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IGF 2020 - Day 7 - WS152 Cultural processes in the age of the digital revolution

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the virtual Fifteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF), from 2 to 17 November 2020. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



>> DAVID WRIGHT: It is 10 past 2:00 and I think we will make a start if that is okay.  This is IGF Workshop on Cultural Processes in the Age of the Digital Revolution.  My name is David Wright and it's my pleasure and privilege to moderate this particular workshop and so I wish everybody a good afternoon, indeed good morning, or good evening from wherever you join us from.

We're going to start off on this 90‑minute workshop.  By way of introduction, the Internet is a complex process that is very closely related to social development.  Recognizing the extent of the Internet is as crucial for everyone to learn, to govern the digital revolution in everyday lives.  COVID‑19 restrictions have only amplified this turning to the home into remotely‑connected school and a workplace.

This workshop will focus on the human media practices and analyze what steps must be taken in building good digital citizenship.  We are going to hear from five distinguished Panelists followed by debate discussion and will turn to you as an audience with questions during the debate and later on during the debate and ask that you have a browser ready and if you can just in terms of preparation, open the browser and go to or alternatively, if you have a mobile device, download and install the Kahoot App.

We will pose some questions and enable some extra participation and also so we can get some sense of your reactions to the questions and form an integral part to the debate and discussions towards the end.

We also encourage you to post questions in the Q&A box that was just a moment ago explained to you.  So please do use that Q&A box to post questions that you wish to pose to the Panelists or comments that you have in terms of anything, any insights you may have, or contributions that you may wish to make during both the Panelist contribution and also the debate section.

So without any further adieu, we will make a start.  So we are going to hear from the distinguished Panelists and by way to start us off, the introductory speech is going to be from Professor Miroslaw Filiciak on human media practices in the digital age with the special focus on digital life in the shadows of the pandemic.  Professor Miroslaw Filiciak is a media researcher, the Dean of the faculty and arts and social sciences and the Director of the Institute of Humanities in Warsaw, Poland, interested in theory of media studies, archeology of media and relations 22 media technology and cultural practices.  Principal investigator on numerous research projects focused on topics such as mediated cultural participation, social circulation of media content or collecting restoring and emulating old technical media.  Co‑research includes endographic study of smartphone and its uses, and collaborates with numerous public cultural, educational and research institutions, businesses and NGOs.  Professor Miroslaw Filiciak, the floor is yours.

>> MIROSLAW FILICIAK: Thank you very much for this great introduction it's great to be here so thank you very much for this opportunity.  During my short speech, I will focus on the tension between two factors which are, from my perspective, very important for contemporary media discussions landscape.  So the first one is paradigm shift within academic perspective on Internet.  The fact that during the last ‑‑ thing we discuss Internet‑related processes become more and more critical and this approach is more and more critical, but at the same time, we have this discussion within the pandemic context, so even if we are aware of media‑centric approach, which for example researchers like Nick Calgary write about (?) dangerous different biases connected with the fact that we put media in the centre of our reflection of the social world.

Nowadays media became very, very necessary and it's our communication.  So even if most researchers start to think of Internet as a set of elastic tools open to very different practices and shaped mostly by the users, and even if we think today more in terms of media, how they were designed, what they allow us to do, not just what we can do with them, nowadays we have to admit that Internet services will be rather more or less present in many areas of our lives, and I think that this pandemic situation is another milestone in this Internet inclusion and more and more areas of our lives.

And I'd like to start with reference to some very, very basic insights of Toms and Martina, from the block, "Platform society" in which the authors describe this very unique qualities of contemporary Internet, because of course we always use the term, Internet.  But it's a bunch of very different services and those services change in times.  So I think that nowadays the discussion about Internet we are discussing that platforms mostly and the platforms on society.

And the first of those factors is the verification which is systemic capturing user's data and transforming into commodity.  So nowadays much change our companies co‑modify our communication, let's say, and our identities.  And selection W selection is part of this process is taken by interfaces and algorithms.  So I think the good starting point to show it's less about empowerment of users, more about how we are programmed by platforms, how we are used by platforms that we are products and also kind of new field that is exploited.  So it's less about empowerment and more about exploitation.  So we have a dramatic start for this discussion in terms of current situation, pandemic situation; but being optimistic myself and also I think that if we think about academic research, I think that it should not just be about critical analysis of current situation but also about maybe utopia.

So I think we can use this situation of COVID pandemic as great catalyst for discussions about Internet and also kind of reflexivity exercise which is going off our houses nowadays, very different areas of the world.  So we need to reflect how to be critical but also how to be constructive, how can we imagine better futures with media?

And I think that one of the very important factors of this discussion, from the one side we try to be critical, from the second side the situation is you know, doesn't allow us to go away from media.  However, we have to use it more and more.  We have to deconstruct.  We have to start to deconstruct of all of those masking metaphors, for example, Cloud metaphor, which is about immaterial processes which are going on somewhere in this immaterial space.

I think that that ‑‑ we think of material processes of communication creates problem for social discussion and we have to remember that even those material processes are embedded in material infrastructure.  So we have to deal with lack of language for discussion for fruitful critic of media.  And without those social discussions, there will be no real political pressure for redesigning Internet as a whole or designing some very particular services by privately and of the companies.  So we need to use this pandemic as a reflective moment to discuss for example, digital gap, because digital exclusions nowadays become again very, very visible.

An example when it comes to remote education.  But also other inequalities.  Connected, for example, with gender issues because during the lockdown we are a society that women are impacted more profound way.  And we also ‑‑ other aspects we can reflect on is the fact discussion on privacy and the fact that more of our private lives and our private spaces become public now.  I'm at my home at the moment.  So it's not a private space anymore.  I have to now work from my home.  So it's from the one perspective, it's pretty problematic but I think it shows that this discussion about what is private and what is public is not just about big tech companies collecting our data.

Maybe it's a good moment to reflect on it.  And of course, we are this very weird, maybe, moment of digitalization processes.  So we observe, in Poland we have a lot of data about retro digitalization, the fact that people are longing for manual labor, baking bread as a practice as such, to move from screens and all of those material processes.  This situation shows us longing for tactile and material importance ever face‑to‑face contact and importance of informal.

For example, important for productive processes or learning processes are all those informal meetings, those water cooler conversations.  Even if it is very hard moment for discussion about media deals and how can we create this less toxic media ecosystem and maybe it's not a bad idea to use this ecological metaphors and thinking as marshal McCluin (sp) started about media as a part of our ecologic ecosystem and how to make this media, immaterial space like material ecosystem more liveable.  Most important problems are top‑down regulations for which we need the social discussion and the political pressure.  And of course until part of the process is individual's fears, competences and making the digital gap less visible or not as broad as now.

And I think that this COVID situation gives us also great examples of new inspirations and one of those examples could be an example how Taiwan has fight the pandemic, very, very effective way and even if it's not something very easily exportable at other countries, because political situations.  In Taiwan it's very specific one.

But I think nevertheless, it can be treated as great example how participation platforms, which are very popular in Taiwan can scale what is our every day practice with media because many of us use those use media platforms to establish those small networks but most of those networks works within our small bubbles.  And I think that this Taiwan example, one of many, probably you can find, gives us hope and gives us examples that we can use media platforms for public good and for better lives of everyone, not just privileged ones or not just very, very small ‑‑ and for the moment that's all.  Thank you very much.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much for that.  Impeccable timing I would add as well.  Thank you very much.  And if I may move on to hear from the next speaker, Anna Rlywczynska will talk about the Digital Family, Safe Internet Centre U.K. charity with GFL.  And I am the Coordinator of the U.K. Safe Internet Centre and so, for me to introduce Anna is a great privilege because Anna is the codeveloper and coordinator of the Polish Safe Internet Centre and the manager of the NASK Digital Education Development.  We have very similar professional obligations and objectives.  She is a graduate of the University of Warsaw, Faculty of Journalism and Political Science with a major in Media and a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Social Sciences and Humanities.  Since 2006, Anna has been working as the overall coordinator for the Polish Safe Internet Centre.  An expert in the field of kids and youth on line content and media.  She lectured a series of conferences, the Author of articles, tools and social campaigns dedicated to the on line safety of youngest users.  In recent years, she has been involved with the works of expert groups under agencies, ECSO, European Cybersecurity Organization, as well as Safe Internet for Children launched in 2018.  Since 2003, co‑organizer of the Secure Conference Dedicated to Network Security since 2007, she has been one of the founders and organizers of the Annual International Conference Keeping Children and Young People Safe on Line, which is run every September and I should add as well having had the privilege of participating in that conference to a landmark annual event.  So please do look out for that one as well.  So, Anna, without further adieu, the floor is indeed yours.

>> ANNA RYWCZYNSKA: Thank you for that introduction.  I think will start soon.  Going from this very broad perspective, introduced at the beginning of our workshop I will go more narrow to this digital family and I'd like to start with a small thought.  In the latest research, we could see questions that probably have never or very rarely have been as before.  Such questions as how long are your kids on line because of the remote school?  How long your family is on line because of the on line education?  In which cases you have to support your child because of the remote school.  So these are things and issues I think that appears for really, really the first time globally.  And somehow suddenly forced families to use Internet in a completely different way and together.

The title of my presentation, the digital family, goes from my study and research that I did in 2018 and it was the research on families and about the data context and the Internet‑related practices that they have at home.  And using this term, digital family, I meant the family that is somehow immersed in this digitalized reality and depending on the capitals possessed on developed, manage this Internet at home in a way possible for them.  And manage and create the Internet‑related practices.

And during this research as a result of this research, it was possible to see to isolate some patterns of interactions with technology, within families N short, to mothers.  One mother positive and the other dysfunctional and it was possible to try to describe those models, while the positive would be a model characterized as the one with compliance in approach to the Internet at home.  Together with the sense that network works for us, that we use it effectively to meet our needs and to dysfunctional would be the model where there is a huge conflict in a family in a way how we manage data and the deficits in other parts of life due to the network.

So the sense the network is taking something from us and we lose something because of it.  And not to focus a little bit on the conflicts because it's really crucial.  3‑10 houses have rules on the address to kids.  And it's very, very important.  We cannot teach kids by saying them what to do.  We have to show them what to do.  We have to give examples.  Over 40% of respondents say that Internet does not help them, does not support the relations at home that they have, and 30% believe that family members have been on line for too long and kids sleep not enough and that have too little time for other activities.  So these are those flicks and problems we find in those dysfunctional models.

What is really interesting is that the multitude of devices is not so much important.  We could see families and houses absolutely filled up to ceiling with the technology.  With devices.  And in this house, the Internet wasn't the dominant feature at all.  And we could see houses with very little devices but absolutely overloaded and by technology and spending more and more and most of the time on line.

So coming back with what I said at the very beginning, what was mostly interesting, what is most interesting is that now I think parents will be more involved in what kids do on line because before, in interviews and in interactions with parents we could hear okay, my kid is very on line, spends lots of time on line i a time killer but now I think after those weeks at home they might say, my child is on line for hours because they talk to friends, because they play on line games, because they watch pranks on YouTube.  So because of the time of the pandemic, I think it made us more observe kids, what they are really doing at home.  So this is really we talk about some advantages of the pandemic.  I would say that we have to be more focused on what really kids do on line and before it was more like they spare time and we treated it like a time killer and only like an entertainment.  And now we have to be more focused on the media and focus on what they really make it possible for us.  So social interactions, opportunities to have contact with culture, to search for information.  So this is what I think would be really changed.

But on the other hand, many, many problems intensified.  Lack of parental knowledge, better relationship between household members, economy problems, strategies.  These are all problems we could see that when you increase in those months and if we now talk about the galloping digital revolution, we have to remember that not all of people can keep up to this digital revolution.  And I think this time revolution to us is very, very different.

What is really needs to be done is on the level of the public policies, is to secure accessibility together with the holistic digital educational digital citizenship education and it really shows us very deep, deep problems that we still have worldwide.  Thank you.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Again, impeccable timing.  Thank you very much.  Next to speak is Janice Richardson looking at Digital Practices in the Time of COVID‑19.  Now before, by way of introduction, I have known Janice for over 10 years.  I've had the pleasure of working on a number of significant projects, which we have participated in together.  In deed, Janice's energy and passion knows no boundaries.  If any of you are watching that will know Janice will note when it comes to protecting children on line.  By way of formal introduction, Janice is a project innovator and educational expert and author.  Founder of the Safe Internet Day event which is marked in some 140 or 150 countries across the world.  She coordinated the European Commission in Safe Network from 2004‑2014, of which both Anna and I are coordinators, and founded the EC‑funded Enable Initiative tackling bullying through social and emotional skill development for 2014‑2016.  She runs an EU‑wide Youth Council, advisor to several European International organizations, six on Faceblook, and worked with governments in Middle East and North Africa region as well as other parts of Africa.  Coauthored a dozen books and 21st Century literacy, six of which are published by the Council of Europe.  That is quite a bio, Janice, the floor is yours.

>> JANICE RICHARDSON: Thank you.  And good afternoon everyone.  I will now share my screen because I do want to talk about the COVID experience.  First of all, let me tell you, yes, this has been a huge paradigm shift in society.  I don't think we have known such a shift over the last 30‑40 years.  Suddenly children had to be educated at home and although we are trying to push teachers to go on line with technology as a way to empower children in the classroom, now they were forced to.

I think the family is important.  When we are talking about society and digital citizenship competences, we have to talk about the family because that's where the values and the attitudes are developed in a child and on those can they build their competences.  Since last year we have been working on a survey for the Council of Europe, digital citizenship education survey for families.  We were about to launch in April when suddenly COVID struck.

We therefore launched in May on the 15th of May but we added some questions about how families were tackling the COVID situation.  And I think they are very ‑‑ the very interesting responses we got from more than 21,000 parents in 47 countries across the European continent.  First of all, we are not surprised.  The biggest challenge that parents had was organizing their work organization with what their children were minute to be doing and essentially ‑‑ meant to be doing, and balancing this screen time with physical at this point I.  Suddenly this became very important for parents.  They realized that general well‑being during the crisis not only due to the stress of the crisis but the stress of being indoors in some countries with only one hour a day outside of the House, were having a huge impact on children.

I think it actually pushed families that had poor habits into even poorer habits and families who were already thinking of these issues dug much deeper and tried to understand what is going on.

The next question was, many schools reacted to the crisis so what was your experience and your children's experience with this?  Or what's it been so far because the survey ended in June.  Now surprisingly enough, we see that in 5% of countries, children had already had some experience, prizing because 5% is not very much ‑‑ surprising ‑‑ but this experience came mainly in Greece and yet Greece is one of the countries who responded most to the fact that their Internet connectivity and devices of course, created barriers to learning so there are real discrepancies which we are investigating now.

We also heard that parents thought they were coping well but the red line here, you see that parents think that the distance learning offered by schools left a lot of room for improvement.  Parents also had the problem of not having enough experience to engage their children in distance learning well, was it the fault of the families or in fact many, many schools don't understand what distance learning should be and how it can be a means of empowerment.

We also left an open question and here comes the most interesting responses.  Children with special needs throughout the whole COVID period, just simply didn't see their learning supporter, didn't have any extra help and parents were really through to their own devices more than they had ever been.

Many parents consider that teachers don't have the right Pedagogical strategies and when I look what the is going on in teacher training college, I'm not the least bit surprised.  Children's well‑being was really issue as well as the poorly organized remote classes.  Children learned more between the age of zero and 5 years old than any other period in their lives.  Once again, we see that children who love learning flew with this opportunity by being able to organize their own time, their own resources.  On the other hand, Germany, Finland, Russia, also did surveys where would children going to learn?

In Germany 80% were going to YouTube to learn.  So I think this shows a lot of gabs in our society.  I think that it shows a lot of issues that we really need to start digging deeply into.  I hope this has given you some food for thought and I thank the Council of Europe for having promoted this research, supporting it, by actually interviewing one‑on‑one parents that have more information.  Thank you.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Many thanks, Janice.  Again, great timing.  This is going to make moderation of this Panel fairly easy.  Next to speak is Dr. Anna Kalinowska.  How You Self Govern in a Hyperconnected World.  Anna is a cultural studies expert, a graduate of bachelor, masters and Ph.D. of the University of SWPS, in the process of defending ‑‑ temporarily due to COVID‑19, her thesis is Media Practice As the Technology of Self.  She has 10 years of research experience in the cultural politics and digital culture fields also in developing the scientific and commercial research in these areas.

Her specialization dimensions are the network sociology, user identity and the adaptation of the technologies of self concept into the digital age.  Anna, the floor is yours.

>> ANNA KALINOWSKA: Okay.  I shared my presentation with you.  It's okay?  David?

>> DAVID WRIGHT: It is indeed, yes, thank you very much.

>> ANNA KALINOWSKA: So I would like to tell you about some theoretical themes with research implementations.  So I would like to present this as identity adjustment tools in a disconnected reality.

What I'm about to present is based of my Ph.D. thesis and research.  The concept itself was introduced by Michelle FOUCAULT in the early 80s.  Technologies of the self permit individuals to effect by their own means or with the help of others a certain number of operations on their own bodies and souls.  And what is the most important?  Technologies of the self transform the self in order to attain a certain state of happiness, purity, wisdom, perfection or immortality.

Technologies of the self established a framework for tools and material with ratification for physical spaces.  In my speech, I will show you that the original concept however acquires an update due to presence of digitalization of reality and the common trend of social networking.

Nowadays digital tools are modern accusations of co‑network concept.  This could be smartphones or Mobile Apps where technologic, social media and like dynamics of creation space, network self.  All of them are constantly correct in our personal data.  The identification process as mentioned earlier, which all of us produce in our routine in individual context.

How we perceive physical space through our data or could reach other people's senses as well as emotions.  This could lead to many polarizations such as perception of one's appearance based on Instagram or Google street view.  How for example development on the road.

They also have another life consisting of manual outer cultural and complexity, for example diaries, diets or sports.  As the results of my research showed that the digital network Clouds were only the third most popular choice as method of recording information.

What's more, high discord without manifestations are related to physical space activities like individual sport plannings or active hobby doings.  On the other hand, one of the important factors is believed that the individuals desire to leave footprint after self.  It is a kind of legacy the age of social networks that can be entirely created.  So it could be explained that the users have a wheel of presence, several social media identities.

Now last but not least, we can also identify as with our devices.  One of my data responder makes excellent example of it.  She said, for me a smartphone is like mini‑me.  And for example, when my phone is discharged, it goes by me of course.  The phone cannot be charged by itself.  It is a miniversion of what is going on with me in this time.

And my first recommendation, especially in this time of pandemic and network compassion could be to keep our digital self in discipline when our houses became a stage of every day dimensions of living like home, work, relations of self and determination.  Thank you very much.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Anna, thank you very much for that contribution, as well.  It is really important that we involve young people in these debates and if I may now just turn to Philippine for a comment about what you have heard.  16‑year‑old Philipine is enrolled in a bilingual program in Paris where she will sit the OIB exam in 2023 to complete dual degrees in French and English.  She was recently one of nine students in France to be chosen to do internship with the French Prime Minister.  She has been speaking internationally since the age of 12 when she was invited to speak at the Council of Europe conference on digital citizenship and net safety for children.  At the IGF in 2018 she was a Panelist in the session led by major social media providers along with 17 other your Europeans in the EU council for digital good, Philippine strives to make the Internet a better place.  In 2019's, 2020, the Council coauthored a digital activity book to be used in primary schools.  Philippine, that is a mighty impressive set of things you have achieved already.  If I could ask you to make some comments about the things you heard already.  The floor is yours.

>> PHILIPPINE BALMADIER: So I think that one of the hardest parts of the COVID part was that things were more on line and we had to face more of what people thought about us.  So more people, more young people were posting and talking about their lives on social medias, which also brought on a lot of social anxiety because everyone got afraid of opinions and focused on likes.  And I think that was actually one of the hardest parts for me because basically social media used to be a safe space for us, except that with the COVID period, it became more difficult, something that I used to really enjoy became actually quite detrimental to me.

I don't think like social media anymore.  And I think there is a problem with it.  And I think that with on line learning, the main problem was from what my teachers had told me, was that we ‑‑ they did not know the tools.  And that the schools didn't know the tools.  So it was very hard for the students to learn and to communicate with each other via these Apps because our teachers didn't know how to use them so we didn't have many on line classes and at the end, we weren't able to communicate and we didn't learn as much.

And I also think that like Professor Miroslaw Filiciak said, that we weren't taught constructive and critical thinking, which I think was one of the main problems for the pandemic is because we weren't able to use those tools to function correctly.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Philippine, thank you very much.  Yes, so some really important reflections which we may well come back to.

So thanks to all the Panelists for their insights and indeed their contributions.  We will now turn to the debate and indeed, I have some questions to each of the Panelists and if I can turn to them in turn, I have two questions each.  First turning to Professor Miroslaw Filiciak.  I will others as well.  We will be asking questions using Kahoot after some of these questions which I'll introduce.  Professor Miroslaw Filiciak will be able to answer how the pandemic influenced our on line presence, social interaction and our functioning in the real world?

>> MIROSLAW FILICIAK: Okay, so I think it's a great question.  I tried answer briefly.  I think of course there is always this answer is too early to say.  But to be honest, I think that I know where many projects, many ongoing projects and we already have some data and I think it's not something we should wait for some big project which we address our problems because I firmly believe that every knowledge is situated, situated in many context.  So I think that we have many quality and quantitative data.  So I don't think we should wait for anything, for some new data.  We are aware of how on line traffics are.  We can observe people spend much more time on line and so I think it's already have those insights.

And of course I think that the resolution of our ‑‑ of this knowledge can be improved with some time so we review data but I think that we have enough information at the moment.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: I think that is quite a rare response for someone in Academia that we have got enough research and enough data.  That is not often the response you hear.  But it's fascinating to hear I agree clamoring for lots of research and insights is where lots of people are at the moment.

In terms of if I could reach out to all attendees.  Everyone listening.  Just a reminder if you do have got a reaction or indeed response or a question for panelists, then please do put that in the Q&A which will be down to the bottom of your bar there.  So click on Q&A and make points, add contributions, insights, and like I said, questions.  So please do insert those in there.

Now, this was the point at which we were going to ask a question using Kahoot but I suspect that question has been asked.  Andrezej, can we reopen that particular question?  If we can, can you launch and share the screen?  If you could go to or if you stored the App, what it will ask you for is a game pin.  And what can you see there is the game pin, 3269454.  So if you insert that when we start the quiz or the question ‑‑ start the quiz then the question will appear.

The first question is, on average, how many hours is it okay for a 13‑year‑old to spend on line outside of school?  So I would encourage people to go to Kahoot.I.

And that number is being inserted into the chat as well.  So there you can see the question.  On average, how many hours is it okay for a 13‑year‑old to spend on line outside of school?  So it's one or lessor two or three or 4 hours?

While that is still open, I'm going to move us on.  Okay.  We got a reaction and a response already.  So two hours is what we think.  Two hours for a 13‑year‑old is what our audience thinks.  Andrezej we will come back to question number 2 in a moment.

Next I turn to Janice, back to you.  So in terms of questions, you have been working for many years on building digital citizenship among children and young people.  Do you think that after the pandemic experience we'll be one step closer or one step further back in this process?  What do you think?

>> JANICE RICHARDSON: I honestly think that we are not really moving very far in advance or back at the moment.  As I said, families who understand citizenship and citizenship in the ding tall world seem to reinforce their knowledge whereas others just carried on their own way.  And now I understand much more why.  In the Council of Europe survey, we discover that 1‑3 families actually think about the impact that technology can have on their children.  And we also see that 1‑3 families, 36%, to be exact, actually don't talk to their children about what it means to be a respectful citizen.  And I think that citizenship was really tried during the COVID period and we saw some of our world leaders showing this behavior, becoming non citizens.

We also now understand why.  We are so used to talking about the issue, that sometimes we forget to talk about the strategies.  So I'd like to see a lot more talk about the strategies, about what we are expecting of families, what the outcomes should be, a bigger call for action and more transparency on what the anticipated outcomes should be and if we manage that with parents and society in general, maybe we can say next year that we're all moving that little step ahead.

One step forward is always clearly what we are all ‑‑ what we want to strive for and we want to aim for.  Absolutely.  Thank you very much.  If I could come back to Kahoot for question number 2.  Andrezej, again, if you could share the screen, please.  Again, it's the same pin number.

Question number 2 is, the web brings us closer or further away?  The options are, we have three ones, the same pin code, and so it puts us further away to our loved ones, supports our relationship with our loved ones or brings us closer to our extended family and friends.

What do we think?  The Internet brings us closer or further away?  It would be interesting to get dimensions Arnold age responses around this one as well.  But that's perhaps for another workshop, I'm sure.

Now we have 42, 43 people on the Panel.  I'm not going to wait until 60.  Andrezej, if we could close that so we can get a reaction.

There we go.  It brings us closer to extended friends and family.  And I'm going to invite towards the end Panelists to make an observation, Philippine, especially you.  I'm just going to tee you up for it for a little bit later in terms of observations.  So closer to friends and family.

Andrezej, thank you very much.  Next I'm going to turn to Anna for your question, or your first question.  Is it possible based on your research to identify the main factor or indeed factors that make parents prepare their children for effective and wise use of the Internet?  What do you think?

>> ANNA RYWCZYNSKA: Thank you for this question.  Before pandemic, 18% of 1‑3‑year‑old kids were in front of the television over three hours.  Moreover, 55% of 14‑16‑year‑olds was over three hours on the Internet after school.  Not at school but after school.  Almost half of patients, 45% of parents were over three hours on the Internet after work.

This is important, that's why I'm emphasizing it's after work.  So if we collect this data with the newly‑published research ‑‑ it's really very interesting report and I hope it's available also in English.  Very precise and very interesting report.  So if we connect this data with this report, that says that 47% of young people said that they significantly raised time that they are on time apart from education.  So if we imagine they were on line three hours after school and they now increased this time, but they are not speaking about how long they are studying remotely, but how long they are on line after, it means that we are totally over loaded by technology.

And for example, I also put it here because for me it was very, very interesting that 55% of teachers said that they are on before or any other activities such as sports, anything that help them to improve their well‑being.  They feel like they are constantly on line.  So looking that the data, we can be absolutely sure that we have to focus on quality of our Internet usage because now it's kind of our new normal existence.  We have to be on line.  We can't be now off line and do something with more like deeply.

So, I can share with you some factors that come from interviews parents and some Professor practice that we have.  There are some factors and situation that is support us and if I could list some of them.  For sure we will be sense of responsibility for supporting the chart and using technology, very important.  Child really needs our support.  Setting rules but as I said before, rules that I would like to call family members because then it's okay a parent cannot be on line 3 hours or 4 hours after work and expect his child not to be on line, to be doing some Legos, yes?  It doesn't work like that.

Attentiveness to needs of children that the relationship with peers.  This is also very important.  We cannot look at the Internet as okay, like I said before, thank you we have to look at this as a social environment of kids.  Without this, they would be really, really very lonely.  Talking about opportunities and threats on line.  Let's remember about the problems cyberbullying had.  It was very, very interesting what Philippine said.

That social media is somehow are also overloading us and we have problems with social media and cyberbullying is also increasing now so we have to remember that our kids when they are with friends on line that also can find some problems there.

Work on relationship at home.  I think it's a key to all problems and all needs that we have in this moment.  Keeping balance in your activities.  This also so important and Janice from your research it was also very, very interesting that people that parents start real to see more that it is so needed like support and activities and I can from my perspective, I can tell you that this we can't in the Forrest, I haven't seen so many people ever in my life.  The Forrest was full, absolutely full of people.

So yes, somehow we tried to find that those activities are really important and just not to get crazy only being at our screens.  Of course let's do sometimes Internet detox.  Maybe even once a week, one day, a few hours, just try to stay away from the network.

And at the end, I would like to emphasize that conflicts regarding Internet usage at home within families happened most frequently with the families focus on time and not on the quality.  So we really have to be now very focused on what we do on line and not so much how long because now we are just, we don't have much more options actually.  Thank you.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you, Anna.  Just to my point there, yes, I think particularly it's not can I go on line and connect on line?  I think we are on line.  And connected all the time.  And just as well so taking a break is a really important thing.  We should remind lots of people and I'd like to extend to attendees take a break but just not until the end of this workshop.  You got 30 minutes.  So 30 minutes left and then you can perhaps take a break.

Thank you very much.  So Anna Kalinowska if I could turn to you now for your first question.  This question is, does the web help someone interfere with the achievements of life goals?

>> ANNA KALINOWSKA: Thank you for this question.  I think that depends because what could help us as well as overall does.  For sure, it helps and gives us very much inspirations and help to achieve our goals, help to plan our dreams, but also the various types of tools like worksheets, network tools, applications and for example Google packet or Zoom communicator.

But on the other hand, the content, what we had from the web could interfere with our daily routine because it is impossible to check this all websites and all and I think we could create our subjective choice and verification strategy to not think down in this work environment, I think.  Thank you very much.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  One further question for each Panelist and then Philippine I'll come to you for comment as well.  If I could just return to Professor Miroslaw Filiciak if I may just to put you on the standby.  And your second question, the question we have here for you is, what do you think is the Internet a mirror or a door to a different cultural process?

>> MIROSLAW FILICIAK: I think it's definitely more mirror because I think it's maybe like 20 years ago Internet was a different reality to virtual worlds and door to the another dimension.  But I think now we can assume it is more like maybe even glass because I think ‑‑ and also connects my previous answer because I think it's now the problems we have regarding Internet are not very different problems, new kinds of problems, which is from some kind of other reality.  It's magnifying class.  We have this same problem because for example for me, digital gap is another dimension of social inequalities.  We have to fight against this.  So I think from one perspective, it's of course kind of a scary reflection because of course we as humanity.  And resolving this utilization of problems.  But at the same time, we have some data and we have some ideas how to fight against them.  So I think from this perspective, there is kind of hope that we know those problems and maybe I don't know it's okay because I think that we got great observation from participants of our Panel and I know it would be okay if I could address it now?  Because I think it somehow connects.

Citizenship is not age‑defined and we consider children ‑‑ they are us and we are them.  And it's a great comment.  But it's also about age but it's also about the Internet versus the real citizenship.  I think that those borders doesn't exist.  And of course in context of age definition and how we discuss this problems with youngsters, we have to be very aware now and not patronize and I'm grateful that Philippine is with us so we are not just bunch of elders talking about the young people but we have also this young voice.  And of course the situation we are discussing, the COVID situation is not just about Internet problems.  For example, in Poland, we have new limitations for freedom of movement for young people and it's also I think the issue of citizenship in the broader context and we have to be very, very aware of the problems because of the demographic situation.

And many European countries population gets older and political terms it will be more and more difficult for young people to make their voice be heard.  And because the majority will be older so I think it's a very, very important issue and we have to be very careful and we have to just talk here so thank you for this.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: It reminded me as well ‑‑ please any of the attendees, I encourage you to make comments.  Thank you very much for posting that in the chat.  There are specific questions, observations, comments, contributions, insights that any of you have, please do add those in.

Just in terms of the last question, is the Internet a mirror or door, it seems it may be a mirrored door with magnifying elements to it as well.  So, very good.  Janice if I could turn to you now.  Is profiling replacing pluralism on line?  Are children growing up on the limited media diet?  What do you think?

>> JANICE RICHARDSON: Very interesting question.  I do think that profiling is replacing pluralism.  Children are getting far too much Internet, far too soon.  We are shaping the way they speak.  We are shaking what they are thinking by the very fact that they are watching the same cartoons and then we see this repeated with the logos on their clothing and this is creating greater social in equalities.  The rich are getting richer and getting fewer and the poor are getting poorer.  And social mobility, it seems to me, is reducing through Internet.  I notice especially with the elections, when families seem to go in the same direction nowadays, one starts reading a certain type of Internet and another one uses the same computer and therefore gets the same news.

And I find it very concerting.  If I think back, it used to be really great to rebel against what your parents thought.  They would be social for example.  New ideas and you would bring them into the family and this was the physical meal time discussion.  It seems that this is wanning because people are getting the same information and the more we look at this information that comes up on our screen, the more of it we get.  But I would also like to respond to, is citizenship age defined?  Well, it is in a way.  Empathy, for example, when a child is born, he looks into the parent's eyes as he is getting fed and something called mirror neurons, if you're familiar with the work of Nicholas par, for example, are triggered and the child learns to express a certain number of things by feeling what the parent is feeling and yet now, a das, I see mothers feeding their child with their mobile phone in their hand looking at the mobile phone.

So if you don't, and in many experiments on this, if a child doesn't develop empathy, if he doesn't develop cooperation and respect in eldest childhood, it is far, far ‑‑ earliest ‑‑ more difficult afterwards.  There are lots of experiments on empathy but no one has really had any great success in pushing this to the fore.  Now how can we be a citizen if we don't have empathy and if we don't think of the rights of others around us?  So I think it's progressive.  If you take a look at the Council of Europe website, you will see there are 20 competences divided into values, attitudes, skills and knowledge and understanding and there is a central circle which begins when the child is born and then a second circle when the child is 10 or 11, 12 and then finally more complicated elements like being able to face ambiguity and cultural openness.

So that is my thought on that question.  Sorry, I was a bit long on that one.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: That is a reminder about younger children.  It's a really important one.  And it is a beautiful segue as well into questioning in 3.  So Andrezej, if I could prompt or if you could share the screen and if everybody could reach for their browser and back to the Kahoot quiz.  We have question Number 3.  Where do children build their values and attitudes that give them in on line activities?  Where do we goat?

Home, at school, through friends and peers and through media.  This is not exclusive.  Perhaps it's where they most will build their values and attitudes.  It's a beautiful segue in terms of those responses that you made.  Perhaps this is changing as well the influence.  But that is another workshop and another time to respond to that someone says at home and at school.  You can't do blue and red it's one or the other, I'm afraid.  So it's the primary way you think children will build their values.  So please do chime in.

We have nine responses and 38 people.  There is quite a few more to be had.  But because of time, Andrezej, thank you very much.  We'll see how we respond.  So nobody at school or through media but mostly through friends and peers and also at home.  How children acquire values sorry, just making a note so it reminds me for later on.  Andrezej, thank you very much very much.  If we could just move on now.  Now I'm turning to Anna for your question.

So the web, there is a question for you, your final question.  The web brings us closer or further away?

What do we think?

>> ANNA RYWCZYNSKA: At the end I will come to the poll we had a few moments ago.  I would like to start with a question I heard recently, how we would manage today if there was no Internet.  And I think that there is no answer to this question because Internet is so deeply entered our everyday life that if it didn't exist, the world would look completely different.  So you wouldn't be used to the opportunities that Internet brought us.  And like first responding, I would say, yes, the Internet brought us closer and it's kind of objective truth, yes.  It brought us closer.

But the only question is, what emotion comes with this?  What emotion do we have in us?  How do we react with this Internet?  And it's very good question to the people who they feel Internet brings them closer and with whom separates them.  So we are talking a lot about this private and public space  today, and like the Professor said, but somehow I have a feeling as a humanity, this private public blurring brought us together, brought us closer.  I have this impression when we had some practice meetings before IGF and it was many people collecting from all over the world.  Not like usually from those usual office spaces that are mostly the same, like hotels or things like that, but like our offices, but from homes.

And now suddenly you could see someone in his surrounding and even to look through the window in Ghana and Finland and Australia.  And it was something like strong feeling of being somehow together in this whole problems that we have right now.  Sometimes occasionally you could even glance at waving cat's tail somewhere, or when I'm speaking all the time, my hampster is running now because I forgot to take him off.  The lives really enters our professional life.  But it is very, very interesting on how people feel about Internet between their closest people they live with.

And I would like to go to the research done in 2018, by the institute I work for, NASK, and there was the data I gave him my first presentation.  Almost 40 people, both young people and both their carrier's, it was like same answer.  Almost 40% of people said, the Internet separates us from the closest people we live together at home.  But of course brings us closer to further friends and further family and some opportunities there.  So, actually the only people we feel separated from are the people that we live with us.  And this is extremely interesting to see happen after the pandemic when we ask the same questions and could see this in this poll, many people said that doesn't separate them from the people they live with.

And I think somehow we started to use technology to communicate with people, that you usually don't have to communicate on line.  With the grandparents, with the parents don't live with us at home.  With sisters and brother if we don't live with us at home.  And now it may be changes this feeling we have in us that Internet have this possibility to bring us together also with our closest people because sometimes like now we don't have other options to be with them.

So I think it's very interesting topic and I think we would see a huge difference in this inner emotions of people after this pandemic that we are going through right now.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  Insightful around whether you're connected to people closest or if it connects people that are further away and that balance for having contrast, perhaps.

So finally, I appreciate your comments in the chat and I encourage Panelists to have a look at the questions and comments.  Maybe.

We will come back to that given time.  For the time being, you're an expert in technologies of self.  Please explain, what is this?  Did the digital revolution spawn this concept or did it exist before?

>> ANNA KALINOWSKA: I said in my presentation that it has existed from early 80s.  And it's populated by others as a individual controlled pattern.  What is it in one sentence?  The tools and the methods which could help us to achieve our goals and the ration ‑‑ the rest of our lives because we could set some goals or some patterns to do and if we go daily routine by this, by to become more perfect in this and more developed in this, for example, in diets, in doing sports, or even in education or our educational goals, it can be done.

So, the technologies of the south has for example recording our diaries in manually.  Or doing reflexative activities, thinking about what can I do to improve myself?  But in my opinion, the digitalization gives us a new and better opportunities to express, how to put control or improvement ourselves and in the other hand, this concept highlighted meanings of the technology in the face context because from the ancient Greek, the techna means crafts to ability and logos means work, order and inner sounding.

So in my point of view, the technologies is related to give the perfect order in our life.  Thank you.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  If I could turn to the final question, the final Kahoot question.  Thank you for sharing the screen, Andrezej.  We can see the final question is, do you allow digital control yourself?  So please reach for your browser or your App and answer this question.  No, I think I am free, I don't have Facebook and Instagram, et cetera, or I will control how digital tools control myself or, in most cases I don't bother which data my Apps know about me.

The pin is 3269454 on the App.  We could close now, please, Andrezej.  We'll get a sense it is, we, most people feel in control.  I guess the audience we have here is probably not representative of the population in the broadest sense given by you definition you're at the IGF but it's really interesting to see your views as ab audience.  So thank you very much for that.

Andrezej, thank you.  If you could close that, stop sharing, that would be wonderful.  So Philippine, for the final time, we have only 5 minutes.  If I could just turn to your for your comments, insights and observations about all you have heard, particularly from the responses from the Panelists.  Give us your perspective of what you have heard and correct as well some of our esteemed Panelists too.  Thank you.

>> PHILIPPINE BALMADIER: So first I'd like to answer the question.  I think we become more vulnerable passing through the door but I think this vulnerability helps us to learn about ourselves but also to learn about others.  It makes us more open and more accepting of other people's views.

And to go back to the Kahoot question, I think it supports our relationships with loved ones because since the confinement, I have had Zoom meetings with my entire family and we have done cooking classes and which we hadn't done before.  And I think it was really an amazing experience for me because it really made me feel more connected to my family even though they are at the other continents and other half of the worlds.

And I would like to say, to answer Anna, I do think that parents should set an example for their children.  I don't think that parents can say, oh, you have to be on your phone less than two hours a day.  But then after be on their phone constantly.  I mean, I can relate to this personally because I believe that ‑‑ I don't see how you can teach children, especially teenagers or young children, to be independent and to follow rules when the parents don't follow them themselves.  Ting makes it really difficult to learn.

And I think that going back to Janice said about empathy.  I find it also very difficult that many teenagers don't have empathy.  I think that from my experience, most people that bullied others were teenagers and I think that schools have not necessarily ‑‑ have done a bad job educating people in this, especially children because when you're children, you learn, and then after at some point, your view changes.  But I think that as you grow up, you need to have the basis of when you were younger, which a lot of people didn't learn because you can't expect parents to teach their children about empathy because they might not be empathetic people.  So I think it's very important for schools to educate them.  I personally haven't learned that at school but I have been very lucky to have parents that have taught me about that and to have life experience that have taught me about that.  So thank you very much.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  The one thing I would add is, you have an assured a very bright future so when you become President, Prime Minister or whatever it is, please remember us all in the decisions that you take when you start leading a country.  You're future is very bright.  Thank you very much.

Just quickly, we have only got two minutes left.  Finally, if I could just turn to the Panelists ‑‑ before I do, thank you for your questions and it sounds like the Panelists have given you a response.  Anything that makes you happy.  I'm delighted with that.  You should feel congratulated to that.

A final point I wish to ask all the Panel activities express one voluntary commitment they would undertake during the next 12 months before the next IGF, which hopefully will be in person in 12 months times, to raise awareness about the issues we talked about.  So we have only got one minute, so Professor Miroslaw Filiciak, we turn quickly to you.  What is your point?

>> MIROSLAW FILICIAK: So I think we will discuss more the tools we use in our University with the students, not just make it remote tools for our communication but we will reflect on the tools itself and impact on the process of education.  Thank you.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  And Anna?  Your voluntary commitments what will you do?

>> ANNA RYWCZYNSKA: For sure with the institute I work for, we will continue with the work to secure kids from Internet threats and to try to be more with them and help them with cyberbullying and on line problems.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Wonderful.  Thank you very much.  Janice, how about your commitment?  Janice, you're on mute, sorry.

>> JANICE RICHARDSON: Sorry.  Promote remote learning but in a much more exciting way so that children can usury moat learning as a means of learning at their own pace and teachers can really understand of the value that they can be inside of remote learning, not as replacement but as enrichment to empower.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  And finally Anna Kalinowska.

>> ANNA KALINOWSKA: I think with our scientific and non‑profit organization environmentally could think about how to reach digital zen in the age of social control.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: Thank you very much.  Philippine, have you got anything you wish to add in terms of commitment?

>> PHILIPPINE BALMADIER: Yes, so I am class representative at my school for my class and I'd like to raise awareness for mental health because I find that especially during the COVID period and confinement, that has completely degraded a lot of people.  A lot have come to me and said their grades have significantly dropped and their mental state is absolutely awful.  So, I'm going to try my best to work on that and I have already made myself able to talk to them and also talk to teachers about it so they understand, because I think that teachers play a big part in that.

>> DAVID WRIGHT: That is a wonderful place to finish.  So thank you for that and indeed thank you to all of the Panelists.  We have overrun by a couple of minutes but I wish to add my gratitude and thanks to my wonderful Panelists and it's been my pleasure to moderate.  It's clear that it's a fascinating subject and the pandemic is merely amplified the issues we just debated.  I hope you have found this helpful and stimulating.  I wish you well for the rest of the IGF.  When we close the session, you will be sent through automatically to leave any particular feedback.  It leads me to close this particular workshop and again, my thanks.  Have a great rest of the day.  Thank you very much.


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