IGF 2023 - Day 0 - Event #201 Future Network System as Open Platform in Beyond 5G/6G Era

>> IWAO HOSAKO: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this session.  My name is Iwao Hosako of National Institute of Information and Communication Technology Japan.  And we organized the session and we would like to start this session.  Session name is Future Network System as Open Service Platform in Beyond 5G/6G Era.  At the first of this session, we would like to -- on behalf of the organizer, we would like to greet, greetings from the NICT Vice-President.

     >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.  I'm honoured to be here at the first of today's panel discussion representing the National Institute of Information and Communication Technology, NICT. 

     I would like to extend a warm welcome to all of you and I would like to have this opportunity to engage in meaningful discussion on this important topic.  We are taking advantage of this wonderful opportunity at the Internet Governance Forum, IGF, is being held in Kyoto where we can reflect on the future of network systems and I look forward to channeling new directions.  Our theme for today is Future Network System as Open Service Platform in Beyond 5G/6G Era.  This theme explores how information and communication services will invoke and create new values through open innovation. 

     We have assembled a distinguished panel of experts from around the world to explore this critical topic.  And I believe that together we can gain valuable insight.  Today discussion have the potential not only to ensure the future of communication system but also surface a common understanding of information and communication policies and to research directions worldwide.

     NICT would like to play a relevant role in research and development for the realization of Beyond 5G and to enhance international coordination in this field.  However, in order to achieve this important vision, stakeholders worldwide need to share a common vision and work together.  Therefore, in today's panel we aim to integrate the diverse perspective of Beyond 5G experts from around the world to deepen our understanding and foster collaborations. 

     So let's start today's discussion.  I look forward to hearing your valuable insight and opinions.  Thank you very much.

     [APPLAUSE]

     >> IWAO HOSAKO: Thank you very much for the very warm words from the Dr Igraki.  And I would like to move the next step, and I would like to hand over the mic to Dr Ishizu who will moderate the panel session.  Okay, Ishizu-san, please.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much, Hosako-san.  Yes, the session is Future Network System as Open Service Platform in Beyond 5G/6G Era. 

     So agenda is like this.  To begin with, I would like to introduce myself.  My name is Kentaro Ishizu.  I'm a Director of Beyond 5G Design Initiative of NICT.  And my background is wireless technology including spectrum sharing or communicative radio, heterogeneous networking and these kind of thing. 

     And I'm honoured to serve as a moderator of this important session and looking forward to discussions on this important topic with you.  Okay.  So now I would like to go into the session.  First I would like to explain the motivation of the session, and also I would like to present initial input on this topic.

     Okay.  So I'm moving into the -- on to the item number two.  Okay.  Motivation of the session.  Future networking systems with Beyond 5G/6G technologies are coming soon.  And the system would be composed of combinations of uncountable subsystems brought from many stakeholders from not only ICT industry but also across broad fields of industries.  New platform would be necessary to deal with such complicated systems.  The platform might be based on an open concept so that small-to-medium sized enterprises with cutting-edge technologies, such as Tier 2 or 3, can directly join the future ecosystems.  Moreover, even companies in developing countries could have opportunities and motivations to naturally and easily join the ecosystems.  This is very important. 

     So this session would like to focus on visibility of the new platform in the Beyond 5G and 6G era.  Not only advantage, but also concerns or issues must be there so we need discussions.  Discussions are required based on experience and knowledge from various professional activities and different regions.  As you can see, we have distinguished panelists from different continents.  I'm really looking forward to the discussion.

     So I would like to now introduce the distinguished four panelists.  First, Ms Thabisa Faye.  She is a Councillor for Independent Communications Authority of South Africa.  The second panelist is Mr Abhimanyu Gosain, senior Director at Institute for Wireless Internet of Things, Northeastern University, USA.  The third panelist is Dr Marja Matinmikko-Blue, Research Director at University of Oulu in Finland.  The last panelist is Professor Tony Qwek, Professor at Singapore University of Technology and Design.

     First I would like to input some information.  And then I would like to ask for -- ask the panelists for a presentation.

     Okay.  So NICT is National Institute who have R&D and ICT. We have around 700 researchers in ICT area.  NICT has set Beyond 5G as one of interdepartmental research areas.  My input is about the vision and R & D activities of NICT, especially regarding concept of open service platform.

     Okay.  So NICT has published Beyond 5G/6G white papers.  The first version was published in 2021.  And the latest version is '23.  The latest version was published in this March.  The contents are result of discussion with more than 100 volunteer researchers in NICT.  The white paper start with five scenarios of future life in 2030s.  Then by back casting from the scenarios we have categorized key technologies and strategies to tackle current R&D topics.

     Okay.  So there is nice video.  And we have a nice video envisioning actually the future life described in the white paper.  I think it is better to show this video rather than explain by myself.  So I will please take a look.  It takes like just two minutes. 

     (Video)

     >> The technology of NICT will shape the future.  Let us take a look at how NICT will play a part in our lives to come.

     (Non-English).

     (Captioned video)

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  What do you think?  There is a very new type of life is waiting for us.  And our new technologies must be there.  So we need to talk of those technologies.  Okay.  So I would like to explain that structure of white paper.

     First, we have scenarios and based on the scenarios we have use cases.  Each of the three scenarios has a number of use cases.  Each use case summarizes a system to be used and their details.  Each key technologies summarizes technology to be used in the future and why it is needed.  Current status and so on.  This is how the white paper is organized.

     And now I would like to briefly introduce the scenarios of the white paper.  Scenario one is a diary of a director working from a manufacturing company.  In this scenario people come in remotely on cybernetic avatars or human type robots. 

     And then next one, scenario two is focusing on working style when people go to the moon and conduct underground material survey and so on.  So on the moon, we send avatar to the moon.  We send avatars and then we control remotely so that we can work from the moon -- from the earth.

     The third one is regarding our activities area.  And we are extending our activity area from the ground to the 3D area.  And we are going to use drones more actively, sky-cars or sky-trucks and so on, so many things going flying.

     And if we think about the future, we also need to highlight the shadow part of the future.  This is a message that Beyond 5G has such perspective, not perfect as we show in the scenario 1 to 3.  We would like to extend our discussion to ethical, legal and social issues in addition to activities. 

     Scenario 5, last one focuses on more into details of human life where a new working style is going to be changed by using perfect research resource matching by cross-industry orchestration with AI.  Those are scenarios.

     And maybe you think this is really fantasy, but actually these are not fantasy.  We have some evidence.  And based on the evidence, we imagine the future and that is how we have both scenarios.

     Okay.  These are key technologies for Beyond 5G we have extracted from the scenarios.  And T1 to T3 are across radio access and networking technologies.  T4 is monetization of networks, so called MTN technologies. T5 is a technology for space-time synchronization.  We need a precise location and time to enhance the application and communication.  And T6, datawide security and reliability.  T7 is regarding innovative application.

     And as such, the technologies are so distributed for Beyond 5G.  This implies that systems are going to be increased and not easily composed as one system, one box.  That is why we need the following discussions.

     Okay.  This is another important concept of Beyond 5G.  Cyber-physical system or CPS.  Physical space is the real world where human beings are really living and cyberspace is emulated world realized on computers.  In the physical space there are so many communication systems and application systems out there.  Such as networking system like satellites or airplanes.  And also on the ground, there are new wireless systems.  For example, using terahertz band and such systems will be -- will appear.  Then sensing data is sent from the physical space to cyberspace.  And then in the cyberspace the data is accumulated, analysed, and the future will be predicted.  And then the cyberspace actuate the physical space for optimization.  And the important thing is the circulation of the cycle.

     The one cycle is not -- maybe it is already realized.  And the saturation of the sensing and actuation is important and it is realized by -- not by human, but by machine.

     Okay.  So who creates the Beyond 5G system?  It is too complicated for a single organization to build up a whole system by itself.  It is already difficult now, but in the future it is much more complicated.  So it is already -- it is completely difficult for one organization to realize the system.  So different organizations including operators, providers and individual need to bring their own subsystems and somehow we need to combine the systems.  This is the important concept.

     And this is the -- I think most important slide in my presentation.  Concept of cross-industry orchestration.  As you can see, in the left-hand side, there is mobile operators.  There are mobile operators.  And in the future to enhance the spectrum sharing efficiency, for example, or to realize new applications we need -- they need to collaborate each other.

     And also, if you look horizontally, another industry like satellite communication or metaverse, or maybe it is not shown but, for example, drone controlled system or traffic management system maybe.  Or another systems in, for example, medical system or other things I don't know, maybe smart cities.  Another industry also need to collaborate each other.  So that is why we have orchestrated in the upper part.  And by this, there might be opportunity for everyone including small, middle, enterprises to join this world. 

     And optimized combinations of subsystems can be found by algorithm maybe in the orchestrater.  The orchestrater may use some AI algorithm.  The more systems are connected, there will be the more service combination will be.  So that is how -- that is why the concept is very, very important for the future. 

     Okay.  And Beyond 5G architecture for open service framework is now under consideration in NICT.  Also, we broke down the concept and really designing the functions and interfaces of those functions.

     You can see the orchestrater is as I explained, but also you can see service enabler.  From users, it is very difficult to understand everything about the cyber-physical system because there are so many complicated systems.  So it is hard for users to understand the systems, service systems. 

     So there is some function, we call it service enabler.  And service enabler receives the request from users and communicated with the orchestrater to realize that -- to meet the requirement from users.  And anyway, we are now investigating the details of them and designing proof of concept system to discuss with many stakeholders.

     Okay.  This is my presentation.  Now I would like to ask for some talks from the panelists.  From panelists closer to me, okay.  So I will switch to the presentation.  Okay.  Could you start your talk.

     >> THABISA FAYE-MWANGI:  I'm just waiting for it to come up.  Thank you very much.  Good afternoon, very late afternoon to everyone in the room. 

     My name is Thabisa Faye-Mwangi.  I am from ICASA, which is the ICT regulator in South Africa.  I serve as a councillor there.

     This afternoon I will just briefly give you the regulators' perspective but also the African perspective on where we are with regards to Beyond 5G.  And I think we provide a very different perspective in terms of our readiness, our participation as well as the challenges that we see would impact the developing nations.

     So just a brief introduction around myself.  Like I said, I'm a councillor at the regulatory authority in South Africa.  I have an extensive professional background in management consulting prior to joining the regulator last year in December. 

     My areas of interest are in ICT and renewable energies and their socio-economic impact on the current context and the future that we are all trying to shape and influence.  I have a working knowledge in 18 African countries in the Sub-Saharan region, but I do have exposure to a lot more.  I think I can firmly say that I do speak for the African or at least the Sub-Saharan African context.  Next.

     All right.  I just want to quickly touch on future networks Beyond 5G.  And really for developing nations, and I would say the developing African nations, this is an inevitable reality.  But when we get to participate and how we participate is really what is under debate.  So we know that there is the potential to unblock immense development and growth for developing nations.  South Africa is no exception to this.  While increasingly more African countries have access to 5G spectrum with South Africa coming to the market during COVID through temporary spectrum assignment.  And more recently, licensing through an auction in March 2022.  The cost of rolling out 5G, however, is what has really hamstrung the true impact or realizing the true impact of 5G in South Africa.

     The second challenge that has been seen is more around the infrastructure, the supporting infrastructure that is required for this to be realized.  And this is mainly around electricity and the current electricity crisis that we are having.  As much as we want to leave no one behind, the economic feasibility of rolling out across the nation is one that is rather distant at the moment.  The energy costs in the country, the energy costs in a country battling with a national energy crisis and rolling blackouts and the energy consumption and consistency that's required to sustain these kind of metrics is something that is not yet feasible in South Africa.  But it is not so distant and not something that we have not tried despite all of the odds.

     This doesn't stop us, like I say, from participating.  We continue to shape and share the African insights and future networks stand to have a great impact on agriculture, which remains to be a big contributor towards a lot of the GDPs in African countries.  I think as I go through the slide, also at the end of the slide I will just share a bit of what we envision it looking like or rather what I personally envision it looking like. 

     So unlocking the value chain of agriculture and all vertically integrated industries would exponentially increase the economic value of agriculture.  One of those vertically integrated industries is banking and finance.  Including and bringing into the circle more economic participants, and active participants at that, which continue to be increasingly powered by ICT innovation.

     And then we also look at safety and security and future metrics which will determine user uptake and user base.  And lastly, I spoke about the electricity crisis just now.  And this is what really is one of the greatest impacts around us getting towards Beyond 5G.  Earlier this year at the 5G huddle that was hosted in Singapore, we spoke quite extensively around the energy constraints and difficulties in rolling out and how we cannot really move to 6G if we haven't solved for the energy demands of these metrics.

     And in doing so, if we want to do that, if we push ahead with 6G in its current prototypes or pilot forms, we risk leaving behind the developing African nations. 

     I think before I go into this slide of just explaining the African context, I want to paint a picture of what future metrics could do for an African individual, or a South African individual. 

     My father lives in rural South Africa.  He refuses to move to the city.  He works and he still lives in his rural home.  But one of my father's things that he does is he is a farmer of sheep.  He has more than 200 sheep.  And every year he needs to sheer those sheep and sell the wool.  It is his, you know, subsidiary income to being able to grow his livestock.  But once he's sheered those sheep, he needs to load the wool into a truck.  And there are four cooperatives, all around 200 or so kilometres away from his house, all of which he needs to travel to to get an assessment of his wool and then get a price.  And then he will sell to the best offer. 

     Now, imagine if he could sheer his sheep or even before he sheers his sheep drones could come and take samples of the wool and take them back to the cooperatives or do the analysis and then be able to then give him the price before he goes out and has to travel 600 kilometres round trip on a single day.

     So that for me is how I envision the impact of future networks in an African context.  It would increase my father's economic participation immensely and decrease his costs.  It would save him time and it would allow him to grow his livestock to an even greater number and contribute.  And secondly, it would then also then stimulate the subsidiary industries, the vertically integrated industries.  The agri-processing, the textile industry, et cetera. 

     So I'm going to quickly go through the African context and really what this is is around what are the greatest impacts for us.  And I've just highlighted a few impacts.  Six impacts. 

     The first is the economic growth and the economic participation by increasing the buying power and accelerating the economic participation of all.  Secondly is infrastructure development.  Being able to maintain and expand essential infrastructure for -- to sustain these networks.  And then digital inclusion.  This is so important.  And really it is the one thing that underpins anything that we do in terms of future networks.  It is the fundamental development imperative. 

     Secondly, collaboration and shared resources.  We can not do this on our own strength.  And it is not just about collaboration in government, but it's collaboration in the private sector.  So the big private players taking on and creating space for the small/medium enterprises.  As well as, you know, the regulator being more open and transparent in how we do things to allow a greater participation with industry, having a light touch approach to how we regulate.  And sharing and leveraging of resources such as research and development.

     And then being an innovation enabler and creating a conducive environment for innovation to thrive.  And that comes from policy and regulation and how we shape and position ourselves.  And lastly around sustainability.  Creating shared value for future generations to come.

     And next slide.  Here I have just highlighted some of the challenges that we see, and I think I have spoken to some of these in my earlier slides. 

     The first is affordability, the cost of rolling out these future networks and establishing them.  When you come from a country with so many competing interests, you know, when you are talking about what we term in South Africa stomach politics, poverty, unemployment and, you know, just having basic essentials.  The affordability and the cost factor becomes a huge hindrance for us. 

     And then security and privacy.  So ensuring that we are not only just, you know, building these networks with a secure by design framework but also ensuring that we understand how the open systems work.  That we understand how we are going to regulate the open systems and we position the regulator and the policy makers to be able to stand in that gap and provide that assurance.

     The regulatory frameworks, the agility of regulatory is something that is slowly coming in to the African context.  And so we are hoping that with the introduction of the agility it would change a lot of the regulatory frameworks and how we choose to regulate.  And infrastructure deployment, which I think I have spoken extensively to. 

     So open system platforms.  I think for me I just picked four of what I think would be the biggest advantages to these platforms.  The first is intra-operability.  Especially when you are talking about spectrum and it being such a scarce resource.  So the ability to share the spectrum.  A lot of countries, mine included, we do not support spectrum sharing or spectrum trading and that becomes a massive legal issue.  It is about protecting the value of the asset and giving the regulator the power to still have control over the radio frequency planning.  However, you know, there are ways to get around it and think about it to promote economic viability, et cetera. 

     The second is about scalability and flexibility.  So being able to scale at our own pace.  Being able to adopt things that are within the context that they going to be used in. And then around the ecosystem growth.  I spoke earlier about collaboration.

     And I will close off just now around collaboration and having the vibrant ecosystem that creates a space for small/medium enterprises.  And then lastly, around security and privacy.  The promotion of security by design, you know, to reduce the regulatory framework expectations and limit the instances of reactive regulatory instead of proactive.  The use of agile and innovative regulatory tools.  And I will speak in the next slide about that. 

     And in South Africa, you know, we do have the legislation around privacy and protection of data.  But what we haven't quite wrapped our heads around is how we are going to regulate the systems, the data systems that are going to be, you know, running or fuelling Beyond 5G networks.

     And next slide.  Then in my last slide, I just touched a bit about cross-sectoral collaboration.  And really I think this is so important for the developing nations, especially in the African context.  There are regulatory considerations that need to be put to mind.  And how do we create that agility?  How do we make ourselves relevant?  We don't necessarily have the budget for a full-scale R & D.  And so what do we do with what we have considering the competing interests? 

     And so sandboxes come to mind.  You know, trying to start using regulatory sandboxes, inviting the private sector to do their tests and run the regulatory compliance in those sandboxes and for us to then feed off the research and the development that comes out of that.  It is a quick win in terms of R & D when you don't have the budget.

     And then digital transformation.  And really this is around the localization of data.  So ensuring that we have African solutions for the African context.  The monetization of models, and this is around diverse revenue streams and shared revenue models.  Being able to have a transparent framework around that.

     Market competition.  I think one of the greatest things when it comes -- when you want to have transparency is we have a competition regulator.  The competition regulator immediately thinks collusion, collusion.  And that is not always the case.  So having healthy market competition which breeds innovation. 

     And then lastly, global connectivity.  I have spoken about the competing interests that are the centre of a lot of African countries.  Being able to tap into international research and international value chains to leverage the research that we are doing and to power how we move forward is very important for us.  Thank you.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Next we move on to Gosain-san.  Okay.  Now it is okay.  Perfect.

     >> ABHIMANYU GOSAIN: I would like to add my welcome to this panel session.  Thank you for being here.  Appreciate the invite to NICT and the other sponsors. 

     Next slide, please.  So I'm Abhimanyu Gosain from Northeastern University out in Boston, Massachusetts from the U.S.A.  Just a quick introduction of myself and the perspectives I bring to this panel discussion.  And just a quick disclaimer that all of the views and opinions here are my own personal ones so please don't attribute those to any of the agencies that you see listed here. 

     So primarily I work with the National Science Foundation an applied research Projects for building future platforms for 5G/6G.  There's a flagship project called Power Platforms for Advanced Wireless Research which was a public-private partnership that I'm going to get into a little bit.  But primarily this was the foray for the Science Foundation and about 35 global industry countries to define and shape the vision of 5G.  So I will talk about some of the lessons that we've learned and how they could apply to the 6G era. 

     I'm also involved with the U.S. Department of Defense in their 5G future program as a senior advisor where we are shaping how does the U.S. military, the services adopt commercial technologies and dual-use technologies that could also be adapted for military construct.

     And then lastly, worked with the U.S. Federal Communications Commission on their 6G Technology Advisory Council as a Co-Chair, and then a few various other board appointments.  So the idea is to bring you a 360-degree view of what is happening at technology, policy and governance.  Next slide, please. 

     So a quick word about to know and understand where we are going we need to always reflect from the past.  And this is a programme that we have been working on now coming up on seven years where we set up a public-private partnership to develop an open programmable research platform to help shape the vision of 5G.  So this was a programme that was founded in 2017.  If you bring the clock back, that was around the time that 5G standardization had already occurred.  The standards were in place, but the implementation prototypes and proof of concepts weren't still there.  And if you actually even look today in 2023, global adoption of 5G standalone architecture is still something that the mobile network operators are working on. 

     Again, I really appreciate the African context where that is still something that needs to be done.  But the idea was -- and, again, the dollar figures are quite nominal.  Just that is the first lesson that we learned that it will require a lot more investment to bring together multiple different stakeholders from industry, academia as well as from the communities that we intend to serve.

     Get a little bit more technical.  Next slide, please. We funded four research platforms across the U.S. and we are also proud to say that the blueprints -- and these are the words I'll say a lot in the time that's remaining -- the blueprints, the reference architectures that we have been able to develop, design, implement have been adopted by our partner research groups and public-private partnerships across the globe.  So in Europe, in Japan, in Korea, in Brazil.  We have been able to work with a very open mindset the ability to share how we are building a modular infrastructure architecture that allows for accelerated research adoption and the ability to onboard and build on-ramps for stakeholders who don't necessarily care about the network or the communication. 

     So we saw a future platform that we will talk about with multiple industries who frankly don't care about the network they use.  For them it could just be wi-fi.  The ability to move from a timely secure resilient manner is all they care about.  Wherever they get that, they will go there.  Our job is to develop and a push the agenda for mobile communications standards like 5G and 6G to be the choice. 

     The four platforms are across various application technologies.  The left, the platform at the University of Utah is primarily focused on core underlying software technologies and radio technologies like massive MIMO which allows for a large number of scaling of antennas to serve a very diverse region very effectively from a single antenna system.

     The other one, Cosmos in New York City, is mostly focused on smart community.  Deployed in downtown Manhattan.  Focusing on millimetre waves and optical communication and how does that connect back up to smart communities and smart intersections, for example.

     The third one is focused on -- I appreciated your future vision of drones flying out for farms, and that is conducting research and onboarding nontraditional industry partners that are using the UAS.  And we are connecting the mobility patterns with the communication technology.  So building an entire UAS unmandated aerial system that is fully outfitted with a 5G radio and that is a system that can then be deployed for various use cases.  Be it agriculture, be it transport, be it delivery, or even for communication for fixed backhaul and integrated access and backhaul. 

     Last, but not the least, and this sort of resonates quite closely with me as well, is around rural broadband digital inclusion.  The last test platform out in Ames, Iowa, which is in the middle of the US.  Very heavily dominated by farmland.  And the spirit of this particular test bed was to develop a farm as an anchor which was the ability to outfit connectivity across multiple hundreds of miles using technology, so focused on free space optical communication, microwave backhaul technologies.  And the underlying theme for all four of them is an open modular architecture that we have developed. 

     Underneath that, there is an asset that we've also inherited and developed called Coliseum, which is a large-scale channel and network emulator.  This I would encourage you to view this as a digital tool.  This is the version where the physical systems that you see that have been deployed in geographically diverse contexts are now taken into the virtual world.  So this is a network emulator that allows us to build digital versions of the channel, digital versions of the network, digital versions of the physical locations; and then be able to do early prototyping, validation, testing, modeling in the emulated environment.  And then as a closed loop feedback bring that learning back into the physical environment.  So this is sort of helping us close that divide.

     Next slide, please.  So this is again -- now this slide is primarily more from the policy side.  And this is the motivation that the US DoD, which is a huge juggernaut and, frankly speaking, a very large customer for commercial adoption of Beyond 5G kind of technologies.  And the idea here is to leverage the billions of dollars that are being invested and will continue to be invested in developing the telecommunications standard.  So the idea is how does the DoD -- and this is not -- I want to be very clear, this is not with a war fighter mentality -- this is primarily looking at DoD as an enterprise because they have multiple application use cases and they fed very nicely into the vision that was presented by NICT earlier where DoD is a logistics customer.  They want to use AR/VR and XR for training purposes. 

     So view that as a context that the US DoD is trying to adopt the vision for 5G.  And that has happened by installation at 14 US Army bases that are located in the continental United States where experimentation with 5G technologies is ongoing.  And then there is a separate office for future which is trying to understand how does the DoD requirements get inserted in the standardization framework.  And I think that will also be important when we talk about a future test platform.  Because that has to be the springboard from which standardization takes place because that is a common platform where data test results are produced, validated, and can be mutually agreed upon when you move into the standardization phase, as we will do for 6G in about two to three years which is when the technical performance requirements of 2030 are going to take place.

     Next slide, please.  This is the two by two -- for future G systems.  So we talked about the different industries.  So we are here looking at different kind of use cases that we feel will be motivated.  And again, as you see on the X axis you're looking at enterprise and mobility.  So the extreme mobility use cases are to the right.  More fixed on the enterprise side are on the left.  And then you also are moving from the equipment, which is the physical infrastructure, up to more of the extreme environments and the software-isation elements that will need to be considered.  So this is sort of kind of my distillation of the earlier slide that was presented by NICT which showed sort of the stovepipe different kind of industry mappings.  Next slide, please.

     So again, I think the world is programmable, the world is virtual.  The architectures are also moving in that direction.  5G has shown us, the deployment of 5G, the deployment of virtualized and programmable networks and we're going to hear a lot about open radio access networks and what that brings to the table.  This is sort of just our -- kind of an academic version of how different modular elements in an entire network system -- and just to spell it out for everybody -- starting from the device to the edge.  And the edge would be mobile itself. 

     It would also be stationary or there could be a point cloud at the edge.  And then you move into the core network.  And then you move into the wide area system where different cores could also be interconnected.  And the idea here is both horizontally and vertically on the protocol stack we need open interfaces where you now have the ability to insert, depending on what quality of service, quality of experience you are trying to reach, build a spoke network for every individual. 

     The analogy is that 5G today is building an interstate highway for every consumer, which is not sustainable.  Now with 6G, we have to be much more adaptive.  And all of this is going to distill back down to the energy point that Thabisa was making which resonates very clearly with us because energy efficiency is going to be important, not over-provisioning our networks.  And then having intelligence built into all of the four different elements I talked about from the edge to the transport network to the core network and to the wide area network.

     Next slide, please.  So these are -- this is just a, you know, a kind of notional view.  This is where sort of the academic and the industry worlds are sort of merging in from the top down.  And the top is the orchestration piece.  You see multiple different interfaces southbound through the infrastructure and to the different network elements that will need to be controlled. 

     You're going to need to have life cycle management.  You're going to need to have continuous integration and development as well as the concept of network slicing which is going to continue, in my opinion, into the era of 6G which is the spoke customized network experience and building the underlying infrastructure and the different network functions required to meet whatever needs are going to be.  Next slide, please.

     One -- just last couple minutes that I have.  A kind of a plea to those who are building platforms and sort of our perspective at least on the US side is looking for a uniform platform for kind of for automation.  And this has to be key.  Because AI is going to be inserted at each stage.  And the idea of being fully automated across the infrastructure, across the network functions that run on the infrastructure, and then the workloads that run on those network functions.  And those all need to be automated and be adopted to meet the user requirement that's present there.

     So in addition to that, you are also going to have to think about the capacity.  You're going to have to think about the latency.  You're going to have to think about sort of the KPIs that are going to be important for these future platforms as we sort of build the best prototypes over the next 24 months.  Next slide, please.

     So okay.  This is kind of coming back again and shining light on the orchestrater.  Again, in this panel we are focused on the idea here is kind of the industry perspective to attract them, to have this kind of a global 10,000-foot view where different industries can mix and match and together you can develop different service combinations.  The availability is a parameter that is going to be very, very important.  The network needs to be available when you need it for the bits to go from point A to point B.

     Then there has to be resilience in that network.  And that will only happen if there is automation and resource optimization which also touches on the energy efficiency, energy consumption point.  And the intelligence is very, very important. 

     Security, privacy.  The ability to trust the data that was inserted at the source and to make sure that it is the same data that comes out on the -- at the destination.  And how are you going to make sure that it wasn't snooped on, it wasn't eavesdropped and you were able to operate securely through this commercial network.  And industry is going to be very, very astute and keen to make sure that the data that lives on that enterprise or that cloud is not manipulated at all. 

     Again, trustworthiness of the AI models that we use for each of those infrastructures is going to be very, very key.  And then the open and intra-operable standards that are going to define the next generation of future networks. 

     So with that, I will stop here.  Thank you for your time and attention.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much, Gosain-san.  Okay.  And then next Marja-san.  Okay, I think this is -- okay.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: Thank you.  My name is Marja Matinmikko-Blue, and I come from the University of Oulu in Finland.  And there I hold a research director position on the Focus Institute and I'm also Director of Sustainability and Regulation in our 6G flagship research programme.  That was the world's first research programme globally starting in 2018.  Next slide, please. 

     So we started this research already five years ago.  And from the very beginning, we took a multidisciplinary approach, combining technical research together with research from business and also regulations including contributions to regulation.  And this needs to be in multistakeholder collaborations.  So industry has always been part of our research.  We need to do it together to know the requirements, to know the technologic developments and really do cross-collaborate with the different companies as well as the public sector including the regulator. 

     An example of what we have done is we have been globally participating in the global 6G definition process at the ITUR, called INT 2030.  I don't have those figures here in this presentation because they are not agreed.  They were supposed to be agreed last week, but that didn't happen so they are not here.

     But I want to give you an example of a success story from before.  So you know local 5G network, you know private 5G networks.  We were talking about them and developing them already in the year 2016.  And presenting this idea that 5G spectrum awarding should not only be to the big network operators but also local licensing should be done and everybody was criticizing this.  But now it is a reality.  So it's an example of industry, academia, regulator collaboration which was then pushed to different forums of both research, industry and regulatory forums.  Next slide.

     So we did this world's first 6G white paper four years ago in September of 2019 as a collaborative effort with over 100 people including Japan and many other countries, industry, academia, some regulators were involved.  And you can download it on the Internet.  One of the key things there was that 6G is not only about the communication, transferring of bits, it brings together different capabilities including sensing, occasioning, positioning and all those things, computing and so on. 

     And that creates a platform which is capable to realize new services that we don't even know today.  So there will be a lot of different capabilities brought together by the network, by the devices.  The network can sense the environment.  It can create very accurate picture of the surrounding environment in real time capturing also the changes there.

     Next slide.  This is also from that same white paper.  We had a section about the business ecosystem and example of this multidisciplinary research, which is my favourite.  We see the world in such a way that it comes from different resource combinations, as we heard previously.  So different companies, organizations, individuals, they provide resources to the table.  Different users, user group and users, machines, consumers, public sector companies, they have different needs for the services.  They are often location specific.  Like this conference centre has a specific data in here, for example.  Locations, different locations like ports, harbours, traffic hubs and hospitals, they have their very specific needs.

     And today they are still -- like catered with traditional methods, but more and more location-specific needs emerge and also solutions to serve those needs are coming up.  They involve different stakeholders.  They involve different company combinations to serve those very different needs.  The same network can then serve different user group with different service level requirements and so on.  And we already see that changing business ecosystem. 

     So these new business ecosystems emerge around these different usages in the different locations.  We already see the changes in what companies are doing with these local 5G networks which most of the time are private networks or in a closed user group.  But they also could be open public networks that then serve different customers and so on.  So all of these different combinations are possible.  They are in different regulatory domains so there is a lot of regulatory burden here, but it is very different in the different countries.  I will skip that for this part.  Next slide.

     So the emergence of this large number of local 6G networks is kind of a natural step from what we see today.  So we believe that this will happen.  It is not just the mobile network operators who can deploy 5G networks today.  For example, Japan, Finland, Germany, US, many companies have made it possible for different stakeholders to apply for a radio permit to operate their own network.  It is very rare in 4G era, very few countries did that in the 4G era, but that is now happening without direct MNO involvement, but MNOs do it, too.  So there are many different ways to realize these networks. 

     But the divergence between the countries is huge.  So the spectrum is the key there.  And, for example, in Europe where you can now deploy a private 5G network.  It's very country specific.  Different in Finland compared to Germany.  But they are studying a common band so that there would be some level of harmonisation.  And how to realize this, large number of 6G networks.  Access to spectrum is a bottleneck.  It's based on sharing.  It's based on sharing between the local networks.  But also most likely sharing between the local networks and the existing users of the spectrum.  We know that spectrum is allocated to a variety of services.  Cleaning the bands is very challenging for 6G.  So gaining access to a spectrum through local, through shared access for local networks is definitely something that will happen in the future.  There are papers we did several years ago around this topic.

     Then go into the sustainability and the sustainable development.  So we know that the framework is there.  The United Nations are committed to achieving that.  Looks quite challenging.  And if you look at it from the ICT perspective, seven out of the indicators from the 230 indicators are ICT-specific.  Capturing things like percentage of schools with Internet access.  So they are not really the design criteria for 6G alone.  Of course, what is the minimum that needs to be met? 

     But for 6G we need to understand Sustainable Development from this triple bottom line of economic, social and environmental perspectives.  And that is what the community is now starting to do or trying to do.  But it is quite challenging because these perspectives are not so well known in ICT field and they are very much interrelated.  You can solve environmental, social, sustainability challenges if you had all the money in the world.  But mobile communication is not -- unfortunately, it is not charity.  It is business.  So it all depends on the money and the investment in the networks and the services.

     Next slide.  So in the first white paper from 2019, it was done in global collaboration.  One of the conclusions was that 6G should be driven by sustainability.  For example, by the UN.  I coordinated a white paper published three years ago about connecting 6G with the UN SDGs.  And we know this is from three or four years ago.  We have energy efficiency.  That is one indicator.  One environmental sustainability related indicator.

     Even if you improve energy efficiency, but if a total consumption still increases, it is not enough.  So when you talk about energy always have to have two indicator.  At least two.  Energy efficiency and energy consumption.  The total consumption.  Not just the bits and pieces, but the total energy consumption and optimize the operations and whole network design to minimize the use of resource.  Next slide.

     So these ICT sectors do a role in Sustainable Development is something we have to keep in mind all the time.  So yes, we can enable a lot of great things in the different sectors of society through making operations more efficient in an economically feasible manner.  This is the handprint and a lot of emphasis is yes, we help others but it is enough.  But it is definitely not enough.  The ICT sector own energy consumption keeps increasing.  It is not stabilized.  It keeps increasing.  And that energy is just one part.  But other environmental burden.  Other social burden.  The footprint part.  We have to really pay attention to that and luckily at least the companies are into this now.  The research community is doing this right now.

     But we are still far away from having the solutions.  But one thing we need to do is that we have to have these both worlds.  Not to explain away that our own helping others is enough.  So we don't need to do it, we do need to act and we do need to define together the indicators and the measurement methods and requirements for the solutions.  For example, in Europe, the European regulators were asked about the indicators of environmental sustainability for the ICT sector what they are using.  Most of them did not use anything.  Some countries had some ICT-specific environmental sustainability indicators.  We really are in the starting point of the process.  Next slide. 

     The key stakeholders, we all need to do something.  Users want to know what the impact of their choices is.  And users, when I talk to the younger generations, they want to know how much energy, how much greenhouse gas emissions of the use of an ICT device and the ICT service creates.  And the footprints are different depending on the device connectivity, I mentioned.  So you have to put the resources together.  And it is quite different depending on which resource combinations you use.  That is not available for the end user to see.  Not for the regulators to see so that they could direct this development.  And here the research community has a lot to give us bringing the unbiased research results in the table.  But for that, we need the data from the industry.  We need this real life data.

     Next step.  So for 6G.  ICT systems are a powerful measurement tool and can provide a lot of data about environmental sustainability and social sustainability and challenges.  All of the resources need to be used as efficiently as possible by optimizing the locations so what is done where.  Today the world like the leading countries in mobile communications are those that consume the most data.

     And that's far from being sustainable.  So we are leading something because we consume a lot.  That is not really sustainable.  So we actually need to have a whole new way of looking into what is a forerunner in terms of the ICT sector and mobile locations.  We have to minimize.  In the future we need to minimize the data we transfer or at least minimize the environmental and social impact that the transfer has.  That is quite a different design criteria for the future.

     And our sector is not the only sector dealing with sustainability challenges.  A lot of methodological development and indicator development, key performance and development happens in other sectors and requires a multidisciplinary approach and collaboration.

     Then I have an example of spectrum management.  My own research topic.  What sustainability means there.  Through shared access of spectrum you can gain access to spectrum, but it is not done today.  If you come up with a major wireless solution, you can only use unlicensed and it is really hard to get access to spectrum.  Local networks are starting to get that now, but we need the sharing based techniques.  It is also a regulatory challenge so we need to have those in the regulations.

     To conclude, remember that 6G is not only about communication service but brings together different kind of capabilities and brings powerful platform.  But it has to be optimized.  If it is just do as we did before, the consumption of energy will explode.  If we exceed the numbers of users increasing and data rates increasing so we have to do more efficient solutions.  And business ecosystems change.  Local 5G networks are already introducing local ecosystems around the different vertical use cases.

     And the same development will definitely continue.  That will open new business opportunities for different kinds of companies to operate.  And sustainability, that is a key driver.  There are many values like in 6G R & D we have values, like minded countries, they have shared values and sustainability is one of them.  And that is the umbrella term.  I like to use that as the umbrella because under that we have a lot of things including the bridging the Digital Divide.

     End users are forgotten usually in the process.  The mobile network operators say that they bring the end user perspective into the game, but they are not really there.  The developers aren't there.  So the developers of the solutions and services and applications, they aren't there.  It's still primarily dominated by the existing strong players and infrastructure vendors and operators who are there.  So therefore we need -- it is time that we considered this whole ecosystem and the stakeholder process that who are the stakeholders in the 2030s?  They may not be the ones that are strong today.  How do we include the new voices into this changing ecosystem and business environment so that the end users are really -- their voices are heard to a sustainable 6G.  Thank you.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much, Marja-san.  Okay.  Next one is Tony-san.  Okay.  Okay.

     >> TONY QUEK: I'm Tony.  I'm faculty in University but I'm also serving as a Director of Future of Singapore 5G Programme.  I just want to share the perspective from a small country. 

     We started thinking about this about 2019.  Our whole purpose at the end is what does it mean for us as Singapore, the economy impact, the social impact, and national resilience.  So I just want to share what particularly we look at around 2018.  Next slide.

     As I mentioned, so the initial investment is about 50 million US dollar of Singapore, $68.7 million.  The background was essentially we look at connectivity is going to be a foundation layer for a lot of services.  A lot of services Beyond 5G think about services that are important to Singapore because aviation is important.  Maritime is important.  A lot of services will be connected. 

     The geopolitical situation is something that we have to keep in mind, especially Singapore is a neutral position.  So how would that affect in terms of key technologies, how would it mean to have ecosystem in Singapore.  Investment in leadership role to so we can play a part in development with like-minded partners.  So this is some investment that we started.  Next slide.  So I will just skip this slide. 

     So just for the background for the audience.  Particularly we look at open RAN because essentially as was mentioned, how do we bring in Tier 2 and Tier 3 player into ecosystem.  Traditional RAN, you break it out in open RAN system, de-aggregation, there's multi-module, open interfaces.  That is where a lot of emphasis on software.  As we decouple the software from hardware, this is where some opportunities will come, especially for a player like Singapore.  Next slide.

     There is few areas that are potential research area.  I just picked three, there are a lot more. The next slide.  The first slide is on security and trust.  Not just security only but you need to be trustworthy.  So some of the security risk we look at.  Essentially a lot of systems are cloud-native.  How the cloud would be a security risk and how do we actually manage this?  A lot of vendors.  Security may not be the high priority list.  Performance, reliability.  How do you actually complement and help these vendors to actually improve their capability on that.

     One issue, if open RAN sees complexity increasing or sees especially with multi vendor the capability will be very important.  How do we play a role?  How do we automate some of this process? 

     Supply chain.  Especially with software in supply chain there is different vendor coming in.  It is good that talked about shared spectrum.  Essentially once we share across all these open platform systems what is the risk of the disruption of services.  This is something that have to keep in mind building this capability.  We look at it as how Singapore will use its neutral position to improve security and trust in this ecosystem and contribute.  So we play a role in platform reliance and evolution.  Next slide.

     The next area we want to look at is actually one powerful capability of RAN is the transparency to allow us to implement intelligence, AI and ML across the different services.  How do you really trust the model?  ML for advanced sustainability will be one of the key feature.  Essentially how do you actually test it?  How do you actually verify this?  How do you actually apply this across the different vertical services and capability across this?  This will be implemented across the orchestrater that was mentioned.  How do you benchmark as we have all about this AI assets across the different vendor.  Is there a common benchmarking?  Is there something that we mutually recognise?  So this is something that we have a lot of opportunities for us to create vertical services and be needle moving.  The next slide.

     Sustainability as we have to think about the infrastructure.  Singapore has recently announced the carbon tax.  We are going to rule out carbon tax down the road purely with some timeline.  As we implement what is private network and public network, we really have to think about sustainability and how does it capture the sustainability.  Are you consuming a lot of power?  How about the accessibility or the different requirements, energy efficiency come in to play.  So this is where we have to plan way ahead.  Work with the vendors.  It is a very green field for everyone.  So how do we be a leader especially for Asia.  I think Asia would have a particular role in sustainability as a service.  Something that we can leverage and work together.  Next slide.

     So we built a -- we -- in the beginning we need a test bed and around other service and make sure to work with the planners and bring the ecosystem to Singapore.  So these are some of the features we have already saw which are configurable.  Next slide.

     So we had this first open RAN network set up around 2021.  Once we start, we think about what an interesting use case we can work with the vendors and build up capability.  We go to the next slide.  One of the -- we can move to the next slide.  That's fine. 

     So we essentially started to build a drone arena.  We are close to the airport.  Plus our university is within 5 kilometre from China and a no-fly zone.  Like the drone and then the drone would not fly out.  This is where outside we have a private 5G RAN network.  We can do a lot of use cases look at company.  So this is where some of the use cases and metaverse could come in.  How would 3D network essentially play a role in this setup.  It's a small test place for us to look at.

     Because we are looking at cyber-physical concept.  So it could be a campus.  It could be a factory.  But as university you have a campus.  So we're thinking about how in the future you incorporate the cyber and physical.  Because COVID has forced us to really think about cyber world.  How would the virtual campus and bringing the capability to the campus and work with the faculty and students to understand, extend the AI personalized learning.  Then once we understand this and build capability, you can actually branch out to other sector.  Next slide.

     Metaverse has been talked a lot.  Thinking about what is the connectivity requires for this?  Because it is going to be a big impact across the different services.  Particularly Singapore, we actually have a consensus there how would it change the consumer market, how would it change the enterprise market, how it would change even the way different enterprise and different companies collaborate, translate and communicate. 

     Then how would connectivity play a role in the whole ballgame.  Sensors come in.  So this is a sort of a playground that we work closely with the different partners whether it is the platform and also the telco.  Next slide.  Some of the plans that we have currently with setting up to do measurement, to do testing.  Multi-vendor network.  Coordination of mmwave 2.5.  Unfortunately, telco has not deployed.  Essentially trying to understand even the service model.  Is it possible to deploy or orient mmwave together with conventional network is something we are working with them.  The use of digital twins.  And trying to expand the test place to include NTN.  Going to make a big business.  So something we are looking at.

     And trial technology.  Next slide.  One concept.  Or skip this slide.  I mentioned about the O-RAN.  The relationship O-RAN and NTN.  Especially from the transparent when we move to the regional satellite, one of the satellite has appreciate these to apply concept of O-RAN whether is the COD is there or different architecture.  So once that comes in, there is opportunities or even ecosystems trying to do testing around this NTN capability.  So this is what we wanted to do to prepare for the next phase when NTN is going to be around particularly around Asia and NTN.  Next slide.

     So this is concept that we wanted to push beyond the cyber physical campus is that we have invest so much sustainability is the key.  How do we leverage our investment together with like-minded partners.  So we had the first connection with the 5G/6G Innovation Centre at University of Surrey.  So we were looking at this process of VPN, how do we achieve and work on sharing resources, sharing testing, sharing measurement and also data.  How do we actually apply some of this federated model.  How do we think about language, distributed language model is also something that we are looking at.  And industry led.  So industry lead may not have to be collocated physically with us.  So how do we leverage on that and have access, remote access to it. 

     And how do we explore the different models.  SO this is something we are working with thinking about other optics.  That could be one.  Different models.  Something that makes sense because if we don't know about sustainability, it is good to leverage on the different advancements across different companies and countries so we have a common purpose and to share.  So this is what we want to push from the Singapore side.  Next slide.  Thank you.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much, Tony-san.  Okay.  Thank you for the panelists for the talks.  Okay. 

     So actually, I have prepared some questions for the discussions.  So could you show the questions. 

     I have came up with some discussion points, and I would like to start with these questions.  First I -- maybe you have already mentioned something about this, but I would like to ask again about expectations to the Beyond 5G/6G.  What are expected changes to the networking systems in the 2030s when fully utilized?  What are expected changes?  So I would like to -- maybe Gosain-san first.

     >> ABHIMANYU GOSAIN: Sure, I get the easy question here.  So it's artificial intelligence and machine learning, right, so that's sort of the low-hanging fruit.  I think what we are starting to see some of the emergence and dependence or kind of the forward integration of Artificial Intelligence moving from the compute side, the large language models, et cetera that is happening now moving into the network side.  The transport, as you call it.

     And then we are beginning to see that more natively on the interface side.  So from the spectrum sharing thing that was a common theme across all panelists, the idea that you have smart software-defined radios that have the intelligence already built in.  If you have a finer grain resolution on how you could control the spectrum that are available. 

     To get a little bit technical, the physical resource blocks on the spectrum in the time and frequency domain, how they could be shared, how they could be divided.  And then how does the radio interface sense and communicate on the same channel.  And how are those policies and how is that decentralized so you don't necessarily have a central authority.  Obviously that adds a regulatory headache in terms of how these systems are, first of all, understood.  So how is the AI explainable.  And then how do you essentially make sure that these network systems are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing.

     >> MODERATOR:

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Okay.  So who would like to answer next?  Okay.  Thabisa-san.

     >> THABISA ZIMBINI FAYE-MWANGI: Thanks very much.  I think for me it is something that I touched on a bit in my presentation.  I think the most important thing for us is around the intra-operability, so the spectrum sharing.  The ability to leverage the resources, expand the resources quite extensively and ensure that the spectrum is not only just for those who can afford it, especially if you use a process such as the ones South Africa did around auctioning. 

     It is about the deepest pockets and therefore you inevitably leave out the small players who actually bring the innovation, who bring the diversity in the market.  So for us, the expectations that we expect to see in these networking systems is around the diversity and the market participation with the small players. 

     And then the other point was around the localization of the data or the localization of the systems.  The ability for the systems to be -- to address those context in which it is working.  And that speaks to, you know, having the access to the global knowledge system.  But also being able to develop our own local knowledge systems in especially as a developing nation.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Marja-san.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: Combined the communication service with the other capabilities.  Sensing location, imaging and computing.  Those come together in 6G.  That's one of the changes that we are seeing that I was talking about.

     >> TONY QUEK: Maybe I'll add just a perspective.  With all these technologies, I think at the end we have to convince our people, convince our government agencies that we can generate social impact and economy impact.  We have to ensure that with all these new technologies, networking technologies coming in, especially for Singapore, the sector is still hit.  This is important whether it is open platform or intelligence platform, how would actually change our position, how do we be still -- and how do we fully utilize all these different technologies.  There is one of the key basis of which technology or which investment we put in.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Okay.  So to summarize, I get your comments.  So by going to 5G/6G you are going to have more advanced by expandable AI.  Also if we have more intra-operable scheme we can expect much more proper market and also maybe change the position of business.  These kind of things.  So if you have some questions from the floor.  Okay.  So as we are waiting for the questions. 

     To realize these things, what do you think about the example regulations?  Maybe we need to think about regulations.  And yes, of course regulation is necessary to be changed.

     But how should we think about this?  We need to change a lot actually.  So in my mind, it is very, very difficult compared with the things that we have done for this 2030 years.  Maybe we need a big change in the regulations.

     So what do you think about this?  Marja-san maybe first.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: The spectrum part is definitely one.  And we already see the divergence there.  Companies are assigning different bands for local 5G which leads to recommendation because the whole mobile communication is based on using the same equipment globally. 

     My phone works here.  So that was he whole point of the 5G systems.  The same should continue in the future.  It is a challenge because countries decide themselves how to do things.  And a lot of private networks operate under different regulations than the public ones .  The public networks have a certain set of rules that they have to follow but also have some kind of benefits that they then get from the data.  Different in Finland, in Europe and Asia and US. So very complicated.  So the same pieces of equipment work everywhere.  I don't envy the role of the regulator.  Maybe I will pass the mic there.

     >> THABISA ZIMBINI FAYE-MWANGI: I think you touched on a very important aspect around harmonisation and being intentional around harmonisation and standardisation of equipment.  One thing that the developing nations or at least in the African context are good at is really participating in the international debate and discussions.  So the WRC, the PP that happened last year, the ITU Council, et cetera. 

     However, anyone who has attended the sessions knows that it really is around the loudest voice in the room and the lobbying thereof.  If we don't keep the global development imperatives in mind we lose sight of what it is we are trying to achieve and get the lack of intra-operability and the lack of harmonisation, et cetera.  The fragmented spectrum use, et cetera.  I think that is very important in that, you know, impressing upon global regulatory bodies around the fact that we, you know, harmonisation is important for sustain and for accessibility in terms of cost and inclusion.

     The other aspect around the regulators role, and what you say you don't envy, which is now my daily job (laughing), it really I think for me is around dismantling regulation as we have known it. These are my personal views and not the views of South Africa. 

     I believe that we need to dismantle regulation as we know it.  What you previously and some countries still are in the Sub-Saharan region regulating for has become obsolete.  We no longer talk about the typical regulatory tools we used to have.

     You know, what was it, coal termination and all those things.  They don't matter any more.  Because we are seeing that what regulators are starting to do is to become more digital and technical type of regulators and they mandate -- the mandate is now more on research than it is around, you know, regulating the sector.  So they are setting the standard.  Setting the bar.  They are the ones determining how things should be done.  And so that is how I view the change in the regulator.  And with that, it will bring the agility that's required to keep up.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much. Gosain-san, if you have something.

     >> ABHIMANYU GOSAIN: Just to add, right.  So you can only -- and when we talk about scary things like AI and generative AI right now obviously is sitting in a different domain but it's going to creep up into the networking domain as well.  So how are decisions essentially made. 

     So a regulator's job is sort of learning on the fly and learning as things go along.  And that's why to tie this back to the panel discussion, that is why the platform -- a neutral platform that has somewhat of a metering of what is happening out in the broader deployment piece.  So if you can't measure it, if you can't understand what is actually going on, what the operators are telling you, what are other private deployments doing, how is spectrum being used, how are networks being used, how is data being managed, how are things being firewall protected, et cetera.  So I think you are essentially just reacting if you are not in lockstep with where sort of the networks of the future are going to be.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Okay.  So Tony-san, my image of Singapore is you are flexible about regulations.  What do you think about it?

     >> TONY QUEK: Actually, spectrum is very sensitive because we have neighbours.  And anything goes to the neighbours is always no good. 

     So I think the experience we did together, as you see the future, is you try to look at whether it works.  Look and see whether you can build an ecosystem which you believe will convince us.  Then slowly we bring in the telco.  It took us two years to get to convince the telco why don't we try something.  The telco says I don't -- why should I try to explore.  So I think the -- we see a new business model of the same concept what was mentioned.  A sandbox, but the sandbox needs to be realistic and cannot be too -- needs to be industry, academy and vendor insight.

     Once you bring that ecosystem, then you actually can convince policymaker to change a bit and try.  So this is what we have been trying to do.  Likewise, new technologies, MTM.  Something we really need to think about.  Same thing.  With the spectrum, the neighbours is probably gets across so many people.  What are the implications.  I think a sandbox is really important as we want to try out.  And then, of course, new business model could come in.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Okay.  Thank you very much.  Any questions or comments?  Please.

     >> AUDIENCE: I have two questions for your panelists.  Thank you for today.  Very fruitful and very informative session.

     My question is I'm wondering everyone talk about the spectrum harmonisation and mentioned some difference of the spectrum between Finland and Germany.  So maybe harmonise.  And some fragmentation.  And on the other hand, mentioned that this can be solved with the development and technology.  Software.  Technology might be give some integration of such information spectrum.

     And so I am wondering how they can solve this spectrum harmonisation across.  I would like some opinion and observation of that.

     The second thing is the number of standards in the 6G.  Because we are now standards developing from the 1G to 2G and 3G.  In this time we just have a few standards.  But in the 4G and 5G we have some several standards because of each requirement has, you know, each country has a proposed different standards according to their requirement.

     That's why there is a -- they need some standards for the competition.  The competition.  But on the other hand we might need not so many standard because of the mass production over manufacturing point of view.

     So I am wondering how many standards would be required that are most ideally for the development of the 6G.  Thank you very much.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Marja-san.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: The spectrum part is a challenge.  We already now see when we're starting to talk about 6G spectrum the views are so divergent.  Europe is already saying something that many countries don't want any spectrum for 6G.  And that is the big challenge that we face in Europe how to convince that there is the need and then what those bands are.  It is a debate which will happen in the coming years, and we all need to be willing to bring the facts on the table.  Not just opinion or wishes but pure facts that we know.

     So then I will reach out to the next one, that the standards part.  So 5G has brought maybe two standards.  The 3CP standards, which is the dominant one, and then there is the standard where the smaller players come together in the European Standards Institute.  There are also other proposals have been received to the global ITU process.  So those two exist. 

     both efforts are being sold, but we know mainly the 3CP.  That is where the big players are, that's where the big companies are.  They create those standards and they -- the IP games are played in that standards arena.  Those players who are within 3CP they say that they want one, just one 6G standard which is their standard.  Nothing stops other organizations or standards to propose 6G standards to the process once the requirements are defined.  Personally, I would -- I think there might be more proposals.  In 5G there were several accepted proposals.  One will be -- but the one should not stop others.  There is room for many kind of deployments.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Who would like to answer more?

     >> ABHIMANYU GOSAIN: So on the spectrum side, basically I think -- well, like it or not, WRC that's coming up in a month or month and a half, each Member State, each country is going in with a position that's been defined. 

     There will be some harmonisation, there will be some agreement.  And again, as you know, the WRC cycle, that will go out for the next four years of the next eight years, that agenda will also be set in November. 

     So, unfortunately, the spectrum story has to be very carefully constructed.  I think with 6G you are seeing the entrance of new players like the sat comm, the NTN, nontraditional networks, they will be included in there.  How do you harmonise with the third dimension.  Not just the terrestrial, but nonterrestrial element.  Not necessarily painting a very rosy picture on the spectrum front because that needs to be carefully coordinated.

     On the standards front, as Marja pointed out, the 3GP dominance and there has been this debate about whether 6G about will be an evolution.  That is a juggernaut.  It is, again, as she alluded to, on the IP side, you know, the game is all about the SEPs, the standard essential path.  That is where a huge amount of economic activity is generated.  That part is not going to stop.  That behemoth is going to go.  17 was approved in June earlier this year.  18, 19 study items have been defined and the 3GPP cycle says around the release of 21 time frame you are going to come up with the moniker.  Right now we are in 5G advanced.  So we're already moving.

     But the other part is standards are also -- if you really dissect the network, there are lots of different standardisation bodies.  There is ITF that talks about the transport fees.  There are entities that -- ISO that talks about security.  So you have to be very careful around how all of that is stacked.

     But if you just look at the wireless comms, the wireless communication side, Member States and different countries made their commitments and announcements and develop their own public-private partnerships and it has always been the struggle between the developing world where the cost of the devices is the key issue.

     And that is the key issue for adoption.  Because if there is a device cost that has a component or a chipset where you need to pay a royalty of hundreds of dollars that drives up the device cost and drives down or slows the adoption.  A key element that the developing world has to really think.  One of the motivating factors outside of lots of other factors that need to be considered as well.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  I need to think about the time actually.  So I move on to the next one.  Okay.  So I'm talking business issues. 

     So what is the new business model ecosystem to be created by Beyond 5G and 6G.  What type of disruptive progress is expected in the future business along with the shift to Beyond 5G/6G?  If you have any opinion.  Marja-san.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: Yeah, I have opinions, they are my personal opinions.  But there are many types of businesses to consider here.  One is the mobile communications connectivity business, what the mobile network operators offer.  So that is one part of the game.

     Another part is then the ecosystems that emerge around the different usages of the networks like the local networks.  Harbour areas, hospitals and so on.  Those will have their own ecosystems.  And the business model is the logic what is the value offer and who gets -- who -- what is being offered, who buys it and now -- so what for this kind of use.  Who are the stakeholders there who need to be in place.  One company.  Rarely involves just one organisation and they all need to get something for that.  Should not be based on one that the winner takes it all, but there should be some kind of balance where they all can support their businesses.

     Going back to the mobile connectivity business.  We have seen changes in terms of, for example, the number of operators per country.  Most countries started with one operator, the governmental operator and then gradually introducing the second one and then the third one and so on.  Went to the point in European countries there were five or six operators and auctions, the spectrum auctions.  Crazy amounts of money were bid on spectrum and led to a lot of like many operators suffering and then they started buying each other.  So the third and fourth merged.  So now there is a smaller number of MNOs in each country than there was in the high time.

     Now they are quite well established and claim they don't have money.  But in Finland, networking all make a good revenue and good profit.  They made good money.  So that business continues.  They still have licenses for long future to come.  So that business is there.

     What the revenues are in the future, they still get that money.  Monthly subscriptions.  5G is still based on monthly subscription fees.  The same building models there.  So this continues to continue at least for the future and that continues.

     Then when 6G comes, a new thing for the business.  That is unknown.  That is -- that is the unknown part where we need to look into what kind of new business could come.  One thing is that they will emerge around the different uses.  Who pays for what.  You get connectivity for free so not necessarily pay for that so much.  If you get something great with that you do pay for that in this addition to the subscription service.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Okay.  So you have --

     >> THABISA ZIMBINI FAYE-MWANGI: I think what we’ve started seeing with 5G in South Africa is seeing the use or the monetization of what we would term in universal access and service the true access gap.  Seeing a small/medium enterprises starting to -- start to get some economic value out of that true access gap.

     And the way that they have done that is by tapping into the network but also leveraging the obligations that came with the spectrum auction.  Starting to see new business models where the networks, the base stations are set up in schools so we are addressing those development imperatives. But then the networks serve the greater community and really the models are not to make the obscene profits that we see in bigger companies but rather to be able to sustain the development of another similar wi-fi project.

     So we have started to see that.  And South Africa in particular -- and I think another nation that has a similar topography is Rwanda -- but we have a vast amount of space to cover and really high mountains and low valleys.  And so having to, you know, get to coverages and then we have a lot of rural spaces.

     So where there isn't a lot of economic participation.  So covering that becomes extremely expensive and these community networks have really bridged the gap and they are slowly changing what we understood to be the business model in the sector and really coming in with economic participation in what we can -- I don't think we can for much longer call a true access gap any more.

     >> TONY QUEK: Maybe we share what we are trying to do.  We are trying to change the mindset of the telco and tell them that the subscription model is now going to work now.  Because all this is getting more expensive.  So the process we are trying to force them open -- is force them to build the capability of what telecom is trying to do so that eventually the market has to be outside Asia, outside Singapore.  In particular we're looking at Indonesia which is close to us.  Indonesia is one market.  Thailand and Vietnam.  So we hope that this will be a new business model for them.  This is probably a new business model but always very difficult to change a telco because they are so use to getting subscription.  There is some thing that we are trying to do from a government perspective and agency and national programme.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Actually, I have also questions, but it is better to go to next.  Number three.  Collaborations. 

     What are key items for the international collaborations to realize the Beyond 5G/6G as open platform, open service platform?  What will be the international collaboration?  If you have questions or comments?

     >> ABHIMANYU GOSAIN: Again, I think -- you know, first things first.  For international collaboration, you need a champion.  You need a public-private partnership or key stakeholder that actually is going to be representative or present somewhat of a unified opinion or unified viewpoint.  After you have had a kind of a national position then you are able to sort of communicate and the other thing is the communication has to happen between government to government.  Industry to industry.  And then at the research level between academics and researchers. 

     Obviously at the government level it is very sensitive.  Joint ministerial statements, et cetera.  Different politics are at play.  So the idea is at least in the formative stage when the next generation is still about 8-10 years down the line, you do want industry and academia to jump ahead.  And we have already seen that in the marketplace.  In the US, you already have the next G alliance where a large number of major vendors and operators are at play.  We have lots of different alliances including here in Japan the Beyond 5G Promotion consortia, which is mobile network operators and vendors that have gotten together.

     Same in Korea, India.  South America is sort of catching up.  Singapore, et cetera.  So we are seeing that as kind of the first piece.

     Then at the real collaboration level unless we have mobility and unless we have the ability to sort of get a peek into where the core competencies lie for each region.  Everybody plays to their strengths, but how do you do this in a complementary fashion so the sum is greater than the sum of its parts, right?  So one plus one is greater than two.  And that is sort of why we are even talking about collaboration infrastructure.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Any other comments.

     >> TONY QUEK: I agree with Gosain-san.  The national level there is always this initiative at top.  At bottom, our approach is actually two way.  Of course, academia and the professors and universities which want to do research which is a very long-term strategy.

     And at the same time, we are trying to also focus on the short terms in the sense that we have targets like platforms like NWC, like key events that we can actually show impact together to showcase some capability and this is something we are trying to do together with partners.  If we focus too much on the research part, sometimes the translation takes a bit long.  And sometime stakeholder may be quite impatient.  So we try to have a balance between them.  But at the end I think it goes back to the partners needs to have a common goal.  Complementary.  It is all about collaboration.

     So that one plus one is equal to three.  If you have this mind set it is always good because it is more sustainable work load than if you work alone.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: This collaboration is different depending on the level of collaboration or stakeholder.  The government is different from the researcher level collaboration.  The key thing that is first needed is the funding for the research.  And the research is done both in academic but also in industry.  Now we are in a good situation in that many countries have programmes for this.  The European Union has a programme for this.

     And many countries have their own ones.  And then there are these like like-minded countries are already making joint statements about policies like EU and the US Trade and Technology Council has made the 6G outlook in May of this year.  It defines the key principles. 

     And now that they are out there it has been the role of the researchers and the industry to take those principles.  I have seen very little discussion on how these are then adopted into the work that we actually do.  There is the missing link.  There was no such thing in 5G.  That was not there.  It is there in 6G so now the community needs to take the principles like sustainability and inclusiveness and trust and they have to be translated into the work that we do now.  It is a new thing and it requires a change of mind set from the community to really respect what the higher level governments agree on and then do that in their research.  And that's a challenge that I want to bring up.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you very much.  Any other comments?  Any questions from the floor?  No?  Okay. 

     Looks like we need to close the session.  We would like to have short message from you to -- the final message actually from each of the panelists.  So who would like to give first?  The last message from you regarding this topic, the Open Service Platform in Beyond the 5G/6G Era.  Okay.

     >> TONY QUEK: I can go first.  I think thank you for the organizer NICT for inviting us.  I personally have attended a lot of these panels and workshop.  I hope that there is outcome after this. 

     We hope that eventually to this we can have different stakeholder continent and have outcome down the road because of this event today we achieve something.  I hope that we can do then something and can bring back good memories.  I hope this is my last message.  Thank you.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Thank you. Marja-san.

     >> MARJA ANNELI MATINMIKKO-BLUE: And I will continue with roles of the stakeholders.  Understanding what we are here for.  I come from the academic research community.  I'm here to help the people.  So who are the users of the 6G networks and what do they really want?

     We can't ask them directly what they want because it is not the way it goes, but we have to be honest and take their perspectives into account.  We saw in Europe in 5G that the consumers were disappointed in terms of what they were promised.  Like oversized promises were made and what they were offered by the operators was pretty much similar things as in 4G.  Contracts were the same.  Data rates were higher in 4G when it was launched.  We cannot do this again. 

     Social scientists say that this has already changed the end user perspective.  They -- we can't do this again because they expect.  So we can not make oversized promises any more.  We can't do to them for 5G and 6G.  We have to stop talking about that if we can't deliver that.  We have to now come back to the time for this oversized promises is over but now we have to seriously think what the future would look like and what is the desired future that the people, people really want.

     >> ABHIMANYU GOSAIN: I will continue with the theme just put it in my own words.  So the mentality of build it and they will come is not something that has served us well as you see. 

     We are still searching for the killer for 5G to make it justified but still already on the journey to 6G.  The key piece is again, right, the platform model.  What that allows you is to connect two disparate groups who otherwise would not engage.  That is what we believe if and why we are here and NICT is also trying to play a role in that piece is connecting the disparate stakeholders who haven't been at the forefront.

     So my sort of key takeaway is two C words.  Co-development and collaboration.  Co-development a little bit more technical.  Not just cross-layer optimization, for example.  That is a very technical concept, but essentially looking at different layers and stakeholders and bringing them all to the table at the formative stage and not necessarily, you know, when the decisions have been made, when the standards have been made but the spectrum has been allocated we are not going to serve anybody well.  We have to think as citizens as well.

     >> THABISA ZIMBINI FAYE-MWANGI: Thank you very much.  I think without repeating what has already been said, I think my parting words would really be about not forgetting the Developing South.  Bring them along on the journey. 

     One of the biggest things that, you know, if you ever hear the resistance from the Developing South about 6G it is mainly around the energy impact.  I think if we are moving into 6G without solving for the energy sustainability and the energy demands that come with it, then for us it really is 5G plus.  There really is no difference.

     So let's solve for the sustainability and bring the Developing South along.  Because they unlock great, great potential when they participate.  It elevates the whole notion of what we are trying to do.  So we cannot leave behind that many people.  And the other thing is around collaboration.

     It so important that we allow the Developing South to leverage the progress that has been made by other countries.  So having more sessions like this.  Having visiting tours.  Having benchmarking tours and so on.  That is what shapes the policy and the regulation of these developing nations.  Then the catching up is very little.  It becomes just the fundamentals of infrastructure.  And but when you have the right mind set you are then able to have the people to influence the policy and drive the regulatory direction.  Thanks.

     >> KENTARO ISHIZU: Okay.  Thank you very much.  Okay.  I need to conclude.  Okay.  Thank you very much for your information and opinion and answer.  Actually, I -- I personally believe this topic is very, very important for the future.  So I'm really happy to share this opinion today.

     So okay.  So fortunately, we have actually some years until 2030s but already we have only six years so we have to seriously think about this.

     So I would like to continue this discussion with other stakeholders.  So let's keep in touch.  Thank you very much.  Okay.  Now, it is time to return my microphone to Hosako-san.

     >> IWAO HOSAKO: Thank you very much for the fruitful discussion.  I think that Ishizu-san already summarized the discussion today. 

     But I would like to the point to come to here and are very interesting presentations.  And after that they are talking very interesting opinions.  But as in many kind of different kind of perspectives from the different nations and the different areas and different positions.  But it is quite useful to recognise we have such kind of differences each other.

     But as already everyone mentioned that we have a chance to recognise and have a collaborative research together over the future network and also we would like to continue to collaborating each other.  So this is a starting point for the future progression today.

     And we would like to keep in touch with from the future.  Thank you very much for your attendance and presentations and also collaborations together.  Thank you very much.  I would like to close the session.  Thank you very much.