problem is how we can manage to implement them in Africa.

Myself, I am running a non‑profit in Senegal, and we are doing a lot of advocacy. We are doing a lot of raising awareness. We are educating kids, others, professionals, on cybersecurity and how they can stay safe online, okay? So, this is very interesting.  And we did more.

Recently, I was in Ivory Coast, and we created a very interesting game to educate kids on digital aspects and on cybersecurity, too, with some friends. Maybe I will have the opportunity to share that. We call it Learn By Play.  So, it is in local language in Ivory Coast.

And we have more ideas, like the materials that has been presented by Sofia. But we're stuck. We're stuck on funding, how we can implement those ideas, even the game. I'm talking about how we can multiply it. So, this is very important for us. So, this program needs to be implemented in Africa.

You are talking about organizing the Safer Internet Day. Yeah!  We can do it!  But we still have some challenges. Thank you. 

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: Thank you very much. Sabrina, maybe you would like to address this question. It is a pity Manuela is not here, however, I think the main idea of this session was to share with you the resources that we have, but also, there are lots of opportunities to join the effort within the Safe Internet Plus Program, but also, we are here to be able to cooperate and find some solutions to bring us to the network closer and closer. Sabrina, maybe you would like to add something. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Yes, thank you so much, Anna. I think what you mentioned, it's really important. So, of course, this pre‑event was just an occasion for us to present the work we're doing here in Europe. But as you have understood, it is, of course, this is a global concern. And of course, financially speaking, this is really important to have funding. And of course, this is something that might be still lacking around the world. But of course, on occasions like the mentioned Safer Internet Day, we would be more than happy to collaborate with you to see what we can do and also the resources that have been presented to you ‑‑ these are all open resources for you to take into account, for you to share at national level, for you to translate to localize. I think this is what we're trying. And of course, we are trying through events like the IGF to connect at a global level and try to find ways to help also organizations that, of course, we know how important funding mechanisms are. Of course, try to support as much as possible in those countries where there are not these funding frameworks in place yet.

As you have maybe also understood from the presentation, there are various different ways. Of course, the funding coming by the European Commission is really valid and very important, but there are also other ways. And colleagues on the call and also colleagues in the room have, I think, gave maybe some inspiration on collaborations they're doing also with national policymakers or industry partners. So, I think this might have triggered some ideas, but we definitely westbound happy to connect with you and also to see how they can support putting efforts and work forward in Senegal.

And most importantly, we are very happy to give you and support your visibility of your action arm, as you have seen the Better Internet for Kids Portal and Safer Internet Day lets us give words to the work happening on global level on this matter.

Of course, if any of my colleagues on the call would like to add, please feel free to do so.  And if not, just to see if there may be any other comments or questions in the room. I know we are running a bit out of time, but maybe one more question. 

>> AUDIENCE: Good morning or good afternoon for everybody. My name is Peter King (?) for the records. I’m the National Safer Internet Coordinator in Iberia. We have been funder of hosting the Safer Internet Day regularly. Also, as he was saying, my brother from Senegal was saying, that the level of funding or the need to fund or collaborate in terms of implementation, these are important in terms of how we want to create a platform to educate, to advocate, create awareness to our local people on the ground, so adding more voice to him as someone already taking the lead in terms of having more than four events of Safer Internet Day. We feel it has been a struggle in terms of not only waiting for funding, but to implement. 

We believe more people in Africa ‑‑ digital literacy is very low, but we believe we deliver an advancement in Europe and (audio fading in and out) this very good concept that for me, we signed up for it, on the map in terms of the safer Internet is map, Insafe, and we have been recognized as one of the hosts in Africa. And we believe this is a very good initiative. The open-source material we have been printing on our own and sharing amongst students every year in February. The new core has come to us again. We are using this as a platform to appeal or plea that, yes, it is taking place gradually and (audio fading in and out) raised an issue that we can reach more people in our country in terms of developed countries like ‑‑ (inaudible)

>> JULIA PIECHNA: Thank you very much. It is really good to hear you have organized Safer Internet Day, because first it was only in Europe, but it crossed European borders a long time ago. It is now organized in more than 100 countries across the globe, so, thank you very much. If there are any questions. Yes, we have one more. Please, yes. We still have some time. 

>> AUDIENCE: Hello. Thank you very much for your presentation. I was wondering how you deal with the refugee children and their safety online, especially that their challenges can be sometimes different. In Poland, people come from Chechnya and Ukraine and other regions, and the mental health is already drained of very young people, so I don't know if there are elements to your programs that address the situation, or are they addressed the same as everyone else? Thank you. 

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: Yes. Thank you for this question. From the very, very beginning, we hired in our helplines, we learned a lot about the helplines, so we give support for all the mental issues, all the issues coming from the Internet threat area. So, we hired Ukrainian experts, because together with children, many other people come, like psychologists, teachers, therapists, consultants. So, we have in the helpline people with Ukrainian language giving kids support. And we also translated all of the materials that we could within the last few months into Ukrainian. We distribute them in schools. And all of our events, dedicated both to children and to teachers, we provide the Ukrainian translation. So, also, we had lots of teachers from Ukraine coming to our conferences, both online and offline. And they get all the resources that they can use. It's actually a very difficult situation right now, and we try to search for support from all sides. We do what we can in the view of Internet safety. 

>> JULIA PIECHNA: We are also looking for some partners in Ukraine. For example, during our September conference, international conference, keeping children and young people safe online, we had a partner from Kiev. It is a Ukrainian organization, Stop Sexting. And they promoted this conference in Ukraine. And it was also translated into Ukrainian language. So, we are doing what we can. (Inaudible)

>> AUDIENCE: Thanks. There is a description for ‑‑ (inaudible) I will speak in French. I am (?). I come from Ivory Coast, Manager of Program ‑‑

(Speaking French)

98% use mobile phone to navigate on Internet.  Problem –

(Speaking French)

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: It's the big issue with the smartphones. I think Sabrina would be the best to answer you now, in French. Maybe Sabrina can deliver some translation for the audience. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: I'm afraid I cannot. I cannot translate and deliver my response in French. And we couldn't see the transcript, unfortunately, as well.  So, if you could maybe repeat the question. I understood something, how we are informing the parents about the social media use of their children. If that is correct? 

>> ANNA RYWCYNSKA: I think that we have support ‑‑

>> JULIA PIECHNA: Translator in the room. 

>> AUDIENCE TRANSLATOR: I'm not really great at translating, and I hope it's fine that I talk in English because my French kind of sucks when I speak. But I'm also a big Youth Ambassador you heard a lot about Better Internet for Kids, so maybe I'll just try my best.

So, by educating parents, we sometimes also try to do that via the young people so that kind of, like the people who are actively using it, and we learn a lot about the problems and we try to also reach the parents via the school. So, yeah, just try to have the students teach their parents as well, so that is like one thing we are actively trying to do, because yeah, what you said. It's like really big problem.

But we see also from, like the work, especially like in Germany, that some of the parents, they kind of ‑‑ when, like, their children turn 14, they kind of stop caring so much about what they are doing online because they say, I really don't understand what they are doing, so, yeah, just do whatever you want, and that's something we try to sensiblize them. So, I hope this kind of answered your question. 

>> JULIA PIECHNA: Thank you very much for your help. I think here on site we have to finish because there will be another session just in a few minutes. (Julia speaking) So, from our side, onsite people here, we are thankful that you are all gathered here in such a big group. Thank you for your participation and, yes. 

>> SABRINA VORBAU: Thank you so much from us as well. It was lovely interacting with you and I wish you fruitful continuation of the conference. We are hosting two workshops tomorrow, one on online gender‑based violence and one on disinformation, so I hope you join us again to continue the discussion. Thank you very much.