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IGF 2018 - Day 1 - Salle IV - MAG Meeting

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



     >> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we're about to start our MAG meeting.  If you are not involved in the MAG...

Thank you.  I think for time's sake, I will hand it over to our Chair, Lynn St. Amour, to start the meeting.  Thank you.

     >> LYNN ST. AMOUR:  Thank you, everyone.  We're apologetic for the format we have here with the panel and there.  That is what comes with a lot of the rooms here in this building.  I'm going to introduce the other people that are up here with me in a few moments, we'll say a few words, and then we're really looking for engagement with the MAG members.  If you take the floor, we ask you to quickly say your name, the country you are from and your stakeholder group. 

Again, as Chengetai said, this was meant to be a meeting between MAG members and UNDESA officials.  UNDESA of course is the institutional home of the IGF within the U.N., but we are a very open community so if you are a non‑MAG member, and you want to sit in, you are certainly welcome.  But again, we ask that the engagement be between MAG members and the U.N. staff. 

Here to my left is Mr. Liu.  He is the Under‑Secretary‑General of the Department of Economic and Social Affairs.  Again, UNDESA is the institutional home for the IGF.  To his left is Mr. Stefan Schweinfest.  He is the acting head, I guess, of the IGF activities.  He is, in fact, the director of the Statistics Division within UNDESA.  But also as part of his portfolio for a period of time, he's been leading the IGF activities.  And he'll say a few words later as well.

Then, of course, we have Chengetai Masango, who is the head of the IGF Secretariat.  And is back with us for at least some period of time?  As many of you know, of course, he was sort of seconded or with the high‑level panel on digital cooperation for some months.  So we're very fortunate to get him back here during this crunch period.

Again, with that, I will ask Mr. Liu to say a few words, then Mr. Schweinfest and then we'll open it up for discussion between the MAG.  Actually, one other thing.  There are, at the very end, some certificates of recognition for the outgoing MAG members.  So if you can stay to the end to get the certificate, that would be great.  If not, don't worry we'll certainly get them to you later.  Thank you.  Mr. Liu? 

    >> LIU ZHENMIN: Thank you.  Thank you, President St. Amour, for moderating the meeting.  Dear colleagues and MAG members, it is a great honor and  pleasure for me to meet you again in Paris.  Last time, we met in Geneva.  That was my second time ‑‑ my first time to join IGF.  I'm very glad to be back here.    We're so glad to be year after year, coming to IGF again.  I think let me start thanking all of you MAG members for your support in preparation of this year's IGF.  Without your support, I think it not possible that we have a good preparation for this session of the IGF. 

Dear colleagues, I think where we are, we will have open session this afternoon.  The Secretary‑General Guterres will address the meeting.  I think we need to reflect what we're doing and how we will say our progress. 

For MAG itself, definitely think ‑‑ let me glad to share with the Secretary‑General Guterres has already approved the new list of conversation of the new MAG members. They're going to be released very soon.  So it is likely the new MAG members will start the work immediately after this IGF meeting. 

So let me also take this opportunity to thank those outgoing members of that MAG who are not going to stay in the group, for your contribution of past three years, your support in MAG and support in IGF. 

We were looking at IGF, I think now, we're now in the 13th year of IGF process.  We're looking at what we have to achieve, definitely I think we have achieved a lot.  We will see, with the joint task force of all stakeholders, we have achieved a lot over the past 13 years, but I think people outside of this community they're asking what are you doing for IGF?  You're coming every year.  What are you doing?  What have you achieved?

I think I will say, really, this is a very, very challenging area we are now engaging.  I think challenging first that we are challenging many pressing issues in the area of Internet Governance.  Many issue emerging for digital device, for cyber security, for capacity building, for privacy of Internet users, many issues today, emerging every day, every hour. 

Second, I think there is a divide among member states and stakeholders still remaining.  That has been really affecting our progress in IGF process.  This is a challenge I think that will be a rapid development for new technology and so‑called forced Industrial Revolution.  With artificial intelligence at the center of this forced Industrial Revolution.  You know, I think with these three elements combined, IGF we're really increasingly facing many challenging pressures.  Pressures from the government, pressures from the all the people, people from resource.

You know, within the U.N. in the intergovernment process, I think whenever I will see investment from diplomats, even ministers from resource who have never seen the people both excited and worried about the current Industrial Revolution.  
     You know, we can't predict a bit, even with this new technology, to be developed in the coming years or coming decade, actually, Internet will continue to serve as a platform for the use of the new technology.  
I think people are worried about be ‑‑ that we are still struggling for the Internet governance.  You know the difference in members that are still there, what are we going to regulate?  How are we going to regulate new current technology?  The impacts of new technology might be to of course be including the impact on basic values, (?)  values in the future.  
So I think that we gradually, I seeing a lot of worry about the new developments.  So that be also worry will become kind of pressure on the process of IGF.  That is why I think that over the past year, during my meetings with Professor St. Amour, the Chair of the MAG should be how we're going to improve our process.  How we make good use of IGF to speed up our progress in the coming years. 

So this challenge, I think on the continuous support of MAG.  I hope it will be the new MAG members will be devoted some time to help.  To develop midterm, not ‑‑ in addition to preparation for the forthcoming annual meetings, develop a midterm program for the IGF process to see how we are going to build up our force.  Supporting IGF, gradually we will do something most certainly, and we're going to achieve some outcome in the coming years. 

Of course, the process is still challenging.  I think we still need to develop this to support our capacity. Capacity we are confronting is capacity of our post financial support  and also the human resources support.  As well as the secretary support.  So lot of challenges. 

I hope to be the members of the MAG know the process much better than anyone else.  And hope you be really devote some some time to consider how we're going to apply our future next year.

Let me thank on the strong support for you.  I think you could get strong support from the secretary of UNDESA.  You see, I think UNDESA is well prepared ‑‑ of course, we are all also constrained in the resources.  That is why we should rely on your pledge of support that you will mobilize the member states that they will continue to support this mechanism.  
I think I'm convinced that the next three years we can really achieve something to demonstrate that the IGF really could deliver something.  We don't need to wait until after seven years.  The member states can decide we need to renew IGF another 10 years.  I think that would be send a very poor signal.

Of course, definitely, we need Internet governance to have been done last year, issue.  But we need to improve the process.  Improve process.  So I think let's work together in the coming three years to really improve process and to deliver some concrete outcomes. 

So Professor St. Amour, let me congratulate you.  You accepted to continue serve another year for the Chairmanship.  I hope you will lead this transition process to make ‑‑ I  think you make the MAG very more effective and most attentive.  I thank you.  
     >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Mr. Liu.  We'll come back to any questions from the community in just a moment, but I would like to invite Mr. Stefan Schweinfest just to say a few words.  I also have to say that Stefan hit the ground running a few months ago, not having been a part of the IGF activities, but he mobilized, very well, a number of resources in UNDESA who have participated deeply in a lot of our working groups, fundraising, and some of the other working groups, and it has really made a very big difference. 

So I also ‑‑ his efforts and Mr. Liu's efforts have also resulted in the MAG and the MAG Chair announcement happening later today.  Should be on the website any moment now, I think.  And that's a full four months earlier than it has been the last few years.  We will have time to do a lot of the more thoughtful, more strategic work and some work on improvements, and we'll continue to roll the full set of IGF ecosystem activities.  I think we're all really excited about that, and I want to extend my grateful thanks for everything they did to actually facilitate that happening through the U.N. 

So, with that Stefan, you have the floor.

    >> STEFAN SCHWEINFEST: Yeah, thank you, and good afternoon.  Pleasure for me to meet you.  I'm Stefan Schweinfest.  With that last name, everybody knows me as Stefan.  So in case you see me popping up somewhere, I just want to briefly explain how do I get into the game here.  I have been in DESA at the U.N. for 29 years.  I am a statistician, and made it all the way to the director of the statistic division, which that is one of the divisions, and I don't know what I did wrong. 

I mean, my boss obviously thought I didn't have enough work.  Whilst the Division for Public Institution and Digital Government is looking for a new director in leadership, in the interim, he's asked me to assume the directorship of the second division. So this is why I came in, in the first of March until the process is concluded, some time next year.  As you know, the U.N. is not exactly the fastest organization on the planet.  It will take a little bit of time.  In the meantime, I have the extraordinary pleasure to work with you. 

Now just because I was put in this position, it does not ‑‑ I was not genetically altered.  It doesn't make me overnight the biggest expert on public institutions or digital information or IGF.  I would be foolish to pretend that, but I don't have to because I have a fantastic team in New York. Wyman Quoc is of course leading the team and my division in New York and on behalf of course Chengetai in the Geneva office in the IGF Secretariat.  And they will continue to have the substantive lead, but I can perhaps help a little bit. 

There are perhaps three things I can bring to the table after all these years.  I know the U.N. system very well.  I have a couple of important telephone numbers in my book. I could help, indeed last weekend ordered to deblock a couple of things that were easy to get blocked in the U.N.  So I'm happy the MAG Chair ‑‑ the MAG appointment and MAG Chair appointment for this year is done a lot earlier. 

I also know how to manage things in the U.N., so I will bring that to the table.  The third point, with statistics ‑‑ it is actually I'm learning a lot.  Because statistics and data management and sometimes privacy management, we're talking about some of the same issues.  I'm coming from a different angle, but I learn a lot, and have the pleasure to work with you and Lynn and my team.  So I am wildly determined to do that well.  If I can do something better, let me know. 

I think I am coming in, in an exciting moment.  There are lots of topics that are really interested.  There are SDGs in the background where we all have to reflect in the U.N. how any process can help the SDG.  Of course, I just happen to be German, so this morning I actually had a first meeting with the German delegation.  We already started the IGF 2019 preparations.  So whatever I can do to help in that process, I will certainly do that.  I am here to serve you, pleasure to meet you.  Thank you for your cooperation.  
     >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Now you have a sense of how we have been able to make such progress in the last few months.  I really would like to open it up to the floor to either current MAG members because your term extends to the end of this IGF and incoming MAG members in the room.  This is the opportunity for us as MAG to engage with UNDESA as the institutional arm of the U.N. for the IGF.  
Any ‑‑ so if everybody could please, again, introduce yourself.  Country, incoming or current MAG member and which stakeholder group.  Thank you.  You have the floor.

     >> ROMAN CHUKOV:  Your Excellency, Secretary‑General, dear colleagues, thank you so much for this tremendous opportunity to be here.  With so many exciting people to participate in the Internet Governance, because as we really see, a fourth industrial revolution is taking place in the world.  The digital economy is a main priority. 

We, in Russia, we also put really huge emphasis on the development of digital technologies and digital economy, and this is why Internet is the basis and infrastructure of this.  That is why more and more experts and stakeholders should be involved.  That is why I believe the platform is crucial for us, and I believe the new MAG group will be able to really commit to specific results to see some progress made and we wil see some real Internet Governance as a result as a process of our involvement.  Thank you so much.  Good luck to all of us in our endeavors.  Thank you.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: So you obviously, as you just said, are from Russia.  You're an incoming MAG member.  If you could give us your name as well.

    >> ROMAN CHUKOV: Roman Chukov.

     >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: I think you said it, but I was speaking over it.  Raquel, you asked for the floor.

     >> RAQUEL GATTO:  Thank you, Lynn.  My name is Raquel Gatto.  I represent Technical Community and I also work with Internet Society.  I'm finishing my second term as MAG member.  I wanted to share that this morning, we ran a session, starting IGF with a high note about the IGF ‑‑ the improvements that the IGF and future of the IGF can take. 

I welcome very much Mr. Liu and Stefan for their remarks, taking up on the need for change for IGF.  It is really important.  We see and are saying out loud that the world is much better with the IGF than without it.  That is true.  But it doesn't mean IGF is fixed and in a good place.  We are all here to make the IGF more powerful.  And improvements that ‑‑ we're going to prepare also some quick take‑aways, but I can bring three of them. 

I think Mr. Liu mentioned the need for more tangible results, how to improve the process towards more outcomes driven at IGF.  There is a certain fatigue regarding some of the, let's say the schedules and agendas and how we can improve also those processes to make those discussions meaningful, to make it a cohesive and focused program.  That is also takes the MAG, I'm not skipping the responsibility on that.  How we can bring those changes to really bring this focus program and discussions, it will be helpful for the outcomes.

And perhaps a third one that regards, we're fortunate to have the three host countries the Swiss from previous years, the French from this year, and the German for next year.  Now we're in a good place to have the host country confirmed for next year, but then we have another five years to go, right?  How we can make some effort by reducing not only the schedule and bringing relevance back to the IGF and making it stronger to have more host countries we need to do that.  Sometimes the requirements are very hard.  So for some of the U.N. requirements they're hard.  We worked with some potential candidates, and they couldn't afford it.  If we can do something there, I think it's important now that we have time to look toward 2020.  I will leave like this.  Thank you very much for the opportunity also.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Raquel.  Veni and Salan.

     >> VENI MARKOVSKI:  Thank you, Chair.  My name is Veni Markovski.  I'm on the MAG, current member from the technical community, the ICANN vice president for U.N. engagement.  So I interact with UNDESA all the time.  I have to share publicly that our relationship is good because we invest in it, but because UNDESA invests in having a good relationship with the technical community, Civil Society, businesses, you name it.  It is a very good example. 

On the IGF question ‑‑ thanks, Lynn, for organizing several working groups within MAG, which are open also for other participants to join in.  The question is how to ensure the table funding for the Secretariat, but also how to ensure that there are countries to take the lead and become champions of the IGF, if I can use this term. 

Because we're certainly hopeful and that is the spirit of my colleagues when we were discussing this.  Because it is hosted in France with the high‑level participation of President Macron and others, and Secretary‑General today, we're hopeful that the other governments will take a look and maybe have a second look after so many years of having IGFs. 

One reason for them to engage would be the fact that IGF created all the of the regional IGFs and national IGFs and they're becoming some entities on their own. They're developing now far beyond the original idea of the IGF, you know, which was to have a global forum.  That is good, it provides different regional perspectives and bring them to the global IGF and that makes them more viable and makes it more interesting.

It makes it also ‑‑ I want to remind everyone that the whole idea of the IGF is to have a venue where all stakeholders meet and discuss issues which are important for everyone.  We see that in the hallways of UNESCO today, tomorrow, and the next few days.  It's a great example what we can do.  I know we were all stressed out because of the late announcements and stuff like that,  and even regardless of that, the fact that we're here in this building and having the meeting, even the lines were not that long in the morning when I came here 8:00.  That is a good thing. 

So thank you, DESA, and thanks for your leadership, Lynn, as well.

     >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you to the Secretariat and certainly to the UNDESA staff as well, I think who have taken great pains to making sure people weren't standing out in the rain.

Salan, you have the floor.

     >> SALANIETA TAMANIKAIWAIMARO:  Thank you, Chair.  I'm Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro, for the record, but "Salan" for short, for everyone.  It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the amazing leadership by you, Lynn, particularly, the past three days.  I know you are very modest, but the kind of leadership you bring to the MAG is one which fosters a family.  We felt like we were a family.  Not like work was work, and we would lovingly do things for you.  Not because it was you, but it is the style of your leadership.  This is a face‑to‑face MAG meeting, so I thought I would personally put it out there. We're extremely grateful.  I would invite my colleagues to put a massive hand for Lynn.  

Whilst we're there, I would like to acknowledge the amazing, unseen invisible work that the Secretariat does, often thankless, often blind e‑mails sent to the Secretariat at crazy hours, across crazy time zones to do things and expect unbelievable results.  You pushed at 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m.
     Again, to all of you at the Secretariat, Chengetai, Anya, Lenora, amazing Lenora and Anya, Luis, Bobo, everybody,just  give a hand.  
     And the MAG receives criticism, that is normal.  I mean, we expect that in life, and things sometimes don't go as planned.  Things sometimes fail.  That is fine.  We don't have to get twisted about it.  If it happens, it happens. We innovate.  That is the strength of the MAG.  The past three years, I have seen the MAG innovate.  Like the WebEx fails, use Skype.  If there is a video as a tech, feel free to innovate.  That is the beauty of the Internet.  The Internet Governance and the nature and the culture of it. 

One of the strengths I have seen in terms of evolution of the MAG, is the diverse synergies that went from assimilated blocks of people that went different geographical regions to them being lost in one global family space where people transcended geographical boundaries, transcended  constituencies, where we are no longer so much, ok, you're from private sector, this is technical, we can't relate.  As opposed to hey, common vision, guys.  That shows the strength of your leadership, Lynn.  I thank you for it.  It has been a privilege to work under you. 

Having said that, one encouragement I would like to give to incoming MAG members is to remember that teamwork makes the dream work.  No one individual can carry the load.  Never be afraid to ask for help.  Sometimes, it is easy to criticize, but it is much more productive to lend a hand.  And sometimes I think, speaking from personal perspectives, sometimes I should hold back, be much less to judge, and more quick to help, to collaborate.  That is the strength of the MAG. 

Personally, I would like to thank each and every one of the 55 members of the MAG that have influenced me in ways you can't imagine.  I thank you for it, and also thank you to those who are unseen and do thankless tasks that may not be named.  Previous MAG members who continue to support in contribution and in kind.  With that, Lynn, I will stop there.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Salan.  So once an MAG member, always an MAG member.  Only one friendly amendment to what you said. 

Given the bottom‑up, community‑led nature of IGF community, it is the Chair that actually sits under all of the MAG and the community and work under you, at your direction.  We often forget just how new a lot of what we're trying to do here is in the similar circumstances.  Important to be innovative, important to take appropriate levels of risk, learn and move on.  It means some things don't move at the pace you like and don't work as well as you perhaps would have perhaps expected.

Personally, I think we're always open to suggestions for improvement, criticisms or otherwise.  We hope the next statement is: This is how I can help you fix that.  We're a community‑led set of activities.  We need the community and resources to move forward, it is not on the basis of just four people, Secretariat and part‑time Chair that the IGF continues to improve.    It is on the basis of all the activities of the community. 

Renata, you have been patient.  You have the floor.

     >> RENATA AQUINO RIBEIRO:  Thank you, Lynn.  I am Renata Aquino Ribeiro, a Civil Society outgoing MAG member.  I have to say that is the best birthday ever.  The good news here about the word, my favorite word, "continuity,"  the announcement of the new MAG and certificates.  My mom will love that.  That's a good present, too.

But really, most of all, really I would like to thank Chengetai for his amazing work with the MAG, and Lynn as well.  And welcome our work for 2019.  My colleague, Jutta Croll, from Germany has been such a light and support in my work this year.  I never think I learn so much from someone on the MAG.  Thank you so much.  It is an example of how continuity is important.     I hope the new MAG feels it can always reach out to the former MAG because it is the community that moves the MAG.  I was community way before being MAG.  I appreciate it very much, this experience.  And I understand that we have ‑‑ we have the working groups, really made such huge steps with the working groups for improvement of the IGF, the multiyear, all of them.   I really do hope the community continues to give such support.  Thank you.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Renata.  I will move to this side, the order that we saw the hands in.  Rajesh, Julian, and Arnold.  Rajesh, you have the floor. Rajesh, you have the floor.

     >> RAJESH CHHARIA:  Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Secretary‑General.  Rajesh Chharia from India. 

I was going through the words of Secretary‑General about what is the position of IGF and what will IGF doing?  We have to understand that the next billion of the Internet user is coming.  The more and more Internet user will come, more and more problem will come.  To resolve this issue, sitting amicably is very important.  That is why during the Chairman (?) to IGF is required for another 10 years.  The 10 years are getting completed.  Again, this 10‑year extension is required for the continuation of the IGF. 

Salan, you told me that criticism is happening of the MAG.  Only persons working will get criticized.  Those not working won't get recognized or criticized.  Team leadership is very important.  For the ecosystem and the bottom‑up approach, we can do lots of things for the coming future of the Internet user.  That is the responsibility of us to do.  Thank you very much.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Very well said, Rajesh.  You have the floor, Julian.

     >> JULIÁN CASASBUENAS: Thank you very much, Lynn.  I am an Julián Casasbuenas from Colombia, outgoing MAG member.  I want to take this opportunity to thank you all, the Secretariat, you Lynn, and the former MAG members that support me to better understand how to get involved in this space.

I feel this is important for me on a personal level and also for my organization and all the work they're doing in the local level with our Colombian IGF initiative.  I believe that being here is very important to put more efforts on the local level and bring voices from grassroots organization and people that are not connected yet.  I believe the work we are doing here to keep an open and inclusive Internet is valuable, especially for developing countries like mine.  Thank you very much.  I wish the best for the new MAG members.  
I certainly will keep involved with my local initiative with all  the Internet Governance issues.  Thank you.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Julian.  I should point out quickly, Julian actually led a working group on improvements this year that built on some work from a previous year.  What that effort did was took every improvement that has come throughout the CSTD working group in the IGF improvement reports, stock taking activities, the retreat held by,organized by DESA a few years ago, and all the suggestions and comments of various groups and have categorized them in terms of what type of suggestion, what it's impact is, and who should or what group should have responsibility for actioning that. 

They're beginning to share that second level of sorting, with the community here this week, to move on.  We take the suggestions for improvement seriously.  Look at the size of the spread sheets in the process, you will know how thorough that work group is beng in terms of addressing those and trying to move forward.  I want to thank Julian for all of his efforts.  Arnold.  Yes, Arnold, you have the floor.

     >> ARNOLD VAN RHIJN:  Thank you, Lynn.  Thank you, Mr. Liu, for your presentation and plea to continue our work.  I'm Arnold van Rhijn, and I'm an outgoing member. 

Let me share shortly a few thoughts I have about the future of IGF.  It is about process and content and money.  On the side of process, we know there is an important resolution from UNGA, 70‑125 which calls for the further improvement of IGF.  We're nearly halfway.

Looking back at the three years I was a member of the MAG, I noticed of a very powerful push within the MAG, all stakeholders involved to improve the IGF.  Intercessional sessions, we have the best practice form.  We have working groups.  And we work very hard within the MAG on funding, on local content, we have come up with tangible outputs.  And that should continue.  If we are talking about improvement in IGF, my plea would be an IGF working more structural ‑‑ structural planning. 

Having a focused and oriented outcome.  That is very important to show the outside world we're not a talking shop, but we produce outcomes, which of course other platforms, because there is a proliferation going on globally with organizations dealing with Internet Governance who can pick up the signal from the IGF.  Work on the further and report back to the IGF.      

That is the ideal picture of the more structured work planning of the IGF.  On the money side.  I think it is also important to increase the donors to the IGF. 

An organization without this Secretariat, it cannot function.  We all know and have said many times here, and I will support it as well, the IGF Secretariat is doing an outstanding job the last three years, and will continue to do so.  Without a strong Secretariat, you cannot fulfill your task.  So we need more money.  That is the reason for the Netherlands' government to come up with a five‑year contribution to the IGF, making it more stable for the IGF to See that  money is coming that way for a period of five years. 

We need other donors coming up from the private sector and others governments to contribute to the IGF trust fund for a longer period than only one year.  I am happy I was part of that, the working group for fund‑raising did outstanding job by producing fact sheet, letter, also a flyer.  I brought with me 4, 500 fliers, asking for those participants here in Paris to think about it.  Come up with a financial contribution to the IGF. That is a little step from the MAG to improve IGF. 

Last but not least, we know IGF 2018 is here in Paris.  Next year in Berlin.  Netherlands is hosting the European Internet Governance next year, 19 and 20th of June.  You're all invited.  We're in contact with the French host and German host to see whether we as a European IGF can contribute by prolonging discussions taking place here and hopefully have concrete output to bring this further to Berlin.  That is a small plea also from our side. 

So see as Netherlands or European Internet Governance forum next year as a small but important pillar under the bridge, Paris, Berlin.  Thank you very much.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Arnold.  Thank you for in recognition for the great concrete suggestions.  I feel like an early holiday present, I think.  I am going to turn ‑‑ I will come to you in a second, Miguel.  Trying to see if there are final words on the panel before we give out the certificates?    If I could comment to Arnold.  Not only did the Dutch government make a five‑year contribution, look at the running rate over the first 10, 11, 12 years, they tripled their annual contribution and actually committed it for five years, going forward.  They have certainly given us permission to use that, if you will, to spur other equal contributions. 

We depend on contributions to run the Secretariat and support intercessional activities.  As Arnold said, without the funds, we're trying to run forward fairly hampered.  Miguel, you have the floor.

     >> MIGUEL IGNACIO ESTRADA: Thank you, Lynn.  My name is Miguel Ignacio Estrada.  I'm from Argentina.  I'm one of the members of the technical community.  This is the third year as an MAG member.  I don't want to miss this opportunity to first of all, echo Raquel's comment on the importance of the improvements for the future of the IGF. 

I would like to thank UNDESA for being diligent in selecting new MAG members. I think this is really important for the future for implementing those improvements for the future of the IGF. 

Also I would like to echo Salan's comment on the Secretariat work.  It has been three years here.  I don't know how they do it.  They work really hard, really hard.

Finally, thank you, Lynn, for your leadership.  You are a really good leader.  You are really positive.  It is that ‑‑ it has been a pleasure to work with you.  I hope I can still work with you all in working groups.

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Once an MAG member, always an MAG member.  Ha‑ha‑ha.  Mr. Liu?

    >> LIU ZHENMIN: Thank you, Lynn.  Let me thank the members who have spoken.  Thank you for the kind words, remarks, insight, and for your suggestions.  I want to thank those outgoing members for your contribution.  As Professor St. Amour say, if you leave MAG temporarily, you will be our member forever.  But definitely you are permanent member for IGF process. 

Let me share with you.  I am always thinking how we could build up IGF process.  I think in my mind three words.  First is sustainability.  This is a process.  We need to support of all stakeholders.  Definitely first and foremost, support for the governments.  I think why we just have IGF forum?  Convergence   in the world that our member states are not consolidated, otherwise, there should be an international organization.  We're still in process of building that.

I think to keep the IGF process sustainable will be challenge to us.  I think we are going to produce something in coming years doesn't mean IGF will be concluded.  
We need to maintain IGF for some years, some decades, definitely.  IGF governance together with new technologies require our attention for the forthcoming decades.  We need to maintain the attractiveness of the IGF process to have support all of the Secretariats. 

I think one colleague mention we need to avoid fatigue.  So to avoid that, we need active participation from all stakeholders, especially you. From the scientific community, private sector, civil society, and government sectors, it is to ensure the sustainability of the process.  Still are challenge, but I'm confident we can achieve that.

Second issue is productivity.  After 13 years, some of you said we need to avoid being a talk show, just talk.  We need to produce something. This is not only challenge for MAG, we need to have very attentive planning for the first coming process.  Productivity I think it would be a challenge for the process. 

Third is universality.  Since opacity, we tried our best to ensure the universal participation for all countries.  But due to various reasons, I think participation from a source is not so active.  I think including the hosting of IGF sessions, we need to continue to encourage more meetings to be organized in the southern cities. 

I think if we really work on this the achieve the goal for these three words we will definitely make progress.

But for the U.N., I think we should continue the Secretary‑General himself, continue to determine to support the process.  He has also intention to look at the Secretariat for supporting the IGF process, of course due to wherever it is, in Europe, the regular budget and not sufficient for the process.  The tenancy in the U.N. is the member state asking the Secretariat to do this and do that.  But never approve budget.  Always we rely on us for the resource mobilization. 

I appreciate the colleague from Netherlands offer nice idea.  We hope all of you will continue to help the IGF,  MAG and help work for the program and with moving resources.

Only by doing that I wish you to help with the process to make it more substantive.  So you can count on the support of U.N.  Secretary of UNDESA.  We will continue to work with you in building up this process. 

Professor, I hope you would be the new MAG, to continue the work and make splendid contribution under your leadership. Thank you. 

    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Thank you, Mr. Liu.  Thank you.

Stefan, any words?  No?  Nothing more?  Ha‑ha‑ha 
Chengetai has a couple of announcements to make, and then we'll move to handing out the certificates for the outgoing MAG members. Chengetai?

     >> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Very, very quickly.  Beginning, since everybody was thanking everybody else, I would like to thank the MAG.  Great working with you.  I will continue to work with you.  And Lynn, of course,  as the Chair.  I also want to mention because they weren't mentioned are Wyman and Dennis.  I talk to them every single day.  Ha‑ha.  Just to make sure they are mentioned and you know they're a very critical part of the team.  And of course thank you to Stefan for the backup.  Thank you. 

For the photos after the award, giving out the certificates, let's meet downstairs by the Picasso, because we would like to set our positions.  Because when the Secretary‑General has finished his speech, he only has five minutes, presently on the schedule.  As you know, these things do tend to take more time than scheduled for.  We might be squeezed out.  So we want to be ready.  He comes, stands, takes a photo and goes.  After this, can we please meet downstairs.  Thank you. 

Just the current MAG, unfortunately.  Yeah.  
It is downstairs.  The Picasso on the wall.  I didn't recognize it as a Picasso, but I'm not ...

In front of room 1. After the opening.  
    >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Let me repeat.  What Chengetai is suggesting, we will give out certificates here now and then he was requesting everybody to go downstairs immediately after that to understand ‑‑

    >> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Where to be standing.

     >> LYNN ST. AMOUR: Because everybody will be placed, apparently, so we know where to go when we all rush out of the opening ceremony, after President Marcon's speech to take the picture really quickly.  And I think what he is trying to say gently is if you are not there in two minutes, you are likely not in the picture because it would be like that. 

So I think that was ‑‑ I will leave the ceremony to you.  And of course, huge thanks to everybody.  I think we may need to split this into two sessions.  One to do formal thanks and another to do engagement on improvements.  Obviously, none of this can be done without the full support of the MAG, the community, and the support each of us have behind us individually.  Thank you very much.  Over to you.  
(No audio)
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: First certificate is for Rasha.  Please.  
and Zeina, please.  
Is she here?  No?
Zeina, yes.  
I'm I saying it wrong?  I'm sorry.  Now you get to know if I know your name.  I know.  
Now it comes, yeah.  
I said that one right.  
Billy Cheon, is he in?  Billy?  Wisdom.  
is Mohammed here?  Now you're forcing me.  Muataz?  Renata?  Happy birthday.  Wow!  
Lisa is not here.  Basically, that's all.  
Thank you very much.  Oh, yes, yes.  
Of course, mine!  
Thank you.  
     >> Chengetai, at last, we have a small present from the MAG to you since you have a new position.  
     >> All go down for the lecture.

     >> The picture with the secretary later.

     >> Dress rehearsal. 

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