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IGF 2020 - Day 6 - BPF Local Content

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the virtual Fifteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF), from 2 to 17 November 2020. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 

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Hello again to everyone, Giacomo, Tomas, you should be able to speak whenever you went.

>>  Eddie:  I'm unmuted now.  Can you hear me?

>>  Yes.

>>  Hi, everybody.

Tomas, Sorena, there is one of the speakers that says not reduced.

>>  Yes, hi, Tomas, we can hear you.

>>  Mr. Wendland, welcome.  If you can hear us, please test your mic and camera if everything is well.

>>  Yes, good, thank you very much:  Is that you, Serena?  I can hear you fin.  Hope you can hear me.

>> Sorina:  Yes.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  I'll test my slides.  I'll be with you in a second.  Is there a way to test my slides and take it off again?

>>  Sorina:  You should be able to share screen.  The button at the bottom.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  You can see that?

>>  Sorina:  Yes.

>>  That's probably better, right?

>>  Sorina:  There is no difference yet.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Is that better?

>>  Sorina:  Yes.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Is it working?

>>  Sorina:  Yes.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Then I'll stop share.  I'll try the video if a few seconds.  Then we should be fine.  Good.

>>  Your attention, please.

>>  Sorina:  Yes, please.

>>  Good afternoon, good evening.  My name is Akimbo.  I'm online ready to support you with Richard as my cohost.  Sorina has been made cohost.  Carlos has been made cohost.  We are waiting for the meeting to start.  Once you give us the go ahead we'll start the streaming.  Prior to that, I would like us to remember that this session is recorded.  Under the IGF code of conduct and United Nations rules and recommendations.  Participants will be able to post their questions in the available box made prepared for them to post their questions.  And of course the moderators will teach you ones to raise your hand.  Who feel that they should respond with direct question.  Thank you.

>>  Sorina:  Thank you also.  I think we'll give it one or two more minutes as we have two panelists missing and then we go ahead.

>>  Okay.

>>  Sorina:  Hello, again, everyone.  I think we should start.  Giacomo, Carlos, when you are ready, let's start.

>>  I am ready.  Should we start with the first item of our agenda, Sorina?

>>  Sorina:  Yes.  Carlos:  Which is welcome and setting the scene.  Fantastic.  Let's see if I can set the scene.  First I will try to make a summary, very short summary, I have five minutes of what the BPFs are.  They provide a platform to exchange experiences addressing Internet policy issues, discuss and identify emerging and existing relevant practices and are expected to be multistakeholder processes and their outputs to be community‑driven, which has been the case until now.  BPFs prepare the work in a series of intercessional discussions that culminate in a BPF session.  At the end of an IGF meeting which is what we're doing right now and outcome or document our report which is published as part of the IGF output at the end.

The objective of the BPFs is to collect from the community's experiences which will serve as a resource to inform policy discussions, standards development basing the decisions as well as public understanding, awareness and discourse.

It's interesting that there is more change in the procedures to define which BPFs are approved and should be carried out by the Secretariat.  Which is the main limit we have is the capacity of the Secretariat to support the BPFs and this defines the number of BPFs which can be carried out.

For 2021, proposals for the BPF intercessional provision should be submitted by one which is typical.  BPF proposals should be submitted ahead of the first face‑to‑face meeting of the next year 2021 in the case.  Mag members submitting a proposal are expected to take on the role of mag facilitators should the mag select the topic for a BPF.  Proposals coming from the community, this is important, can be for new topics or topics that build on previous BPF work.

For 2020, we had four BPFs:  Data and new technologies, storing best practices and cybersecurity, gender impact on shaping Internet policy and protection preservation remuneration, creative work and collective wisdom from a local content perspective.  That's our local content BPF.

Last year, the BPF local content decided to extend this call for these issues with special emphasis on preservation and promotion of languages and cultural heritage.  For this year, the proposal was that the BPF concentrates its work on one key element which emerged from the 2019 outcome report.  The need to further explore issues related to the protection, preservation and remuneration of creative work and collective wisdom from a local content perspective.

So, the overall theme for 2020 has been summary:  Local and indigenous content in the digital space.  Protection, preservation and sustainability of creative work and traditional knowledge.

The BPFs conducted, our BPF for 20 conducted an online public survey to collect case studies and examples of good or relevant practices on outlying issues.  The input submitted by the community reviewed many topics of interest to be considered for the possible recommendations.

We managed to put together a list of possible recommendations at the end of the document you have received, which is the draft outcome document.  And there are organising four basic overall themes:  Protection, preservation and promotion of local and indigenous languages, of course; protection, reservation and promotion of cultural heritage; protection, preservation and promotion of other forms of local content in the digital age; and, finally, local content production, issues of sustainability and funding.

These four topics are followed by many recommendations, which is impossible to describe in this short time span, which is in the report.  I mean the outcome doc.  I trust you all will read the outcome document and send your comments and suggestions.

Thank you so, Sorina, over to you, I think.

>>  Sorina:  Thank you, Carlos.  We're going to spend the next five minutes or so going quickly, quickly through some of the elements in our draft report.  But as Carlos was saying, it's a bit of a long report.  It has about 60 pages.  So it's impossible to cover it all.  We'll just give you a glimpse into what's good with the kind invitation for everyone to do take a look.  And if you have comments, to keep them until the end of the IGF.  So let me find my share screen button and then we go quickly through that.

And this is it.  So the topic we have sort of chosen for this year's draft report based on input we received from the community was ‑‑ is local and indigenous content in the digital space:  Issues of protection, preservation and sustainability of creative work and traditional knowledge.

How we put our report together, we ran a public survey.  We didn't get too many responses.  But those we did receive were useful.

There were also submissions from several organizations who are actively working on issues within the BPF focus.  Some discussions held for online meetings with interested stakeholders, and then some additional research that the BPF conducted with the aim of shedding a bit more light on others successful with practices on the issues explored.

We structured the draft report, Carlos, I'm going to ask you to mute your mic, I think there is a bit of background noise.

>>  Carlos:  Oh, sorry.  Sorry.

>>  Sorina:  Thank you.  So as I was saying, the report is structured around four main topics.  And the first of them is protection, preservation and promotion of local and indigenous languages as Carlos was also mentioning a bit earlier.  And on the screen you can see some of the guiding questions that we have used in our attempt to find examples of good and successful practices on these issues.  And these are some of the case studies we underlined in the report.  So starting with UNESCO's work at the international level on supporting multilingualism and local and indigenous language.  And then some examples of what has been done to empower youth to create work on the Internet and we will speak more later.

Preserving local languages and fostering local content and we have Wikimedia speaking about some of their projects here.

Then some initiatives which are focused on the digitalization of indigenous languages.  A few examples of radio and TV stations in local languages who are also working towards digitalizing their distribution of content, I would say.

And then last but not least the facilitation of access to COVID‑related information in local languages via digital tools, something that we really miss this year.

The second large section of the report is on the protection, preservation and promotion of cultural heritage.  Again, via digital tools and how digital tools are used to protect and preserve cultural heritage.

And some of the examples here are libraries and how they have been using digital tools to preserve cultural heritage.  Then issues of intellectual property in the context of traditional knowledge and traditional cultural expression and WIPO will do a bit more on this.

And then local and indigenous communities to preserve their culture and knowledge and protect their intellectual property.

The promotion and negotiating of cultural heritage.  Then a few examples of how tech solutions have been used to manage and publish cultural collections and including the digitalization of intangible cultural heritage.

The third section of the report is on a few other examples of protecting, preserving, and promoting other forms of local content in the digital age.

And here we have been trying to shed light on libraries as facilitators of the creation of local content.

Then the user free online tools to encourage its creation.

Then examples of initiatives focused on providing funding and training for local artists to freely express themselves, again through digital means.

And last but not least, web archives as a way to preserve access to content in local languages.

And the last section but not less important was around issues of sustainability and funding for the production of local content and its distribution through digital means.  And here the case studies and good practices we have looked at related to using digital tools to empower local producers and especially local artisans, how e‑commerce infrastructures have been used to support rural communities, production distribution, monetization to some extent of local content then a quick look at governmental policies to incentivize the production of local content and services in local languages.  And here the BPF has been doing a bit more work than previous years.  So in this report, we just remind the community about that previous work.

And, finally, local newspapers, the relation between promoting local languages and dealing with sustainability challenges.

So these have been the four main areas we focused on.  And as Carlos was saying, the report ends with some recommendations around those four main areas.  Here are just a few examples.  I'm not going to go through them now because we're going discuss them during the debate section of this session.  This is just the quick glimpse for you to see that we do have recommendations in the report.  And there's sort of an encouragement for you to scroll through the report, if not the whole document, at least the recommendations section and add your own contributions to what else we can do to support local content in the digital age.

And with this I end and many thanks to everyone who has been contributing to this report.

Carlos, Giacomo, back to you.

>>  Carlos:  Giacomo now, right?  For the presentations and discussions.

>>  Giacomo:  Yes, it's me.  I was trying to unmute myself.  I hope all the panelists are with us.  I will briefly introduce all of them.  We have the order in the programme The Guarda of UNESCO, the programme specialist for the supporting linguistic diversity in local and indigenous cultures.  Wend Wendland from WIPO who is responsible for the division of intellectual property in the context of traditional knowledge.

And we have then Eddie Avila, Director of Rising Voices,el he is an Davenport from Wikimedia, public policy counsel.  And then we have Stephan.  At IFLA, the library association.

And Rhodri from S4C Wales.  And Carlos Garcia Morlexer, editor of the La voz del Calicia.

So, let's go directly to Garda if she's with us?  Christina?  Please.  The floor is yours.

>>  Christina:  Thank you very much.  Indeed I'm using my colleague Christina's, but very happy to be all together with you.  And of course many thanks for all contributors who contributed to the preparation of this report.

And without further delay, I would just like to share what are UNESCO's views in connection to the protection, preservation of local content.  And then in the context of this report, we wanted to draw attention to the importance of languages.  Because languages are something that is really close to our heart.  And local content is an expression of very often a Century old wisdom and reflection of current realities which are colded in languages.

And what we can see today many languages are disappearing.  And there is kind of a stable trend where languages and especially the users switch to dominant languages.  And local content, of course, is in danger, as well, because it won't be created, it won't be passed to the next generation.

And during my short intervention today, maybe I would like just to draw attention to a few important aspects, reasons why as some languages are more or less vulnerable and why we see less and less local content being created and especially shared through different channels including, of course, the community members.

But one important element that I would like to emphasize since early beginning when we speak about languages and local content, we first of all have to speak about the users.  Language users and signers.  Because we are first ones who create content by those who are sharing the content and there are those who are preserving the content.  These are not theoretical aspects.  They are real human beings who live in different situations around the world depending on the social, cultural, economic, political situations.  And what is important to make sure what language endangerment according to UNESCO is in danger the younger generation, children no longer use that language.  And this is why we would like to emphasize where the local content should not be disconnected from users but as well would look very carefully to the different language and as well age groups.  And if children are no longer learning languages in mother tongue in their home environments and we don't have appropriate content in those languages, probably we will sooner or later will switch to more dominant languages.  And, where for, dominant, content available in dominant languages.

And this is why there's a clear trend around the world where we have more and more content created in the dominant languages.  And there is a need, an urgent need, to encourage creation of local content generated by the users themselves, generator produced by professional organizations or institutions.

And what is well important to take into account with demographic situation of communities, language speakers, in most communities, where content is produced because the small and vulnerable community is the more external pressures it will face to adopt to the dominant languages.  And from one side it is a very positive phenomena.  When we learn more languages, we become more multilingual.  We know more than one language, we are able to communicate with each other.  We can share our views and learn from each other.  But at the same time, we consume more and more content which is produced or generated in dominant languages.  So it means in a way we are leaving some speakers, some users, and I would emphasize signers, those who use sign language, behind, living with smaller languages and leaving behind with development.

Because we'll see that there are many factors that are related to education systems where education systems are based on monolingual curriculas where the curricula text box resources are designed and we are not necessarily localized, bringing real life stories, which would be built on local content once again.

And obviously globalization.  We speak clearly there is a massive migration from rural to urban areas.  And local content, which was very much appreciated, maybe circulated, shared by older population community, especially those which live in remote areas and once family moves to urban areas, disconnection sometimes is interrupted disturbed enough because we could see with technology nowadays contributes to kind of helping to ensure the family ties using a video conferences like we have today or even more simple solutions.  But at the same time, there is a gradual loss of native languages, graduate loss and replacement with the dominant languages.  And therefore our local content becomes more and more used for in dominant languages.

So, what we would like to emphasize as an organisation, there is a need to raise awareness around the world.  And we have one of the really unique normative instruments around New World which is recommendation 2003, which is concerning the promotion, use of multilingualism, universal access to cyberspace where UNESCO encourages all stakeholders in particular Member States to develop multilingual content tools and resources, establish, as well, systems and support professional networks and partnerships.

Next year we will be releasing world authors of languages, which will be an online repository for linguistic diversity and multilingualism and we will be inviting many stakeholders to share more data that they have to have more complete picture of languages and as well indirectly to local content.  Each we will be as well release a world report which will summarize data we will collected last years.

But most importantly what I would like to encourage today, what everybody who is participating and will be seeing this session later on will join our efforts and contribute to organisation of indigenous languages.  I know many of you are aware but last year 209, it was a year of indigenous languages.  We know quite well, what many indigenous languages are in danger.  Actually majority of them around the world are spoken by smaller communities, very often in rural, very rural areas.  They are freely limited infrastructure, conditions and of course we can observe as well during the COVID‑19 global pandemic where most of those communities, as well, are in bigger danger because we do not necessarily receive live, important life preventive information about COVID and what are the measures, what are the solutions in place which are not provided in local languages.  And where for, initiatives and I would say international cooperation mechanism like international decade is under a unique opportunity for us to first of all raise awareness about this issue as well to mobilize resources where we would be institutional, human resources, financial resources, and as well to position language and together with local content which would go together by promoting multilingualism and diversity to come immediately local content the creation and dissemination issues in the global agenda.

And I would like to probably complete this first part by saying what we would like to see what the future strategic global development agendas would address these issues more in more obvious way and would have more opportunities for all stakeholders to contribute.

And to conclude, I would like, as well, just to share information UNESCO leased universality in the stream work which is a very concrete project which includes a set of 303 indicators to assess how well the national stakeholders perform on the principles related to rights, accessibility, multistakeholder participation.  And we have already national assessments ongoing in 21 countries across five contents.  And it's very interesting to see what it actually contributes to our ongoing work‑related to the international indigenous languages world report which there is a need for more efforts and especially developed enabling environment which would force online content creation in local languages, inform us.  And there is a need obviously for, I would say, language‑friendly policies for preservation and promotion of cultural and linguistic diversity online.

There are many examples where public information available on websites, governmental websites, in public domain are not available in non‑dominant, obviously non‑national languages.  And where for communities, which use those languages, do not have full access to information, are not able to participate in meaningful, cultural, life in general.

So it is important that this work continue.  And we would have more evidence‑based data.  And those issues we object able to convinces policies and decisionmakers.

I'll stop here.  And I will return now to the session.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you.  You said the voice of indigenous are not heard.  And you talk a lot more than what was expected.  So I hope that the other will be more diligent because they don't have the excuse to be minority of oppressed minority.  So I give the floor now to WIPO that is not an oppressed minority.  And we have with us Wend Wendland that is the Director of the traditional knowledge division.  Please, Wend, explain what you are doing because a lot of initiatives are you following this field exactly.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Giacomo, thank you, good evening, good afternoon.  It's lovely for me to be here and lovely for WIPO to be here.  Thank you for having included us.

And you're doing amazing work.  I've read the report very closely.  And I think that I'll be very concise.  So don't worry about time.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  I'll be very quick.  And I'm going actually just highlight five of our activities, of our practices which actually I think connect quite directly to your report and to the recommendations.

I just now need to find a way of ‑‑

>>  Giacomo:  Sharing the screen.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Right.  Exactly.  Can you see the screen?

>>  Giacomo:  Yes, we can see perfectly.

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Perfect.  Now the next challenge is to change the pages.  There you go.

So five things.  The first one is work we've been doing for many years with indigenous peoples to empower and equip them to record their own cultural expressions.

This is ‑‑ this couldn't be more about making local content.  But from an intellectual property point of view, what we are doing is putting the indigenous peoples behind the camera so they are the producers of the footage and of the recordings.  And, therefore, under conventional copyright law and enabling rights laws as you may know, they own the copyright.  So they are sovereign.  They have agency.  They are developing their own content with our equipment, which we actually give them.  We train them on it.  And we give it to them.  But then from an IP point of view, from an intellectual property point of view, they own the IP rights, which is empowering and important for them.

Secondly, and ‑‑ knows this very well.  We work closely with UNESCO on international year last year, 2019 I think it was.  We have a very short animation which we've had translated or dubbed into indigenous languages.  We have it in northern Siamese, southern Sarmi.  We also have it in Kidis.  And we have an open access policy at WIPO.  And we are very keen and interested in partnering with others who wish to help us to translate and dub this animation.

As I said, it is very nice.  It is very short of the it's 4‑1/2 minutes long.  And we're looking for partners to work with us and, again, making this content accessible in indigenous and local languages.

Number, three, our indigenous entrepreneurship programme is aimed at empowering indigenous peoples to make strategic and effective and smart use of intellectual property tools in their businesses and in their projects, including in e‑commerce.  We just running a series of webinars on that now.

But let me introduce to you Tia, who is from ‑‑ she's a Mari from New Zealand.  We currently mentor 24 indigenous women from around the world, each with a little business.  It could be a design.  It could be a medicine.  It could be a cosmetic.  That a little business or project that raises intellectual property issues.  And we have many partners we work with in this.  So Tia, her project is to establish a database of authentic indigenous images and authentic indigenous sounds that third parties can then access and then license.  And we are helping her with a copyright management of that, setting up copyright guidelines, protocols, and model contracts and so on.

Very practical.  And I think, as I said in the beginning, that connects directly with the report that you have produced.

In this context, a little shoutout for Jane Anderson's work that is in your report, as well.  We partially fund this.  And it's fantastic work.  And it's well‑described in your report.  The context platform.

And then fourthly I noticed in your report and the recommendations many references to libraries.  And I think IFLA might be participating in this.  We do a lot of work with museums, libraries and archives around managing IP questions and IP issues around intangible cultural heritage in their collections, whether that is traditional music, traditional art, designs, performances, oral histories and so on.  And we actually are busy updating guide at the moment.

And then, finally, I wanted to mention the ongoing norm setting that's taking place at WIPO.  We have a committee that has been meeting for many years now.  It's dealing with a very difficult issue.  And that is whether traditional knowledge and cultural expressions ought to be protected as a form of intellectual property.

Other work we do that I've been describing so far is working with in the existing IP system smart and strategic use of trademarks and copyright and so on.

But what this work is about is developing Sui generous or specially tailored intellectual property like systems.  We work with countries at the national level and in the international level.  We have a process underway at WIPO.  I'm giving you the name of the body there.

And this committee has been meeting for many years now.  They are draw texts that the Member States and the being stakeholders with many indigenous people who participate actively in this work.  And I've put up a little picture of what some of our meetings look like.  Unfortunately, as you can imagine, we're not meeting at the moment because of the pandemic.  But this is what a typical session looks like.

And the work is advancing, albeit slowly, these are very complex issues, as you can imagine.  And the key policy issues really that the delegates are pouring over, grappling with are the definition of subject matter, the beneficiaries, the scope of rights, and the exceptions to those rights.

So I promised to be short and to the point.  I hope I have been.  But I hope I also left time for the others and certainly I hope to have left time for Q & A.  Thank you so up.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you, Wend.  Very interesting ideas.  I was looking for these pages.  If you can put it in the chat, I think it would be useful for everybody to have a look at what are you doing and how your negotiations are going.

Then the next ‑‑ and to both of you, to Irma and to Wend, I suggest to listen carefully to the last example that we will have in the panel, one is La Voz.  And the other is S4C, how media could change the reality and the inverted curve about the use of languages without disappearing.  I think those are two interesting experiences there.

Eddie Avila, rising voices.  To empower indigenous youth to create more cultural linguistical diverse Internet.  Eddie, please.

>>  Eddie:  Yes, thank you very much.  Can you see my slides?

>>  Giacomo:  Yes, we can see your screen.

>>  Eddie:  Great.  Thanks for having me.  My name's Eddie Avila, the Rising Voices director from organizational Global Voices.

And we have been working with groups of indigenous language digital activists around the world.  And any time I have an opportunity to talk about their amazing work, I'm glad to do so.

And so we've been working officially since 2014 when we convened the first gathering of indigenous language digital activists in Mexico in the City of Oaxaca together with the library in Circo.  Before that, we saw an emerging movement of young people who were taking to the Internet to share their language and culture.  It was a very ad hoc type of activity.  Many people did so in isolation.  They didn't think anyone else was doing what they were doing.  And so we launched an open call for this gathering.  And so Rising Voices has been working to convene spaces, facilitate spaces so that young people who are using the Internet to promote their language can learn from one another.

And so we launched this workshop in Oaxaca, and we received about 150 different applications for about 30 slots.  And that's when it really clicked.  We saw young people who said "oh, I thought I was the only person doing this.  I didn't realise such and such was also doing similar work."

We're talking about creating social media campaigns.  Many were localizing free software into their languages.  Some were writing on Wikipedia.  Others were creating videos and audios and just very diverse mix of content.  But most importantly it was a place for people to connect and share experiences, share challenges.  Many times that are linguistic challenges that people face.  It's not simply as easy as writing on the Internet.  But rather there are some considerations, rather.  But the writing styles, you know, what happens when there's not a term for a new word, it doesn't exist in a language?  What do communities do to overcome those challenges?

There may be technical challenges where there's not a keyboard, even, to write on, to write in their language.

And also some social and cultural challenges that many groups have faced.  Maybe some of the questions about what to share on the Internet is really important to talk about.

So these meetings were about coming up with solutions but rather a space to talk about that.  And I think we achieved that.

When we first started 2014 with the first workshop in Mexico, we decided to replicate it in other countries.  We did one in Colombia.  We organized one in Ecuador, in Peru, in Bolivia where I'm currently located, in Guatemala and also in Chile.  And these were a place for people to meet one another and to carry over their work online.

So, all this work, all this talk about virtual connections, about, you know, remote learning, it's good.  But I think it'll never replace in person meetings.  And so those in person meetings really set the foundation for these ongoing connections.

And many of the people who connected in 2014 are still in touch today.  So I think that was a really important thing.

And so another activity at Rising Voices through our ‑‑ language activism in Spanish.  In addition to these gathers, we ran a series of social media campaigns.  And so these are all on Twitter.  And every week a different language activist takes ‑‑ manages the account.  And so they're here.  They're able to share their experiences.  Again, share these challenges.  Share whatever they want about their language for a week.  And then they rotate.

And so the Latin American one is called Act Lenguas.  I'll share the Lynn income the chat.  But it's real ‑‑ link in the chat.  It's a way for people to talk directly about their experiences.  With no filter.  With no, you know, media.  No need to wait for the media to come and cover their project or their activities.  But they could share it directly with others who are interested.

And so these campaigns are a way to amplify those voices.

Latin American one started in 2019.  In conjunction with the international year of indigenous languages and it carried on strong this year and we hope to continue next year and through the decade.

We've also ‑‑ here's one example.  So every week a different person takes ‑‑ manages the account and shares their experience.  We replicated to varying degrees of success in other parts of the world.  We had one for Africa language activists.  Also in North America.  And now in Asia, as well.

And so these have been really interesting experiences doing outreach and getting to know ‑‑

(connection to Zoom meeting lost, reconnecting).

In addition, Rising Voices has a directory that we're starting up.  It's still in a about way in Latin America where we invite people who have projects to share the information so we could be classified and categorized in a directory, like in a database.  So it will make it easier for someone else doing similar work for others doing similar things.

For example, if you're a speaker of the Quechua language, you could look and search all the projects working with Quechua, or all the projects working in Paraguay.  But also by tools.  So you could see who's doing what with podcasting.  So it's a very easy way to see what others are doing.  It's very much a work in progress.  And happily, there's more and more projects by the month.  When we started this in 2014, there were only a handful of projects in many countries.  But we've seen an explosion of interest.  I think people are seeing the power and the possibilities of using the Internet for promoting language.

But I think more importantly, these directories are designed to inspire people.  I think the Internet is not necessarily on for everyone.  I think there's different contexts involved.  And the language that has 25 speakers and only the elderly are speaking the language, then maybe the Internet using digital activism is not the priority here.

So I think the context is really, really important to see how people can adapt their realities, but more importantly they choose to do this.  This is not necessarily imposed upon anyone, any community.  But, rather, a community steps forward.  I am seeing what this group is doing.  I want to do the same for our language.  How can we share information?  How can we share experiences?  So it's really important to showcase and highlight the amazing work being done across the region.

And then ‑‑ sort of finally, I think is that people are taking matters into their own hands.  They're not waiting around for governments or institutions or the tech companies to create this content for them.  But, rather, they're doing it themselves.

I remember when a friend back in 2007 when he started to work with blogs, when I would search on the Internet for my language, I wouldn't find anything.  So we want to take it into their own hands.  So when the next generation comes along, they don't find the same void of information that we found.  So we're thinking ahead kind of laying the groundwork for more people.

And so I think finally just kind of my messages that just an amazing young people around the world, Latin America especially which I know probably better because I'm based here in Bolivia.  But they're the ones doing the really heavy lifting.  They're taking matters into their own hands.  You know, it's very much fueled by a passion and a love of their languages and the culture.  But they're finding solidarity with others.  And I think that's what we're trying to do with Rising Voices is to build those connections, build those networks.  We have networks from those different meetings.  But now we're also facilitating a regional network of digital activists in Latin America.  Right now we have 23 members from 7 different countries.  And I think they're ready to, you know, connect and partner.  And I think that's the las an the message that I want to send, the Internet is not a image teal collusion for language revitalization but rather it's part of an overall are strategy that includes academics, includes linguists, includes public policymakers, includes tech companies and organizations.  And I think we're ready to be those bridges that connect those people.  And I think one really good example is that Rising Voices was a partner in the international year of indigenous languages and that really opened the door for some of these young with people to get involved.  And I think there's lots of really interesting plans going forward and really looking forward to the decade.  I think it's going to be ‑‑ raise the profile of many of these young people and their work so that they can have a ripple effect and affect change in their communities but on a larger scale.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you very much, Eddie.  You also didn't respect the timing.  But thanks so many interesting things.  I hope that the other will forgive you.  Not me because as moderator, I cannot.

I hope that I will be more luck with Allison Davenport from Wikimedia Foundation that is the next speaker.

>>  Hi.

>>  Giacomo:  Did I scare you?  You will keep the five minutes?

>>  Allison:  Yes, I will.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you.

>>  Allison:  I just want to mention because of that, everything that I'm about to talk about right now is also included in the report.  So I really encourage people to check out the report.

And thank you so much for having us today.

I am from the Wikimedia Foundation.  We are the host of the Wikimedia projects, the most well known of which is Wikipedia.  And I'm going to talk to you today a little bit about how both the structural setup of our projects and specific incentive programmes have helped to grow local languages and locally relevant content on Wikipedia.

So I'm going to start with those structural encouragements because it's also a good introduction to Wikipedia if you're not really familiar with how it works.

So, so Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia that is entirely created and edited by our community members.  It's separated by language and not country.  And we currently have around 300 different languages on Wikipedia itself.

What these two aspects do for local content and local language preservation, it means that different language communities can decide for themselves within our policies what content they want to focus their time and energy on developing.

This helps make content much more relevant and more likely to engage new users.

And, further, by separating by language, we're able to create a Forum for languages which may be overcrowded or crowded out in countries that speak a much more dominant indigenous ‑‑ or official language.

One other structural element I'd like to mention is that we are a nonprofit platform.  And we are committed to being ad‑free.  This is really huge for our expansion into other locations and other languages.

One a for‑profit platform considers breaking into a new market, they have to consider things like the cost of translation for Terms of Service or the cost of content moderation in an unfamiliar language.

Because Wikipedia is built around how our editors do their ‑‑ make their own decisions about content on the platform, these considerations are not as relevant and also not as costly for the Wikimedia Foundation.

Ultimately, because an encyclopedia is a large amount of written text at its core, we tend to have aligned but not identical goals with the communities that are interested in preserving local languages.

Wikipedia is made up of a series of diverse, interconnected, comprehensive written articles and that's attractive to people who want large quantities of written language online.

Obviously this does not address languages which are spoken only.  And also puts the onus on indigenous language speakers to moderate their own platforms, which can be an issue for Wikipedias that are particularly small and don't have the sort of bandwidth to protect against coordinated disinformation campaigns, for example.

So those are some of the structural elements.  I'd also like to focus on two very specific initiatives that we have done to help grow indigenous languages on the projects.

First is a partnership that we undertook.  Yes, very quickly.  First a partnership that we undertook with both Google and the centre for Internet in society.  This was a programme called Glow:  Growing local language on Wikipedia.  The programme provided material support in the form of Chromebooks and Internet stipends for people working on the programme.  And also material incentives for article creation in the form of a contest with prizes.

This initial project helped volunteers create 4500 new articles in languages and improved insights into goggle's translation tools, which we think of as an important part of but not our entire language improvement strategy.  Since that time, over 14,000 Wikipedia articles have created with that content translation tool, which was developed as a part of that process.

I'd also like to highlight in light of COVID‑19 our partnerships with both public organizations and individual companies to get public health information out there in different languages.  We partnered with mole skin earlier this year to translate COVID‑19 information into 16 different African languages.  This was done in partnership with our African user groups.  And currently their articles about COVID‑19 are in 175 languages in Wikipedia.

We have just announced a recent collaboration with the World Health Organisation to release anti‑disinformation and public health information infographics on Wikipedia commons, one of Wikipedia's sister sites, under a free license so that they can be translated by anyone in our community to be spread throughout the full roster of our languages.

These very specific injections of, frankly, both resources and capital into these initiatives have really made a huge difference in growing these local language projects.  And so while we believe that those structural incentives are sort of what made Wikipedia popular for this early on, we also believe that these types of specific initiatives need to carry on in order to continue to see this growth.  Thank you.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you, Allison.  We are slowly improving.  For the last one, I will succeed only with the last speaker.  This is my chance.

Now it has been mentioned by many the role of the libraries in preserving and promoting the local languages and the local cultures.  And so we have Stephan from IFLA, that is the policy and advocacy manager.  I ask him to take the floor and to explain us what is exactly what they're doing in this field.

>>  Stephen:  Thank you, Giacomo, I will do my best to stick to five minutes.

>>  Giacomo:  Another under fake name.  We have problem with identity in this meeting.  Okay.  I take note.

>>  Stephen:  Okay.  When IFLA approached the govern net governance questions, the international federation of library association, we tend to think of a triangle of connections, competencies and content.  While libraries are strongly engaged in delivering content and skills, it's great to come back to content with this section because this is what brings libraries online and where libraries focus.

The topic for today is particularly relevant for libraries as we focus more and more on how we maximize our potential to be inclusive, to reach out to serve every group, not only in the work we do to preserve but also in supporting creativity for all.

To start with preservation.  Libraries and archives have a clear and recognized role including by UNESCO in ensuring the survival of documentary heritage including in digital form.

This covers both preservation of born digital heritage, for example, through web harvesting activities, and the conservation and digitization of physical materials.

Usually this duty covers all types of heritage.  We can see now how the choices made in the past about what heritage was worth preserving affects the way we see the present.  And it is important work ongoing to make sure that we are open and fair in our choices for the future.

Moreover, there can also be a tendency to think only of the biggest institutions involved in preservation.  National archives.  National libraries.

However, institutions at all levels have a crucial mission in collecting stories, testimonials, materials about their own areas and making them available.  This goes from the smallest public and community library, school libraries.  These are institutions which are there for this purpose.

This work can be essential in capturing histories, stories that might otherwise disappear.  And so to help ensure cultural survival and continuity.

For example, University of Alberta libraries work with born digital francophone materials in Canada or the work of libraries in Singapore with the Tamil digital heritage project.

Libraries in so many places also creating COVID archives, giving people the opportunity to record their own experiences and histories of the times they're living through.

Crucially, though, preservation is not a dead end.  While of course it's important that today's expression is safeguard for the future, it also needs to be available for the present.  And this is because from our point of view preservation, sharing, access and creation are all part of the same cycle.  What better way of encouraging creativity in any community than by surrounding people with it.

Therefore, libraries of all shapes and sizes are working hard to give access locally relevant materials that they hold as a basis not just for education and research but also for further creativity.  Falling cost of digitization and digital platforms really helps in this regard.

If you look at the report, there are many examples from Australia, Canada, Lithuania and Qatar all focused on stimulating local creativity.  There's a great example from Aruba in particular where the national library has been making content available during the lookdown to the Internet archives national emergency library as a means of supporting learning in the language.

Of course in doing this we recognize it's vital to apply professional judgment and ethics especially when working with indigenous materials in order to respect the interests of creators.

In terms of what's needed we need to share ourselves to respect needs, to make sure we're not missing anyone else in our efforts to collect and safeguard collections for the future and to support creativity in all groups.

We need laws and practices that allow for preservation, for sharing, for learning, including internationally.

Especially for groups scattered across borders or whose homes are threatened by climate change, this international approach is vital.

We need to find paths to not only reward the creators of today but also develop the creators of tomorrow.  And this requires careful choices around policy in order not simply to reinforce existing dominance but rather to promote local and indigenous creativity for the value that it is.  Libraries stand by and look to help.  Thank you.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you.  We are improving vastly than expected.  Thank you for the important remarks.  I think it would be useful if you could publish the links to the example that you mentioned, about the Australian, the Lithuanian and the Qatari libraries because I think there are web pages that could be useful for everybody to have a look at.

Now let's go to two examples of media.  Well, until now, we have other example institution, international organisation, activists network.  Now we have two media.

The first one is the S4C, Rhodri, which is responsible for the digital content of the S4C channel in Wales is with us.  Rhodri, the floor is yours.

>>  RHODRI:  Thank you very much.  I will share my screen.

Does that come up now?

>>  Giacomo:  Yes we can see it now.  Thank you.

>>  RHODRI:  So I will talk a little bit about the challenges, the opportunities and the content we've made in spite of those challenges in Welsh language.

>>  Giacomo:  Could you give some numbers?  Because if you look at the chart, one of the recording questions is how big the community we are talking about?

>>  RHODRI:  Absolutely.  The welsh language is spoken by around 600 to 800,000 speakers in Wales.  There are some unknown amount of speakers in England.  And there are some international speakers.  But, you know, roughly 600,000 speakers or the populations of 3 million in Wales.  So that's about 20 percent of the population.

I can give some more detailed stats in the chat if you want afterwards.

>>  Giacomo:  Perfect.  Great, thanks.

>>  RHODRI:  The challenges we face as a Welsh broadcaster is the ubiquity of English language content.  We are in a sea of content in English.  And our neighbors are making a lot of it.

So finding the attention of people is quite hard to do and that's a big challenge for us.  People are watching less television in a linear way.  Video on demand is squeezing public service broadcasting and other types, as well.  Technology is quite tricky at times and that of course has a cost.  Developing the new technologies all the time is quite difficult for a small broadcaster like us.

The speed of change is also very, very rapid, making things quite tricky.

So, we've begun our journey for digital transformation probably about three or four years ago.  And the main thing, really, is to try to move with the audiences as well as find new audiences.

The viewing population on television is aging.  And we want to improve our connection with people and really help give people the opportunity to engage with the Welsh language.

So there's a big shift now from TV first to do we do digital first?  And how do we grapple with that?  So here are some examples of how we've been addressing this.

The first one I want to show is Hansh, which is a social media content brand that we've produced aimed at 16 to 34‑year‑olds.  In 2016, we were losing this audience very quickly.  I had to make some decisions about what we were going to do.

So the opportunity was:  Social media.  And we decided to go all in.  To make ‑‑ change all the policy for making content for this age on those platforms.  Comedy, opinion, user‑generated content.  By this year we've grown to 50,000 followers on social and more than 9 million views a year.  And this has expanded to documentaries, Tik Tok, podcasts.

And I guess the lesson with this is always move with your audience.

We've tried really to address their concerns and be where they are.  That's the key thing.  I think Eddie mentioned this, as well, in his talk.  You have to go with where young people are accessing media and creating media, more importantly.

Another quick one is Welsh on Alexa.  So speech technologies are going to be a huge deal in the coming decades.  We're going to see it become everywhere.  And the access to this in even sort of midrange languages is not there yet.

So, you know, what are we going to do about this?

Well we're not going to be able to have Alexa in Welsh totally.  We want, though, to see how things might work.  So, we made a scale with a Welsh technology company which could understand Welsh commands through some clever coding and produce some speech, as well.

And this Welsh language podcast scale gives access to 50 Welsh language podcasts.  It is not perfect.  But it opens the door for companies like Amazon to think and consider how they might interact with smaller languages in the future.  And I think the technology partner for us was essential here to give us access to that enormous company.

So this is our online player, video player, click.  We've tried to grow this area because our audience on television is aging very rapidly.  And this is where we have to go, you know, we've invested in technology to get better data and better understanding of people.  But commissioned to go online first.  This means respectable girls.  It's our first online drama.  It won awards in the UK.  We're trying to shift in this direction.

So even though it's expensive curvatures do need to invest in technology.

Welsh learning?  Absolutely crucial.  If we are going to increase the amount of people speaking Welsh, then Welsh learning for adults as well as children is important for us.

And TV is not the greatest tool for learning languages.  And so we've turned this on its head, as well, trying to make as much online content as possible.  But the key thing here is working with Welsh learning providers who are teaching people.  What do they need?  What kind of video do they need for their courses?  And really collaborating very, very closely.  This video example shows the level of ability up at the top.  And so we try to target and do stuff which they can use.

One little example of how we worked with other languages and use maybe our position as a multilanguage with some resources to help those with less resource.  Answer Q, Q's adventure is our preschool brand in children 1 to 5 years old.  And we wanted to make a new learning app.  Literacy, numeracy and these kind of things.  But, you know, I've been speaking to some people in the Celtic media festival from Brittany in the Brett on language and corn well, which is a very small language in the UK, who have no resources, really, for making these kind of things.  And we thought we're investing in the technology.  Why can't we build it for them, as well?

And so we've started from the beginning to make it localizable into Brett on and Cornish.  And this is about to be launched in the coming months before Christmas.  I'm very excited, really.  We're able to share with others the technology that we build.  I think that's quite an important point for minority languages.

The sixth and final example for me is local media.  Now, this is a new area for us.  We are a broadcaster.  We usually connect from one to many.  That's traditionally the way.  But, you know, we are thinking the standard is a shift.  And in order for us to be relevant with our audience and be part of the linguistic landscape in Wales, in a real way, I think we have to engage with local media on a micro‑local level.

The opportunity here exists in that people are already creating media.  To quite a high standard.  Phones have very good microphones and cameras these days.  And some additional help with skills building can make ‑‑ have great results.  And so we're doing a pilot here with an area called angle C.  And looking to see whether this can work at that cross Wales in different areas.  And really a big part of this, as well, is about collaboration with the audience and really seeking to help create linguistic spaces beyond broadcasting.

So that's a big quick ride through some of the aspects that we've been involved in.  If you have any questions, I can send some links and please get in touch.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you, RHODRI.  I see the broadcast you were able to keep within the limits.  You were 30 seconds more than scheduled.  Okay.

>>  RHODRI:  That's great.

>>  Giacomo:  That's good.  For broadcasting time is fine.  Now we'll see the skills of stay in time for the printed media because we have the next example is from the printed media world, Tomas from La Voz de Galicia.

I found very interesting because the printed media has seen always as something old from the past, et cetera.  And we have an example where starting from very far can go very far.  Please, Tomas.

>>  Tomas:  Thank you very much.  I couldn't listen to RHODRI perfectly, so let me know if you cannot listen to me, right, in case I have any problems with my connection.

So I will try to be fast.  We are an independent newspaper founded 138 years ago.  We are the fourth biggest newspaper in Spain with a half million readers every day from the printed edition and 14 million unique users every month.

We have a similar model because we are a global newspaper, a national brand.  For example, the United States election is a big topic for us.  It's not only that we are a small hyper local newspaper, but we also have 13 different hyper local editions with local correspondents.  So we try to be everything in the print industry.  Not only hyper local.  Not national newspaper but everything.

Our mission as a company is to defend our readers' interests, which is the same as our small hyper local community interest, which at the end of the day is ‑‑ Galacia is a region in Spain with 2.7 million people.  And as I will explain before, as we have two official languages, which is Spanish and Galatian languages.

And, for example, projects ago we bought another local legacy brand due to the economic crisis 10 years ago.  And we bought the brand and now we have another company in the neighborhood of Estorian region.

But languages, you have spoken a lot before.  We in both newspapers we publish in the two languages.  Spanish in the local community language which is Galatian and ‑‑ for La Voz.

I would like to say that two elements that having the limits of gal Asia beyond the administrative borders.  One is that Galatian language and the other is la Voz.  It emerged in our local level has been bilingual media.  But since its establishment in 1882 with obviously big for the years of the Spanish military dictatorship when the language was banned, was prohibited.  We couldn't use it.

The language is spoken by 3.2 million people.  We are two fifths of a million people in gal Asia as I told you 1 million more of Galatian people living abroad especially in countries like Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico and Switzerland and Germany.

The main reason for us using both languages in the same newspaper is that our two languages coexist without any problem.  I mean, we try to be like middle of our community.  This is how it works.  This is how we do our job every day.  Write an article in Spanish or in Galatian.  Or even we can write an article in Spanish and people for someone speaking in gal Asia.

So, with this single ‑‑ I have to explain what are our challenges as a company and be sustainable in where we are living?

So the print news business has been in huge for past 20 years.  Since then especially during the last 10 years, we are developing a huge transition from a paper first to a digital first medium.

In parallel in the last three years we started the shift of our business model.  18 months ago we started with subscription model in our website.

We think that the only possible way to make this sustainable business especially at the local level is if real loyal readers compromise themselves by paying a subscription.  This is because we strongly believe that the future size of local news organizations will be set by the volume of subscribers that we are able to reach and the price they are willing to pay.

The other business, like print sales, we know we are in negligible form.  And ‑‑ hopefully it last.  There is no possibility of growing after.  And if we talk about advertising local brands will not be able to compete with huge global players like goggle, Facebook or ‑‑

They are much more effective.  And we at the end of the day we have the weaker side of the value chain.

And, okay, last but not least I have some good news and some bad news.  Good news is ‑‑ has celebrated everything.  They also the opportunity for us as a local news organisation to demonstrate that we are unique, useful and even essential part of our communities.  Many ‑‑ first event in the Reese et history that has global, national, especially hyper local interest.  And this is the reason why we are doing extremely well with not only with audience which was expected but also with subscription model which is a very recent model.  It is not a material business; right?

Bad news.  This is expensive.  The editors may think that in the near future they will not have to spend in print materials anymore, which probably will be right.  But the technologies we need for an intelligent reader revenue operation are expensive.  And could become impossible for some small local news organizations to stay in the game.  This would be a big barrier for local news.

And as someone else mentioned before, some new technologies like Google Assistant or Amazon Alexa, et cetera, are not considered in our small languages, at least in the following years.  So the way news will be consumed in the near future, maybe there is a risk that we are not going to be there because the technologies will not allow us to be there.

So this was everything I had to say.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you very much, Tomas.  Very interesting example where the Internet was able to overcome the distance because 1 million of your readers are at the other side of the Atlantic.  So only with the Internet you can reach them properly.

This is a message of hope.

What is not hope is that we finish our time because this was supposed to be also the space for public debate.  Unfortunately, there is not so much left.  And I would only give the floor to Sorina and Carlos for the conclusion.

I want to thank all the people that along the year have worked with us to prepare this panel and to prepare the report from WIPO, with victor with us, lane an from one, from IFLA.  One has not participated but he is always with us and many others.

I want to stress that the report has been mainly made by Sorina.  And we are very thankful for this to her.  She was the really the "man" behind.  No probably not the right word.  (laughing).

And then I want to leave the floor for Sorina that is to ask you for the commitment.

There were some questions and answers in the question and answer, if you can reply in the chat, it would be good for those that have been asked to reply.  Thank you very much.

Sorina, the floor is yours.

>>  Sorina:  Thank you, Giacomo.  And many thanks to everyone for the very interesting insights, although we don't have time for discussions.  We do encourage everyone to take a look at the report, the recommendation section in particular and do send us your further recommendation to help us finalize the report since we don't have time to go into this now.

Just a quick note.  The IGF Secretariat has recently launched a call for voluntary commitments.  You might have seen it on the website and through emails.  It's basically inviting everyone, panelists but also participants in IGF sessions to make pledges for voluntary actions to forward the goals of the IGF in general but also in relation to the issues that are discussed in the session.

So if we, I don't know if we have five more minutes, maybe we have a quick round through among all the panelists for a very, very short remarks on things you think you could do or your organizations could do to advance issues that we've been discussing about basically promoting local content, local languages.  And that's it.  Many thanks.

>>  Carlos:  Sorina, can I start with a very quick question?  Carlos here.  I saw the presentation by UNESCO and Eddie Avila, as well.  And the concern about how to represent the local languages in written form and disseminate the capacity to learn and speak and understand these languages.

The problem is that many of these languages, particularly in the south ‑‑ are spoken languages.  So what is the approach in these cases?  That is my question to UNESCO and to Eddie Avila, as well.

>>  Thank you for the question.  Indeed many languages are oral languages, especially working with indigenous languages.  And we users we observe with many of them we don't have even a written system and we are not present obviously in a written format and where for they are often not present on Internet.

Having said that one, of course it is a question of as well technological solutions.  Many language users would communicate using video settings.  So that could be as well a way to move forward to provide more opportunities for ‑‑ and look at solutions which would take into account functionalities which do not require written format.  And it could be used using voice functionality, helping those languages users who don't have ‑‑ who have only oral systems in place.

At the same time, what we suggest, and I think what our colleague Eddie already said very clearly was technological solutions, maybe it's not for everyone in terms of specifically what it relates expecting big changes, rapid changes.  But obviously what we encourage to do in communities like that to use technologies for language documentation, for production of content which would be not only local content as well scientific content about those languages and in those languages where community members could work together in collaboration with research community, preserving the traditional knowledge practices, cultural expressions and many other let's say cultural expressions which contribute to the safeguarding of languages in our communities.  And that could be kept in terms of archives and museums and digital formats sharing around the world.  And that would help obviously future generations.  Language shift can happen any time.  And that's what we need to encourage the older generation to continue using the language and sharing the younger generation.  And obviously if there are available tools, content and digital formats that could contribute to this process.

But obviously languages and the users have very different social, economic, political situations.  Maybe not everything could be let's say magic copy paste solution implemented in one or another community.  But at the same time, we strongly encourage use of technological solutions for language documentation preservation safeguarding and of course support of language users.

Thank you.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you.  Thank you.

>>  Eddie:  I don't have much to add to that.  There's different ways:  Audio, visual.  People are using audio messaging function on messaging apps.  So I think there's other formats for these audio.

>>  CARLOS:  Okay.  I think we are done, Giacomo and Sorina.

>>  Sorina:  We're four minutes past the end time.  If the host allows us maybe we could have a quick round among all panelists for some final remarks.  So please don't kill the meeting for us.  Give us a few more minutes.

Carlos, if you can just repeat the names again so people know when they're supposed to speak.  Thank you.

>>  Carlos:  Sorry.  I missed that, Sorina, please.

>>  Sorina:  Just having one final round of final comments, recommendations from all of our speakers and then we will end up.

>>  Carlos:  Of course, please.  It's open to.  Well, in regard already spoke?  So then maybe Mr. Wendland?

>>  Mr. Wendland:  Thank you, Carlos.  Time is short.  I will say one thing.  Local content is wonderful but it shouldn't be copied by third parties.  And that's where intellectual property rights come in.  And IP rights are both a sword and a shield.  But in order to effectively use the system either as a sword or a shield, one has to know how the system works.

And so we stand ready to provide IP training and information through our various tools to indigenous groups and anybody else who would like to know more.  Thank you again.

>>  Carlos:  Thank you.  Anyone else?

>>  Can I come in?

>>  Carlos:  Yes.

>>  RHODRI:  I think as a broadcaster, I think one of the key points I want to sort of make maybe is that we do still ‑‑ we do have power in the realm.  We have the ability to make content and work on technology.  So I think there's responsibility on us increasingly to be able to make that accessible to more people.  Not only our communities and sword of democratize that kind of media power but also in the way that we are working with the languages.  And less resourced languages.  Especially as minority language broadcaster, I truly believe that we have responsibility in that way in that these kinds of events, the networking, are crucial in order to be able to unlock that.  So, yeah.

>>  Stephen:  I'll jump in quickly to here.  To agree with Rhodri with democratization, in the report this needs to be seen as a public good and supported.  I would encourage people to make use of that network of 430,000 libraries we're talking about promoting local creativity, local culture.  These are your cultural centers.  So I encourage you to connect to make use of them, to work with them and draw on their skills, draw on their resources in order to promote the goals of this session.

>>  Giacomo:  I have a question that huge to me for Tomas and Rhodri, are you planning to cooperate?  You have experience of cooperation with Wikipedia?  Because at the end of the day, you are both pushing this same objectives.  So the fact that you come from different backgrounds doesn't have to be a barrier for cooperating.

>>  Rhodri:  Yes.  We already have a project that we started with Wikimedia in the UK.  There's a Wikipedia in the national library of Wales as well as a Wikipedia project manager at Wales.  And they've been crucial, really.  They've been funded by governments and by Wikimedia.  In order to assist us in finding ways as a broadcaster of how we can enrich Wikipedia and the commons and how it can be a value both ways.

I think many broadcasters and rights holders don't really think about it in that way.  But I think as a public service broadcaster, you know, we have an obligation, really, to think about how the legacy of content, how it can improve the resources available for schools, et cetera.

So I think Wikipedia and Wikimedia is really a place where I hope to do much more work in the coming years.

>>  Allison:  Yeah, can I just remark on that really quickly?

>>  Giacomo:  Yes, please.

>>  Allison:  It seems apt.

I completely agree.  I think that, you know, there are, as I mentioned certain limitations to Wikipedia.  A lot of spoken languages get kind of put to the wayside in Wikipedia.  But these are things that our community's grappling with and trying to come up with solutions for.  It's not a static process.

And I think that, you know, as we evolve and focus more, you know, one of our themes going to 2030 is knowledge equity and ensuring that knowledge is equally accessible on our platforms.

I think as we move towards that goal and make more decisions with that goal in mind, we will be developing ways of using Wikipedia that may sort of expand beyond the usual.  And I really look forward to seeing what that does for local languages and local content.

>>  Giacomo:  I think that now we are really beyond our time.  So, Carlos, the word at the end is for you.

>>  Carlos:  Well, I want to thank everyone who participated.  And I hope that everyone who can help us finish the outcome document with suggestions, corrections, additions, et cetera.  Sorina is doing a wonderful work with that document.  And we cannot disappoint her.  We are here to help her.

[Laughter]

Thank you very much.

>>  Giacomo:  Thank you to all of you.  It has been a very interesting session.  We will publish also the various presentations in our page, Sorina.  Can we?  We have some proposal conclusions that we hope you will share and support with us.  Thank you very much, everybody.

>>  Sorina:  Thanks, everyone.

 

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