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IGF 2019 - Day 3 - Estrel Saal B - WS #244 Inclusion & Representation: Enabling Local Content growth - RAW

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Fourteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Berlin, Germany, from 25 to 29 November 2019. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 

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>> MODERATOR: Good afternoon, everyone.  Thank you so much for coming to this workshop on the issues of local content inclusion and representation, strategies to enable and make sustainable local content.  I'm Bertrand Mouillier and I will be the moderator.  So the right, Sarika Lakhani from one fine day films and Vanessa Sinden from trigger fish animation in south Africa.  Next to her Sigrun Neisen and last but certainly not least, Santiago Schuster Vergara who is a proproser in Chile but was a hero in the licensing sis and I mean in.  And Victor Owade is going to be the online moderator.  Thanks you for your help.  We have a bit less than 90 minutes.  This is a workshop, not a seminar or conference.

We thought what might be opposite.  This is not moving.  Can I have the next slide.  Would be to really make -- there is something missing there, never mind.

To make sure that you have -- you have a chance to really hear from working professionals in the professional audio visual and music content industries what are the issues that these people face every day in terms of developing, producing, financing and accessing distribution networks for culturally relevant local content.

We are going to make it very case studies rich.  Stay away from theory and high flight policy consideration.

But I will be asking speakers about what they think their needs are in terms of enabling regulatory environment and incentives and so on to move closer to sustainability, economic and social, of local content.

I want to stress that these are not -- we are not giving you the full panoply.  It is illustration of some of the issues that face the creative industries in some parts of the world.  Not exhaustive but powerfully illustrative of various da lemnas and is a area knows that occur in producing local content.  Without further ado, I think you can read so I won't read them for you.  These are the policy questions I suppose the workshop is asking of itself.  Not just the speakers but you here as participants with a lot of things to say.  I will make sure we build in sufficient time for questions and answers and points to be made but you as participants, bearing in mind the inclusiveness of IGF which is one of its strong points.  Without further ado, let me introduce Vanessa Sinden who is going to take you through not just material about who triggerparticular are and what they are trying to do in southern Africa and the rest of Africa with the complex business of producing locally relevant animation.  But she also says things that are more generic and very usefully so about the value chain in the division for professional content and difficulties involved in trying to place the content within that value chain.  Bearing in mind the drastic evolution, this is where the connection occurs with internet that we are seeing now this super charged distribution system in the shape of the broadband internet and the services that have arisen from the infrastructure.  How does that affect her business in terms of developing, financing, producing and distributing animated features and short and television series.

She will show you this, and also talk I think a little bit about her role in helping African creators develop local content in the animated aesthetics and format and especially women across Africa through a project called Triggerfish story lab, I think.  Away.  Thank you.

>> Thank you.   I love enabling local content.  That is the focus of the session today.  And I have been film producing for about 20 years and 13 of the years I have been focused in the animation space and most relevant for this conversation is with Triggerfish for the last 11 years.  I have Slides as well.

So much better than seeing myself on screen.  Triggerfish animating is an independent animation studio and we have been around for 22 years.  Focused on creating our own content.  African content that will travel the world.  Could I get the slides on the screen, please?  Thank you.  I will be using visuals a lot because I think it helps bring context to the conversation.

I will give you a quick overview.  We of Africa's leading animation studio.  Two of our feature films while I have been at the studio that I produced are still two of the top five African fills produced and that is global box office success.  The first one "Zambezia" I produced and the studio.  I a CG film.  I love the African tenacity like we have never done this before But what could be so tough, how bad could it be?  With ambition and vision and a little bit of stupidity we made Africa's first big box office release that was done in stereo scopic 3D as well.  Throw in another challenge.  It traveled to over Soo countries and was dubbed in over 27 languages.  It is still a wonderful picture of what African film making in the animation space looks like.

We followed up with " Khumba."  African stories tend to be somber and deep and moving because of our history across the continent.  "Khumba" was proudly dubbed into not only English but two other official south African languages.  We have 11 and that is quite small compared to the continent.  Both are award winning and interest traveled worldwide.  Our model is taking African stories to the world as opposed to making content for Africa, we find in the space of cinematic releases only 4% of Africa are consuming our films and as a business model we have to stick back what is going to bring in money to pay back investors.

The stories have to be universal and children in New York to Israel to Ghana need to be able to fall in love with our stories.

We had a gap where we decided to do BBC specials.  The specials at Christmas time.  Stickman.  Revolting rhymes we got an Oscar nomination two years.  We will win that Oscar soon.  This was proudly Berlin and proudly capetown coproduction.  The highway way rats and belly flop.  And Zog is another Christmas short.  They have been produced locally in south Africa and distributed worldwide.  Padres as I mentioned our model is about creating and enabling local artists to create and giving them space to do that.

The focus, though, is enabling local content growth.

I would love to paint a picture of the current market in the various business models just to give you an idea of what we are up against.  And that takes us into the business side of this session.

But let's quickly take a look at the slides -- the slides are moving faster than me.  To enable local content, it really means about the local industry growing and flourishing and people have work, it is exciting and vibrant and creating our own content.  That is with really what a healthy industry looks like.

Access for all, we can't just produce content but we have to make sure the artists working in the studio represent diverse cultures who represent previously unrepresented people groups and for us that is quite important because we start from secondary high school level and we provide online resources, what is it like to have a career in animation?  The parent per situation kit because most parents go like you're going to be an artist, a film maker, are you nuts?  And we are trying to provide information and content to potential artists wanting to move into animation to say this is what it looks like.  Free online education part of our triggerfish academy.  You can't just have a healthy business making content, you actually have to be more organic about the full picture.  There are huge gaps between access for all, content online for African film makers.

Education is expensive.  We have traditional scholarships but also free online courses because we know that if you don't have the money to go to university you are certainly going to try and learn onlines.  I did that for my graphic design course.  Many African animaters and artists are self-taught and I love that about emerging markets where the material's online we are going to teach ourselves.  South African animation industry as triggerfish need to make sure the information is online and accessible to all.

And we spot to many gaps.  We see a lot of talent in Africa but huge disconnect to the opportunities.  To investors to the know-how and pitch readiness and workshop sys, we bridge a couple of gaps in the area as well.  I will go in more detail in a second.

I would love to give you a sense of the business landscape.  It is tough out there.  As an African producer we are up against the world.  As south Africans we don't have state support like the French animation model, we have to create to pay the investors back.  And sometimes you need to create just to find your feet but we don't have a lot of room for that.

We need to create an industry where is a lot of that is happening but an artist will support and confident to create.  We at the moment are focused on the cinematic release and what that looks like.  You have an animated film and 90 minutes and release worldwide and find the distribution model happen the sales agent is based around the world and they open up the world and territories for you and book as many theaters as possible and you film needs to be marketed and hopefully thousands and thousands and millions of tickets are but and bums on seats.

That is a traditional cinematic release.  This shows the major studios and stakeholders in the cinematic traditional model.  This does need o be updated a little but shows quite likely who the major players.  Mini majors and in the far scout skirts with the shine in stars the in dependent film makers.  The pageor studios are pulling in 75% of Box office revenue but 75% of the content is typically the independent artists on the outer circle and only reaping 14% of Box office income.  This is a traditional model and needs to be challenged and disrupted.

It is hard to make a film in the space as an African and compete worldwide and pay your investors back and keep your studio going and lights on and the salaries paid, it is a challenge.

I will go that a little more detail because I'm not sure of the audience.  As an African animation studio this is typical for us where we need this big tier, this big chain of people to help us get the movie on the big screen with all those bums in seats.  As creators we are at the bottom tier and we need financiers to help us make the film and a sales agent to find the regions and territories and they reach out to distribution so that the film gets played around the world from Russia to China to the U.S. to Brazil.

And then there is all these different either theatrical or home entertainment.  Quite a lot of people earning.

>> MODERATOR: You mean sin that.

>> VANESSA SINDEN: You see a whole lot of people charging 20 or 30% or huge markups.  I won't go into too much detail and you are welcome to ask questions.  As a south African independent studio we often walk away with very little profit and on our first two films hardly anything.  Makes us question, gosh, is in a viable way to make a film?  If you are not supported by state or sugar daddy you are in a stuff spot where you struggle to make ends meet.

And that does seem challenging and there are certain challenges the cinematic theatrical release model which favors the major studios.

I would love to touch on linear TV.  Just typical broadcast.

In south Africa the SABC.  The typical BBCs and every other C.  TV series model is a little simpler and a little less people involved.  Typically they say we would love to commission a TV series and we will pay for this and cover the production budget and they would have the benefit of having it air and doing what they want with it.  They buy the rights.  The real money this model is actually your off screen money related to consumer strategy.

So if it is pip or pig we are talking about, gosh, you could have a million dollars, sorry, let's make it a billion because a million is too little in terms of consumer strategy sales and income.  And that is quite phenomenal income when you look at a big TV series.  As an African producer it is a little further for us than your big companies distributing and licensing companies.  In this model as a producer we would go great, someone is prepared to pay us to make it.  We'll take that deal.

And then you say goodbye to the TV series and the producers don't have any backing but moving on you go ahead and make the TV series.  And that is the typical broadcast model.  There are other models and really with the disruption with the streaming platforms typically you have Disney plus or Netflix or HBO Max.  There is many.  In Africa there is a RokuTV.  And a nigerian local market.  Local creators are able to create and the streaming platform are paying for the production to meed by.  And if you are good and savvy at negotiating you will hope that the creators h negotiate their percentage of the equity and their property would get the best viewership and creators would be paid well and the production will get made.

I'm loving the disruption in this space at the moment.  It makes for very authentic content.  In the last five years I watched more foreign content than I have ever in my entire life.  Hello, this is fantastic I'm watching Spanish heist movie series, Danish thrillers.  It is wonderful.  And to that mix will be African TV series for kids.  It is just such an exciting time.

As film makers possibly speaking to the content creators in room you might want to create a film or animated short but would love to travel the festival circus.  There is no business model, you need a sugar daddy or a good state support.  You are creating the film and you need the money to do that and take it to festival and it will hopefully win many awards and you will make a name for yourself as a film maker.  We only made one short in the 11 years I have been with triggerfish because we don't have the budget to do this.  We did create belly flop and we are proud of it.  But it does make tore hard -- they want to create and want the films to travel.  Who supports them.  Animation is very expensive.  I'm going through this very fast.  Hang with me.

That is just a little bit of the business landscape.  We want to focus on enabling local content growth.  And I would love to take you through the examples that I have been so fortunate and grateful to be a part of.  We -- I spoke earl just about how there are huge disparities between talent and opportunity.  That is too you throughout the world and in eNorth Americaning markets and Africa is one of those.  So much that willent on the don't innocent, very few Giants who have an appetite for RFK.  And the so what you find is that never gets a voice.  Flash back to 2015 injury was fortunate will work with the Walt Disney company and we launched the first story lab on the continent triggerfish and Disney and reached out through advertising and all oust different means of social connectiveness and received 1,400 submissions.  Creators saying we have a story for TV.  We have a story for features or a short or whatever it may be.  Pick me.  Pick me.  We were blown away by the number of submissions we -- we -- we knew we were on to something.

African storytelling has passed on generation to generation and this is the new platform.  It's digital.  It's about having your stories told in whatever way you can, traditionally hundreds of years ago it was tribe to tribe.  Now it is more digital resources we can do this in a more smart way.  We found the amazing storytellers and chose 35 of the best, that was tough and we brought them to capetown for two weeks, intensive workshops.  And this is a part of the whole thing where there is a skills gap.  The creators had never been in the space before, had the great dreams and ideas but didn't know how to market nationally and didn't know if there were gaps in the storytelling and didn't chale length the character art and didn't know how to get great Ani Nasion Visual to pitch in an national space.  This was about putting the support around them.  Fill the gaps and let's get them to market and see what p has.  I'm grateful of being a part.  Some this got work with Turner group, Disney Netflix.  It is unbelievable what happened through the story lab.

He would chose two TV cease.  The name has changed.  Artwork has changed but it is a preschool show in development with Disney Jr. and that was proudly African TV series which I'm hoping will go into production next year.  The property, the picture on the left-hand side "Mama K's super 4".  This came from a creator from Zambia.  And this is an image I used to remind myself of who the story represents.  It is not changed on the teamful.  It is a working title.  This happens in film, we change the titles with league compliance and all of that all the time.  Who knows what it will be in year's time but I think it will be it for now.  The film represents these faces on the screen.  There is a huge gap for young black girls to see themselves on screen and represented in a positive way and see themselves as superheroes and coding and ennearing and with STEM themes.  As you see yourself represented on screen, you know you can be it.  When you see your syphoning gearing and making good gets to take on the evil villain you believe this.

>> That is her on the right with her sister on the left.  She entered the Disney story lab.  Just a few years ago.  And the reason for this was she wanted to see four strong African girls who save the day in their own fun and.

>> ADRIAN: Y way and she wanted to illustrate that anyone from anywhere can be a superhero.  And to this series is a comedy.  It is an action.  It is fun and frivolous.  It is -- it doesn't have deep somber African themes.  A story and a series for 7-12-year-olds.  That is Malanga today.  Currently in capetown working with our writing team.  And these are the heroes of our show.

And I will pitch it to you quickly.  Come on.  These are the team four.  And basically our girls are navigating high school, everything that comes with high school and dealing with your peers.  Yet they are super gifted.  Some are agile.  Some are fast.  Some are smart at engineering, coding.  And these girls are selected by M ma K.  In the African culture women may tree arcs.  And you can have an uncle and auntie that isn't your family but your uncle and auntie or your googr erle and we have MamaK who is this wise African woman who recruits the girls and sees their natural abilities and pulls them on to team now.  A former secret spy now retired and has a fruit and veg shop and underground the shop she has a see yet underground HQ where the girls are taught o to be supers and build gadgets.  The girls claim to the themes of African ingenuity where their themes are brought to life.

The first original African series produced at triggerfish in capetown.  One of the other things we are proud of, these are old images.  We can't release the new.  Sorry about that.  They give you a glimpse of what to expect.  This RG III would not be authentic and would not be local if we didn't allow the voices to represent that.  And what we decided with Netflix was to make sure our budget was not just to produce the series but create yet another incubator and this was called the writer's lab.  And this simply again identified talent and opportunity and realized there are no black womenniters in the animation space.  There was no complete all-women writing team in the animation space that I'm aware of.  Our head quiter is the head quiter of the powder puff girls and my little pony and has never written on an all women writer's team.  Let's smash all of the firsts on the series.

We pitched a writer's lab and got 750 applications from the continent.  It was so tough.  25 were short listed and we invited them to Lukaska for a 10-day animation bridging the gap.  We are hoping they will plant the seed of something beautiful in then in any mate, space by pitching their ideas to the likes of many broadcasters and partners in the future.  We could only choose six but then we choose a.  They represent countries in Africa.  Senegal, Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, gap Zambia and one cape townian on the team, yeah.  And these writers are the voice of the series guided and shaped by the story editor and head writer in Los Angeles.  What we are seeing is skills transfer at the highest level.  The series will play nationally and release to 150 countries in two years time.  Sorry, you going to have to wait.  The idea is this is an extremely high quality series authentically spoken from women on the continent to the world.

These are some of our fabulous writers from the work some in Luksaka.  Right now we are in preproduction.  This was them on table mountain.  Ehave 20 epicissoids to produce and we are on script eight.  I know a lot of people don't think Africans are funny but this it funny.  That is a little case study of what what we have been doing at a local level.

>> MODERATOR: I don't take issue with case study, but I take issue with little.  One question.  You were upbeat about the role that the streamers are playing, the subscription VOD services, video on demand services offering that they are adding  a new possibility inside the value chain.

At the moment this series with Netflix, how do you see the future for African content in terms of the emergence and consolidation of locally native platforms?  You referenced aroku which was born to service where to offer Nollywood pictures to the world.  Do you see them becoming alternative partners?  In theory and as a priest to in tee pendent producers I should know it is always better to have several points of entry than one or two.

>> VANESSA SINDEN: If there would be other streaming platforms.

>> MODERATOR: Sustainable that can champion your content.

>> VANESSA SINDEN: I don't know how they can be sustainable.  I'm excited about Disney plus and what original content is going to be created.  I think the Giants who have such an appetite for risk are the only ones that can pull it off.  I think Aroku is headed for tough times.  We should make sure that African stories go to the world and use the platforms that are the best platforms for that.  I would say the mix would be linear broadcast, traditional broadcast models.  Do it film if you must but make sure we have the right partners on board to give it a good budget because it is tough out there.  Around let's make sure we have make short films in the meantime.  What we are see is a shortage of women directing and writing in the space and short films help them create and stretch their creativity and try to direct.

My strategy and our studio strategy is more about spreading it across traditional but giant you know structures that are set up rather than new ones coming up.

>> MODERATOR: Thank you.  I'm sure you will have questions for Vanessa.  Hold them for now.  We will roll out the workshop speakers part if you don't mind and then leave time at the end for you to engage with the speakers.  I would like to move on so Sigrun Neisen and Sarika Lakhani.  You are team, in fact.  One of you is more the institutional side and the other is a producer.

We will start with you, Sigrun.  One of the big words we heard from Vanessa is gaps between the huge talent in Africa that exists and the ability of the infrastructure to enable it to professionalize and make content that is cultureally relevant locally and globally.

Why is Deutsche Welle Akademie involved in that space and what are are you trying to achieve and why is the cooperation ministry supporting you in this endeavor?

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: Thank you very much.  I'm not sure everybody in the room know WaaS the Deutsche Welle Akademie is doing.  It is part of the W -- oh, I can do that.  Thank you.

>> MODERATOR: Green.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: The DW is part of the Deutsche Welle Akademie DB.  The foreign broadcaster from Germany.  And we asked DW Akademie cooperation in terms of media development cooperation.  We are the strategic partner of the Federal Ministry of economic corporation a development of Germany.

And therefore we are involved in film development and mainly in Africa.  Because Vanessa will are said so many important things on making local content grow and enabling the industry to grow and as well and the education for talent in Africa.  And this is what we are doing and helping to support until different African countries which is part of the master plan with Africa of the -- we are supporting.

>> MODERATOR: Stands for minister on corporation.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: Exactly.  Exactly.  Yes.  Exactly.  To so we are the main strategic partner for media development corporation and as well in film.

For several years now we are supporting film project in different African countries which Sarika will tell you more about in detail because she is the one implementing one of our long-running projects in Kenya.  So what I'm going to tell you more about is more the outer part and then the framework that we are doing.

And let me just say that when I'm saying film or when we are talking about film, it doesn't mean that we in our work in different African countries is not limited to feature film but as well to web series or documentary and the main objective is the education.  So when it comes to film and -- oh, there went something wrong.

>> MODERATOR: Sorry about that.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: So we are having two objectives when this comes to film supporting.  And the one thing is to use film as a job creator.  We believe that film is a job creator.

Because local film production needs to involve a lot of local staff.  And a lot of jobs are being needed for a big production such as Sarika is going to tell about and this is what Deutsche Welle Akademie is mainly doing in film.  We are helping with capacity building of film makers and media professionals in all areas like in all jobs which are used for film.

Because and in that way we are having or we are supporting film in two aspects.  In one way believing that film should be supported in a way of high quality film.  So on international standards and helps the industry grow to learn to produce in international standards.  And to connect and -- connect the industry to a bigger picture.

Bigger -- saying that wrong, sorry.  Not the bigger picture -- to the international standards and to help people being ready for international companies coming in to maybe to produce and connect the international markets.  And the other thing that we are -- sorry this is again wrong.  What you should see there is strengthening freedom of -- strengthening the freedom of expression.  Which is the other big pillar of our work of DW Akademie.  For example, which is a good picture here, a nice many we are producing for example a, a documentary series.  And it is about the pan African migration and enables, aerospace of all, producers -- first of all, producers to raise their voice on their point of view of migration and different point of views and bringing people into dialogue about migration.  And not even -- and this is a very important project because what comes -- you know, what is always shown or seen on our media, not always, but a lot, is that the migration to Europe.  But this project shows the migration within Africa and Pan-African countries.

Is also meant for people -- for bringing people into dialogue with each other and showing the different opinions or the different point of views.

>> MODERATOR: A little squished.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: Sorry, something happened to the --

>> MODERATOR: Intriguing.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: I don't know what happened there.  This slide meant to show you that we did during the last year is we already have already trained over 1,400 film makers during the last nine years.  And this is -- this was in over 20 different African countries, of course, in different projects and in over 30 production.

This was just on the numbers.  Maybe let's see what -- yeah, so let's see.  This one is quite okay.

>> MODERATOR: Yeah, it is.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: The last one is quite okay, finally.

(Laughter).

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: And this is a little bit look into the future because what we are doing now is like we are doing the big projects now for different -- for several years.  But as well now we started to have a new pilot project in 2018 concentrating on film and film -- and supporting content, local content in African countries.

And so we tried to find out what is actually the need and we are still trying to orientate on what the markets need.  The markets are so different and every market needs some different or something different.  And here of two new projects that we just raised, just started to work with.

And those two are the one is in Nigeria and it is about a film school only for women because it was found out that in the -- you all, of course, know Nolliwood and the huge industry and in all film industries there is a lack of women film makers.  And as you already stated in your wonderful project, here is another example of a project where female film makers are supported.

And this is going to be a school concentrating on female film makers in Lagos.

And the other is "the Tibeb girls" for primary school girls in the Ethiopia and something already described as being a superhero.  And we just started this project in Ethiopia with the story boarding workshops and also about not only of producing the series but also, of course, producing our having supporting the local film makers and the local Ethiopian creative artists for what is needed on the context and helping the local studios to grow.

And this is what we are trying to do with our work at Deutsche Welle Akademie we are supporting, on the one hand, what you -- what you unfortunately could not read -- is that we do always have the two legs that we are trying to support the industry by supporting the capacity of film makers and media professionals.  And the other thing is having to speak up film makers and other media professionals by giving them a chance or a platform to speak up and as well promote their freedom of speech.

>> MODERATOR: Could I ask a question for you.   I see the two of you as an ensemble.  I see you, Sarika, you are the frontline end of the project because you have been involved in making seven feature films in Kenya in the last.

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: 11.

>> MODERATOR: 11 years.  They are very much made to what you loosely call an international quality standard.  I imagine that the strategy there was again to bridge a gap is your reference to capacity building and to make this content in a sense enhance its opportunities to access the distribution systems nationally and internationally.  Do you want to take us through these?

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: So we were founded 11 years ago by a German --  a German company.  Sorry.

We are fund -- we were found by Tom and his wife and the idea was to train of a African film makers on making films by making films and by training these film makers, we found out that there is so many story and so many unique stories and stories that can only come from that part of the world that it is once they are given the platform to be seen on the world stage, it gives a new voice and a new opportunities to these film makers.  That is the core idea.  I'm a film maker by profession at heart.  We all are have we have nothing to do with international cooperation or education.  I only attended film schools, I never designed one before.  The truth is you have to know how to make films in order to know how to make them.  We invented our own model 11 years ago.

And we are the scene why the ministry for cooperation and development even go got into the field.  We have produced seven feature films who have been successfully shown all over the world.  So we screen at the Toronto film festival and win awards in Berlin.  Our films have had a lot of exposure.  And to show you how that looks like when we train how to make films by making films, I brought a little trailer with me.

>> MODERATOR: So we need to shift that out.  That's great.  And bear with us.  We're going online, funny enough.  Scary stuff.

(Laughter)

¶¶

>> Where am I?

(Applause).

>> MODERATOR: Before we jump back on this, I suppose a provocative question would be these look terrific and I know they are because I have seen some of them.

They are excellent for festivals, they would probably do extremely well if they were supported for release in cinemas.  As you make these you give the reason for people to make them and then what is the leave behind in terms of building capacity from your point of view?

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: First of all, I might say that I couldn't do that without our partners in Kenya.  So we are one foundation space in Berlin and we have the partners in crime as I might call them, ginger and Guy Wilson from ginger, Inc. films in Kenya.  We speak with technology not only on a daily but on an hourly basis.

11 years ago the market and landscape was a lot different than it is today.  There are -- -- there were a lot of people who had great ideas but didn't know how to exactly -- what the skill set is even -- what does so -- some people know what an actor does.  Some people know what a director does.  What does the producer do?  And we are as well, we are about the production, designer, the sound person, we are about the editors, we are about the whole -- we are training the entire landscape of film makers, the craftsmanship.

So that is where we were 11 years ago and now things have changed due to our films as well.  And what we found is that it is great that our film makers and our films travel to all of these festivals but then what?  Because if there is a lack of funding and lack of infrastructure, a lack of I may say so, policy in place, then there are very limited ways for the film makers besides our initiative to make their own films.

And as I'm a film producer, obviously we worked with this great talent, and we want to see them flow and nourish and we want to do more projects with them.

One of the things we got involved in three years ago was creating a tax incentive for Kenya.  There is no film -- unlike south Africa there is no film fund in place, there is no tax incentive in place.  There is absolutely no.

>> Support.

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: Support.  Support is a big word.  But there are no substantial policies in place where you as a Kenyan or international producer who wants to produce a film from that part of the region can go to an international market because the first question would always be what are you bringing with you from your own country?  And then you can say yeah, network and maybe a helicopter shot or maybe I know some people and they will do that for free.  But that is not something you can put in a financing plan.

And in order to be taken serious on the international film market, and I just want to point one thing out.  The beauty about film is that it can travel very easily.  So unlike any other product, unlike let's say a cultural product or whatever industries, film is something, gentlemen, it takes some time to make it but once it's ready it with easily be distributed.

Without further regulations, unless there is censorship.  It can be a fast-traveling and fast-earning project.  What we have found is the gap in policy.  And we were wondering how can we support the local film makers is closing that by demanding and making it visible that there is this need for a change in the government on how they acknowledge their creative industries.

>> MODERATOR: That thank you.  If I may put in my two cents worth.  In the television space that I know, the mid sized television drama company the dilemma is acute.  In order to sell a concept o are a soap opera, a long running half hour drama series that appears in the prime time there is so little capability with local broadcasters.  Political willingness to acquire local content at the price compatible with the price of production, very often they have to go through MNET in south Africa and then sell to their own domestic broadcasters as a second resale.  A measure of the gap and journey to the economic sustainability for a lot of people trying to make a living with those products.

I'd like to --  I have plenty of questions.  I'm sure others will.  I would like to move on new to the music sector and reintroduce Santiago Schuster Vergara who is going to talk about the Chile song writers and singers have adopted in order to insert their repertoire into the broadband networks that are today absolutely today the centrality of the marketplace for music.  So over to you.

>> SANTIAGO SCHUSTER VERGARA: Thank you very much for the invitation, Bertrand.

And before to talk about my personal experience in the promotion of local content, I would like to say that inclusion is a very sensitive word today in Latin America.  And especially in my country.

Maybe you have known that in the last weeks in my country we have very big protests, violent protest.

The reason why is not because we have a bad economy because the Chilian Chi in the context of Latin America is one of the most success economy in macro economical figures.  But the problem is inclusion.  Because the opposite of inclusion is discrimination.  Is marginalization.  And, of course, is poverty in participation.

And when I wish to talk about inclusion, I would like to say that for us inclusion is not a secure success in dissemination of local content but it is a way to get opportunities for all of the musicians, composers, artists, performers.  Not only the success composer, but, of course, the unknown composers.  Not only for the young people who are musicians, but to the old musicians also.

And then for that reason, I think that we are discussing about inclusion, participation is the right word that we have to use.

And then my experience as CEO in an office society for a long time, in a musician sew stity, I have some experience that I would -- society, I have some experience that I would like to share with you.  The title of my presentation is Small Venues for Big Audience.  Why?  Because sometimes we think in the digital network we need big infrastructure for disseminate-- for the dissemination of our local content.

I think we need to be creative also in the ways in discovering the ways of promoting our content.  In regard to music, maybe we have a difference.  Because in music today we don't have a problem with the production of the music.  Audio visual, I understand that you need to put biggest for the on financial effort in producing audio Visual work.  But in music you have to take a huge musical offer in the network.

The problem of music dissemination of local content musical dissemination is disability.  It is difficult for the musicians today to be part of the network with some visibility.  And then in my experience we have -- I would like to share some experience that it is not a big success, but it is a way to find new model of local dissemination and local inclusion.  Sorry, it's not my computer.  Thank you.

The first one is small S CD concert.  SCD is the Chilean management for Tuesdayic activities.  And small SCD concert halls are project that has four small concept halls in Santiago or capital and in Valparaiso.  They are not big halls.  They are only -- they only have around 100 to 300 seats, that's all.  But what is interesting is that they present day-by-day Chilean musicians with different kind of music but they use this concert for some kind of promotion in the network.  In the digital network.

For example in the year in 2019, they have presented 412 concerts in those halls.  It means 1,000 and a half concert -- sorry, artists on the stage.

Those concerts have been produced as audio visual.  And in the website of there of the Salas Scd there are 600 concert predeuce the audio visual.  That is an important thing for the composer and Chilean musicians because this means that they have a window to show their works.

And then the small audience of 100 or 200 people is expanded to the digital network in YouTube.  That is the case of those 629 concert.

The second example is Sello Azul and OvejaNegra.  Blue label and black sheep label.  Two independent that were founded by the same authors and musicians in my country.

Why they funded these kind of enterprises?  It is only because in the late '90s the major, the big companies abandoned the local musicians because they had to reduce cost.  And the first thing that they did as a measure for to improve the economy was to cut the cost in local content.

And the local society started with those kind of recording companies.  And it was in this case it was a very big success because in 2010, these two companies had the most high amount of launches are musical albums, launched in Latin America.

And it means that that they produced more than 200 albums.  It was the first recording company in Latin America in national production.  And this project has today 18 years.

And it is interesting also to understand that, of course, the musical industry crisis end in a new model of business.  And now these national companies into move to a new model, a business model, which is to -- not to support directly to the local group, but to support the local or the national independent companies.  And today, this project this move into a new stage, a new phase of production with success.

The third project is Autores enV irreconcilable differences vo.  It is authors broadcasting line.  It is similar, will it is has a small concert hall for 200 seats.  And what they are doing is so produce the individual in live concert in this concert hall.

And immediately they upload the concert but also they disseminate the concert in TV paid with an agreement with a very important TV cable in Montae.  It is interesting because the repertoire respond to the needs of small countries.  Only three million and a half -- half million people.  So for that reason this project is very useful for the composer.

They have had 180 concerts in a year.  And in the YouTube channel, they have 22 million visits.  And the project had today 10 years surviving in this complex context of music dissemination.

The fourth it is a very important one because it is a project of what I call the new publishers in the industry.

I think that many people, many young people who work with musicians as promoter, as agent, or simply the people who help the musicians in disseminate their work are the real new publishers in the 21st century.  The old concept of a financial publisher I think is an obsolete concept for this new stage, new face of musical or local musical dissemination.

What this mean, that it is important that those people who are involved in musical work not as a composer or as a musician but as a content agent has to be involved in the value chain of the music.  This project is the Fluvial festival organized in a small city in the south of Chile and have around 200 young producer not only from Chile but from or countries they exchange experience and they have -- they have around business and it is, indeed, a very interesting experience that I -- okay -- that is time is gone again.  And as you can see, in this picture, they have had -- well, they gather 260 professionals in music and we had 11,000 people attending the festival.  And I think this is a new way of local content.

And then finally what I would like to say is the new times need new ways of conduct the musical business.  Not only think it in majors, in the majors, but in independent producers and the small places for big audience.  Thank you.

>> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  We have a little less than 19 minutes left.  Thank you so much for being so disciplined about it.

And I'm sure I have tons of questions that I would like to ask but I want to give a chance to people in the room to interact with you now and maybe make -- come back to you about some of the things they heard.  Who would like to kick that off?  Don't be shy.  Shane.

>> Thank you for the presentation.  I want to go leave now and watch all of the shows that you just showed.  That was amazing and listen to the music.  Can you give us some ideas as far as, you know, promoting local content?  How has the internet been helpful and then if you have any kind of Kens about what the internet has done to maybe not protect your products?

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: I can give an example in 2011 when we plow deuced Na Ricky robi half life which is up to today Kenya's most successful feature film, we were overthrown by the demand -- I mean no feature film has made Kenyans run to the cinema.  And the film was in Kenyan cinemas for six months straight.  We outlived Bond.

We weren't prepared for that at all.  No one was.  No one had anticipated that something like that could happen.  And obviously we also found our film on the internet.

And then in those days you -- we found ourselves within the discussion of making the film accessible and for people to watch and on the other hand, the rights holders who this is not a hobby what we do as creatives.  This has to make, you know, ends meet and bring food to the table.

So we find ourselves in a discussion where we thought okay, a do we do now because obviously there is no infrastructure in place.  And as usual, that is not necessarily a bad thing.  It is a gap for opportunities.  And what can this opportunity be?

And we -- this gap is now automatically filling itself with the likes of Netflix because piracy is not the hot shit anymore.  10 years ago people were telling me that it is a good thing that people pirate our film because that way it is public, you know, it is in the public domain and should belong to everyone and everyone should be able to watch our film for free and it is hike you find yourself in a discussion with people who have no sense of understanding of what rights are and that these rights are generated, you know.  Other people go eight hours to work and get paid by the hour and we generate rights with is the currency we are dealing in.

So the internet, the internet in the beginning was quite a challenge, I would say.  And now with the streamers it is filling that gap because also what we have to put into perspective is that how much does content cost?  And I want to say that for Kenya and east Africa people were under the impression content doesn't have to cost anything because it is brought to them for free or on tele, music, you accept it and it is socially accepted to be a pirate.  And to raise the awareness this is something you should pay for.  I must say that the likes of Netflix has helped us because people -- it is affordable.  So middle class people can pay for it.

And it has -- and it has made it more easy to access the content.  By the way, I don't only want to say Netflix.  Actually what is more affordable is Somax.  So --

>> MODERATOR: Shomax being the VOD service.

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: 300 Bob a month and that is about $3 per month.  And nobody can tell me they can't afford it.  If they want to watch our film this is where you can.  We are film producers and content producers.  I'm not a marketing expert, I know everyone is trying to tell me I should.  Honestly, I can't be good at everything.  I'm good at something else.  I'm not good at marketing.  I'm not necessarily good at distribution.  I have a sense for the business.  But I think there are other people who are good at that and we need strong partners this that field.

>> MODERATOR: I sense that you may have something to add.  Thank you so much.

>> VANESSA SINDEN: I couldn't agree more.  The film goes to production and before it is released you can't share anything about the film.  The same about animation no videos can be released all hush-hush until it is released online and in the media.  I remember we were able to -- we were able to trace that the film was pirated from our Russian post producer, the distributor in Russia and it was quite a shock at the point where it cut your cinematic box office because it is now available online.

We felt to unprotected in that space.  And particularly with film makers you feel so exposed because you have no leverage as a creator in that space to demand what is yours as Box office revenue.  So coupled with it being pirated and you don't have revenue at all.

So it is very scary territory but that is 10 years ago.  What I can say is we love that we can put short films and tutorials online.  We had a webcast last year for African creators where we figured out through a survey what they would like training on and we had experts in the fields all in the studio our studio in cape town and did a webcast live and I love that about the internet and we have have materials veilable online.

When it comes to your bread and butter it is harm because you are not able to recoup and therefore not able to invest in a few film.  As a studio just to be completely honest we have a gaming division that does work for North American international stud doughs.  Pure service work but it does fund the development division that doesn't have revenue.  It needs to be funded because developing and writele and creating art can't cover itself in development stages.  You need to is cover to be the best and have the best pictures.  It is tough.  Tough out there.

>> MODERATOR: Just to clarify, the development division is the one that is working at the potential loss developing new ideas and new visual concept.  Identifying new writers, commissioning scripts all of which you have to engage at risk without knowing whether the film is going to be made or not.

>> VANESSA SINDEN: Exactly that.  You need the freedom and skills to create.  As private sector and government vector, one of the things I love to highlight in the session is if you back your creators and back them having opportunity to create you will see your investment come to fruition.  And yes, you won't see returns on that necessarily, but you need to wait it out.  It is a long-term vision, not a short-turn return.

So spot on development for us is we will currently have 10 projects in development all different stages, writing art work and we hope to pitch it around whenever we can.

>> MODERATOR: Thank you for that.  Both of you.

Let's have the next question.  Can you tell us who you are.

>> AUDIENCE: I'm Vlade from Article 19 from the office in central America.  I was like wondering if you can tell us and whoever wants to pick up like the series of reflections and questions.

Like when you doing this and conducting the processes from the Deutsche Welle Akademie and one fine day films and so on, if you are facing first some challenges in terms of skills in film making and technology or in the language of the -- of cinema and so on.

And if you also somehow like phase this like a challenges also in -- face this like as challenges in terms ofage.  If we are thinking on content production or local content if there is also like this kind of approach on the community, on the things that happens there, on their own language, on their own customs and the things that they are like -- like living there, and how it is like also like this process and how it is like then being reflected in the films and in the stories that people is telling.

And finally, if I understand like there is a process on film making and like it evolves and like different aspects and different actors and many things.  But if there is also like a consideration in terms of like at some point these films and this thing that people is creating and communities are creating and womens are creating, if you are considering at some point like using creating comments licenses or a way of spreading it more?  I know that now technology and different platforms allows and it is like more accessible to people.  But at some point like a thinking on another ways of licensing and like opening to --

>> MODERATOR: Can I trim some up.  Because that is five questions.

>> AUDIENCE: Sorry for that.  I was just like many things.

>> MODERATOR: Give us the distillation very quickly.

>> AUDIENCE: Who everwants to it was like something that I was now thinking about and basically like how each one it is like living this kind of process.

>> MODERATOR: Technical skills, language.  Help when out.  Forms of licensing.  That is three.

>> AUDIENCE: That is good.

>> MODERATOR: Who wants to take this?

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: I will start about the language thing.  And not language in terms of English German, Swahil but in terms of culture I guess was your question hinting or pointing to.

So if I give you a personal background.  I come from an Indian Kenyan German interculture relationship.  So I grew up in a household where none of that was ever addressed but it was by the mere fact that it was like that, like that.  So for me, the question of --

>> MODERATOR: You're Kenyan of Indian descent.

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: Indian and Kenyan and my mom is German and have two siblings and my kids are half Kenyan to complicate that.

(Laughter).

>> SARIKA LAKHANI: So because we get that question a lot.  And I can actually not give you a very sensible answer to that because I think if you come from a point where you meet as film maker and there is universial language in film just like there is in art which between us all as humans.  So, of course, there are some cultural differences.  Sometimes to bridge because I come from a househood I don't always understand the differences but as long as we speak, as long as we interact, as long as we meet as film makers and I think it is helpful that we have something to do in our environment.

Because we all know we all come together in order to make a film.  Even if we get stuck in the cultural differences at the end we still have to produce that damn film.  So we have to find a solution for it.

And I think that is extremely helpful because it is a very practical task ahead just like in my childhood we are a family and have to live as a family whether we like it or not.  I don't know whether the question also hinted to authenticity.  But because stories can -- stories in order to be authentic, this he have to be told from they have to be told from where they come from and they can only do that if they do come from there.  And scales international or universalally working.  I think we have good at finding local talent of artists with something to say and matching them with international professionals who know how that could possibly be put into a scream lined.

>> MODERATOR: Your suite of questions, all of the panelists wanted to answer.

>> SIGRUN NEISEN: I wanted to add because you have a technical.  At Deutsche Welle Akademie we are always trying to find the if possible local experts to bring into the project.  Sometimes it is not possible.  As you are working with international experts but, of course, it is always the goal and aim to find the local experts to bring them into the project and bring them together.

>> MODERATOR: Thank you for this.  I think you wanted to come in.

>> SANTIAGO SCHUSTER VERGARA: To add something from the side of music that yes, well the option of created common slices it one option in the work of copyright also.  And then in the case of the reality in Chile that I know is they all for the composer has the -- for them to elect one system or the other system.

And I think there is no conflict between a license by royalty or a license by or through creative comments license.

In Chile, which is the country that all related that I know with more accurate, some offers license through the system of the system of copyright and the other elect for other works to license through creative comments.  They are free for that, and it depends on the election of the author.

>> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  I'm afraid this is kind of all the time we have because I'm conscious that we have a very quick turnaround for the next workshop to be set up.  I don't want to put our marvelous technicians under more stress than they already experienced during that forum.  Thank you very much for your assistance.  I hope this has been helpful.  At the said at the beginning this is a workshop and it was about imparting information about how the professional content industries in two headline creative industries work, music and audio visual and I hope these people have managed to give you a glimpse of the sort of issues they face in their daily practice.  I think one the things that strikes me amongst many other things in what you said is there is no -- there are very porous boundaries between local and global and that in a sense especially in the audio visual where the investment intensity attached to making anything is so high the desire to globalize is story is possible also because stories want to travel as a natural kind of dynamics.  And what I find is also this need not mean that you bastardize the cultural integrity of the story you are tell.  Quite the opposite that you can think local but add global as well.  In that sense is what I heard at this point it may not be a love affair but you find that the insertion of online services in the value chain is proving to be very helpful development.

I think we need more time to discuss the ins and outs this of.  And thank you, Santiago for suggesting how solutions are being find at grass roots level to insert the repertoire like the American musicians.  There will be a report on the session.  And I forgot to introduce (?).  Thank every one of you for coming and encourage you to give a big hand to Sarika, Sigrun and Vanessa and Santiago and the German production alliance and the Deutsche Welle Akademie.  Thank you so very much for coming.  Thank you.

(Applause).

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